differences uk/us
Enrico il Pentolaio
people spoke far better English than in America. In what ways can that
be true? Or would you even agree with that?
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hdb44s$6n0$1...@aioe.org>):
Oh boy! "Can of worms? Are you ready for your debut?"
--
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US
Enrico il Pentolaio
> Oh boy! "Can of worms? Are you ready for your debut?"
Io ho riportato quanto sentito di persona...
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Enrico il Pentolaio
> A professor here once said that when he was in the UK he realised how
> people spoke far better English than in America. In what ways can that
> be true? Or would you even agree with that?
Ok, forget about that question. I have two more now:
1) Should people here be able to understand me when I use term
"surname"? It takes everybody a while to realise that "surname" is
another way to say "last name". I read that it's common in the UK, but
only used in formal contexts in the US, so why is it a problem for most
people?
2) Is the term "leaflet" used at all? Back in August it took a shop
assistant a few seconds to figure out what I was talking about. Now I
know people here say "flyer", but isn't that the same thing?
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hdcf1l$ujd$1...@aioe.org>):
> Enrico il Pentolaio wrote:
>> A professor here once said that when he was in the UK he realised how
>> people spoke far better English than in America. In what ways can that
>> be true? Or would you even agree with that?
It depends on what the prof meant by "far better." I consider them pretty
much two languages, mutually intelligible for the most part, although there
are numerous differences in vocabulary and of course there are the different
accents and speech patterns.
My opinion: Many Brits speak in a way that definitely sounds more pleasing,
if you consider formality pleasing. There are surely many Brits who speak
horrendously as well. Same goes for Murrcans :) (Be careful when using that
jocular term for "American." You don't want it to sound like "merkin." Or
maybe you *do*.)
>
> Ok, forget about that question. I have two more now:
> 1) Should people here be able to understand me when I use term
> "surname"? It takes everybody a while to realise that "surname" is
> another way to say "last name". I read that it's common in the UK, but
> only used in formal contexts in the US, so why is it a problem for most
> people?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a lot of people don't instantly
recognize "surname" as "last name." I think that most people I hang around
with would know it without hesitation, but the more common term in other than
formal contexts is "last name." I can see where someone who is not too
terribly ... well ... intelligent (what we call "not the brightest bulb in
the sign") might actually think you're saying "Sir Name."
>
> 2) Is the term "leaflet" used at all? Back in August it took a shop
> assistant a few seconds to figure out what I was talking about. Now I
> know people here say "flyer", but isn't that the same thing?
If the shop where the shop assistant works is a print shop, I'd say that
assistant is probably not all that bright. (See the "sign" comment, above.)
While the term "flyer" is more common, "leaflet" is pretty obvious and should
be no problem for anyone working in a print shop.
"Leafleting" as a verb means disseminating leaflets -- or flyers, if you will
-- for the purpose of promoting something.
>
> Ciao,
> Enrico il Pentolaio.
Tony The Ice Man
> "surname"? It takes everybody a while to realise that "surname" is
> another way to say "last name". I read that it's common in the UK, but
> only used in formal contexts in the US, so why is it a problem for most
> people?
Yes, it is a common term and people should know it. I am surprised that
it is a problem for 'most' people. It may be because 'last name' has
replaced 'surname' on most forms that people fill out and recent entries
into the form-fill-out world may not have encountered ye ol' 'surname'
in their bureaucratic dealings.
> 2) Is the term "leaflet" used at all? Back in August it took a shop
> assistant a few seconds to figure out what I was talking about. Now I
> know people here say "flyer", but isn't that the same thing?
Yes, leaflet is a common term, too. It has a more general meaning than
'flyer' which is tipically used to refer to an information sheet
distributed to people to announce an event. A 'leaflet' may refer to the
same thing or it may be an addendum page or pages that accompany a
manual or other text.
I think that you may either be encountering pockets of ignorance or your
pronunciation may be unusual for the ear of some very narrow-field
listeners.
Giovanni "Darke"
> "Leafleting" as a verb means disseminating leaflets -- or flyers, if you will
> -- for the purpose of promoting something.
volantinare...fare del volantinaggio...I suppose.
--
>Giovanni
Enrico il Pentolaio
> It depends on what the prof meant by "far better." I consider them pretty
> much two languages, mutually intelligible for the most part, although there
> are numerous differences in vocabulary and of course there are the different
> accents and speech patterns.
As it was a music class and he was just talking about a tour in the UK,
I didn't ask him to further examplain his point, though it made me
curious. I don't think it was a matter of different accents or vocabularies.
> My opinion: Many Brits speak in a way that definitely sounds more pleasing,
> if you consider formality pleasing.
Oh so he might have been impressed by how the British sound more formal.
I don't know, I've never lived in the UK.
> There are surely many Brits who speak
> horrendously as well. Same goes for Murrcans :)
Sure. A coursemate of mine whose parents are from Italy once told me how
young people here are not taught how to speak properly at school, and
consequentely are not able to express themselves appropriately when the
situations requires it. I think what helped me most at school were (was?
doesn't sound right, though) oral tests. I learned (*) a lot through
them. But maybe there are other ways, and this guy, like me, just likes
to complain about things.
:-)
(*) Does anybody write "learnt" nowadays?
> (Be careful when using that
> jocular term for "American." You don't want it to sound like "merkin." Or
> maybe you *do*.)
Should I pronounce it "murr-cans"? I mean, "cans" as in "cans"?
:-)
> I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a lot of people don't instantly
> recognize "surname" as "last name." I think that most people I hang around
> with would know it without hesitation, but the more common term in other than
> formal contexts is "last name."
Hey, but these are people from campus, juniors or even seniors, not just
random highschoolers.
> I can see where someone who is not too
> terribly ... well ... intelligent (what we call "not the brightest bulb in
> the sign") might actually think you're saying "Sir Name."
Ahah, I never thought about that.
:-D
> If the shop where the shop assistant works is a print shop, I'd say that
> assistant is probably not all that bright.
No, I was asking for a flyer about a specific cell phone plan. It was my
fourth or fifth day here and I couldn't remember any other term for it.
> "Leafleting" as a verb means disseminating leaflets -- or flyers, if you will
> -- for the purpose of promoting something.
I didn't know. Thanks!
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Enrico il Pentolaio
> Yes, it is a common term and people should know it. I am surprised that
> it is a problem for 'most' people. It may be because 'last name' has
> replaced 'surname' on most forms that people fill out and recent entries
> into the form-fill-out world may not have encountered ye ol' 'surname'
> in their bureaucratic dealings.
Yeah, probably. Now I'll try using it as much as possible, just to see
people's reaction.
:-D
> Yes, leaflet is a common term, too. It has a more general meaning than
> 'flyer' which is tipically used to refer to an information sheet
> distributed to people to announce an event. A 'leaflet' may refer to the
> same thing or it may be an addendum page or pages that accompany a
> manual or other text.
I first thought it was used only in the UK, but then I double checked on
the internet and found no such thing.
> I think that you may either be encountering pockets of ignorance or your
> pronunciation may be unusual for the ear of some very narrow-field
> listeners.
What I find curious is that, when talking to my Spanish-speaking
friends, I need to sound as "non-British" as possible in order for them
to understand me, and I don't mind it because it's tiresome to speak
like that all the time, but when I'm with Americans, they understand me
better if I do the opposite.
Funny story: I met a girl last Saturday whose father is from Wales. She
was surprised I sounded British (!!!). Another girl heard me speak in my
"spanish mode" before I switched to "fake British mode", and said:"I
like your Italian British accent!"
:-DDD
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Joseph Curtin
"Enrico il Pentolaio" <enricoilpentol...@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:hdck37$5kh$1...@aioe.org...
> Tony The Ice Man wrote:
>
> > Yes, it is a common term and people should know it. I am surprised that
> > it is a problem for 'most' people. It may be because 'last name' has
> > replaced 'surname' on most forms that people fill out and recent entries
> > into the form-fill-out world may not have encountered ye ol' 'surname'
> > in their bureaucratic dealings.
>
> Yeah, probably. Now I'll try using it as much as possible, just to see
> people's reaction.
>
For many, many years, all military forms include spaces for "last name,
first name, and middle initial". I don't ever remember seeing the word
surname used on any form of any kind.
Surname is used much more commonly in genealogy.
> > Yes, leaflet is a common term, too. It has a more general meaning than
> > 'flyer' which is tipically used to refer to an information sheet
> > distributed to people to announce an event. A 'leaflet' may refer to the
> > same thing or it may be an addendum page or pages that accompany a
> > manual or other text.
>
> I first thought it was used only in the UK, but then I double checked on
> the internet and found no such thing.
>
> > I think that you may either be encountering pockets of ignorance or your
> > pronunciation may be unusual for the ear of some very narrow-field
> > listeners.
>
> What I find curious is that, when talking to my Spanish-speaking
> friends, I need to sound as "non-British" as possible in order for them
> to understand me, and I don't mind it because it's tiresome to speak
> like that all the time, but when I'm with Americans, they understand me
> better if I do the opposite.
>
> Funny story: I met a girl last Saturday whose father is from Wales. She
> was surprised I sounded British (!!!). Another girl heard me speak in my
> "spanish mode" before I switched to "fake British mode", and said:"I
> like your Italian British accent!"
> :-DDD
>
I don't think that for a foreigner speaking English with different accents
is a good idea. I would never attempt to speak English with anything but my
natural accent. If you continually try to switch accents, you will be master
of none of them.
You have to adopt some kind of an accent as your own. I know many people
from the British Isles, and none of them has switched from their native
Irish, Scottish, or "English" accents to an American accent, no matter how
long they have lived here.
Joe from Massachusetts
Enrico il Pentolaio
> For many, many years, all military forms include spaces for "last name,
> first name, and middle initial". I don't ever remember seeing the word
> surname used on any form of any kind.
> Surname is used much more commonly in genealogy.
Ok. Just to make it clear, I use "surname" only because that's what
we're taught at school.
> I don't think that for a foreigner speaking English with different accents
> is a good idea. I would never attempt to speak English with anything but my
> natural accent. If you continually try to switch accents, you will be master
> of none of them.
I get your point.It's not really two different accents, it's just that
when I'm either tired or I don't think it's worth it, I do a "lighter"
version of my fairly British accent. I know I shouldn't, so for this
week I'll try not to let my Italianness come out. :-)
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Tony The Ice Man
> friends, I need to sound as "non-British" as possible in order for them
> to understand me, and I don't mind it because it's tiresome to speak
> like that all the time, but when I'm with Americans, they understand me
> better if I do the opposite.
Perhaps your Spanish-speaking friends are unfamiliar with British
pronunciation and more comfortable with an Italian lilt. I find that I
assimilate a light coloring of the accent being spoken to me as an
unconscious way of identifying with the speaker. This happens with me in
English and Italian. Sometimes I have to be careful to make sure that I
don't take that tendency too far and seem to be imitating or mocking the
accents spoken around me.
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hdcj4r$4bl$1...@aioe.org>):
> Sure. A coursemate of mine whose parents are from Italy once told me how
> young people here are not taught how to speak properly at school, and
> consequentely are not able to express themselves appropriately when the
> situations requires it. I think what helped me most at school were (was?
> doesn't sound right, though) oral tests. I learned (*) a lot through
> them. But maybe there are other ways, and this guy, like me, just likes
> to complain about things.
>> -)
>
>
> (*) Does anybody write "learnt" nowadays?
"...what helped me...were oral tests." is right.
"Learnt" isn't commonly used in the US but you'll hear it from time to time.
>> (Be careful when using that
>> jocular term for "American." You don't want it to sound like "merkin." Or
>> maybe you *do*.)
>
> Should I pronounce it "murr-cans"? I mean, "cans" as in "cans"?
>> -)
You can pronounce it however you want: it's a made-up word, or maybe a
representation of southern-speak. The last syllable can be -cnz or -canz, (as
in "cans") depending on how much of a laugh you want to provoke.
>> If the shop where the shop assistant works is a print shop, I'd say that
>> assistant is probably not all that bright.
>
> No, I was asking for a flyer about a specific cell phone plan. It was my
> fourth or fifth day here and I couldn't remember any other term for it.
I'm surprised, then, that the assistant didn't instantly recognize the word.
It could be a regional thing.
But to be fair, when I hear "leaflet" I think of Ben Franklin and the Civil
War era... And now you've got me wondering why "flyer"? They don't usually
fly unless they're dropped from some height... Back to the etymological
dictionary...
Kiuhnm
> War era... And now you've got me wondering why "flyer"? They don't usually
> fly unless they're dropped from some height... Back to the etymological
> dictionary...
Volano volano... basta un po' di vento. In italiano li chiamiamo
"volantini". Invece i "volanti" (steering wheels) non volano.
Kiuhnm
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <4afad01c$0$1113$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it>):
lol
Joseph Curtin
"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C720345C...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:41:30 -0500, Enrico il Pentolaio wrote
> (in article <hdcj4r$4bl$1...@aioe.org>):
>
> > Sure. A coursemate of mine whose parents are from Italy once told me how
> > young people here are not taught how to speak properly at school, and
> > consequentely are not able to express themselves appropriately when the
> > situations requires it. I think what helped me most at school were (was?
> > doesn't sound right, though) oral tests. I learned (*) a lot through
> > them. But maybe there are other ways, and this guy, like me, just likes
> > to complain about things.
> >> -)
> >
> >
> > (*) Does anybody write "learnt" nowadays?
>
> "...what helped me...were oral tests." is right.
>
> "Learnt" isn't commonly used in the US but you'll hear it from time to
time.
>
In NYC you often hear a variation - "loint".
Joe from Massachusetts
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <uTCKm.15357$ET3....@newsfe17.iad>):
> n NYC you often hear a variation - "loint".
So I've hoid.
army1987
> A professor here once said that when he was in the UK he realised how
> people spoke far better English than in America. In what ways can that
> be true? Or would you even agree with that?
Dipende da che cavolo intendesse esattamente per "better".
--
Armando di Matteo <a r m y ONE NINE EIGHT SEVEN AT e m a i l DOT i t>
Vuolsi così colà dove si puote / ciò che si vuole; più non dimandare.
[ T H I S S P A C E I S F O R R E N T ]
army1987
Le similitudini tra italiano e inglese non finiscono di sorprendermi...
Qualche giorno fa nel film "Whatever Works" ho sentito "If my grandmother
had wheels, she would be a trolley car"; ero convinto che fosse un
proverbio italiano DOC, e invece...
Enrico C
<enricoilpentolaioTOGLIQUE...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A professor here once said that when he was in the UK he realised how
> people spoke far better English than in America. In what ways can that
> be true?
You tell us! :P
> Or would you even agree with that?
For starters, define "better English".
Janis
nel messaggio news:hdb44s$6n0$1...@aioe.org...
>A professor here once said that when he was in the UK he realised how
>people spoke far better English than in America. In what ways can that be
>true? Or would you even agree with that?
Lo so che non si fa! Riesumare i vecchi thread, dico.
Per� questo era carino e me lo sono persa!
Quindi ora rispondo a qualche cosa con le mie strane teorie.
L'idea che mi sono fatta io � che semplicemente non poteva pi� utilizzare lo
slang e la pronuncia shatta che ti viene da fare quando sei con gli
'amichetti del quartiere'. Se tu per esempio fossi andato a studiare
all'Universit� in un posto molto lontano da casa, all'ennesima perculata
avresti cominciato a parlare Italiano e non quella specie di strano idioma
che parlano tutti quando non gli sgrani l'occhione davanti implorante "per
favore. vuoi parlare una lingua riconosciuta come tale?"
ciao, Janis
p.s. Poi per� glielo chiedi al Prof. e ci fai sapere!
Janis
news:0001HW.C7208546...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:48:17 -0500, Joseph Curtin wrote
> (in article <uTCKm.15357$ET3....@newsfe17.iad>):
>
>> n NYC you often hear a variation - "loint".
>
> So I've hoid.
ROFL! Non possono capirle queste, dai!
Il mio ex newyorkese giurava di non parlare cos�, infatti lo faceva solo
davanti a me, giusto per rimarcare il confine tra NY e CA.
ciao, Janis
Janis
nel messaggio news:hdcf1l$ujd$1...@aioe.org...
> 1) Should people here be able to understand me when I use term "surname"?
> It takes everybody a while to realise that "surname" is another way to say
> "last name". I read that it's common in the UK, but only used in formal
> contexts in the US, so why is it a problem for most people?
>
> 2) Is the term "leaflet" used at all? Back in August it took a shop
> assistant a few seconds to figure out what I was talking about. Now I know
> people here say "flyer", but isn't that the same thing?
Rispondo a queste due anche, visto che tanto ho gi� commesso il crimine.
Mi sembra strano che nessuno degli Americani abbia la mia teoria, che �
questa:
Prova ad immaginare che uno straniero, parlando con te in italiano e
utilizzando un vocabolario del tutto ordinario (scusa la rima) ad un certo
punto se ne esca con un "quando festeggiamo il tuo genetliaco? Sai, devo
ridarti quella cosa mobile che ho preso in comodato d'uso prima che la
acquisica per usucapione"
Probabilmente non esiste nessuna parola che tu non conosca in quella frase.
Semplicemente non te l'aspetti, quindi il tuo orecchio non � allenato per
captarle. Considerando che quando parla uno straniero i segnali di allarme
(=beep, che mink sta a d�?") che ti piaccia o no sono tanti, unisci le due
cose e vedrai che il risultato � quella faccia sbigottita e quei due secondi
di ritardo che possono dare l'impressione che loro non abbiano mai sentito o
non conoscano la parola.
Entrambe, a mio parere erano/sono conosciute (leaflet MOLTO pi� usato di
surname, se vuoi la mia) al tuo interlocutore, ma non se l'aspettano e
perdono quel paio di secondi per verificare che tu non stia pronunciando
male qualche altra parola pi� comune.
Mi rendo conto che ho fatto gli esempi sbagliati in it. perch� la prima �
una parola dal suono molto distinguibile, il second periodo � troppo piena
di parole e frasi inusuali nella lingua di tutti i giorni. Non so, un "mi
passi quel pomo?" invece di mela forse potrebbe andare?
ciao, Janis
Joseph Curtin
"Janis" <x...@miciolink.it> wrote in message
news:hf31mc$2ebm$1...@newsreader2.mclink.it...
In New York, if a girl named Mary got married on Christmas, Mary would marry
on a merry Christmas Day. In California, Mary would mary on a mary Christmas
Day.
Joe from Massachusetts
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hf31mc$2ebm$1...@newsreader2.mclink.it>):
> "Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:0001HW.C7208546...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:48:17 -0500, Joseph Curtin wrote
>> (in article <uTCKm.15357$ET3....@newsfe17.iad>):
>>
>>> n NYC you often hear a variation - "loint".
>>
>> So I've hoid.
>
> ROFL! Non possono capirle queste, dai!
> Il mio ex newyorkese giurava di non parlare cosￜ, infatti lo faceva solo
> davanti a me, giusto per rimarcare il confine tra NY e CA.
>
> ciao, Janis
>
>
To be honest, after 19 years in NYC I've only known one person who spoke that
way ('hoid' for 'heard'; 'loint' for 'learnt'; and even 'erl' for 'oil'). It
was a porter who worked in my building, an older man, now retired. The
phenomenon might be dying out, but it will live forever as an
over-generalization or over-characterization of a typical Brooklyn accent.
Enrico il Pentolaio
> To be honest, after 19 years in NYC I've only known one person who spoke that
> way
Yeah, speaking of NY, what the hell? Why can't I find a decent hostel to
stay at? Most hostels are either 1) dirty 2) unsafe 3) far away from
manhattan 4) ridiculously small 5) infested with mice 6) infested with
bed bugs 7) infested with cockroaches 8) in harlem
Choose any combination from above.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Enrico il Pentolaio
> L'idea che mi sono fatta io � che semplicemente non poteva pi� utilizzare lo
> slang e la pronuncia shatta che ti viene da fare quando sei con gli
> 'amichetti del quartiere'.
That's a good theory. I speak differently depending on whether the
person I'm talking to is from my region.
> Se tu per esempio fossi andato a studiare
> all'Universit� in un posto molto lontano da casa, all'ennesima perculata
> avresti cominciato a parlare Italiano e non quella specie di strano idioma
> che parlano tutti quando non gli sgrani l'occhione davanti implorante "per
> favore. vuoi parlare una lingua riconosciuta come tale?"
In Bologna I have a few of course mates from all over central and
southern Italy, who are still not aware that they're far from home. But
generally, yes, they learn to speak more standard Italian.
> p.s. Poi per� glielo chiedi al Prof. e ci fai sapere!
That was actually the professor's husband, also a jazz pianist,
replacing her for just one lecture.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Enrico il Pentolaio
> Probabilmente non esiste nessuna parola che tu non conosca in quella frase.
> Semplicemente non te l'aspetti, quindi il tuo orecchio non � allenato per
> captarle. Considerando che quando parla uno straniero i segnali di allarme
> (=beep, che mink sta a d�?") che ti piaccia o no sono tanti, unisci le due
> cose e vedrai che il risultato � quella faccia sbigottita e quei due secondi
> di ritardo che possono dare l'impressione che loro non abbiano mai sentito o
> non conoscano la parola.
That seems like a reasonable explanation.
> Entrambe, a mio parere erano/sono conosciute (leaflet MOLTO pi� usato di
> surname, se vuoi la mia) al tuo interlocutore, ma non se l'aspettano e
> perdono quel paio di secondi per verificare che tu non stia pronunciando
> male qualche altra parola pi� comune.
I've been recently avoiding my dining hall, preferring some more...
tasty places in campus and when I say I just want some water instead of
coke, sprite or whatever, 75% of the time I have to (re)pronounce
"water" in American English in order to be understood. That's annoying.
I tried using both open and closed a's, but with little or no success.
> Mi rendo conto che ho fatto gli esempi sbagliati in it. perch� la prima �
> una parola dal suono molto distinguibile, il second periodo � troppo piena
> di parole e frasi inusuali nella lingua di tutti i giorni. Non so, un "mi
> passi quel pomo?" invece di mela forse potrebbe andare?
Gotcha!
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hf4obc$q8p$1...@aioe.org>):
More info, please.
When are/were you planning to visit?
For how long?
What's your budget?
When is a door not a door?
(Ans: When it's ajar.)
Enrico il Pentolaio
> More info, please.
> When are/were you planning to visit?
19-25 December
> For how long?
6 nights.
> What's your budget?
I'd prefer to spend less than $45 per night.
> When is a door not a door?
> (Ans: When it's ajar.)
What's that? I just need a bed in a 6/8/10/12/whatever-bed room in a
reasonably clean and safe hostel. I'll (re)start searching in the weekend.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Joseph Curtin
We usually stay in the Times Square area when we go to NYC for Christmas.
A few years ago, I stayed at the Da Vinci Hotel, just off Times Square, for
$69 per night. The concierge was a young girl from Bari.
Whenever I go to NYC, I always make reservations through one of the on-line
services.
My guess is that the cheapest rate in a Midtown hotel would be about $75 per
night.
http://www.nyc.com/?secid=4
There are also hostels you might be interested in.
http://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/New-York
One advantage of staying in the larger hotels, especially in the Times
Square area, is that they are very crowded, and people are more or less
anonymous. If a person checks in and pays the single-room rate, he can
always sneak other people into the room after he has settled in without
anyone noticing. :>)
If you plan on visiting the usual NYC highlights, I would suggest buying one
of the special passes which give you a reduced rate when you buy tickets for
multiple attractions, such as the Empire State Building (a must-see),
various museums, etc. You have to be careful and use the pass within the
time limit specified.
http://www.newyorkpass.com/
Some people are averse to public transportation and insist on taking taxis,
but to truly experience New York, you have to get to know the vast subway
and bus system. Subway and bus maps are available in most hotels in the
city. Whenever I need a subway or bus map, I just go into the lobby of a
large hotel and ask for them, if they are not out on display. The concierges
don't know that you're not a guest of the hotel.
The Metropass, which is good for unlimited rides on all of the NYC buses and
subways, is recommended. You can get on a bus, and get off when you see
something interesting, and then get back on again.
�7-Day Unlimited Ride MetroCard
Cost: $27
Good for unlimited subway and local bus rides until midnight, 7 days from
day of first use. �
http://www.mta.info/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm#unlimited
Subway and bus maps are also available online.
Subway
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/submap.htm
Bus
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/manbus.pdf
All NYC public libraries have free wireless access, and there are free
wireless hotspots in most NYC parks. There is free wireless access in Times
Square.
http://www.nycwireless.net/
New York is known for its many department store Christmas window displays.
The Saks Fifth Avenue display is just across the street from Rockefeller
Center, on Fifth Avenue, but there are many other displays.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/a-guide-to-the-holiday-window-displays/
The Staten Island Ferry is free, and it is a good place to take pictures of
the NYC skyline and the Statue of Liberty.
Joe from Massachusetts
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hf7mq9$91q$1...@aioe.org>):
First things first:
A door is not a door when it's "a jar". (It's a pun: "ajar" means slightly
open) a play on words that's older than I am; hard to believe, but true. :)
I used to work at Amsterdam at 103rd St. in the building that houses what was
then the American Youth Hostel, now Hostelling International NY.
I never had a problem in that neighborhood, and it's improved even since
then.
<http://www.ny.com/cgibin/frame.cgi?url=http://www.hinewyork.org&frame=/frame/
hotels.html>
and the reservation page:
https://reservations.hinewyork.org/iqreservations/
Here are a few links and things to consider.
It's a few blocks from:
The Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Amsterdam at 110th St.
Columbia University, Broadway at 116th St.
Toms' Restaurant (from "Seinfeld"), Broadway at 112th St.
and Manhattan School of Music, Broadway at 122nd (there's no reason to go
there, but I also worked there for a few years.)
This link will put you on a Mapquest map of the location.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaqoss7
Zoom out a bit and you'll see where it is on the Island: a bit uptown, but
within easy reach of the Broadway line subway: stations at 96th and Broadway,
103rd, 110th, 116th, and all the way downtown, right into the heart of Times
Square at 42nd St. and beyond.
Get yourself a 7-day unlimited ride MetroCard for the subways or buses:
7-Day Unlimited Ride MetroCard
Cost: $27. Good for unlimited subway and local bus rides until midnight, 7
days from day of first use. It's good anytime not just until midnight: that
means it expires at midnight on the 7th day after you first use it. Since
you're here for six, it will work out fine.
In that part of town you'll probably want to stay on the west side of Central
Park, however, the Conservancy Gardens on Fifth Avenue at 105th Street (the
east side of Central Park) is a nice place to visit -- when plants are
flowering, that is -- maybe not in December unless you are interested in
brown shrubbery. :)
(I worked in that neighborhood, too; at Mt. Sinai Medical Center.)
Lots of decent places to eat on Broadway up there now, and downtown you got
the whole world awaiting you.
Let me know how this works out, if you have any questions, or whatever.
--
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US.
"English as She Is Spoke" is the common name of a 19th century book credited
to Josￜ da Fonseca and Pedro Carolino, which was intended as a
Portuguese-English conversational guide or phrase book, but is regarded as a
classic source of unintentional humour.
Enrico il Pentolaio
> First things first:
> A door is not a door when it's "a jar". (It's a pun: "ajar" means slightly
> open) a play on words that's older than I am; hard to believe, but true. :)
Ah... ok!
> I used to work at Amsterdam at 103rd St. in the building that houses what was
> then the American Youth Hostel, now Hostelling International NY.
Oh cool! The one in Chicago was fantastic, probably because part of the
Columbia College dorm.
> I never had a problem in that neighborhood, and it's improved even since
> then. [...]
Ok, after being in Chicago for an entire week, I get suspicious by a
sentence like that. What do you mean by "never had a problem"? In
Chicago, only a few blocks south of my Hostel, which was downtown, in
the Loop, I didn't feel all that safe, especially when I was alone at
night. I had no idea there would be so much poverty here. And the thing
is, those black beggars are aggressive like nothing I've ever seen in
Italy. If in my town or in Bologna, beggars of any race or nationality
would ask you politely:"Hey, please, do you have a spare dollar(euro),
sir? God bless you", making sure they look humble, here black beggars
stand in the middle of the sidewalk and shout:"Hey, give me four
dollars!". If I was not willing to give my money away to some fucking
asshole, I'd get yelled at. "Hey, what's the problem with you, white
people? are you all stupid?"
> This link will put you on a Mapquest map of the location.
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaqoss7
> Zoom out a bit and you'll see where it is on the Island: a bit uptown, but
> within easy reach of the Broadway line subway: stations at 96th and Broadway,
> 103rd, 110th, 116th, and all the way downtown, right into the heart of Times
> Square at 42nd St. and beyond.
Ok, thanks!
I'm looking at the comments on hostelworld.com:
http://www.hostelworld.com/hosteldetails.php/Hostelling-International-New-York/New-York/1850/reviews/1/
********
There was a mouse in our room and the free wifi was almost impossible to
use, but beside those things the hostel is great.
mlaura31033528, Argentina | 25-30 | 30th November 2009
************
[...] Rooms are dirty. Showers are messy.
uliakrylova5469, Russia | Female 25-30 | 28th November 2009
***********
Location was awful though and is nowhere near the sights of New York,
but around 15-20 minutes on the subway, which is a ten minute walk away.
If you are short on time, stay somewhere more central....Close
Ryan, Ireland | Male 18-24 | 19th November 2009
**********
Some other people wrote that the location was ok, though.
> Get yourself a 7-day unlimited ride MetroCard for the subways or buses:
> 7-Day Unlimited Ride MetroCard
> Cost: $27. [...]
Sounds good.
> (I worked in that neighborhood, too; at Mt. Sinai Medical Center.)
How many lives have you had, so far?
:-)
> Lots of decent places to eat on Broadway up there now, and downtown you got
> the whole world awaiting you.
Thanks!
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Enrico il Pentolaio
> My guess is that the cheapest rate in a Midtown hotel would be about $75 per
> night.
Yeah, but I'm travelling alone for this first part of the trip (I'll be
joining a group tour on Christmas day), so I'd rather stay in a hostel,
where it's easier to meet people.
> There are also hostels you might be interested in.
> http://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/New-York
Yes, that's what I spent hours on, before leaving for Thanksgiving break.
> If a person checks in and pays the single-room rate, he can
> always sneak other people into the room after he has settled in without
> anyone noticing. :>)
Yep, we did that in Chicago on Labour Day weekend.
:-)
> If you plan on visiting the usual NYC highlights, I would suggest buying one
> of the special passes which give you a reduced rate when you buy tickets for
> multiple attractions, such as the Empire State Building (a must-see),
> various museums, etc. You have to be careful and use the pass within the
> time limit specified.
> http://www.newyorkpass.com/
I will, thank you!
> Some people are averse to public transportation and insist on taking taxis,
> but to truly experience New York, you have to get to know the vast subway
> and bus system.
The other Italians here were in New York last week. One of them wasn't
really impressed by the subway and the people who use it. Whereas in
London or Milan, midde-class workers take the subway to get to work, in
NY according to him it was just poor people. He also said that, in some
stations, the subway lines that pass through them can only be taken in
one direction. Ugh!
> Subway and bus maps are available in most hotels in the
> city. Whenever I need a subway or bus map, I just go into the lobby of a
> large hotel and ask for them, if they are not out on display. The concierges
> don't know that you're not a guest of the hotel.
Ah! That's smart.
> New York is known for its many department store Christmas window displays.
> The Saks Fifth Avenue display is just across the street from Rockefeller
> Center, on Fifth Avenue, but there are many other displays.
> http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/a-guide-to-the-holiday-window-displays/
Nice!
> The Staten Island Ferry is free, and it is a good place to take pictures of
> the NYC skyline and the Statue of Liberty.
Lol, the italians here tried to go take that ferry three times and, for
a number of reasons, always failed.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
Joseph Curtin
> Joseph Curtin wrote:
>
>
> > My guess is that the cheapest rate in a Midtown hotel would be about $75
per
> > night.
>
> Yeah, but I'm travelling alone for this first part of the trip (I'll be
> joining a group tour on Christmas day), so I'd rather stay in a hostel,
> where it's easier to meet people.
>
> > There are also hostels you might be interested in.
> > http://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/New-York
>
> Yes, that's what I spent hours on, before leaving for Thanksgiving break.
>
> > If a person checks in and pays the single-room rate, he can
> > always sneak other people into the room after he has settled in without
> > anyone noticing. :>)
>
> Yep, we did that in Chicago on Labour Day weekend.
> :-)
My sister and her five children spent a lot of time skulking around hotels.
:>)
>
> > If you plan on visiting the usual NYC highlights, I would suggest buying
one
> > of the special passes which give you a reduced rate when you buy tickets
for
> > multiple attractions, such as the Empire State Building (a must-see),
> > various museums, etc. You have to be careful and use the pass within the
> > time limit specified.
> > http://www.newyorkpass.com/
>
> I will, thank you!
>
> > Some people are averse to public transportation and insist on taking
taxis,
> > but to truly experience New York, you have to get to know the vast
subway
> > and bus system.
>
> The other Italians here were in New York last week. One of them wasn't
> really impressed by the subway and the people who use it. Whereas in
> London or Milan, midde-class workers take the subway to get to work, in
> NY according to him it was just poor people. He also said that, in some
> stations, the subway lines that pass through them can only be taken in
> one direction. Ugh!
>
There are many smaller subway stations which are really two stations, even
in Midtown Manhattan. The entrances are on opposite sides of the street. I
guess they were built that way to save on real estate. If you're too dumb to
see the very visible and colorful signs that say "Downtown" or "Uptown" as
you walk down the stairs into the station, then I guess you would be in
trouble. :>)
I think that what your friend was saying is that a lot of Hispanics and
blacks ride the subways.
If the middle class people who took the subways to work stayed home, the
city would shut down.
People who drive to work are few, and if everyone took a taxi, they'd all be
late for work, because there aren't enough taxis to handle the
million-and-a-half people who pour into Manhattan to work every day from the
other boroughs of the city and from New Jersey and Connecticut - and that's
not counting the people who live in Manhattan and commute from one area of
the borough to another to work.
The city of New York, which includes all five boroughs, has over five
million subway passengers every day.
I always ride the subway in the city, or the bus, whichever is more
convenient.
Some people find the subway system complex, and the bus system as well.
I don't think there is anywhere in the city where you are farther than 200
metres from a bus or subway stop.
> > Subway and bus maps are available in most hotels in the
> > city. Whenever I need a subway or bus map, I just go into the lobby of a
> > large hotel and ask for them, if they are not out on display. The
concierges
> > don't know that you're not a guest of the hotel.
>
> Ah! That's smart.
>
> > New York is known for its many department store Christmas window
displays.
> > The Saks Fifth Avenue display is just across the street from Rockefeller
> > Center, on Fifth Avenue, but there are many other displays.
> >
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/a-guide-to-the-holiday-window-displays/
>
> Nice!
>
> > The Staten Island Ferry is free, and it is a good place to take pictures
of
> > the NYC skyline and the Statue of Liberty.
>
> Lol, the italians here tried to go take that ferry three times and, for
> a number of reasons, always failed.
>
You could combine a trip to the Staten Island Ferry with a trip to Ground
Zero. It's not that much of a walk from Ground Zero to Battery Park where
the ferry slip is, or you can just take the M6 bus down Broadway to South
Ferry
from Ground Zero.
Joe from Massachusetts
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hf94bv$7u9$1...@aioe.org>):
> Joe/Joey da New York wrote:
>
>
>> I never had a problem in that neighborhood, and it's improved even since
>> then. [...]
>
> Ok, after being in Chicago for an entire week, I get suspicious by a
> sentence like that. What do you mean by "never had a problem"?
Because I know the area; when I worked there, there were rumors of a lot of
drug trafficking on 106th and Amsterdam, but I never encountered any (and no,
I wasn't looking for it!! ;-) It never took me 10 minutes to walk across
103rd to get to Broadway and 106th for the subway. The station there is not
clean, in any sense of the word, but most of NYC subway stations are not
clean, with the exception of a few near high-rent districts. Contrary to what
the commenter said about the subway here, EVERYone takes it.
> I'm looking at the comments on hostelworld.com:
>
http://www.hostelworld.com/hosteldetails.php/Hostelling-International-New-
York
> /New-York/1850/reviews/1/
>
> ********
> There was a mouse in our room and the free wifi was almost impossible to
> use, but beside those things the hostel is great.
Mice don't eat a lot of food.
> [...] Rooms are dirty. Showers are messy.
When I worked in the building I didn't see many of the rooms, but the showers
are in the bathrooms we used... rather than saying "showers are messy" I
would say "Kids [who use the showers] are messy." They're from all over the
world. A lot of cultures filter through there.
> ***********
> Location was awful though and is nowhere near the sights of New York,
> but around 15-20 minutes on the subway, which is a ten minute walk away.
> If you are short on time, stay somewhere more central....Close
A buzzword of Real Estate agents here is "Location, location, location." The
better the location, the more you'll pay. There IS a YMCA on Vanderbilt at
47th (I think) that has rooms for $69 that are much closer to Midtown
(actually IN Midtown) and are probably cleaner. That was my first thought for
you, but when you said you wanted to pay less than that, I went to the
Hostel.
>
> Some other people wrote that the location was ok, though.
>
>> Get yourself a 7-day unlimited ride MetroCard for the subways or buses:
>> 7-Day Unlimited Ride MetroCard
>> Cost: $27. [...]
>
> Sounds good.
>
>> (I worked in that neighborhood, too; at Mt. Sinai Medical Center.)
>
> How many lives have you had, so far?
I'm a cool cat; working on my 6th. Three to go after this. If I'm lucky.
>> -)
>
>> Lots of decent places to eat on Broadway up there now, and downtown you got
>> the whole world awaiting you.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ciao,
> Enrico il Pentolaio.
Let me know if you get frustrated looking... the Vanderbilt Y is at
http://www.ymcanyc.org/index.php?id=3231
and the reservation page is at
https://reservations.synxis.com/lbe/rez.aspx?hotel=11146
Joseph Curtin
"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C73D3C9E...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 01:46:07 -0500, Enrico il Pentolaio wrote
> (in article <hf7mq9$91q$1...@aioe.org>):
>
> > Joe/Joey da New York wrote:
> >
> >> When is a door not a door?
> >> (Ans: When it's ajar.)
> >
> > What's that? I just need a bed in a 6/8/10/12/whatever-bed room in a
> > reasonably clean and safe hostel. I'll (re)start searching in the
weekend.
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Enrico il Pentolaio.
>
> First things first:
> A door is not a door when it's "a jar". (It's a pun: "ajar" means slightly
> open) a play on words that's older than I am; hard to believe, but true.
:)
>
> I used to work at Amsterdam at 103rd St. in the building that houses what
was
> then the American Youth Hostel, now Hostelling International NY.
>
> I never had a problem in that neighborhood, and it's improved even since
> then.
I agree that the area is not bad. I found this inquiry about the place from
a few years ago.
http://askville.amazon.com/SimilarQuestions.do?req=stayed-NYC-area-International-Hostel-upper-west-side-Manhattan
I often spend time around the west 80s and 90s.
Isn't there a theater around 98th or 100th St. which features some big name
performers? I can remember George Carlin performing there for one of his
last performances. Maybe I'm thinking of the Beacon - but that's somewhere
in the '80s.
Back in the 1960s, the border of the congressional district which
encompasses the "Barrio" on the Upper East Side was shifted down from 106th
St. to 96th St., because the area had become populated with Puerto Ricans
spilling out of the Barrio. Then the Puerto Rican population started a slow
decline over the years, from 750,000 to less than 50,000, so a few years ago
the border of the congressional district was shifted back from 96th St. to
106th St., because the area had become gentrified by people moving up from
Yorkville. I'm sure the same thing is happening on the West Side.
Joe, you forgot an important highlight of that area of the Upper West Side,
which I'm sure is right up Enrico's alley.
http://www.cmom.org/
Joe from Massachusetts
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <nFXRm.23415$gd1....@newsfe05.iad>):
> Isn't there a theater around 98th or 100th St. which features some big name
> performers? I can remember George Carlin performing there for one of his
> last performances. Maybe I'm thinking of the Beacon - but that's somewhere
> in the '80s.
You're probably thinking of Symphony Space, 95th & Broadway.
> Back in the 1960s, the border of the congressional district which
> encompasses the "Barrio" on the Upper East Side was shifted down from 106th
> St. to 96th St., because the area had become populated with Puerto Ricans
> spilling out of the Barrio. Then the Puerto Rican population started a slow
> decline over the years, from 750,000 to less than 50,000, so a few years ago
> the border of the congressional district was shifted back from 96th St. to
> 106th St., because the area had become gentrified by people moving up from
> Yorkville. I'm sure the same thing is happening on the West Side.
The same is happening on the West Side. When I lived at 89th and Columbus,
the parallel blocks on Amsterdam (one block to the west) were a bit dicey.
Now they're tres chichi (did I spell that right?)
> Joe, you forgot an important highlight of that area of the Upper West Side,
> which I'm sure is right up Enrico's alley.
> http://www.cmom.org/
Good point. I had forgotten that one, but he might be a little too young to
appreciate it. :-)
Joseph Curtin
"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
They had a retrospective exhibit featuring the old Erector sets, with Ferris
wheels and cranes and all kinds of neat stuff a few years back.
Joe from Massachusetts