the only thing i want is...
Brandobras
no, non � un messaggio porno, ma un dubbio grammaticale.
L'altro giorno mi sono imbattuto in questa frase:
The only thing I want is lie down ...
io avrei scritto invece:
the only thing I want is "to" lie down dato che secondo me "lie down"
in quel contesto dovrebbe essere un infinito.
qual � la versione corretta secondo voi?
Grazie mille.
--
Brandobras .����)) -:�:-
�.�� .����))
((��.�� .�� -:�:- n. 191 dei Festosi
-:�:- ((��.��
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <mn.b50d7d9cd...@tiscalinet.it>):
> Ciao,
> no, non ￜ un messaggio porno, ma un dubbio grammaticale.
> L'altro giorno mi sono imbattuto in questa frase:
>
> The only thing I want is lie down ...
>
> io avrei scritto invece:
>
> the only thing I want is "to" lie down dato che secondo me "lie down"
> in quel contesto dovrebbe essere un infinito.
>
> qual ￜ la versione corretta secondo voi?
>
> Grazie mille.
>
>
Your version is correct. "To" is missing in the first version, and it's
required.
--
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US.
"English as She Is Spoke" is the common name of a 19th century book credited
to Josￜ da Fonseca and Pedro Carolino, which was intended as a
Portuguese-English conversational guide or phrase book, but is regarded as a
classic source of unintentional humour.
Brandobras
> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:33:59 -0500, Brandobras wrote
> (in article <mn.b50d7d9cd...@tiscalinet.it>):
>
> required.
Hello Joe,
thank you very much for your help; another question: is there any
difference between the phrase: "the only thing I want is to lie down"
and "the only thing I want to do is lie down"?
i've checked the sentence in the book and I've noticed i've missed "to
do".
Thank you in advance
Regards
Kiuhnm
> Dans son message pr�c�dent, Joe/Joey da New York a �crit :
>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:33:59 -0500, Brandobras wrote
>> (in article <mn.b50d7d9cd...@tiscalinet.it>):
>>
>> Your version is correct. "To" is missing in the first version, and
>> it's required.
>
> Hello Joe,
> thank you very much for your help; another question: is there any
Sei per caso un frequentatore di ICLI?
Kiuhnm
Brandobras
> Sei per caso un frequentatore di ICLI?
ehm, scusa l'ignoranza, ma non so cosa sia ICLI...
ciao
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <mn.b53b7d9c3...@tiscalinet.it>):
> Dans son message prï¿œcï¿œdent, Joe/Joey da New York a ï¿œcrit :
>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:33:59 -0500, Brandobras wrote
>> (in article <mn.b50d7d9cd...@tiscalinet.it>):
>>
>> Your version is correct. "To" is missing in the first version, and it's
>> required.
>
> Hello Joe,
> thank you very much for your help; another question: is there any
> difference between the phrase: "the only thing I want is to lie down"
> and "the only thing I want to do is lie down"?
>
> i've checked the sentence in the book and I've noticed i've missed "to
> do".
>
> Thank you in advance
>
> Regards
>
>
There is no appreciable difference between the two.
If you say "the only thing I want to do..." you're specifically indicating an
action you want to perform, as opposed to "the only thing I want..." which
could also mean a tangible thing that you want to have.
The only thing I want to do is lie down.
The only thing I want is my warm bed.
In the case you cited, there's no real difference. It strikes me that, if the
speaker was as tired as they sounded, they would probably leave off "to do"
just to make the sentence easier to say! :-)
Brandobras
> The only thing I want to do is lie down.
Thank you very much, but then is this sentence orrect without "to"
before "lie down? I'm confused...
Janis
news:mn.bd097d9ce...@tiscalinet.it...
> Apr�s m�re r�flexion, Joe/Joey da New York a �crit :
>
>
>> The only thing I want to do is lie down.
>
> Thank you very much, but then is this sentence orrect without "to" before
> "lie down? I'm confused...
Caro Brandobras,
perche' sei confuso esattamente? Forse perch� in italiano le costruzioni
delle frasi e l'uso dei tempi e' diverso dall'inglese? Le lingue non si
imparano come traduzione di una lingua di partenza.
Le lingue sono differenti tra di loro e cercare sempre il corrispondente in
un'altra impedisce l'apprendimento a meno che uno di mestiere non faccia
quella brutta cosa che e' il traduttore (traditore).
Se invece di confonderti e guardare i libri di grammatica, tu leggessi roba
in inglese, ascoltassi la radio, guardassi film e documentari in inglese
ecc, impareresti queste semplici e comunissime costruzioni in un
battibaleno.
Insomma, meno seghe mentali e pi� pratica!
Non devi sempre capire perche' si dica in un modo, sai? Scommetti che
dell'italiano conosci non pi� del 10% delle vere ragioni per cui una frase
si dice in un modo? Eppure nel 90% dei casi non dubiti che si dica in quel
modo! Ecco, questo � quello che dovresti cercare di replicare in una lingua
straniera. Sentire, leggere come si dicono le cose e imitare...finch�
diventa naturale.
Dio che pippone prenatalizio terribile! Sowwy!
ciao, Janis
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <mn.bd097d9ce...@tiscalinet.it>):
> Aprï¿œs mï¿œre rï¿œflexion, Joe/Joey da New York a ï¿œcrit :
>
>
>> The only thing I want to do is lie down.
>
> Thank you very much, but then is this sentence orrect without "to"
> before "lie down? I'm confused...
>
> Regards
>
>
Yes, "to" is optional before "lie down."
Both are correct:
"The only thing I want to do is lie down."
"The only thing I want to do is to lie down."
Brandobras
> "Brandobras" <nig...@tiscalinet.it> ha scritto nel messaggio
> Caro Brandobras,
{...] Cut
> ciao, Janis
Ciao e grazie del consiglio.
In ogni caso il mio modo di imparare (non solo le lingue) consiste
proprio nel farmi domande e cercare risposte. � vero che la maggior
parte di noi non sa perch� un'espressione si dice in un modo specifico
in italiano per� tutti (si spera) la usiamo correttamente; per� io
preferisco essere in quel 10% che hai citato tu.
In fondo � proprio questa la differenza tra "conoscere" una lingua e
"parlare" con la lingua...
Ciao e Buon Natale
Brandobras
>
> Yes, "to" is optional before "lie down."
> Both are correct:
> "The only thing I want to do is lie down."
> "The only thing I want to do is to lie down."
Thank you very much!
now it's clear.
Merry Christmas!
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <mn.c1bf7d9c0...@tiscalinet.it>):
> Aprï¿œs mï¿œre rï¿œflexion, Joe/Joey da New York a ï¿œcrit :
>>
>> Yes, "to" is optional before "lie down."
>> Both are correct:
>> "The only thing I want to do is lie down."
>> "The only thing I want to do is to lie down."
>
> Thank you very much!
> now it's clear.
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
>
E Buon Natale
Joseph Curtin
"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C758CF74...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:27:11 -0500, Brandobras wrote
> (in article <mn.c1bf7d9c0...@tiscalinet.it>):
>
> >>
> >> Yes, "to" is optional before "lie down."
> >> Both are correct:
> >> "The only thing I want to do is lie down."
> >> "The only thing I want to do is to lie down."
> >
The "to" is mandatory before "lie down". The "to" occurs in both phrases as
shown here, but the original posting, "The only thing I want is lie down" is
absolutely incorrect.
Joe from Massachusetts
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <VBKYm.93627$We2....@newsfe09.iad>):
>
> "Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C758CF74...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:27:11 -0500, Brandobras wrote
>> (in article <mn.c1bf7d9c0...@tiscalinet.it>):
>>
>>> Aprï¿œs mï¿œre rï¿œflexion, Joe/Joey da New York a ï¿œcrit :
>>>>
>>>> Yes, "to" is optional before "lie down."
>>>> Both are correct:
>>>> "The only thing I want to do is lie down."
>>>> "The only thing I want to do is to lie down."
>>>
>
> The "to" is mandatory before "lie down". The "to" occurs in both phrases as
> shown here, but the original posting, "The only thing I want is lie down" is
> absolutely incorrect.
>
> Joe from Massachusetts
>
>
That was my response to the original post.
Joseph Curtin
"Joseph Curtin" <josc...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:VBKYm.93627$We2....@newsfe09.iad...
"All I want is to go home, lie down, watch TV, and eat popcorn."
"To" is implicit before all the verbs, but without that "to" before the
first verb in the series, the sentences are incorrect.
Joe from Massachusetts
Kiuhnm
> Kiuhnm a �crit :
>
>> Sei per caso un frequentatore di ICLI?
>
> ehm, scusa l'ignoranza, ma non so cosa sia ICLI...
E' il ng it.cultura.linguistica.italiano.
Sono cos� pochi gli italiani che ancora sanno cos'� un punto e virgola
che pensavo fossi di ICLI.
Kiuhnm
Joseph Curtin
"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:07:22 -0500, Joseph Curtin wrote
> (in article <VBKYm.93627$We2....@newsfe09.iad>):
>
> >
> > "Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:0001HW.C758CF74...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:27:11 -0500, Brandobras wrote
> >> (in article <mn.c1bf7d9c0...@tiscalinet.it>):
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, "to" is optional before "lie down."
> >>>> Both are correct:
> >>>> "The only thing I want to do is lie down."
> >>>> "The only thing I want to do is to lie down."
> >>>
> >
> > The "to" is mandatory before "lie down". The "to" occurs in both phrases
as
> > shown here, but the original posting, "The only thing I want is lie
down" is
> > absolutely incorrect.
> >
> > Joe from Massachusetts
> >
> >
>
> That was my response to the original post.
>
>
I just wanted to emphasize that including "to" as the infinitive marker here
after the verb "want" is mandatory, as it is after many verbs, but this is
not the case after certain other verbs. The "to" is not optional before "lie
down" in the examples, it is mandatory, though sometimes implicit, as in the
first example, after the verb "want".
Use of "to" as the infinitive marker after some other verbs is not
permitted.
To complicate matters, after some other verbs, the "to" as infinitive marker
is optional.
The use of "to" as the infinitive marker is a pitfall for students of
English.
�282 infinitives (4): after verbs
After many non-auxiliary verbs, we can use the infinitives of other verbs.
It's beginning to rain.
I don't want to see you again.
She seems to be crying.
I expect to have finished by tomorrow evening.
The car needs to be cleaned.
Common verbs that can be followed by infinitives (for more detailed entries
on
some of these, see Index):
afford begin fail intend prefer seem
agree care forget learn prepare start
appear choose go on like pretend swear
arrange consent happen love propose trouble
ask continue hate manage promise try
attempt dare help mean refuse want
(can't) bear decide hesitate neglect regret wish
beg expect hope offer remember
....
....
281 infinitives (3): without to
...
2 after let, make, hear etc
Certain verbs are followed by object + infinitive without to. They include
let,
make, see, hear, feel, watch and notice.
She lets her children stay up very late. (NOT She lets her children to
stay...
OR She lets her children staying ... )
I made them give me the money back.
I didn't see you come in.
We both heard him say that I was leaving.
Did you feel the earth move?
Help can also be used in this way (see 244).
Could you help me (to) unload the car?
This structure is also possible with have (see 238) and know (see 313).
Have Mrs Hansen come in, please. (especially AmE)
I've never known him (to) pay for a drink.
In passive versions of these structures (with make, see, hear, help and
know)
the infinitive with to is used.
He was made to pay back the money.
She was heard to say that she disagreed.�
(Swan, "Practical English Usage")
Joe from Massachusetts
Brandobras
>
> E' il ng it.cultura.linguistica.italiano.
>
Si, effettivamente ci bazzico :-)
non so molto di sigle, per� :-)
ciao
Buone feste!
Brandobras
[cut]
> Joe from Massachusetts
Thank you, Joe.
Your answer is really complete.
I've understood this:
in the sentence
"the only thing I want is..." the "to" is mandatory, but in the frase:
"the only thing I want to do is ..." the "to" could be used or not.
I imagine that in this last case the "to" is not optional, but could be
left out because of the presence of "to do": just to avoid to repeat
twice this preposition.
Thanks again and Merry Xmas!
Joseph Curtin
"Brandobras" <nig...@tiscalinet.it> wrote in message
news:mn.c4487d9c5...@tiscalinet.it...
> Joseph Curtin a pr�sent� l'�nonc� suivant :
>
> [cut]
>
> > Joe from Massachusetts
>
>
> Thank you, Joe.
> Your answer is really complete.
>
> I've understood this:
>
> in the sentence
> "the only thing I want is..." the "to" is mandatory, but in the frase:
> "the only thing I want to do is ..." the "to" could be used or not.
>
> I imagine that in this last case the "to" is not optional, but could be
> left out because of the presence of "to do": just to avoid to repeat
> twice this preposition.
Other implicit cases would be in a series, such as "He wants the boy to run,
jump, walk, and swim like the other children". In case of extreme emphasis,
you might insert "to" before each infinitive.
With the verb "let", the sentence would be "He lets the boy run, jump, walk,
and swim like the other children". Here the use of "to" as infinitive marker
is prohibited.
Much to our consternation, if instead of "let" we use the verb "permit"
(which, by the way, is not on Swan's list of verbs which require the
infinitive marker), which has more or less the same meaning as "let", would
require the infinitive marker. How do we know this? Well, I can only say we
just know. :>(
Unfortunately, there is no easy "rule" for situations such as this. It is a
question of usage.
The important thing to remember is that the inclusion or exclusion of "to"
as infinitive marker depends on the verb of which the infinitive is the
object.
Joe from Massachusetts
ADPUF
> Kiuhnm vient de nous annoncer :
>>
>> E' il ng it.cultura.linguistica.italiano.
>>
> Si, effettivamente ci bazzico :-)
>
> non so molto di sigle, per� :-)
Pi� precisamente sarebbe:
ICLIt l�
ICLIng qui
--
"All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men
are Socrates."
-- Woody Allen
Giovanni "Darke"
>>> Sei per caso un frequentatore di ICLI?
>> ehm, scusa l'ignoranza, ma non so cosa sia ICLI...
> E' il ng it.cultura.linguistica.italiano.
> Sono cos� pochi gli italiani che ancora sanno cos'� un punto e virgola
> che pensavo fossi di ICLI.
ne ho scoperto (indipendentemente) l'uso quasi 10 anni fa, da solo.
datosi che scrivo pieno di incisi (dovrei veramente sciacquare i panni
in arno, lo so), per me � stato un sistema per distinguere un tipo di
pause da un altro.
non potevo mettere tutte virgole. non sono joyce o bret easton ellis e
non posso sempre fare flux of consciousness.
la cosa brutta � che dopo ho scoperto anche le parentesi tonde (!!!!).
da qui escono alcuni periodi con incisi dentro incisi dentro incisi
(sembro frank herbert) con un uso delle parentesi tonde e delle virgole
che scimmiotta la gerarchi matematica delle quadre e delle graffe.
oppure passo all'eccesso opposto, ed ottengo un periodare cesariano,
fatto di periodi con solo una principale, al massimo una concessiva o
una finale.
ciao e scusate il fuoritopo. :o
--
>Giovanni
Giovanni "Darke"
>>> E' il ng it.cultura.linguistica.italiano.
>> Si, effettivamente ci bazzico :-)
>> non so molto di sigle, per� :-)
> Pi� precisamente sarebbe:
> ICLIt l�
> ICLIng qui
sar� che stasera il un filmato di travaglio mi ha nominato l'ACLI,
ma io appena letto ho subito pensato ad IT.CATTOLICI.LIBERALI.ITALIANI
:-)))))))))))))))
--
>Giovanni