Re: Consonanti doppie: singolarità della lingua italiana?
Enrico C
it.it.cultura.linguistica.italiano:
[...]
> Invece la differenza tra l'inglese parlato oggi e quello parlato un
> secolo fa
In quale varietà di inglese?
> è evidentissima (la "a" parole come "man" prima era quasi
> uguale a "e" aperta italiana, adesso è quasi come "a" italiana; la "u" di
> "cut" è anch'essa diventata un po' più aperta; "sure" e "shore" adesso si
> pronunciano uguali; la "u" di "Cuba" tende a diventare sempre più simile
> a ü, la prima parte del dittongo di "code" è passata da /o/ a /@/,
> ecc...).
Hai qualche riferimento su questa evoluzione?
xpost it.cultura.linguistica.italiano
it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article
<8f901ec0-271a-4265...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>):
> "sure" e "shore" adesso si pronunciano uguali
No way.
--
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US
FatherMcKenzie
>> "sure" e "shore" adesso si pronunciano uguali
>
> No way.
Infatti mi pareva 'na bufala
--
P�s g�r ho ait�n lamb�nei, ka� ho zet�n heur�skei, ka� t� kro�onti
anoig�setai
(Euagg�lion kat� Lo�kan 11,10)
Redfiddler
"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:0001HW.C7285145...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:01:47 -0500, Enrico C wrote
> (in article
> <8f901ec0-271a-4265...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> "sure" e "shore" adesso si pronunciano uguali
>
> No way.
no way, davvero
>
mymo
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:01:47 -0500, Enrico C wrote
> (in article
> <8f901ec0-271a-4265...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> "sure" e "shore" adesso si pronunciano uguali
>
> No way.
Per curiosit� ho controllato sull'Oxford Paravia e, in effetti, almeno per
quanto riguarda la pronuncia inglese britannica, vengono usati gli stessi
simboli IPA per entrambe le parole
Tony The Ice Man
>> No way.
> Per curiosit� ho controllato sull'Oxford Paravia e, in effetti, almeno per
> quanto riguarda la pronuncia inglese britannica, vengono usati gli stessi
> simboli IPA per entrambe le parole
It may be because of a limitation of the IPA symbol system. When I say
the words, my 'sh' is more pronounced in shore than in sure. Some people
in the New York/New Jersy Metropolitan Area, who go 'down the shuaw',
have a very particular way of pronouncing the word 'shore'. But then,
they go 'up to' other places that are south, so 'go figuh.' (go figure =
chiss� perch�)
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <JxDMm.95327$1s6....@twister2.libero.it>):
> Joe/Joey da New York wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:01:47 -0500, Enrico C wrote
>> (in article
>> <8f901ec0-271a-4265...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>> "sure" e "shore" adesso si pronunciano uguali
>>
>> No way.
>
> Per curiositￜ ho controllato sull'Oxford Paravia e, in effetti, almeno per
> quanto riguarda la pronuncia inglese britannica, vengono usati gli stessi
> simboli IPA per entrambe le parole
>
>
Do you mean the same symbol is used for the vowel sound or the initial
consonants sound?
I can't comment on the British pronunciation, but there is a clear difference
in AmE.
FatherMcKenzie
> Per curiosit� ho controllato sull'Oxford Paravia e, in effetti, almeno per
> quanto riguarda la pronuncia inglese britannica, vengono usati gli stessi
> simboli IPA per entrambe le parole
Il MW d� la pronuncia ['shor] "especially southern"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sure
Questa pronuncia, che per� non � standard, effettivamente coincide con shore
mymo
>> Per curiosit� ho controllato sull'Oxford Paravia e, in effetti,
>> almeno per quanto riguarda la pronuncia inglese britannica, vengono
>> usati gli stessi simboli IPA per entrambe le parole
>>
>>
>
> Do you mean the same symbol is used for the vowel sound or the initial
> consonants sound?
Yes... for the American pronunciation the symbols used are different though.
Sure = So:(r) BE | Su@r AE
Shore = So:(r) for both BE and AE
Oliver Webber
wrote:
...
>
> Do you mean the same symbol is used for the vowel sound or the initial
> consonants sound?
>
> I can't comment on the British pronunciation, but there is a clear difference
> in AmE.
>
> --
> Joe/Joey da New York
>
> English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US
Per quanto mi riguarda, parlavo dell'inglese britannico, ma
evidentemente le cose stanno diverse negli stati uniti/as far as I'm
concerned, I was talking about British English, but evidently things
are different in the US!
Oliver
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <hdv8bp$qmo$2...@tdi.cu.mi.it>):
> mymo ha scritto:
>> Per curiositￜ ho controllato sull'Oxford Paravia e, in effetti, almeno per
>> quanto riguarda la pronuncia inglese britannica, vengono usati gli stessi
>> simboli IPA per entrambe le parole
>
> Il MW dￜ la pronuncia ['shor] "especially southern"
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sure
> Questa pronuncia, che perￜ non ￜ standard, effettivamente coincide con shore
>
If I were editing Merriam Webster I would leave off the word "especially" in
the above definition. That pronunciation is Gomer Pyle/Forrest Gump Southern,
and it's fine if you want to sound like one of them, but...
F'ya wona sahnd lahk they-ut, be prippey-ud ta bi looked ey-ut mahhty
strangely ennaweyuh no-ath a-tha Mason-Dixon Lahn.
Translation: If you want to sound like that, be prepared to be looked at
mighty strangely anywhere north of the Mason-Dixon Line.
Adam Atkinson
wrote:
> > "sure" e "shore" adesso si pronunciano uguali
>
> No way.
I think they're homophones in most of the UK, as other people have
said.
FatherMcKenzie
> the above definition.
OK
That pronunciation is Gomer Pyle/Forrest Gump Southern,
> and it's fine if you want to sound like one of them, but...
No, thanks, I don't like their accent :)
> F'ya wona sahnd lahk they-ut, be prippey-ud ta bi looked ey-ut mahhty
> strangely ennaweyuh no-ath a-tha Mason-Dixon Lahn.
Azz :) (southern italian for "hm, how weird!")
PS How would an Australian pronunciate the phrases above?
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article <he0n9s$ti4$1...@tdi.cu.mi.it>):
> Joe/Joey da New York ha scritto:
>> If I were editing Merriam Webster I would leave off the word "especially"
>> in
>> the above definition.
>
> OK
>
> That pronunciation is Gomer Pyle/Forrest Gump Southern,
>> and it's fine if you want to sound like one of them, but...
>
> No, thanks, I don't like their accent :)
>
>> F'ya wona sahnd lahk they-ut, be prippey-ud ta bi looked ey-ut mahhty
>> strangely ennaweyuh no-ath a-tha Mason-Dixon Lahn.
>
> Azz :) (southern italian for "hm, how weird!")
> PS How would an Australian pronunciate the phrases above?
>
I'll have to leave that to a native Aussie. Beyond "G'day, Mate!" and
"Crikey!" I don't speak Australian. :)
Joe/Joey da New York
(in article
<86368311-40df-4d2d...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>):
Hmm. I'll have to pay more attention to BBC America. That has somehow escaped
my ears.