The Sampradaya Sun - Independent Vaisnava News - Feature Stories - November 2009

[larry freeman p]

larry freeman p <lak...@webtv.net> has sent you the following web link:

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-09/editorials5268.htm

http://community.webtv.net/lakshmi/TheLakshmiSampradaya

[MARIO PINEDA]

Hare Krishna.
Thanks Aniruddha dasa. I remember you well. We lived at New Dwarka together and then I was in the Miami temple in 1984 and 1985 when you saw the illicit "lila". I was bhakta Mario then, originally from Chila.
I had heard rumors and saw this veda vata rata (rascal self made "God") Hridayananda dasa always talking to this Brazilian woman. He would also go to the beach daily in small swiming shorts I recall and a straw hat. She was so offensive to the rest of the more humble devotees too. Short tempered lady. I used to think to myself about this "guru" and this woman., "what the hell!!" I heard about Dravida dasa having talked to Hridayananda das about his close association with this woman, but I had no details. I was too busy cooking for and feeding 130 or so homeless people each day. This woman married like 5 times. She ended up with Sadaputa dasa at the "end". I can't help but wonder what was Sadaputa dasa thinking about to marry this woman.
 
Dravida, Gopiranadana and Drutakarma and othet such people are also VERY GUILTY, because they have always covered up, protected and suported the most significant and offensive deviation in LIFE, these rascal "Gods". True guru is the most important, Caitanya and Ramananda Raya concluded after 7 days and nights of discussion, so protecting those having illicit sex while promoted to be ., " as good as Krishna gurus" most serious and biggest offense in life. The same goes for the so many naive, gullible less intelligent and sentimental suporters of these rascals for so many years! This is why these peopele and ISKCON have so many problems that will NOT stop until the deviation and offense is detracted.
 We on the other hand, are preaching in bliss!!
So good job Aniruddha dasa prabhu!!
 
Sincerely,
 
Mahatma dasa
 

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:07:57 -0800
From: brenda...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re:Hridayananda's Falldowns
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CC: sweetgras...@hotmail.com

Dear Lakshmi,   Thanks for this article... Hypocricy abounds. This article just proves nothing will go right without the balance of the male/female energies in one's life... ISKCON pretty much denies this balance...in particular, it disempowers women by claiming that sanyas is the "highest standard" and women are on some sort of lower standard....and are "not qualified..." for just about anything... We all remember what happened to Visnu John...and so many others... It's really sad... Hridayananda's Falldowns BY: ANIRUDDHA DAS Nov 06, VRINDAVAN, INDIA (SUN) — Dear devotees, I could provide a lengthy narration of Hridayananda's falldown with a lady disciple, named Devamrita, an attractive woman from Brasil who was mentioned in Rocana dasa's recent article, "Aparadhi to the Sannyasa Order". I was his personal servant at that time, and was an eyewitness of that particular scandalous affair. In advance of writing a detailed narrative, I will recount the following incidents by way of a refutation of Candrabhanu's blind defense of Hridayananda. Hridayananda ordered Brahmatirtha to install a personal phone line to Devamrita's room at the so-called Govinda's Vaikuntha's Building, so he could communicate directly and privately with her at all times. He would spend hours upon hours talking to this woman, either talking to her personally or using the phone. I timed the hours of his association with this woman, and many days he would spend more than 8 hours talking directly or indirectly with her (via phone and letters.) This must be record-breaking for a so-called sannyasi. I remember perfectly (because it etched in my mind) that one day he woke at 4:00 a.m. and immediately called her. I was assisting, watching him at all times.. So this particular day Hridayananda stayed on the phone for a period of more than 3 and half hours. All through the brahma-muhurta. In order for me not to hear the details of the conversation, he asked me to leave his bedroom and lock the door. I waited anxiously all this time because as a good servant, I wanted to protect Hridayananda from this woman's advances. But actually, the one who is responsible for establishing and supporting this intimate relationship was Hridayananda himself. At the condominium where Hridayananda was staying, several nights he would wake up disturbed. He was so engrossed with this woman that he forgot to take basic "preventive" measures. I would wake up also to attend his needs (getting his clothes ready, etc.) and would then go into the bathroom to clean them.. So on these occasions I found his koupinas wet, emanating the distinctive stench of semen. These nocturnal emissions were obviously due to his being sexually agitated by his association with this woman. And this so-called "acarya" was translating the Tenth Canto "for the welfare of all conditioned souls"! With a deep feeling of disappointment and sadness, I would proceed to wash thoroughly the semen-soaked koupinas. Yes, shortly after that I left the company of this man forever. While talking to the woman Hridayananda was quite frivolous, cutting jokes and sometimes relating to her only as a lover would treat a beloved. Sometimes he would call her "monstrua", a Portuguese word for "a she-monster", or "bonitinha" ('very pretty'.) While he was alone with her, and I sometimes be close enough to hear or watch. I would massage Hridayananda on a daily basis, sometimes up to 3 times. A few times, while massaging him at the condominium, he would call the woman and make her sit directly in front of him. Barely 2 meters away at the most, she would sit on a kusa mat on the floor, with him wearing only a gamsha. I would always start the massage by standing behind him, applying my hands to work on his head and back. But the forceful, continuous movement of my hands would invariably pull up the gamsha and in this way, Hridayananda would have his genitals exposed, covered only by the brahminical underwear. The woman would try unsuccessfully not to stare directly at the bundle of genitals, but obviously this was impossible. So, in order to rectify the situation, I would turn around, stand in front of him and very deliberately pull down the gamsha in order to cover him again, at least up to the knees. But again, the gamsha would inevitably fold over and expose that private part of the body to the eyes of the woman. So every man knows that this is a subtle sexual game. The level of sexual agitation between the two was not only obvious, but shameless. I would warn Hridayananda: "Beware of this woman's intentions..." A couple of times he retorted: "Being in my place you would feel overwhelmed with lust. You are only projecting it on me". Once I told him: "Maharaha, this relationship can ruin your reputation. You are translating the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and devotees would want you to behave as a bona fide spiritual master." He never heeded my advice. He also scoffed at the many complaints lodged against him by well-intentioned but worried Godbrothers and followers. In fact, he stopped overtly associating with the woman (who I now see more as a victim than as a woman trying to make this so-called guru fall down) only after Gopiparanadhana and Dravida threatened not to work with him anymore on the translation and editing of the Bhagavatam, respectively. Hridayananda was aware that I was acting as a loyal bodyguard, protecting him at all times from the woman., so he would consciously keep me on duty, because that way he would have a third party confirming "he was doing nothing wrong." I'm in India right now and on two occasions, I have had to restart this article because the electricity went off. I could write a whole book of the saga between Hridayananda and Devamrita, but for any brahmanical devotee wishing to arrive at a correct conclusion about Hridayananda's status, this information is more than enough. This account is similar to the pictures Hridayananda that Harinamananda das published here at the Sampradaya Sun. It's a very sad but true history that needs to be undisclosed, so devotees all over the world can come to know who the real Hridayananda is, directly from a person who served as his personal servant for more than five years – and from someone who is not a fanatic ISKCON cheerleader. The details I have provided are the truth, and I am willing to repeat this history in front of Srila Prabhupada, the Deities and the GBC. Aniruddha das --- On Sat, 11/7/09, larry freeman p <lak...@webtv.net> wrote:

[MARIO PINEDA]

Hare Krishna. I was told that Hrdayananda dasa called his ex wife who he never took care of a prostitute for having married later again. What is the the poor lady to do when Hrdayananda dasa did not give a damn about her nor ISKCON as a whole? A good devotee gave her shelter ad the love she needed and they had children. Too bad this coupe still think gurus like Hridayananda are true gurus!! The brain washing is deep!
 
MD
 

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From: sweetgras...@hotmail.com
To: pg1...@netzero.com; alexandre...@yahoo.ca; amey...@16108.com; alice...@att.net; bhag...@hotmail.com; bhoj...@yahoo.com; has...@hotmail.com; dam...@vedatherapy.com; istag...@googlegroups.com; krsna...@yahoo.com; laurat...@hotmail.com; lal...@gmail.com; shutup...@hotmail.com; anad...@yahoo.com; nimai...@yahoo.com; ange...@yahoo.com; roupamanja...@gmail.com; sukad...@yahoo.com; in...@farmeducation.org; vmorel...@yahoo.com; william...@jagannatha.com; yasod...@yahoo.com; bvsa...@gmail.com; harek...@krishna.org; mv...@yahoo.com; mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk; makha...@verizon.net; zak...@earthlink.net; prtha_d...@hotmail.com; ramr...@aol.com; royric...@yahoo.com; krishn...@gmail.com; taru...@yahoo.com; visho...@yahoo.com; visv...@hotmail.com; spirit...@msn.com; markm...@yahoo.com; fallenf...@yahoo.com; jeff...@yahoo.com; mahar...@hotmail.com; bhaktat...@yahoo.com; spro...@yahoo.com; dasd...@aol.com; deshpa...@yahoo.com; wzo...@yahoo.com; baba...@aol.com; gaur...@aol.com; jiva...@yahoo.com; pss...@juno.com; sunil...@yahoo.com; madh...@yahoo.com; mahadh...@gmail.com; mahak...@yahoo.com; lak...@webtv.net
Subject: RE: Hridayananda's Falldowns
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:11:00 +0000

The relationship of a man and a woman is not bad in itself.  It is very natural and even sacred depending to the consciousness being brought to it.

The wrong here is the deception, pretending and misleading others that you are what you are not.  It is posing that is wanting position more than truth.  There is no integrity in his behavior.  He is practicing falsehood while posing as a representative of truth.  That is reprehensible.

It is so much more noble to admit sannyasa order is not his path and that for there to be any ethic or sacredness in his action he should commit himself to a relationship to Devamrita.  That is being true to himself , to others and to Krsna.  Otherwise he is phony and no good to himself or others.  Truth is the imperitive here.  Not position.  He must correct his error to be respectful to himself and to others. That is our first responsibility to be respectful.

This is my take on this matter, rectification and that we support him in compassion.

larry freeman p <lak...@webtv.net> has sent you the following web link: http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-09/editorials5268.htm http://community.webtv.net/lakshmi/TheLakshmiSampradaya

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[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

Good point, Mahatma Prabhu. It's the duty of every husband to give his wife at least one son, preferably two. Then she can be nicely protected in her old age, and then the husband is free to take vanaprastha when the oldest son is fully grown. Therefore, Hrdayananda is not only a failure at being a sannyasi, but he was a failure at being a grhastha as well!

 

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/)

[DHARMA]

Please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Srila Acaryadeva! All glories to all pure devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead! Please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all pure devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead!   I'm sorry, but I think this is something only the most advanced devotees should take into consideration.  For the innocent public it might be only so much "dirty laundry".  We need to look to a Krsna conscious world.  Currently, the world situation is extremely sad.  We should try to show as much respect as possible to anyone dedicating so much of their life to Krsna consciousness.  I don't think it is respectful to pass around "dirty laundry" testimonials to the innocent public.    ["I am poor in love of Godhead, and I have no asset for hearing about devotional service. Nor do I have any understanding of the science of devotional service, nor any cultivation of knowledge, nor any righteous activities to my credit. I am not even born in a high family. Nonetheless, O darling of the damsels of Vraja, I still maintain hopes of achieving You, and these hopes are always disturbing me."  Teachings of Lord Caitanya 13   Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.] Your servant in Krsna consciousness,   Citraketu dasa DHARMA yajnaya...@yahoo.com Provided by: ---DHARMA---   --- On Tue, 12/15/09, Shyama Priya <sweetgras...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Sean Hartigan]

Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, krodha bhakta-dveṣi jane. We have anger, and that anger can be a great quality when directed against a person who is envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His devotee. One should not be tolerant when a person is offensive towards Viṣṇu or a Vaiṣṇava. (SB4.4.10)

 

The "innocent public" deserves to know about the guilty private life of masqueraders.

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[Ameyatma das (ACBSP)]

Citraketu
Pamho   AgtSrila Prabhupad

I agree in principle that ideally the proper way to deal with these issues is to do so internally and not publicly.  That is, those who have complaints about the character of one of ISKCON's leaders should approach other senior leaders and discuss their concerns asking the other authorities, in this case the GBC, to take appropriate action.   (As an example, if a fairly new bhakta finds that his temple president is, say, having an affair with one of the brahmacarinis,   the proper course of action would be to inform the most senior members and his local GBC,   rather then to run out and write an article in the local public newspaper and calling the local TV news and radio stations, etc.).   

But, for many of us, the GBC has let us down.  For many years I have requested and begged the GBC to discuss with me the Guru/Rtvik topics and they have completely and totally refused.   I have asked that they discuss with me about the DOM,  they refuse.  I asked that they discuss with me about Prabhupad's 1974 TopMost Urgent written order,  and they have refused.    For most of us we have no GBC to go to.  They refuse to discuss with us major and pivotal issues.  The real issue is not Hrdayananda's falldowns,   it is the underlying rtvik/guru issue.    He should never have acted in post of initiating guru,  Srila Prabhupad only ever asked him to be Rtvik-Representative, Officiating Acharya.  That is ALL you will find written or spoken that Srila Prabhupad asked him to do.   It was the speculation of the GBC that after Srila Prabhupad depart that the Rtviks become regular gurus,   but,  there is no written or spoken statement by Srila Prabhupad where he has explicitly stated this.  And, then they REFUSE -  completely and totally -  to discuss the issue any further AT ALL with any of their god brothers,   period.  Either publicly or privately.  It is their obstinate, cold, and offensive attitude that has created an atmosphere where the only avenue many of us have is to take our issues to the public forums.

Last year I made a video rebuttal to a video lecture given by Hrdayananda that was published on the internet. In my rebuttal i pointed out that Hd-gosvami was selectively rejecting aspects of Prabhupad's teachings.   I sent links to the video to 500 devotees, including most of the GBC.   I was also criticized by a handful why I did not privately discuss with the GBC first,   why i went public with such an issue.   But, because they have refused, for 12 years, after at least 12 attempts, to discuss with me on the rtvik issue,  I have no GBC to go to.    

It must be noted that most of the devotees are writing about incidents that took place years ago,   and the GBC has been informed of the more serious issues for many years,  and never took any action.   I think they must have felt there was too little evidence, or that those who made complaints were just fault-finders and so they ignored the complaints and never took action.   Again, it is due to their inactions, or improper actions, that have forced everyone to go public.  But, again, take note that most of them are discussing issues that took place years ago.   It isn't that these devotees never said a word to anyone in all those years and that the first place they made their complaint was in public.  The GBC has heard about these issues for years and years,   and they are the ones who are to blame for all of us going public. 

Regarding my Beware of Darkness,  Beware of Maya videos I made last year (about Hrdaya) the GBC contacted me after they became aware of them and asked me for a transcript.  In doing so I informed them I would be avaiable for further discussion on the issues, and I asked that they kindly keep me informed of what actions or conclusions the GBC made regarding this.   They never corresponded with me any further.  They never asked for my on-going input,   nor did they keep me informed of any decisions or actions they made.   NOTHING.    Yet, most of them, the more senior members, know me very well, personally.   What a way to treat a god brother.

Take your complaints to the GBC and ask them to discuss the real underlying issues with us.  The real issues with Hrdaya is and the GBC have presented him as someone he is not.  Prabhupad only ever asked him to be Rtvik -  he never appointed him as successor Acharya.  

Those who want to be gurus,  want to take disciples,    Do So   in their own Ashrams,   but, stop using Prabhupad's ashrams and the resources of his ashrams for promoting themselves and collecting dakshin and followers for themselves.  Do so in their own separate ashrams.  Not in my guru's ashram.  

ys ameyatma das

[Gauridasa Pandita Dasa]

Dear Ameyatma & All Prabhus,

Dandavats! AGT HDG Srila Prabhupada!

I've had the same experience or lack thereof with the GBC. I have been trying since Srila Prabhupada to get them to hear my eye and ear witness account of the events when Srila Prabhupada gave his instructions for initiations in ISKCON after his departure. 

I have been told they have no time. They have no interest. If you notice most of them are acting as diksa gurus, so they don't want to give it up. Since they can't defeat Srila Prabhupada's instructions they dare to say he was wrong. That it is not in our Sampradaya. That ritviks are envious. And they get their blind followers to join in the offenses to His Divine Grace and his true followers.

Thus the movement has become stagnent. A group of groups. The unity and love and trust which the movement was founded on is lost! And the GBC have no time or desire to fix it! What will it take to get a change of heart? Anything?! Maybe only time will help, Krsna is time, past, present and future, the generater of all things yet to be. The current socalled diksa gurus is what is unheard of in our Sampradaya!

They are claiming 'tradition' but are acting against it and HDG themselves! It's a wonder they refuse open and honest discussion on the most important issue we have.

We had one debate/discussion with the North American GBC at the San Diego Temple in January 1990. The Video is available from ITV. We voted with the GBC at the end and another meeting was approved to happen at the 1990 GBC mettings in Sridam Mayapur. Instead of allowing the meeting to happen they made resolutions that no devotees in ISKCON could even utter the word 'ritvik' or they will be Banned from the Temples!

OMG! 

So we are up against time. We have to hang in there and keep the faith and practice of pure Krsna Consciousness and pray for Krsna's help in this. Our goal is to save Srila Prabhupada's Guruship and legacy, thus expanding his mission. It's not that we are envious of our Godbrothers and sister, it's that we want to do what Srila Prabhupada said. That is not a crime! It us our duty!

Since they still refuse open honest discussions we have to resort to the Internet where thousands of devotees have seen the light on this and more are realizing the Truth all the time.

Our last resort which I hope we can avoid to to take it to court. All the facts and evidence are on our side. Srila Prabhupada criticized the Gaudiya Math for their long court battles so I am reluctant to take that course but it may have to be done to save his mission which he wants.

Nalini Kanta Prabhu, the Vedic astrologer, says astrologically, things will start improving big time after 2012. So I'll give it about 5 more years. If we are in the same boat without a captain and the pirates are still controlling the ship, we should take them to court and have a karmi judge make them walk the plank! 

Hoping this meets you in best of health and happiness in KC!

Your friend and servant,

Gauridasa Pandita Dasa

Chant Hare KRSNA 

and your life will 

be Sublime!

~=>; )

=

[DHARMA]

PAMHO AGTSP   We can get lost in so many details.  Focusing on this one concern it is a concern for all devotees.  We can analyze Sri Upadesamrta over and over, but there are some practical and scientific concerns regarding sex desire for devotees.    There is a biochemical response regarding sex desire and it works something like hallucinegenics or opium.  With just the tiniest little thought of sex a devotee can get bewildered and it may take months to recover.  While in a state of bewilderment there may be subtle sex in the form of feelings or even fantasies in dreams.  This can result in nocturnal discharge especially for one who has restrained from all sex for months and years.  There is natural therapy for this malady.   Sex desire does have to do with conditioning in previous lives as well as this life.  Sex desire is affected by our dietary and sleeping habits.  Association can affect our sex desire.    We can't do anything about conditioning from previous lives, but we can try to control our diet, our association, and sleeping habits.  This is controling sex desire in accordance with the principles of goodness.  Also, the idle mind is the devil's workshop.  Srila Prabhupada often said don't remain idle.  We need to keep busy with the body and mind as well as with the intelligence.  Then, our total being should be directed towards full surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.    Another way of putting this way of thinking is that if a sannyasi encounters trouble like this perhaps we should simply say they need doctoring.  I am offering notes in this regard.    Some may know all this already.  We achieve full surrender through the nine processes of devotion.  We can also try some agricultural self-sufficiency which can help to keep us fully engaged.  We have more room for devotees with our New Talavan community here in Mississippi, USA.

Your servant in Krsna consciousness, Citraketu dasa

Provided by: ---DHARMA---   --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@16108.com> wrote:

From: Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@16108.com> Subject: Re: Hridayananda's Falldowns

[Ameyatma das (ACBSP)]

brenda macedo wrote:

Celibacy can purify the mind, no doubt... However, I don't believe that deviating from celibacy is always due to a "restless mind" or "out of control" desires.

But, that is the fact, whether or not you 'believe' or not.  Enlightened souls have all come to this same realization.  The Vedic scripture is full of such instructions and examples.   This is the material world,   and we are entrapped in these material bodies which are subject to the laws and modes of material nature. 

We all have karma with various individuals. Sex attraction, at least for well-balanced individuals, is personal. Like Krisna, who once stated "I am sex life..." is also personal.

You left off the important part,     "I am sex life...  that is in accordance with the regulative principles of religion"  -  Not just any sex life. 
For a sannyasi, he has taken a strict vow -  to never engage in any sex life again,  period.    That is part of the vow of Sannyas - Sat - Nyasi

I think if Hridayananda had a personal connection with this woman in Brazil, he should have been honest, straight forward (like yourself) and either opted out the relationship and apologized or opted out of his role as a sanyas.    Period.   There should be no judgement whatsoever on our parts about his karmic connection with this woman.

The judgment, as you call it,  is because  1) he has taken the vow of Sannyas.  Sannyas is a very responsible social post.  One who has taken a solemn vow of celibacy.  Socially, sannyasis are given much respect for taking and maintaining such an austere vow.     It is unacceptable for someone to carry on with such deception.      It is cheating the whole society.      As you say, if he found himself in such a (fatal) attraction for this woman, or any woman,   and he had a relation with her,  he should have come forward in an honest way,   and if he wanted to continue or further his relation, then, as you say, opted out from his role of Sannyas.  

But, for the most part when devotees do this,  they lose their standing socially.  They have broken their strict vows.   I know Hrdaya, I have had correspondence with him about the post of guru, etc,   and I am sure that he was 'affraid' that if he left sannyas and married this or some other woman,   it would severely weaken his Guru status, socially, in our society.  When he wrote me, he spoke of how he missed the Zonal Acharya days - when he felt the Gurus were more able to act as gurus, and he lamented that the GBC stepped on the guru's toes and took away their Acharya status.  My view is that he was afraid of loosing more Social Status,   and thus, he chose to live in denial and create a veil of deception.   

That, mataji, is what we are upset about.   The deception, and misleading of the society.  

I think most people, including myself, are reacting to is his history of "puffed upness" regarding so many issues and even in his demeanor and way of speaking to others...which has always been very demeaning...not so much that he had an affair. This is what has been so irritating over the years, at least for me.

No,  we are also upset that he had an affair     because he had taken vow of strict Celibacy.   He, if he had such affair, then broke that vow.  Those vows are sacred, made before Fire, Guru and Krsna   and if someone has broken then and then deceives others he has not,  it is unacceptable.    The vows of sannyas, of diksha, of Marriage,   etc.,  are all to be taken very very seriously.      As a person,  he can marry,   but as sannyas,  he cannot,    not without stepping down.   But, to have had affair and deceive others that he is still to worthy of the honor and respect given to a sannyasi,   that is unacceptable.  

Mataji,  understand,  it is no different if he were married man,   had taken vow of marriage,      then has nothing to do with his wife, his children, does not care for them,  has affairs with other women,     but hides all this so that society will give him the respect of a responsible married man.    When, instead, he is cheater, and irresponsible...    But, he wants people to respect him as honorable and respected husband and father...     He would not be worthy of such honor and respect, and his actions would be an insult to those men who are worthy of such respect,   and honoring and respecting him for those things would be an insult to his wife and children.    Our position is no different.  I am sure you agree.

But there is no shame in taking a wife or husband. There is only shame in being so puffed up that you believe that somehow you're better than Prabhupada and Krisna, who also had a wife...and many wives...

There is no shame for a brahmacari to take wife.    But, if i am married and take more than one wife,   then neglect by first wife and children,   that is not good.   When one takes marriage vows, he is vowing to care for his wife, be responsible for her happiness and care for the children that come as result.  A vow is made. 

The vow of sannyas is also sacred,    and that vow is broken when on has affair or marriage with woman.   For a sannyasi who has vowed to TOTALLY for the rest of one's life RENOUNCE from sex life,    then there is great shame in taking wife.   Then a very sacred vow has been broken.

Lord Ram Chandra had taken vow that he would never marry again,   Eka Patni Vrata,  the vow of only taking one wife.    Latter, after returning to Ayodhya some fault finders criticized Sita and Ram. Ram felt this was not good, and she he had to ban Sita.    Then, Ram was left without wife, and the kingdom was without Queen.  Other citizens begged Ram to take another wife,    but he could not,   for he had made the vow of Eka Patni Vrata.   He would not violate or break a sacred vow.

Or better  there is Bhisma.   When he was young man,   who was in line to become the next ruler of the planet,    he took the Most Horrible Vow of Life-Long Celibacy.  He did this to make his father happy, so his father could take another wife.   But, this was considered by all to be a most horrible vow,  and it was the cause of the unraveling of the Kuru dynasty.      Still,  once he had taken such a vow,   it was no longer acceptable for him to break such a solemn vow.   Hrdayananda took vow of celibacy,   for him to break that vow is not acceptable. 

ys ameya

--- On Thu, 12/17/09, Roupamanjari devi dasi Zakheim <roupamanja...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roupamanjari devi dasi Zakheim <roupamanja...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Hridayananda's Falldowns

To: amey...@16108.com Cc: "DHARMA" <spro...@yahoo.com>, pg1...@netzero.com, alexandre...@yahoo.ca, alice...@att.net, bhag...@hotmail.com, bhoj...@yahoo.com, has...@hotmail.com, dam...@vedatherapy.com, istag...@googlegroups.com, krsna...@yahoo.com, laurat...@hotmail.com, lal...@gmail.com, shutup...@hotmail.com, anad...@yahoo.com, nimai...@yahoo.com, ange...@yahoo.com, sukad...@yahoo.com, in...@farmeducation.org, vmorel...@yahoo.com, william...@jagannatha.com, yasod...@yahoo.com, bvsa...@gmail.com, harek...@krishna.org, "radha-govinda" <mv...@yahoo.com>, mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk, makha...@verizon.net, zak...@earthlink.net, prtha_d...@hotmail.com, ramr...@aol.com, royric...@yahoo.com, krishn...@gmail.com, taru...@yahoo.com, visho...@yahoo.com, visv...@hotmail.com, spirit...@msn.com, markm...@yahoo.com, fallenf...@yahoo.com, jeff...@yahoo.com, mahar...@hotmail.com, bhaktat...@yahoo.com, dasd...@aol.com, deshpa...@yahoo.com, wzo...@yahoo.com, baba...@aol.com, gaur...@aol.com, jiva...@yahoo.com, pss...@juno.com, sunil...@yahoo.com, madh...@yahoo.com, mahadh...@gmail.com, mahak...@yahoo.com, lak...@webtv.net, "Shyama Priya" <sweetgras...@hotmail.com>, "Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP" <praty...@gmail.com>, "urdh...@aol.com" <Urdh...@aol.com>, "brenda macedo" <brenda...@yahoo.com>, "Gadadhara das" <cc...@yahoo.com>, nityanan...@gmail.com, srimu...@yahoo.com, tu...@planet1.info, "Yasodanandana Dasa II" <jlan...@live.com>, "Mother Omkara Prabhu" <go2adi...@sbcglobal.net>, "Aprakrita dasa" <ra...@videotron.ca>, "Don Rousse" <dhane...@yahoo.com> Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 10:30 AM Dear Ameyatma Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! The current GBC of ISKCON is not elected by the terms of the Direction of Management, and is therefore unauthorized and illegal. Instead of election by the pool of Temple Presidents every 3 years, as the Direction of Management describes, the GBCs-in-name-only appoint themselves and each other to position for unstipulated lengths of time based on the willingness of the potential to sign a stack of documents declaring his legally binding opinion on virtually all of the major, minor, and mediocre points of ISKCON--Law and policies, Kirtan and temple operation, Sastra, and initiation--few of which bear resemblance to the precepts and standards of Srila Prabhupada. In addition, instead of "organizing the opening of new Temples and maintaining the established Temples", which is the GBC's prescribed duty elucidated in Srila Prabhupada's Direction of Management, the GBC maintains a centralized corporate structure decried by Srila Prabhupada in His Letter to Karandhar (attached), and controls virtually every aspect of ISKCON, with self-passed annual "resolutions" giving the GBC-in-name-only license to continue to repress Srila Prabhupada, His Mission, and His followers, embezzle His funds, change His Books (prohibited in the DOM) and Kirtan, and to maintain complete autocratic power over the body of ISKCON, which comes at the direct expense of the spiritual welfare guaranteed by Srila Prabhupada to all of the fallen souls populating this planet. You speak fondly about your "senior Godbrothers" as if they are somehow your friends and well-wishers, but it is stated by Srila Krishna das Kaviraja Goswami in the Caitanya Caritamrita 12.10 Purport that "Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless." So why waste precious time arguing and lamenting with useless people,  when that same energy could be utilized in distributing the Direction of Management amongst the body of devotees both old and new? The Direction of Management will manifest in ISKCON Law if enough people demand it, in temples throughout the world. The original gurus and GBCs, and therefore their artificial power structure in ISKCON, are dying and weakening, and what is left of the eroded body of Srila Prabhupada's magnificent work now has a golden opportunity to be resurrected.  Is this not our responsibility to Srila Prabhupada, our Spiritual Master who accepted us at His Lotus Feet - to distribute His unchanged Words wholesale without regard for consequence? Is this not our responsibility to the billions of people living in this world, searching vainly for shelter, for peace?   Let the Direction of Management speak for itself, and let the people come to their own conclusions.  As representatives of the Acarya Srila Prabhupada, let us simply make this order known to the body of ISKCON members, and indeed the world, where in the past it was suppressed and ignored.  If the Direction of Management manifests as the Constitution of ISKCON, and the elected Governing Body Commission finally performs its actual duty to the people and temples, by the Causeless Mercy of our Founder-Acarya we will have a true International Society for Krishna Consciousness, where all voices are equal and heard, and all needs met.    Your eternal servant, Roupamanjari devi dasi Excerpt Letter to Karandhara by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness — Bombay 22 December, 1972 "Regarding your points about taxation, corporate status, etc., I have heard from Jayatirtha you want to make big plan for centralization of management, taxes, monies, corporate status, bookkeeping, credit, like that. I do not at all approve of such plan. Do not centralize anything. Each temple must remain independent and self-sufficient. That was my plan from the very beginning, why you are thinking otherwise? Once before you wanted to do something centralizing with your GBC meeting, and if I did not interfere the whole thing would have been killed. Do not think in this way of big corporation, big credits, centralization—these are all nonsense proposals. Only thing I wanted was that books printing and distribution should be centralized, therefore I appointed you and Bali Mardan to do it. Otherwise, management, everything, should be done locally by local men. Accounts must be kept, things must be in order and lawfully done, but that should be each temple's concern, not yours. Krishna Consciousness Movement is for training men to be independently thoughtful and competent in all types of departments of knowledge and action, not for making bureaucracy. Once there is bureaucracy the whole thing will be spoiled. There must be always individual striving and work and responsibility, competitive spirit, not that one shall dominate and distribute benefits to the others and they do nothing but beg from you and you provide. No. Never mind there may be botheration to register each centre, take tax certificate each, become separate corporations in each state. That will train men how to do these things, and they shall develop reliability and responsibility, that is the point. I am little observing now, especially in your country, that our men are losing their enthusiasm for spreading on our programmes of Krishna Consciousness movement. Otherwise, why so many letters of problems are coming, dissatisfied? That is not a very good sign. The whole problem is they are not following the regulative principles, that I can detect. Without this, enthusiasm will be lacking. Even mechanically following, and if he gets gradually understanding from the class, he will come to the point of spontaneous enthusiasm. This spontaneous loving devotional service is not so easy matter, but if one simply sticks strictly to the rules and regulations, like rising early, chanting 16 rounds, chanting gayatri, keeping always clean—then his enthusiasm will grow more and more, and if there is also patience and determination, one day he will come to the platform of spontaneous devotion, then his life will be perfect. All of this I have told you in Nectar of Devotion. So I do not think the leaders are themselves following, nor they are seeing the others are following strictly. That must be rectified at once. Each centre remain independent, that's all right, but the president and other officers must themselves follow and see the others are following the regulative principles carefully, and giving them good instruction so they may understand nicely why this tapasya is necessary. And GBC and Sannyasis will travel and see the officers are doing this, and if they observe anything lowering of the standard, they must reform and advise, or if there is some discrepancy I shall remove it. Of course, if new men are coming, they may not be expected immediately to take to our regulative principles cent per cent. Therefore we should not be so anxious to induce them to live in the temple. Anyone who lives in the temple must agree to follow the rules and regulations without fail. So if some new man moves in with us he may become discouraged if he is forced in this way. Therefore let them live outside and become gradually convinced in the class why they should accept some austerity, then they will live with us out of their own accord and follow nicely everything. It is very difficult to give up very quickly so many bad habits as you have got in your country, so educate them gradually, first with chanting, and do not be so much anxious to count up so many numbers of new devotees, if such devotees go away later being too early forced. I want to see a few sincere devotees, not many false devotees or pretenders. "So my point is that the regulative principles must be followed by everyone. Otherwise their enthusiasm dwindles and they again think of sex and become restless, and so many problems are there. There is some symptom of missing the point. The point is to be engaged in doing something for Krishna, never mind what is that job, but being so engaged in doing something very much satisfying to the devotee that he remains always enthusiastic. He will automatically follow the regulative principles because they are part of his occupational duty—by applying them practically as his occupational duty, he realizes the happy result of regulative principles. So the future of this Krishna Consciousness movement is very bright, so long the managers remain vigilant that 16 rounds are being chanted by everyone without fail, that they are all rising before four morning, attending mangal arati—our leaders shall be careful not to kill the spirit of enthusiastic service, which is individual and spontaneous and voluntary. They should try always to generate some atmosphere of fresh challenge to the devotees, so that they will agree enthusiastically to rise and meet it. That is the art of management: to draw out spontaneous loving spirit of sacrificing some energy for Krishna. But where are so many expert managers? All of us should become expert managers and preachers. We should not be very much after comforts and become complacent or self-contented. There must be always some tapasya, strictly observing the regulative principles—Krishna Consciousness movement must be always a challenge, a great achievement to be gained by voluntary desire to do it, and that will keep it healthy. So you big managers now try to train up more and more some competent preachers and managers like yourselves. Forget this centralizing and bureaucracy. Hoping this meets you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS:sda -------- INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INCORPORATED FOUNDER-ACHARYA: HIS DIVINE GRACE A. C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT I, the undersigned, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, disciple of Om Visnupad Paramhansa 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaj Prabhupada, came in the United States in 1965 on September 18th for the purpose of starting Krishna Consciousness Movement. For one year I had no shelter. I was travelling in many parts of this country. Then in 1966, July, I incorporated the Society under the name and style the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, briefly ISKCON. The lawyer was Mr. J. Goldsmith. Gradually the Society increased, and one after another branches were opened. Now we have got thirty-four (34) branches enlisted herewith: Amsterdam, Holland Atlanta, Georgia..............1476 Oxford Rd. N.E. 30322 Baltimore, Maryland...........1300 N. Calvert St. Berkeley, California...........2710 Durant Avenue 94704 Berlin, West Germany Boston, Massachusetts........ 40 N. Beacon St. 02134 Boulder, Colorado.............623 Concord St. Buffalo, New York.............40 Englewood Ave. 14214 Chicago, Illinois.............2210 N. Halstead St. Columbus,Ohio..................318East20thAve.43201 Detroit, Michigan.............74 West Forest St. 48201 Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K. Hamburg, West Germany.........2000 Hamburg 6, Bartelstrasse 65 Honolulu, Hawaii..............2016 McKinley St. 96822 Laguna Beach, California......130 Woodland Drive 92651 London, England...............7 Bury Place, Bloomsbury, W..C. 1 Los Angeles, California.......3764 Watseka Ave. 90034 Montreal, Canada..............3720 Park Ave. New Vrndavana, W. Virginia....RD 3 Moundsville 26041 New York City, New York...... 61 Second Ave. 10003 Paris, France.................c/o Serge Elbeze, BO 113 Paris 14 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania....416 South 10th St. 19147 Provincetown, Massachusetts...104 Bradford St. San Diego, California.........3689 Park Blvd. San Francisco, California.....618 Frederick St. 94117 San Jose, California..........70 Hawthorne Way Santa Barbara, California ....6654 del Playa, Goleta 93017 Seattle, Washington...........n5516 Roosevelt Way N.E. 98105 St. Louis, Missouri...........4544 LaClede Ave. 63110 Sydney, Australia..............298 Birrell St. Bondi, N.S.W. 2026 Tokyo, Japan...................6-16, 2 Chome Ohhashi, Meguro-Ku Toronto, Canada...............40 Beverly St., Ontario Vancouver, Canada.............260 Raymur St., No. 305, B..C. Washington, D.C...............2015 Q Street N.W. 20009 As we have increased our volume of activities, now I think a Governing Body Commission (hereinafter referred to as the GBC) should be established.. I am getting old, 75 years old, therefore at any time I may be out of the scene, therefore I think it is necessary to give instruction to my disciples how they shall manage the whole institution. They are already managing individual centers represented by one president, one secretary and one treasurer, and in my opinion they are doing nice. But we want still more improvement in the standard of Temple management, propaganda for Krishna Consciousness, distribution of books and literatures, opening of new centers and educating devotees to the right standard. Therefore, I have decided to adopt the following principles and I hope my beloved disciples will kindly accept them. There was a meeting in San Francisco during the Ratha Yatra festival 1970 and many presidents of the centers were present. In that meeting it was resolved that an ad hoc committee be set up to form the constitution which is taken into consideration. My duty was to first appoint twelve (12) persons to my free choice amongst my disciples and I do it now and their names are as follows: 1. Sriman Rupanuga Das Adhikary 2. Sriman Bhagavandas Adhikary 3. Sriman Syamsundar Das Adhikary 4. Sriman Satsvarupa Das Adhikary 5. Sriman Karandhar Das Adhikary 6. Sriman Hansadutta Das Adhikary 7. Sriman Tamala Krsna Das Adhikary 8. Sriman Sudama Das Adhikary 9. Sriman Bali Mardan Das Brahmacary 10. Sriman Jagadisa Das Adhikary 11. Sriman Hayagriva Das Adhikary 12. Sriman Krsnadas Adhikary These personalities are now considered as my direct representatives. While I am living they will act as my zonal secretaries and after my demise they will be known as Executors. I have already awarded Sannyas or the renounced order of life to some of my students and they have also got very important duties to perform in this connection. The Sannyasis will travel to our different centers for preaching purpose as well as enlightening the members of the center for spiritual advancement. The Sannyasis will suggest for opening new centers in suitable places and the GBC will take action on it. As was stipulated by the ad hoc committee, the function of the GBC will be as follows with particulars: PARTICULARS OF THE GOVERNING BODY COMMISSION "The purpose of the Governing Body Commission is to act as the instrument for the execution of the Will of His Divine Grace. And further, 1. The GBC oversees all operations and management of ISKCON, as it receives direction from Srila Prabhupada and His Divine Grace has the final approval in all matters. 2. His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, which may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple. Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Srila Prabhupada will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Srila Prabhupada's absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain. 3. The commissioners will serve for a period of 3 years, and they may be re-elected at the end of this period. 4. The chairman is elected by the GBC for each meeting. He has no veto power, but in even of a vote tie, his vote will decide. The same will apply for votes cast by mail between regular meetings. 5. Throughout the year, each of the commissioners will stay with His Divine Grace for one month at a time and keep the other commissioners informed of His Divine Grace's instructions. 6. The primary objective of the GBC is to organize the opening of new Temples and to maintain the established Temples. 7. Advice will be given by the GBC in cases of real property purchases, which will be in the name of ISKCON, INC. (Trucks or other vehicles will be purchased in the name of the local president). 8. Removal of a Temple president by the GBC requires support by the local Temple members. 9. The GBC has no jurisdiction in the publication of manuscripts, which will be handled by a separate committee; profits to be returned to Srila Prabhupada. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * So far my books are concerned, I am setting up a different body of management known as the BHAKTIVEDANTA BOOK TRUST. The trustees of this body are also members of the GBC, but their function is not dependent on the GBC. ISKCON Press was created for the exclusive publication of my books and literatures and should be continued in that way. During my absence no one shall live in my apartment. Witnessed by: Date July 28th 1970 (Robert F. Corens) Rupanuga das Adhikary (William R. Ehrlichman) Bhagavan das Adhikary (Kelly Gifford Smith) Karandhar das Adhikary ACB A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Date July 28th, 1970 At the World Head Quarters 3764, Watseka Avenue Los Angeles, California 90034

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@16108.com> wrote:

Citraketu Pamho   AgtSrila Prabhupad I agree in principle that ideally the proper way to deal with these issues is to do so internally and not publicly.  That is, those who have complaints about the character of one of ISKCON's leaders should approach other senior leaders and discuss their concerns asking the other authorities, in this case the GBC, to take appropriate action.   (As an example, if a fairly new bhakta finds that his temple president is, say, having an affair with one of the brahmacarinis,   the proper course of action would be to inform the most senior members and his local GBC,   rather then to run out and write an article in the local public newspaper and calling the local TV news and radio stations, etc.).    But, for many of us, the GBC has let us down.  For many years I have requested and begged the GBC to discuss with me the Guru/Rtvik topics and they have completely and totally refused.   I have asked that they discuss with me about the DOM,  they refuse.  I asked that they discuss with me about Prabhupad's 1974 TopMost Urgent written order,  and they have refused.    For most of us we have no GBC to go to.  They refuse to discuss with us major and pivotal issues.  The real issue is not Hrdayananda's falldowns,   it is the underlying rtvik/guru issue.    He should never have acted in post of initiating guru,  Srila Prabhupad only ever asked him to be Rtvik-Representative, Officiating Acharya.  That is ALL you will find written or spoken that Srila Prabhupad asked him to do.   It was the speculation of the GBC that after Srila Prabhupad depart that the Rtviks become regular gurus,   but,  there is no written or spoken statement by Srila Prabhupad where he has explicitly stated this.  And, then they REFUSE -  completely and totally -  to discuss the issue any further AT ALL with any of their god brothers,   period.  Either publicly or privately.  It is their obstinate, cold, and offensive attitude that has created an atmosphere where the only avenue many of us have is to take our issues to the public forums.

Last year I made a video rebuttal to a video lecture given by Hrdayananda that was published on the internet. In my rebuttal i pointed out that Hd-gosvami was selectively rejecting aspects of Prabhupad's teachings.   I sent links to the video to 500 devotees, including most of the GBC..   I was also criticized by a handful why I did not privately discuss with the GBC first,   why i went public with such an issue.   But, because they have refused, for 12 years, after at least 12 attempts, to discuss with me on the rtvik issue,  I have no GBC to go to.

-- oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance. Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita: As It Is by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[larry freeman p]

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From: zak...@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: Hridayananda's Falldowns

Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:38:52 -0800
To: brenda...@yahoo.com

On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, brenda macedo wrote:

Dear Roupamanjari,   It's too bad ISKCON doesn't appoint you to manange some of the electoral issues that you bring up.  The GBC could use someone like you.

GBC ARE ELECTED. 

THERE IS PRESENTLY NO GBC AUTHORIZED TO USE A DISCIPLE OF SP FOR ANYTHING.

I agree with most of what you say in your post except for one part when you state:

"So my point is that the regulative principles must be followed by everyone.

Otherwise their enthusiasm dwindles and they again think of sex and become restless..."

Celibacy can purify the mind, no doubt... However, I don't believe that deviating from celibacy is always due to a "restless mind" or "out of control" desires.

We all have karma with various individuals. Sex attraction, at least for well-balanced individuals, is personal. Like Krisna, who once stated "I am sex life..." is also personal.

I think if Hridayananda had a personal connection with this woman in Brazil, he should have been honest, straight forward (like yourself) and either opted out the relationship and apologized or opted out of his role as a sanyas.    Period.   There should be no judgement whatsoever on our parts about his karmic connection with this woman.

I think most people, including myself, are reacting to is his history of "puffed upness" regarding so many issues and even in his demeanor and way of speaking to others...which has always been very demeaning...not so much that he had an affair. This is what has been so irritating over the years, at least for me.

This irritating demeanor of his, I believe, stems from "Pride of celibacy..." For example, he boasted about often having taken sanyas at "23" and compared himself to Srila Prabhupada, who only took sanyas later in life at 60, after having many children, etc.... So Krisna knocked that down his pride in such a way, with witnesses, etc. which couldn't be denied.

But there is no shame in taking a wife or husband. There is only shame in being so puffed up that you believe that somehow you're better than Prabhupada and Krisna, who also had a wife...and many wives...

[larry freeman p]

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From: zak...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Hridayananda's Falldowns

Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:36:25 -0800
To: amey...@16108.com

On Dec 17, 2009, at 7:07 AM, Ameyatma das (ACBSP) wrote:

Citraketu
Pamho   AgtSrila Prabhupad

I agree in principle that ideally the proper way to deal with these issues is to do so internally and not publicly. 

SULOCHAN WROTE "THE GURU BUSINESS" WHEN IT BECAME OBVIOUS THAT THE GBC AND SENIOR LEADERS WOULD ONLY COVER UP SCANDALS, AND NEVER SOLVE THEM OR BRING RELIEF TO THE VICTIMS OF ABUSE AND MOLESTATION.

That is, those who have complaints about the character of one of ISKCON's leaders should approach other senior leaders and discuss their concerns asking the other authorities, 

ACCORDING TO THE DOM, THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY IS THE TEMPLE PRESIDENT. IF THE TEMPLE PRESIDENT IS ELECTED, THE AUTHORITY TO WHOM HE MUST ANSWER IS HIS CONGREGATION. IF THEY ARE DIS-SATISFIED WITH HIS BEHAVIOR, THEY CAN EITHER RECALL HIM FROM THE OFFICE OF TP, OR WAIT FOR THE ELECTION AND REPLACE HIM.

 

IF HE HAS BROKEN THE LAW, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO REMAND HIM TO THE POLICE AND DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. ISKCON HAS MADE THE MISTAKE SHARED WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THAT THE CRIMINAL PRIESTHOOD ARE YET ABOVE THE LAW OF THE LAND.

THEY ARE NOT.

SO, EITHER ELECT A NEW TP, REMOVE THE TP BY A RECALL ELECTION, OR HAVE HIM ARRESTED FOR CRIMES COMMITTED.

"OTHER AUTHORITIES" ACTUALLY MEANS THE TEMPLE CONGREGATION WHO ELECTED THE TP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THE GBC ARE ELECTED FOR THREE YEAR TERMS. IF THEY DO BADLY, YOU CAN ELECT SOMEONE ELSE, OR HAVE A RE-CALL ELLECTION, OR HAVE HIM ARRESTED IF A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED.

in this case the GBC, to take appropriate action.   (As an example, if a fairly new bhakta finds that his temple president is, say, having an affair with one of the brahmacarinis,   the proper course of action would be to inform the most senior members and his local GBC, 

AN AFFAIR WITH THE BRAHMACHARINI WOULD NOT BE A GBC MATTER, BUT WOULD BE A MATTER FOR THE CONGREGATION TO DEAL WITH. IT IS A LOCAL; MATTER, AND THE GBC ARE SPECIFICALLY CHARGE TO DEAL WITH ISSUES THAT CONCERN MULTIPLE TEMPLES, AS THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE GBC REPRESENTATIVE OF PERHAPS A DOZEN OR TWO DOZEN TEMPLES...(OR EVEN A HUNDRED TEMPLES).

WHO IS HAVING SEX WITH WHO IS NOT A GBC AFFAIR, AND MUST BE DEALT WITH BY THE REAL AUTHORITIES....THE MEMBERS OF THE TEMPLE THEMSELVES........COMMUNALLY VIA ISTAOSTHI.

  rather then to run out and write an article in the local public newspaper and calling the local TV news and radio stations, etc.). 

THAT COURSE OF ACTION EXISTS WHEN THE SYSTEM FAILS IN ITS ENTIRETY. FOR INSTANCE THE HUGE AND EGREGIOUS COVER UP OF CATHOLIC PRIESTS WHO HAD MOLESTED (IN SOME CASES) HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN EACH, AND HAD BEEN SENT TO OTHER PARISHES TO PROTECT THE PRIEST, NOT THE VICTIMS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN SOLVED BY GOING TO "HIGHER AUTHORITY".....IT WAS THE HIGHER AUTHORITY WHO WAS COVERING UP THE CRIMES AGAINST THE CHILDREN.

THE EXPOSES IN THE PRESS DID FOR THE VICTIMES OF THE CATHOLIC PRIESTS WHAT 1,500 YEARS OF "KEEPING IT TO THEMSELVES" FAILED TO DO WITHIN THE CHURCH.

WHEN SULOCHAN FIRST PREPARED 'THE GURU BUSINESS" I, AND PRACTUALLY EVERYONE ELSE THOUGHT THAT HE HAD GONE MAD TO GO OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM.

NOW, IF YOU READ THAT SAME BOOK....IT SEEMS TAME COMPARED TO WHAT CAME OUT LATER IN THE MANNDR OF MOLESTIONS AND GURUCIDE.

But, for many of us, the GBC has let us down.  For many years I have requested and begged the GBC to discuss with me the Guru/Rtvik topics and they have completely and totally refused. 

THEY POISONED SP TO AVOID THAT CONVERSATION. 

WHY WOULD THEY NOT REFUSE TO TALK TO YOU?

  I have asked that they discuss with me about the DOM,  they refuse.  I asked that they discuss with me about Prabhupad's 1974 TopMost Urgent written order,  and they have refused.    For most of us we have no GBC to go to. 

MOST OF US?

THE GBC IS ELECTED. THE POISONERS OF SP WHO CALL THEMSELVES GBC ARE NOT.

 They refuse to discuss with us major and pivotal issues. 

WHY SHOULD THEY?

THEY ARE NOT DEVOTEES OF KRISHNA, THEY ARE KAMSAS AND RAVANAS.

HAS THAT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU YET??

 The real issue is not Hrdayananda's falldowns,   it is the underlying rtvik/guru issue.    He should never have acted in post of initiating guru,  Srila Prabhupad only ever asked him to be Rtvik-Representative, Officiating Acharya.  That is ALL you will find written or spoken that Srila Prabhupad asked him to do.   It was the speculation of the GBC that after Srila Prabhupad depart that the Rtviks become regular gurus,   but,  there is no written or spoken statement by Srila Prabhupad where he has explicitly stated this.  And, then they REFUSE -  completely and totally -  to discuss the issue any further AT ALL with any of their god brothers,   period.  Either publicly or privately.  It is their obstinate, cold, and offensive attitude that has created an atmosphere where the only avenue many of us have is to take our issues to the public forums.

IF YOU KILLED SOMEONE TO STEAL THEIR MONEY AND THEIR LAND, WOULD YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THE MATTER WITH THAT PERSON'S ACTUAL LEGITIMATE HEIRS?

IF YOU READ MORE DETECTIVE STORIES, YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT THE THIEVES AND MURDERERS SELDOM (IF EVER) HOB NOB WITH THE CHILDREN AND HEIRS OF THOSE THAT THEY KILL AND ROB.

WOULD YOU?

Last year I made a video rebuttal to a video lecture given by Hrdayananda that was published on the internet. In my rebuttal i pointed out that Hd-gosvami was selectively rejecting aspects of Prabhupad's teachings.   I sent links to the video to 500 devotees, including most of the GBC.   I was also criticized by a handful why I did not privately discuss with the GBC first,   why i went public with such an issue

GOOD OLD CATHOLIC CHURCH TECHNIQUE!.....

"TALK TO US FIRST...AND WE WILL MAKE IT GO AWAY"!

SP WANTE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY IN ALL ISKCON MATTERS...TO THE EXTEN THAT HE WANTED THE TEMPLE TREASURER TO READ THE ACCOUNTS OF THE TEMPLE AND THE SPECIFIC USES FOR SPECIFIC DONATIONS CLEARLY EXPLAINED TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO MIGHT COME UP TO HEAR HIM SPEAK.....INCLUDING THE IRS, STRANGERS, KARMIIS, DEMONS, WHAT TO SPEAK OF DEVOTEES.

WHEN I PROPOSED THAT TO RAMESHWAR BACK IN THE DAY THAT WE WERE ACCUSED OF BEING A CULT AND USING MONEY FOR ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL PURPOSES, HE RESPONDED TO ME....

"WE CAN'T DO THAT"!

   But, because they have refused, for 12 years, after at least 12 attempts, to discuss with me on the rtvik issue,  I have no GBC to go to. 

THE GBC BEGINS WHEN THEY ARE ELECTED. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS VERY SIMPLE AND NON-COMPLICATED POINT. 

A NON-ELECTED SO-CALLED GBC IS NO MORE THAN AN ENEMY OF SRILA PRABHUPADA, AND HAS NO SPIRITUAL STANDING ANYWHERE, AND CERTAINLY IS NOT THE RIGHT PERSON TO "GO TO".   

It must be noted that most of the devotees are writing about incidents that took place years ago,   and the GBC has been informed of the more serious issues for many years,  and never took any action.

WHAT GBC?.....WAS THERE AN ELECTION WHEN I WAS NOT LOOKING?

ONE NANOSECOND AFTER SP DEPARTED IN 1977, THE GBC CEASED TO EXIST. AND THEY STILL DO NOT EXIST. SP RESERVED THE RIGHT TO APPOINT ALL THE GBC UP TO HIS DEPARTURE. AFTER THAT TIME, THE GBC WAS TO BE ELECTED BY THE TEMPLE PRESIDENTS ACCORDING TO THE DOM. (1974 LETTER)

WHY DISCUSS A "GBC" THAT ACTUALLY DOES NOT EXIST AS SUCH? I DO NOT, AND I REQUEST THAT EVERYONE GIVE UP THAT DESIGNATION OF "GBC" UNTIL DOM ELECTIONS ARE HELD.

IT WILL KEEP OUR HEADS FROM GETTING MUSHY, AND WILL REDUCE OUR TENDENCIES TO WHIMPER ABOUT "GBC THIS" AND "GBC THAT".

   I think they must have felt there was too little evidence, 

ARE YOU KIDDING?.....YOU LACKED DEMOGRAPHIC POWER AND A LARGE FOLLOWING OF LIFE MEMBERS WITH MONEY!

RETURN WITH BOTH OF THOSE THINGS, AND YOU WILL FIND THEM LISTENING VERY CAREFULLY AS THEY RUN OUT THE DOOR FLEEING FOR THEIR LIVES!

or that those who made complaints were just fault-finders and so they ignored the complaints and never took action. 

HOW PIOUS OF THEM!

  Again, it is due to their inactions, or improper actions, that have forced everyone to go public.  But, again, take note that most of them are discussing issues that took place years ago.   It isn't that these devotees never said a word to anyone in all those years and that the first place they made their complaint was in public.  The GBC has heard about these issues for years and years,   and they are the ones who are to blame for all of us going public. 

THOSE WHO POISONED SP OR PROFITED FROM HIS POISONING KNOW THE ISSUES VERY CLEARLY, HAVE CONSIDERED THE DOM VERY CAREFULLY, AND HAVE PREPARED ALL DEFENSES THAT THEY CAN MUSTER WITH MONEY RESOURCES, BRAINWASHED FOLLOWERS AND A BANK OF LAWYERS TO PREVENT THE TOPIC OF THE DOM OR THE POISON ISSUE FROM EVERY EMERGING IF THEY CAN HELP IT.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE TO WHOM YOU WENT WITH "STRAW IN MOUTH" HOPING FOR A "CHANGE OF HEART".

THEY ARE A DANGEROUS CREW OF CAREER CRIMINALS, AND ARE NOT PROPER PARTNERS FOR DEBATE.

THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT ALL THE ISSUES ARE, THAT THEY ARE IN THE WRONG, AND THEY DO NOT CARE. 

WERE YOU UNAWARE OF THAT?

Regarding my Beware of Darkness,  Beware of Maya videos I made last year (about Hrdaya) the GBC contacted me after they became aware of them and asked me for a transcript.  In doing so I informed them I would be avaiable for further discussion on the issues, and I asked that they kindly keep me informed of what actions or conclusions the GBC made regarding this.   They never corresponded with me any further. 

I AM SURE THAT THEY CONTACTED THEIR BANK OF ATTORNEYS, AND HAD DETAILED MEETINGS ON HOW TO CONTROL THE DAMAGE FROM YOUR VIDEOS, AND IF THAT MIGHT LEAK INTO THE AWARENESS OF THE INDIANS WHO SUPPLY THEM WITH THEIR ENDLESS MONEY RESOURCES.

I HOPE YOU DO NOT THINK THAT YOU WERE BEING IGNORED. I ASSURE YOU THAT THEY PROBABLY SPENT HUNDREDS OF HOURS ASSESSING WHAT SORT OF DANGER YOU POSED TO THE IMAGE THAT THEY SELL OF THEMSELVES AS REPRESENTATIVES OF ISKCON.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR VIDEOS UNDOUBTEDLY USED UP A LOT OF THEIR 'DAMAGE CONTROL" TIME AND BUDGET.

 They never asked for my on-going input,   nor did they keep me informed of any decisions or actions they made.   NOTHING. 

FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, IT IS YOU, NOT HRIDAYANDANDA WHO IS THE DANGEROUS PERSON TO THEIR STRUCTURE. THEY ALREADY KNOW EACH AND EVERY CRIME AND SIN THAT EACH OF THEM HAS COMMITTED.

THEY KEEP A VERY CLEAR RECORD OF THE "BLACKMAIL AND EXTORTION"  THEY CAN WIELD AS LEVERAGE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

THAT IS WHERE THEY PUT THEIR EFFORT.

AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED, APPARENTLY THEY CONSIDERED THAT YOUR VIDEOS WERE NOT ENOUGH DANGER TO THEM, SO YOU WERE IGNORED.

   Yet, most of them, the more senior members, know me very well, personally.   What a way to treat a god brother.

SO, YOU ADMIT THAT YOU ARE "PALS" WITH THE POISONERS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA, AND THE ENEMIES OF THE DOM?...AND EVEN CALL THEM "GOD BROTHERS"?

WHY?

BECAUSE OF THE OLD "GLORY DAYS" WHEN YOU JOINED ISKCON, AND THOUGHT THAT THESE SAME PEOPLE WHO SUPPRESSED THE DOM AND POISONED SP WERE WONDERFUL SPIRITUAL LEADERS?

THEY WERE NEVER DIFFERENT THAN THEY ARE NOW........IT IS TIME TO REALIZE THAT OUR ADORATION OF SUCH MEN WAS OUR BIGGEST MISTAKE, AND IT IS OUR ADORATION OF SUCH MEN THAT GAVE THEM THE BROAD AND WIDE OPEN WINDOW TO ADMINISTER POISON TO SP, WHILE WE STOOD IN OUR VARIOUS ZONES CHANTING....

"JAI PRABHU, ALL GLORIES TO YOUR SERVICE, PRABHU"

THEIR ACTUAL "SERVICE" WAS TO CREAT THE DOM-LESS  CORRUPTED ISKCON IN WHICH WE LIVE TODAY.

TIME TO GATHER THE MASSES, INFORM THEM OF THE DOM, KICK THE "EVIL DOERS" OUT!

Take your complaints to the GBC and ask them to discuss the real underlying issues with us.

THERE IS NO GBC

  The real issues with Hrdaya is and the GBC 

THERE IS NO GBC

They have presented him as someone he is not.  Prabhupad only ever asked him to be Rtvik -  he never appointed him as successor Acharya.  

Those who want to be gurus,  want to take disciples,    Do So   in their own Ashrams,   but, stop using Prabhupad's ashrams and the resources of his ashrams for promoting themselves and collecting dakshin and followers for themselves.  Do so in their own separate ashrams.  Not in my guru's ashram.  

NICE IDEA. DO YOU THINK THE GBC WILL AGREE?

Your eternal servant,

NNV das

[DHARMA]

Hare Krsna!   Thanks!  I cannot judge on great souls such as Hrdayananda Maharaja.  But, I believe he could set up one of his preaching centers out here by New Talavan somewhere.  Perhaps the temple management could give them a lifetime lease.  However, there is inexpensive property in the area if they don't like the big farm itself.  They just need to work it all out with the board of directors here.    Otherwise, we only have the version of one devotee.  I am not qualfied to judge and I would assume the GBC and other senior devotees have ideas on how to handle the whole thing.  Since Srila Prabhupada made Krsna consciousness international there has arisen difficulties over cultural differences worldwide.  These cultural differences apparently create difficulties for many devotees.

Your servant in Krsna consciousness, Citraketu dasa

Provided by: ---DHARMA---   --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Sri Radha <shar...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sri Radha <shar...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Hridayananda's Falldowns

To: "DHARMA" <spro...@yahoo.com> Cc: pg1...@netzero.com, alexandre...@yahoo.ca, amey...@16108.com, alice...@att.net, bhag...@hotmail.com, bhoj...@yahoo.com, has...@hotmail.com, dam...@vedatherapy.com, istag...@googlegroups.com, krsna...@yahoo.com, laurat...@hotmail.com, lal...@gmail.com, shutup...@hotmail.com, anad...@yahoo.com, nimai...@yahoo.com, ange...@yahoo.com, roupamanja...@gmail.com, sukad...@yahoo.com, in...@farmeducation.org, vmorel...@yahoo.com, william...@jagannatha.com, yasod...@yahoo.com, bvsa...@gmail.com, harek...@krishna.org, "radha-govinda" <mv...@yahoo.com>, mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk, makha...@verizon.net, zak...@earthlink.net, prtha_d...@hotmail.com, ramr...@aol.com, royric...@yahoo.com, krishn...@gmail.com, taru...@yahoo.com, visho...@yahoo.com, visv...@hotmail.com, spirit...@msn.com, markm...@yahoo.com, fallenf...@yahoo.com, jeff...@yahoo.com, mahar...@hotmail.com, bhaktat...@yahoo.com, dasd...@aol.com, deshpa...@yahoo.com, wzo...@yahoo.com, baba...@aol.com, gaur...@aol.com, jiva...@yahoo.com, pss...@juno.com, sunil...@yahoo.com, madh...@yahoo.com, mahadh...@gmail.com, mahak...@yahoo.com, lak...@webtv.net, "Shyama Priya" <sweetgras...@hotmail.com> Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 3:18 PM This is true, one shouldn't parade such information around like a tabloid. However, any wrongdoing should be acknowledged and it should be rectified in an honorable way. Regarding persons in high positions, it is wrong to just sweep any misdeeds under the rug. They have a responsibility to their disciples and to all the devotees, this means being honest. People still have a right to see the truth if it's ugly or not.

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