Fw: Damaghosa das re the eternal --guru param para

[Joseph Langevin]

For immediate release 

From: "DasD...@aol.com" <DasD...@aol.com>
Subject: the eternal --guru param para

Hare Krsna to all

Obeisances

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

 

I was just reading the following few pages today in the Make Vrndavana booklet comprised entirely of conversations with Srila Prabhupada.

The below four quotes are only within a few pages of this book. There is so much information in Prabhupadas statements. These are about guru tattva... Please read

Hare Krsna

Damaghosa das

--------------------------------

 

1)   750203mw.haw                Conversations                371399/530501
Srila Prabhupada: Sarva-sastre kaya, lava-matra sadhu-sange sarva-siddhi
haya. For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my
spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more.
It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction,
that's all, although I was a grhastha.

----------------------

So in the above statement by Srila Prabhupada we hear him saying he was with or heard his guru maharaj not more than ten times, maybe less than ten times..

So how was Srila Prabhupada getting instructions (DAILY) from his guru? Over a span of many years (he met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj around 1920, and he passed away in 1935. So over the course of 15 years he was with him less than 10 times. So if you want to average it out, to less than once a year assuming ten meetings of the two personalities.  So in those few short times, he got some instructions, the main one we know was "if you get money print books", and the other one was "preach to the english speaking people of the world, it will do good to you and them". And I am sure there were a few more..

 

So my point here is this: How was Srila Prabhupada getting daily instruction, guidance, inspiration, etc from a guru he only met less than once a year?? Could you even run a mundane family/business/temple on one instruction a year? No of course not. It takes thousands...

And the instructions Prabhupada told us he got were mainly only the above two? Hardly much information for starting a world wide organization one would think? Where did all the extreme details about Krsna Consciousness come from that you will find in Srila Prabhupadas books  ?? Did he just pull these out of the air? Concoct them?
And what about getting guidance AFTER Bhaktisiddhanta maharaj left his body?This is when he wrote his books.

Everyone knows, Prabhupada's books and purports are his "devotional ecstasies" and they came from Lord Krsna thru the mercy of his guru maharaj Bhaktisiddhanta Maharj-WHOM HE ONLY MET LESS THAN ONCE A YEAR. 

So this whole idea of needing a "LIVING GURU" is rubbish. What is "living" is not the physcial bodybut the spiritual/vani/instructions which comes thru that body.

 

"Vibration, what we have heard from the spiritual master-that is living"-lecture 1/13/69LA

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

2)   750203mw.haw                Conversations                371412/530501
Devotee (1): We can understand all of your instructions simply by
reading your books.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Anyway, follow the instruction. That is required.
Follow the instruction. Wherever you remain, it doesn't matter. You
are secure. Follow the instruction. Then you are secure anywhere. It
doesn't matter. Just like I told you that I saw my Guru Maharaja not
more than ten days in my life, but I followed his instruction. I was a
grhastha, I never lived with the Matha, in the temple. It is
practical. So many Godbrothers recommended that "He should be in
charge in this Bombay temple, this, that, that..." Guru Maharaja said,
"Yes, better he lives outside. That is good, and he will do what is
needed in due course of time."
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Srila Prabhupada: He said like that. I could not understand at that time
what does he expect. Of course, I knew that he wanted me to preach.
Yasodanandana: I think you have done this in grand style.
Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupada! Haribol!

....................

 

So here in the above conversation, Srila Prabhupada tells us he was not living with Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj, nor in any Gaudiya matha temple. Rather he lived in his own grhastha ashram far far away from the physcial presence of his guru maharaj.

 

He said,. "wherever you remain, it doesn't matter. You are secure."  ..."It is practical"

 

Why doesnt it matter?

 

Because as long as you follow the instructions of your guru maharaj, you are SECURE.

You could be living in a "temple", not following guru maharaj, and then you would NOT be secure. So physicality has nothing to do with spiritual life.

It is following the orders of the guru which are the life force or active principle.

 

 

How to live with and hear the spiritual master....

 

SB 4.28.47
  However, the disciple and spiritual master are never
separated because the spiritual master always keeps company with the
disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of
the spiritual master. This is called the association of vani (words).
physical presence is called vapuh. As long as the spiritual master is
physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the
spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer
physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the
spiritual master.

 

how NOT to live with the spiritual master-even in his temple...

 

750203mw.haw                Conversations               
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, is it faster if one lives in the temple
and goes on the sankirtana party. Is it faster?
Srila Prabhupada: That depends on him. Even in the temple, if his mind is in
a different subject matter, then how it will help him?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

3)....Jayatirtha: So the purpose of having the Society is to show the
devotees how they can always be twenty-four hours engaged according to
your instruction.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by
seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that
a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There
should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC.
They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is
beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At
least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes,
then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then
it is fool's paradise.

-------------------------------

In this conversation with Srila Prabhupada he is saying that if one devotee is deficient in some way,then the others, because they are following guru, then by their association and example the deficient devotee can be rectified.

 

This is the basic ritvik system in a nutshell. The ritvik system goes way beyond initiations.  Srila Prabhupada expected his disciples to hear what he said, practice it in their own lives, and then teach it to all others. This is basically called a ritvik priest, or one who performs rituals, or shows how the orders of the Acarya and Supreme Personality of Godhead are to be implemented.

 

And this is how the movement went on while Prabhupada was physically here with us.  The TP or local GBC , meeting somewhere with Srila Prabhupada or getting a letter from  him, would pass down the orders of Srila Prabhupada , and all the local rank and file devotees would follow those instructions. And the movement grew in leaps and bounds because the orders were being carried out.

Prabhupada was not physically present simultaneously in all  of his 108 temples. But he was present simultaneously by his  murti, his orders, his instructions and his books.

Prabhupada appointed his leaders to preach in various places throughout the world. They attracted followers who became devotees themselves, and these new devotees preached to others and the system continued in this way until he left the planet. 90% it is said of them, never physically met Srila Prabhupada, and yet they all were and still are making spiritual advancement, they all were following the orders of guru, therefore they all were situated in spiritual life-without Prabhupada even stepping a foot into their temples.

 

These  simple non corporal concepts of spiritual life, it seems, are way beyond the minds of mundane men and women, who are presently posing as leaders and devotees, otherwise we wouldn't be having the problem we are having today. 

--------------------------------------

4) 750716pc.sf                 Conversations                392307/530501
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of Guru
Maharaja? I think... Here is.

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750212rc.mex                Conversations                371869/530501
Guest (2): ...to choose a successor.
Srila Prabhupada: It is already successful. Genuine thing is always success.
Gold is gold. If somebody is fortunate, he can purchase gold, but gold
remains gold. If somebody purchases and somebody does not, it doesn't
matter. Gold is gold. So future, gold future is always the same as it
is at present--if it is gold. If it is something glittering, that is
another thing.
Guest (4): But there must be somebody, you know, needed to handle the
thing.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that we are creating. We are creating these devotees
who will handle.
Hanuman: One thing he's saying, this gentleman, and I would like to
know, is your successor named or your successor will...
Srila Prabhupada: My success is always there. Yes. Just like the sun is
there always. It may come before your vision or not. The sun is there.
But if you are fortunate, you come before the sun. Otherwise you
remain in darkness. Sun is open to everyone. Our Krsna consciousness
movement--Krsna is open to everyone. But if you are fortunate, you
come to the light. If you are unfortunate, do not. That is your
choice.

----------------

So these two conversations are very interesting. I have always wondered why Prabhupada explained his "successor" as the "Sun" or in the first conversation  where he says for who is successor, his guru maharaj is always there. In both cases, he never said he would name anyone as successor. He did say that "we are creating these devotees who will handle" ..

 

Handling an organization is totally different than being its "LEADER", whom he said "we have no such thing as here is next leader". So it is clear from these two conversations that Srila Prabhupada is pointing the questioners to the eternal param para (the Sun) of eternally liberated acaryas as the "successors to the Hare Krsna movement. These Acaryas will keep the message of Bhagavad gita intact, because they, just like the Sun is always visible-

"IF you are fortunate."

 

Hare Krsna

your humble servant

Damaghosa das

---

[Ron P Conroy]

Cyvana swami wh has done ritvik initiation lives in Wiliston FL. He was in Africa 8 years and spent a lot of time with Srila Prabhupada. He and others were doing ritvik initiation on behalf  Srila Prabhupada when he was physically with them. 

So they naturally asked Srila Prabhupada, " what should we do regarding initiations when you are no longer physically

present ?"   Srila Prabhupada said,"same thing".    Cyvana swami can be contacted at campg...@gmail.com . camp garuda is also a web site with phone number . 

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[Joseph Langevin]