GBC/BA: Then and Now
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Using the following scale: Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good, and Excellent, here is how I rate the Governing Body Commission and the Bhaktivedanta Archives then and now:
1978 GBC: Poor
2010 GBC: Fair
1978 BA: Poor
2010 BA: Fair
What do the BA devotees need to do to improve their rating?:
1. Apologize for editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures.
2. Apologize for taking so long to transfer ALL of Srila Prabhupada's audio recordings to a high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital format.
3. Start making the high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital archive copies available as free downloads on the Internet.
4. Stop being distracted from archiving by working on a new version of the VedaBase and a new version of the MP3 Library. (The ISKCON Bangalore devotees, for example, could come up with a much better version of the VedaBase, and Madhudvisa Prabhu, the creator of the original MP3 library could, for example, be engaged in creating the new version also.)
Anyone else?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/)
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
From: Pratyatosa Dasa (ACBSP) <praty...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:33 AM
Subject: The "New Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry" Is Bogus
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
(The "New Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry" Is Bogus)
by Pratyatosa Dasa (ACBSP)
Last night, I asked my wife (Urmila Devi Dasi):
"... do you remember when the Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry numbering system was changed, so that you could no longer tell which tapes that we had and which we didn't? I remember you being very upset about it, and when you contacted them, instead of them apologizing for your inconvenience and giving you a cross-reference list, you were simply met with indifference and disrespectful sarcasm! Then you became even more upset, remember?"
I'm thinking that the year would have been 1977 or maybe a little later. 1977 was the year when Parama-rupa Dasa first started the "New Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry" (See http://bhaktivedantaarchives.blogspot.com/) which, IMHO, should be called the "Bogus Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry." Before I spent a few years complaining about it, he used to claim that he had started the one and only "Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry!" He even had a color brochure printed up which proclaimed this lie! Sometime during the 1980s, I saw this bogus brochure at the Bhaktivedanta Cultural Center in Detroit on a free travel brochure rack. The rack was meant for the benefit of guests who had come to take a tour of the Auto Baron's "Fisher Mansion" (ISKCON Detroit). Needless to say, it made me, who had started the Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry in 1971 (I didn't actually give it that name until 1973), a little upset!
By the way, my GBC representative, when I started ISKCON's first audio cassette tape subscription service in New York City (the ISKCON temple on Henry Street in Brooklyn) in 1971, was Rupanuga Prabhu, and I will be forever grateful for the whole-hearted support that he gave to this project. We all owe him a debt of gratitude for his very intelligent foresight in supporting this very important pioneering transcendental preaching project.
Before Parama-rupa took over the BTM from Krsnakanti Prabhu, no lecture by Srila Prabhupada had ever been edited. As far as I'm concerned, this is just common sense. "You don't edit the transcendental sound vibration of the pure devotee of the Lord!" But in addition to this common sense realization, Srila Prabhupada had specifically told Krsnakanti, in 1972, "My classes must be distributed unedited or not at all." (paraphrased) A few seconds after Krsnakanti was told this, in person by Srila Prabhupada, he ran down the stairs from Srila Prabhupada's quarters to his Golden Avatar Productions recording studio, and relayed the order to me, word-for-word!
The numbering system that I had started in 1971 and which Krsnakanti had faithfully continued was ideal, and if Parama-rupa had refraining from concocting the completely insane system that they are still using today, then they wouldn't be having the problem of how to number the tapes with the time and/or place unknown. Through several incarnations of the Archive's MP3 CD-ROM set, they've had only one MP3 with the time and place unknown:
000000LE.UN
... obviously because their crazy numbering system only allows for one!
Parama-rupa never asked my advice, and from what Krsnakanti Prabhu has told me, I get the feeling that he was never consulted either. I remember Krsnakanti speaking about what was being done by the "New BTM," such as more than doubling the prices, with disgust.
Here's another example of their idiocy:
710720LE.LA
The trouble is, Srila Prabhupada and I were in New York, not Los Angeles! Parama-rupa got the date right, but he got the city wrong! There is no excuse for this because a few hours earlier I recorded a conversation that I had had with Srila Prabhupada in his quarters, and they got that one right:
710720RC.NY
They also got the next day's initiation lecture (when my daughter's future father-in-law, Srutakirti Prabhu was initiated) right!:
710721IN.NY
A simple computer program could have analyzed the list of MP3 file names and detected such an anomaly in a spit second, but obviously, Parama-rupa never bothered to do this.
If only he had stuck to the numbering system that I had started in New York in 1971, the Archives would not be having such ridiculous problems today. For example, using my numbering system we get:
NY71-1
This is a combination of the place, the year, and a sequence number. The place came first because this was the most important piece of information to the devotee. The devotee is the most interested in what Srila Prabhupada said in the temple that he was initiated in or the temple that he spent the most time living in. The next is the year. This is also very important to the devotee because he was initiated in a particular year and he lived in a particular temple in a particular year or series of years. This 6 character sequence narrows down the time and place very effectively, because Srila Prabhupada normally only visited a particular temple once in a particular year. The "1" is simply a sequence number. Therefore, the number means that it was the first recording of Srila Prabhupada in New York in 1971.
Suppose that the last tape in the series was NY71-22, and then, later on, another tape showed up, such as the conversation that I had with Srila Prabhupada on the 20th, which was recorded on cassette. No problem! The number would simply be NY71-23! There was no rule saying that the sequence numbers absolutely had to correspond to a chronological order! Perfectly logical and foolproof! A model of simplicity and efficiency!
If the time and place of a series of recordings has been lost, Then the number could be UNK00-1, UNK00-2, etc. If the city is known but the year is unknown, then why not use, for example, NY00-1, NY00-2, etc.? If the year was known, but the city was lost, then the numbers could be, for example, UNK67-1, UNK67-2, etc.
Krsnakanti took over the cassette tape subscription service from me in 1972, but then he got distracted by his weekly radio broadcast, the "Krishna Show," so he allowed it to diminish. Therefore, I took it over again in 1973, started calling it the Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry, computerized the subscription accounting, the printing of the cassette labels, and the printing of the shipping labels. Then I again turned it over to Krsnakanti who, this time, did a great job of keeping it going exactly the way in which I had set it up.
In early 1972, the GBC body passed a resolution authorizing Krsnakanti and I to do what we were doing. As far as I know, the GBC has never authorized the "New (Bogus) Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry" or the entire Bhaktivedanta Archives, for that matter, to do anything. Where is there such a resolution? It doesn't exist. Therefore, the "New BTM" is completely unauthorized and bogus, bogus, bogus!
A symptom of the unauthorized nature of this fiasco is the fact that the lectures were edited, which is the prime example of Parama-rupa's disobeying Srila Prabhupada's emphatic orders that his lectures be distributed unedited of not at all! Another symptom is the fact that Parama-rupa, being the uneducated bloke that he is, doesn't even know how to say the Word, "Atlanta!" He calls it "Alanta," thus embarrassing Srila Prabhpada with his ignorance for all the world to see! :-(
By the way, you can help! If you haven't already done so, please sign the petition!
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
I personally do not think anything I/we say will change your ideas. But I/we are trying.
> 1978 BA: Poor
1978 was when the Bhaktivedanta Archives started. The BBT mail order tape ministry was a different project altogether. (All MP3s and CDs are tape ministry. Archives collection is different and will come out all at once, in whatever format everyone wants, perhaps a variety.)
What was one of the first thing the BA did? Publish the letter books....
They digitized all of Prabhupada's books. The BBT did not have them in digital format. And released their in-house data base for tape transcriptions as well as the digitized books in the form of the VedaBase.
Your Servant
Nitya-Trpta d.d.
Now Parama-rupa will do the needful here.
> What do the BA devotees need to do to improve their rating?:
>
> 1. Apologize for editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures.
Parama-rupa:
We will gladly apologize on behalf of time, place, circumstances and sincerely
wish it did never have to happen. One thing however just for clarity... the new
BTM was run by BBT mail order and not the BA.
> 2. Apologize for taking so long to transfer ALL of Srila Prabhupada's audio
> recordings to a high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital
> format.
Parama-rupa:
Yes this has taken longer than we would have liked and we are sorry once again
for time, place and circumstance in this instant.
> 3. Start making the high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless
> digitalarchive copies available as free downloads on the Internet.
Parama-rupa:
This is one thing we intend to pursue once the archival process is complete.
> 4. Stop being distracted from archiving by working on a new version of the
> VedaBase and a new version of the MP3 Library.
Parama-rupa:
We were unaware that we were being distracted in making a new version of the
VedaBase. Maybe there is some confusion here. The VedaBase was and is made as
an in house aid to archiving. The fact that it is out there for sale was an
attempt to allow others to share in that technology and therefore the
information contained within. So the VedaBase in house is a dynamic process, if
and when the time and circumstances present themselves then we can again
consider releasing an upgrade. With Regard MP3, we are not making a new version
of the MP3 set until the archival process is complete. So please rest assured
the VedaBase and MP3 set are not getting in the way.
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
So I assume that he admits that editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures was a mistake, right?
I sincerely apologize for my offensives. I know that I, and some of the other members of this forum can get a little heavy at times, but our goals are all the same: to preserve, to protect and to distribute as far and wide as possible, Srila Prabhupada's priceless legacy.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
mark
You asked, "So I assume that he admits that editing Srila Prabhupada's
lectures was a
mistake, right?"
So I wonder, why would you assume that, when what he said does not
support your assumption at all? He said....
"We will gladly apologize on behalf of time, place, circumstances and
sincerely
wish it did never have to happen."
He wishes it didn't HAVE to happen?
In his statement he doesn't admit to any personal participation in the
decision to edit, no recognition of accountability.
It sort-of sounds like he is agreeing that the editing was a bad
thing.
But he does not apologize for personally doing anything. Instead he
apologizes on behalf of 3 others who we must deduce were directly
involved in the act of editing. 3 Prabhus named "time, place and
circumstance".
Parama Rupa dasa stating that it HAD to happen indicates that there
was a majority of Prabhus in support of the editing when they first
contemplated it. I wonder if he was as against it back then as he
claims to be now? If so, I wonder if he even put up a fight....
I also wonder if "time place and circumstance" asked Parama Rupa dasa
to apologize on their behalf? I would rather here it from them for it
to ring of "sincerety".
Maybe Parama Rupa dasa should try his very best to try and remove them
from their position of influence at the archives, and hire someone
else to do the thinking around there, before they commit any more
offenses at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada.
In the meantime, I would actually be curious to know if Parama Rupa
assisted these others in any way in the editing process, whether the
concept phase or execution phase, and if so if he feels any remorse or
regret worth mentioning in an apology type of thingy.
Hare Krsna
B.Mark
On Apr 6, 3:28 pm, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mother Nitya-Trpta Prabhu, this is certainly a giant leap in the right
> direction. I feel very much humbled and gratified by Parama-rupa Prabhu's
> heartfelt response.
>
> So I assume that he admits that editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures was a
> mistake, right?
>
> I sincerely apologize for my offensives. I know that I, and some of the
> other members of this forum can get a little heavy at times, but our goals
> are all the same: to preserve, to protect and to distribute as far and wide
> as possible, Srila Prabhupada's priceless legacy.
>
> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/86aa6c39bce91986?hl=en
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
---------- Forwarded (with permission) ----------
From: Nitya-Trpta <nitya-tr...@pamho.net>
Date: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:01 PM
Subject: Reply from Parama-rupa
To: Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com>
.
.
.
“So I assume that he admits that editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures was a mistake, right?”
You and I have had this discussion before about the new BTM and in those discussions I have made it clear that I was never told about Srila Prabhupada’s comment about editing until you contacted me back in the late 1990’s. So it would be a little unfair to say that I made a mistake when I was told by the BBT mail order department to make the programs fit a time frame (cassette length) because of the cost factor and only having a few subscribers. If you are asking do I wish that I didn’t have to edit then the answer is “YES”.
.
.
.
Respectfully yours
Parama-rupa dasa
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
You, IMHO, have again analyzed the situation correctly.
However, to get even one of the Bhaktivedanta Archives founders/board members to admit that a mistake was made and that he's sorry that it happened is a huge step in the right direction, don't you agree?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
mark
was ignorant of the relevant Guru tattva siddhanta (no rascal
editing), his leaders gave unlawful orders but not knowing the law, he
transgressed it.
To bad he couldn't hear his conscience screaming bloody murder.
Since the mentality of the members of the "Board" of the BA, BBT,
BBTi, and Corporate Iskcon has not changed over the years, we can be
most assured that more dubious directives will be issued which Parama
Rupa dasa will "have to" follow if he is to insure that he is allowed
to continue to participate in the archival process at the pleasure of
his masters.
On Apr 6, 9:03 pm, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is an excerpt from a forwarded email which specifically pertains to
> this thread. The entire email may be viewed here:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/86aa6c39bce91986?hl=en
>
> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
> ---------- Forwarded (with permission) ----------
> From: Nitya-Trpta <nitya-trpta.ac...@pamho.net>
> Date: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:01 PM
> Subject: Reply from Parama-rupa
> To: Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <pratyat...@gmail.com>
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Now you are saying that you edited Srila Prabhupada's lectures out of ignorance of Srila Prabhupada's unequivical, emphatic instructions to Krsnakanti Prabhu on this matter ("Distribute my lectures unedited or not at all!"). Like I said before, the thought of editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures in any way had never even crossed my mind. The only reason that Krsnakanti had asked Srila Prabhupada this question is because he thought that it might be a good idea to use excerpts from Srila Prabhupada's lectures on his weekly radio show, "The Krishna Show." Other than that, I'm sure that the thought had never crossed his mind either. He never, ever suggested to me that we edit Srila Prabhupada's lectures in any way to make them easier to fit onto standard length cassettes!
For years, I have been giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you edited the lectures out of ignorance, but I don't recall you ever telling me this before. What you have told us yesterday is news to me.
But, it is definitely a step in the right direction. At least you now admit that editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures was a mistake, and that you are the one who edited them. However, you still have not admitted that you yourself have made any mistakes.
You took over the Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry from Krsnakanti Prabhu in 1977. After that, the two of you were in Los Angeles together for several years. Did it ever cross your mind even for one second that that maybe, just maybe, you should ask Krsnakanti what the rules are?
You could have asked me also. I was always available by telephone, and like I said before, my wife even called the Archives once, complaining about the numbering system having been changed to your new, "unauthorized concoction" of a numbering system. Just out of curiosity, what year was that new numbering system started?
The editing of Srila Prabhupada's lectures was a mistake, not only because it is contrary to Srila Prabhupada's crystal clear instructions on the matter, but also, as I pointed out in an article that I wrote more than 12 years ago, it was done incompetently! So incompetently, in fact, that it even, in some instances, makes Srila Prabhupada look foolish! Here is an excerpt from that article which serves to illustrate my point:
The worst thing about this practice is that sometimes the editing makes Srila Prabhupada look foolish, such as the following lecture given in Los Angeles on September 25th, 1972:
*********************** Begin copied text **********************
What is that verse? Can anyone cite? ksatriya-rudhira-maye
jagad-apagata-papam...
********************** End of copied text **********************
Obviously, Srila Prabhupada would have paused after saying "Can anyone cite?", waiting to see if any of his disciples could remember the verse that he was referring to, but on the CD, the pause has been edited out! Srila Prabhupada seems to ask the question and then, without a moments delay, recite the verse himself! Is this not doing Srila Prabhupada a very great disservice by making him look foolish?
In any case, the CDs especially have been so extensively and incompetently edited that, IMHO, their sale should immediately be halted, and all of the CDs which have already been sold should be recalled, offering a full refund, including shipping costs, to anyone who wants to return them!
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa