Bathing Naked

[Pratyatosa]

Both. The following is from the Pancaratra-Pradipa. The quote is in VedaBase 2003:

• Do not bathe naked. Wear a kaupena or a cloth with a tail tucked in at the back (kaccha). This shows respect to the personality of the water and shows that one recognizes bathing to be a sacred act. One should be particularly careful to observe this injunction when bathing in a river or other public place.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi, http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What? Quotes please! are you talking communal bathing or private in a bathroom. Context would be important. 

This just for clarity and not for fighting. But what is the relevance considering the line of discussion at the moment?

RCB

[Bhaktatraveler]

I thought I have read all of Srila Prabhupada's books. I do not recognize the title below. Is there another name it was published under? I can't find it on Prabhupadabooks.com

And it does say in public, though a stipulation of respecting water is given.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 11:06:33 AM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Bathing Naked

[Pratyatosa]

I think that it's also known as the official ISKCON deity worship manual, and that Srila Prabhupada ordered that it be followed.

I was in LA in 1972 when Srila Prabhupada ordered that this bathing naked nonsense should immediately stop, so from then on, we either bathed wearing brahmin underwear, or better yet, a gamcha (loin cloth).

I was thinking about creating a web page on how to be chaste while taking an Ayurvedic oil bath without getting oil on any clothing, including on a gamcha (the oil is hard to wash out).

BTW, Caturbahu Prabhu, name-calling is against forum policy. No more name-calling, OK?

Ys, Ptd

[mark]

Does that include you calling Caturbahu das Riffraff? Or only when he
calls names?

On Jun 28, 11:42 am, Pratyatosa <pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that it's also known as the official ISKCON deity worship manual,
> and that Srila Prabhupada ordered that it be followed.
>
> I was in LA in 1972 when Srila Prabhupada ordered that this bathing naked
> nonsense should immediately stop, so from then on, we either bathed wearing
> brahmin underwear, or better yet, a gamcha (loin cloth).
>
> I was thinking about creating a web page on how to be chaste while taking an
> Ayurvedic oil bath without getting oil on any clothing, including on a
> gamcha (the oil is hard to wash out).
>
> BTW, Caturbahu Prabhu, name-calling is against forum policy. No more
> name-calling, OK?
>
> Ys, Ptd
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Bhaktatraveler

> <bhaktatrave...@yahoo.com>wrote:

[Pratyatosa]

Well, you caught me red-handed, Bhakta Mark Prabhu. Could I use "giving him a taste of his own medicine as an excuse?"  :-)

Please forgive me, Caturbahu Prabhu. I won't call you any more ill names.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

I do not necessarily disbelieve you, but when i change a thing or add something, I like to SEE that Srila Prabhupada has said it. Not a reflection of another's vapu experience. 

I'm a vani kind of guy.

What name calling did I do on the forum? And why is it always me and no one else. I'm open game but everyone else is off limits because they are devotees and I'm horse sh*t?

If I did make that mistake on the forum and you show me, I will do as I always do and attempt to correct it. Because that is how good I am!

Yes, today you have a pissed off RCB

Hare Krsna

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 11:42:48 AM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

[Bhaktatraveler]

I can take a licking and keep on ticking, have for all my yrs with you boys.

And no you can not use a taste of my own medicine, or your position becomes weak.

Do you have a quote from Prabhupada's vani about the naked thing?

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 11:58:40 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

[Pratyatosa]

All of the devotees who were in ISKCON LA at that time would know about Srila Prabhupada's order to stop bathing naked. How many witnesses do you require in order to be convinced?

[Bhaktatraveler]

Show the vani and I'm good. I care squat for "Prabhupada says" been there done that!

And your the only witness I've seen/heard so far. Is there a written paper? A directive? Then I say small stuff , let us get back to the elephant in the room.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 12:50:54 PM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

[Pratyatosa]

Sometimes "common sense" isn't good enough. I should have sent this to the entire email list in the first place:

[Pratyatosa]

Here is a reply to my question "Did Srila Prabhupada EVER bathe naked?" from Bhavananda Prabhu. If anyone would know, he would.

Of course, disciples of Srila Prabhupada who disobey Srila Prabhupada's intructions by bathing naked, try to rationalize it in some way.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi, http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bhavananda (das) ACBSP <Bhavanan...@pamho.net>
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 8:10 AM
Subject: Dear Bhavananda Prabhu, ...
To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>

Never that I know of. I think it highly unlikely that he ever did. He was
very modest and schooled in Vaisnava culture.

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

... Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Did Srila Prabhupada EVER bathe naked?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Srutakirti (das) ACBSP (Bushey, Herts - UK) <Srutakir...@pamho.net> wrote:

Don't want to cause any controversy but when Srila Prabhupada bathed in a
public area he would do so in his gamcha. When he was in his private bath in
his quarters he did not. As he often said, Krishna Consciousness is common
sense.

your servant, Srutakirti das

[Bhaktatraveler]

What about Srutakirti's memory of this? Is it superseded by Bhav's? Isn't Bhavananda a known deviant? And Srutakirti isn't!

If all we have is devotee memories on the subject, then siddhanta is hard to come by.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: "Srutakirti (das) ACBSP (Bushey, Herts - UK)" <Srutakir...@pamho.net>
Cc: amey...@gmail.com; ange...@yahoo.com; bhaktat...@yahoo.com; cc...@yahoo.com; das...@streamyx.com; hanto...@hotmail.com; istag...@googlegroups.com; jay....@gmail.com; lak...@webtv.net; magf...@wowway.com; mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk; ma...@setmedic.com; markm...@yahoo.com; miloni...@yahoo.com; prabhupada...@pamho.net; pdhed...@yahoo.com; sudhras...@gmail.com; urdh...@aol.com; yasod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 8:27:47 AM
Subject: Re: Bathing Naked

[Pratyatosa]

What reason would Bhavananda Prabhu have to lie about this? Bhavananda was with Srila Prabhupada before and after Srutakirti Prabhu was Srila Prabhupada's personal servant. Who has spent more time living in India? Who, therefore, knows more about Vedic culture, and what Srila Prabhupada would and wouldn't do?

In addition, we have the diety worship manual, which Srila Prabhupada told us to follow:

• Do not bathe naked. Wear a kaupena or a cloth with a tail tucked in at the back (kaccha). This shows respect to the personality of the water and shows that one recognizes bathing to be a sacred act. One should be particularly careful to observe this injunction when bathing in a river or other public place.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

Why would anyone lie about anything? Motivation, even on a very personal, secretive level. I for one would not trust Bhav's as far as i can throw him. Srtakirti is not a bad person as far as i can tell, yes I've had some association with him in India and in his capacity as servent to Srila Prabhupada. He was there when i was Prabhupada's gaurd and gave a $300 cashmere blanket to Prabhupada because He was a little cold in Miami, winter 75'. I like him!

One should be particularly careful to observe this injunction when bathing in a river or other public place.

This would go nicely with what Srtakirti said.

Wasn't Hari Sauri servant after Srtakirti?

Hare Krsn

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Srutakirti (das) ACBSP (Bushey, Herts - UK)" <Srutakir...@pamho.net>; amey...@gmail.com; ange...@yahoo.com; cc...@yahoo.com; das...@streamyx.com; hanto...@hotmail.com; istag...@googlegroups.com; jay....@gmail.com; lak...@webtv.net; magf...@wowway.com; mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk; ma...@setmedic.com; markm...@yahoo.com; miloni...@yahoo.com; prabhupada...@pamho.net; pdhed...@yahoo.com; sudhras...@gmail.com; urdh...@aol.com; yasod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 9:56:01 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

[Pratyatosa]

We must be careful not to try to rationalize our own maya.

Srila Prabhupada was living at ISKCON Los Angeles in early 1972 and so was I. He ordered us to stop bathing naked. It's obviously a difficult habit to break, because after 6 years of setting the example, Srila Prabhupada finally had to simply order us to do it. We followed his example for everything else, so why not this? The answer: We were in maya! :-(

It's an easy instruction to follow, so why not follow it?

BTW, never bathing naked and always wearing brahmin underwear are two of the secrets for maintaining celibacy! :-)

Ys, Ptd

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Why would anyone lie about anything? Motivation, even on a very personal, secretive level. I for one would not trust Bhav's as far as i can throw him. Srtakirti is not a bad person as far as i can tell, yes I've had some association with him in India and in his capacity as servent to Srila Prabhupada. He was there when i was Prabhupada's gaurd and gave a $300 cashmere blanket to Prabhupada because He was a little cold in Miami, winter 75'. I like him!

One should be particularly careful to observe this injunction when bathing in a river or other public place.

This would go nicely with what Srtakirti said.

Wasn't Hari Sauri servant after Srutakirti?

Hare Krsna

RCB

[Bhaktatraveler]

That I'm not pure and therefore in "maya' isn't the point is it?

You have no recorded evidence, so I see no need to change an idea or activity on just a Prabhupada says. Srutakirti says one thing,  Bhav's is out in my book, but your testimony is taken as good. But now between you and Srutakirti I have two opposing versions.

It is a small thing, that at this moment that I see no need to embody in private yet.

As for copins, I never leave home without them!

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "Srutakirti (das) ACBSP (Bushey, Herts - UK)" <Srutakir...@pamho.net>; amey...@gmail.com; ange...@yahoo.com; cc...@yahoo.com; das...@streamyx.com; hanto...@hotmail.com; jay....@gmail.com; lak...@webtv.net; magf...@wowway.com; mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk; ma...@setmedic.com; markm...@yahoo.com; miloni...@yahoo.com; prabhupada...@pamho.net; pdhed...@yahoo.com; sudhras...@gmail.com; urdh...@aol.com; yasod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 10:40:36 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

[Pratyatosa]

Karandhara Prabhu would remember for sure. He was the GBC for LA at the time, and he also lived there. I overheard him discussing how to practically implement the big change.

Does anyone know his email address?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Here's another witness, Hansadutta Prabhu, who was with Srila Prabhupada long before Srutakirti Prabhu was Srila Prabhupada's personal servant:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <hansa...@rocketmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:35 PM
Subject:

Dear Pratyatosa , Obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. I personally never saw Prabhupada bathe Naked. In the Dharma shastras it is enjoined to not bathe naked, you are being observed by the sun, moon, air, fire, the ten directions etc.....

[Greg Jay]

Pratyatosa ji,

You seem to be in a state of denial.

Srutakirti already answered this question. He was Prabhupada personal servant.

So what if Bhavananda doesn't know.

I do not think it is such a big deal. Obviously bathing naked in public is rejected.

Why do you quote Pancaratra Pradipa? Is this a sastra for Rtviks? I thought you would quote only Srila Prabhupada.

How is the personality of water not disrespected when you pour him on you genitals?

So unless you are wearing waterproof underwear how is water not disrespected? Is it respectful to wash your feet? Mouth? Backside?

What about disrespecting the personality of water by passing stool and urine in a WC (Water Closet)?

This is also forbidden in the Vedic literature.

GKD

[Bhaktatraveler]

Well if someone was in attendance as to be in the bathroom at the same time as Prabhupada then it would make sense to be covered.

Nothing about private bathrooms is mention anywhere in your evidence.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "Srutakirti (das) ACBSP (Bushey, Herts - UK)" <Srutakir...@pamho.net>; amey...@gmail.com; ange...@yahoo.com; cc...@yahoo.com; das...@streamyx.com; hanto...@hotmail.com; jay....@gmail.com; lak...@webtv.net; magf...@wowway.com; mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk; ma...@setmedic.com; markm...@yahoo.com; miloni...@yahoo.com; prabhupada...@pamho.net; pdhed...@yahoo.com; sudhras...@gmail.com; urdh...@aol.com; yasod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 12:47:38 PM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

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[Greg Jay]

On Jun 30, 2010, at 3:56 AM, Pratyatosa wrote:

What reason would Bhavananda Prabhu have to lie about this? Bhavananda was with Srila Prabhupada before and after Srutakirti Prabhu was Srila Prabhupada's personal servant. Who has spent more time living in India? Who, therefore, knows more about Vedic culture, and what Srila Prabhupada would and wouldn't do?

In addition, we have the diety worship manual, which Srila Prabhupada told us to follow:

Srila Prabhupada never told us to follow Pancaratra Pradipa. He was shown Arcana Paddhati which was translated by Jayasacinandana because Pradyumna and Nitai failed to do that. That was a small book which Jayatirtha later published. Pancaratra Pradipa contains many speculations. If this is a Vedic rule then where is the Sanskrit quote?

No doubt the rules for bathing state that one should not bathe naked in front of others. However this offending the personality of water can't be maintained.

How does wearing a gumcha or kaupina stop water from going on one's genitals? It does not.

The only one who sees one's genitals while bathing privately is oneself.

What about passing stool and urine? Or having sex? In each of these activities the genitals are exposed. But not exposed to the public.

It's not possible to do any of these activities without exposing one's genitals. But the idea is not to expose oneself to others.

All these things are just common sense for those who have lived in India. By the way I have also lived in India and in communities of traditional Vaisnavas. Certainly they don't bathe naked in public. In private it is a different matter.

GKD

[Pratyatosa]

Here is unequivocal testimony from Hari Sauri Prabhu, who was Srila Prabhupada's personal servant after Srutakirti Prabhu:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP <Hari.Sau...@pamho.net>
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:55 PM
Subject: Dear Hari Sauri Prabhu, ...
To: Howard Charles Best <hbe...@gmail.com>

       Dear Pratyatosh prabhu,

       Please accept my humble obeisances _/\ò_. All glories to Srila
Prabhupada!

>

> Did Srila Prabhupada EVER bathe naked?

       Never. He always wore his gamsha and kaupina. After washing he would
wrap his towel around himself and then drop the gamsha and kaupina in the
bucket. He would then dry off, then tie his clean kaupina around his waist,
drop the towel and then tie up his kaupin. In other words, he was never
naked at any stage.

       Your humble servant,
       Hari-sauri dasa

[Greg Jay]

On Jun 30, 2010, at 4:40 AM, Pratyatosa wrote:

BTW, never bathing naked and always wearing brahmin underwear are two of the secrets for maintaining celibacy! :-)

Brought to you by Indian culture which has created the largest population in the world???? lol

No doubt wearing kaupina helps maintaining celibacy. Bathing naked in a private bathroom??? I doubt it. Where's the stats on that?

The most important factor in maintaining celibacy in between your ears not your legs!!!!!!

GKD

[Patrick Hedemark]

Thought you might appreciate this snippet from the Manu Samhita - which HDG Srila Prabhupada would occasionally refer to:   Manu Smriti - Laws of Manu Chapter 4 : Duties of the Brahmana Text 45: Let him not eat, dressed with one garment only; let him not bathe naked; let him not void urine on a road, on ashes, or in a cow-pen,     I am sure some might offer something along the lines of "Well..that is for the brahmana etc etc'.   However it would appear that Vaisnava - being higher than even the "brahmana" which is itself a "false prestige" only unless it assists us in arriving at the Vaisnava Conclusion - was the platform Srila Prabhupada was teaching and thus his apparent example in this respect is - appears to be - as usual - perfectly in harmony with the above quote from Manu Samhita.   P --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Bathing Naked To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[Greg Jay]

On Jun 30, 2010, at 6:47 AM, Pratyatosa wrote:

Dear Pratyatosa , Obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. I personally never saw Prabhupada bathe Naked. In the Dharma shastras it is enjoined to not bathe naked, you are being observed by the sun, moon, air, fire, the ten directions etc.....

Yes this applies to bating outdoors.

If this also applies to indoors in a private bathroom where there is air, and 10 directions, though I do not think the Sun, Moon or Fire are present in my shower stall, lol.

If this applies in my private shower stall, then it has to be asked "How can one pass urine or stool or have sex without exposing one's genitals to AIR, 10 directions, Sun, Moon, Fire, or as Pancaratra Pradipa puts it "the personality of water"?

Please explain the method of practically passing stool and urine and having sex without exposing genitals.

If you can't then accept that this instruction is meant in context to apply ONLY to bathing in public.

GKD

[Greg Jay]

Sure. No problem. Never naked at any stage in front of others.

I agree.

But again what is the need when not in front of others.

GKD

[Greg Jay]

Again I agree. (I agree with Pragosha prabhu.)

But what kind of bathing is Manu talking about?

In a bathroom from water from a pipe?

Or in a river, lake, etc or from a well?

There are many such minor rules.

There is no harm in following them.

But the people who follow them follow them consistently.

Stool and urine must be voided outside the house, at a particular distance from the residence. That is also a rule.

Teeth are to be cleaned with twigs of only certain trees, and only leaves on Ekadasi and other fasting days.

Those are also minor rules.

If you want to know all the minor rules I am happy to share them. However what is the point unless you follow them consistently?

Some things are obvious. Somethings can be followed and must be followed, others are adjustable and minor.

This is why Prabhupada spoke of Manu but never enforced Manu.

GKD

[Patrick Hedemark]

GKD prabhu   PAMHO AGTSP   We all agree....   Celibacy begins in the mind - with the "determination" to avoid all thoughts - even in dreams - the so-called pleasures of "liquid beauty".   However - the moment we make such a "determined" decision to renounce the poison of "liquid beauty" even in dreams - there are things we are guided to DO and NOT  DO.   For example - we are guided to avoid talking of sex life, talking alone with a woman who is not our wife including our mother, sister or daughter. We are also cautioned against gazing upon even a  wooden image of a naked female, what to speak of gazing upon sudra women who are scantily dressed! There are many other "Do's and Don't do's" in this respect and they are all just basic common sense in the end.   I am sure Pratyatosa prabhu is  merely offering one of the important benefits of following Srila Prabhuapda's  example in this regard to be employed in our efforts to avoid the silly and debilitating influence of the attraction to "liquid  beauty".   We all know were that sense gratification commences by contemplating their objects and then enduring the lust that follows - leading to disappointment, frustration, anger and blooping etc.   However you employ a logical fallacy here when you say

Brought to you by Indian culture which has created the largest population in the world???? lol

Varnasankara's increase has nothing to do with sex life per se. You do not seem to know what point you are trying to make here.   Yes the Indian Vedic Culture did flourish by "following" all of the Laws of Manu. That it no longer cherishes or acts in strict accordance to the Laws of Manu - does not diminish the value of its own esteemed provenance!   It being the oldest culture in the world - it has a head start on the rest of the planet in terms of procreation and is for a myriad of reasons -  chief of which is that it is the "playground" of the Lord in all of His playful "human like" pastimes - the most ADVANTAGEOUS place to take birth. Anyone BLESSED to take his birth in Bharatvarsa - is urged to take full advantage of the golden opportuntiy of birth there - with the same willingness to suffer the inconveniance of "overcrowding" with the same patient sense of good fortune shared by all of the "survivors" in the lifeboats that managed to make it off the Titanic. Bhagavad Gita asserts that those who surmise that birth in this world is due to sex only - celibate or otherwise - is sorely confused. "No doubt wearing kaupina helps maintaining celibacy". Here you are actually agreeing with his basic point.

"Bathing naked in a private bathroom??? I doubt it. Where's the stats on that?"

You are implying that he actually IS suggesting "bathing naked in a private bathroom" when he is clearly saying the opposite.   We don't  base ANYTHING on so-called STATISTICS. Where you gonna find such "stats" anyway. You gonna find them? What the Spiritual Master instructs by precept and  example - we simply accept and pass on to them whose faith is our equivalent.

"The most important factor in maintaining celibacy in between your ears not your legs!!!!!!"

This is the logical fallacy called "begging the question" - asking us to agree that Pratyatosa has actually stated or implied that celibacy begins between our legs!   He clearly did not say or imply that at all. He was merely describing a positive action - that  can serve our DETERMINATION to abstain from any interaction with "liquid beauty" in our thoughts, words or deeds. Just as Srila Prabhupada told us in Hawaii that "swimming" was helpful for maintaining strong legs and strong legs were helpful to the brahmacaris in remaining celibate - he was merely pointing  out a possible "fringe benefit" to following Srila Prabhuapda's example.   And once our determination kicks in - the power to remain actually celibate in thought words and deeds - finds its strength with our inviting Lord Krsna to "dance upon our tongues" whilst we serve Him by chanting Hare Krsna like kids callling for Mama!   This "HIGHER TASTE" is perfectly suited - to destroying our obnoxious attachment to any and all forms of "liquid beauty" in this world.   P         GKD

--

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Praghosa Prabhu, I agree with everything that you have said. Srila Prabhupada never, ever bathes naked, even when alone. Therefore, we follow his example. What more do we need to know than that? Like you said, the fact that following Srila Prabhupada's divine example has the side benefit of making it easier to remain celibate is just that: a side benefit.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Testimony from Jayadvaita Maharaj, who was with Srila Prabhupada almost from the very beginning of ISKCON in 1966:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jayadvaita Swami <Jayadvai...@pamho.net>
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:36 PM
Subject: : Dear Jayadvaita Maharaja, ...
To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>

>
>Did Srila Prabhupada EVER bathe naked?

Never when I was around.

       --ys, js

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Prabhus, PAMHO. AGTSP!

Here is yet another succinct reply to my question, "Did Srila Prabhupada EVER bathe naked?" This time from Brahmananda Prabhu, ISKCON's first temple president, who was with Srila Prabhupada from the very beginning of ISKCON in New York City in 1966. So far, none of the intimate associates of Srila Prabhupada to whom I have written have said anything different. They all agree 100% that Srila Prabhupada NEVER bathed naked, even when alone.

To again see the testimony of Jayadvaita Maharaja, Bhavananda Prabhu, Hansadutta Prabhu, or Hari Sauri Prabhu, see the entire thread at http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/ff8d6b1d790315 . All 5 of our esteemed witnesses have been advised of this thread, so they are free to add additional comments at any time.

Ever since Srila Prabhupada ordered us to stop bathing naked in Los Angeles in early 1972, I have been following this directive, and I have raised my 2 sons to follow this directive also. Let us all leave our mental concoctions aside and simply follow Srila Prabhupada's divine example, OK?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brahmananda Das <brahm...@yahoo.co.in>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Dear Brahmananda Prabhu, ...
To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>

No. always wore a gamcha.

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>

To: Brahmananda Das <brahm...@yahoo.co.in>
Sent: Wed, 30 June, 2010 6:17:04 AM
Subject: Dear Brahmananda Prabhu, ...

... Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Did Srila Prabhupada EVER bathe naked?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Dear [name withheld] Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

Srutakirti Prabhu made the first move, not me. He chose to publicly debate me over the issue. (See forwarded email below.) He did it before he was even on the list of receivers. I didn't even know that he would be able to read my email. He must have been able to read it because the prabhupada...@pamho.net forum was on the list.

Therefore, I am simply trying to defend myself and my beloved Guru Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada.

Is Srutakirti in such illusion that he thought that everyone would simply take his word for it, or that I would simply let it slide out of family loyalty? How can someone who was Srila Prabhupada's personal servant not know what every ISKCON insider knows? Either he was in complete maya when he was Srila Prabhupada's personal servant, or he has been purposely lying in order to try to berate me ever since I told my daughter, in 1997, not to marry his son unless his son wore brahmin underwear and never bathed naked. Maybe I was wrong, but at the time, I figured that it was a good test of whether his son was actually a sincere follower of Srila Prabhupada, or just a nonsense fringie.

As far as I know, Srutakirti got a brahmacarini (my son-in-law's mother) pregnant while he was Srila Prabhupada's personal servant, and now they are divorced! Now, because of his own selfish attachment to sense gratification, his only son, my son-in-law, is scarred for life! :-(

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:10 AM, [name withheld] wrote:

Prabhu

Please consider that you are in essence berating your son-in-law and his father over a smaller issue in public. SP clearly did not want men bathing naked in front of each other. Now on such a minor issue you could be straining a family relation which SP also valued among devotees. SP rarely berated devotees in public, he was totally opposed to this and severely chastised those who did this. Please consider your priorities, IMHO, and the multiplicity of SP’s instructions. Not just the one instruction on underwear.

Ys [name withheld]

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Srutakirti (das) ACBSP (Bushey, Herts - UK) <Srutakir...@pamho.net>
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:25 PM
Subject: changing the subject.
To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
Cc: Nathan Zakheim <zak...@earthlink.net>, ange...@yahoo.com, bhaktat...@yahoo.com, cc...@yahoo.com, das...@streamyx.com, hanto...@hotmail.com, istag...@googlegroups.com, lak...@webtv.net, mahesh...@ymail.com, mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk, markm...@yahoo.com, miloni...@yahoo.com, magf...@wowway.com, amey...@gmail.com, yasod...@yahoo.com, sudhras...@gmail.com, urdh...@aol.com, worm.i...@gmail.com, Prabhupada Disciples <Prabhupada...@pamho.net>


Don't want to cause any controversy but when Srila Prabhupada bathed in a
public area he would do so in his gamcha. When he was in his private bath in
his quarters he did not. As he often said, Krishna Consciousness is common
sense.

your servant, Srutakirti das

On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Pratyatosa wrote:

> Very true, but one exception comes to mind:
That exception is that Srila Prabhupada never bathed naked. After 6 years of
noncompliance, he finally had to order that his disciples and followers stop
this nonsense of bathing naked.

> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

Ya know Pratyatosa I do greatly appreciate your mood of compliance with Srila Prabhupada's instructions.

But then DVD comes to mind as something your rather blasé about. And instead very passionate about a small contention that is to my inquiring mind  still not satisfied. NO ONE WAS "IN" THE BATHROOM WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA! They saw Him go in covered, shut the door, and come out covered. This much I have seen as His guard once. No one knows what Prabhupada did behind a closed door! If the door was left open, then I would assume that would mean public and not private.

 

As for your evidence by devotee, I say there is no indication of the exception of private room being taken into consideration, nor was the question asked straight up to Srila Prabhupada. And no indication of some conversation specifically about a private bathing situation. 

I trust your explanation up to the exception of private bathroom on this issue. After that I have an inkling of doubt. This a small thing at that point and not the big issue you are making of it. Now DVD, rtvik and other issues of the like, are very important.

I think your daughter could have been just fine with a boy that bathed naked in a private bathroom, but was a champion of DVD. You and Srutakirti should kiss and make up. I'm sorry to hear that this is such a major thing for you, I'm sure you have bigger pakoras to fry than to worry about naked bathing in private.

Hare Krsna

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com; Srutakir...@pamho.net; amey...@gmail.com; Patrick Hedemark <pdhed...@yahoo.com>; ange...@yahoo.com; cc...@yahoo.com; das...@streamyx.com; hanto...@hotmail.com; lak...@webtv.net; magf...@wowway.com; mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk; ma...@setmedic.com; markm...@yahoo.com; miloni...@yahoo.com; prabhupada...@pamho.net; sudhras...@gmail.com; urdh...@aol.com; yasod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 9:21:50 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

--
 

[Pratyatosa]

You are grasping at straws, Caturbahu Prabhu, desparately trying to justify your own maya and avoid following Srila Prabhupada's example.

Srila Prabhupada's intimate associates would know whether or not he bathed naked because if he bathed naked, then his kaupena and/or his gamcha would NOT be soaking wet. Therefore, what you seem to be saying is that Srila Prabhupada said to himself, "Let me bathe naked since no one is going to see me, but I will proceed to make my gamcha soaking wet so that my disciples will think that I didn't bathe naked!" Is this what you think of your spiritual master?

Ys, Ptd

[Bhaktatraveler]

Don't lower yourself as to put words into my mouth that I have not said, it is beneath my high opinion of you! Tabloid extrapolations are PADA's job, as the mood strikes him. But that should not fly here on this forum. I always thought you ran a higher quality ship, at least you hold me to it as much as possible.

You do make a good point about wet cloth. Makes me go hmmmmmm.

I do not really care about this one way or another, if truth be known. Such a small thing to bath naked in private. Though I may stop. I like to do the easy stuff to make for a stronger foundation to support the more difficult orders. I do not see any actual vani on the subject, a devotee's memory is great for those that have them. I'm all done with "Prabhupada says" that has no hard copy to back it up. But wet cloth is pretty good.

Maya???? Please I got way bigger maya than some stupid thing about private bath naked. Hell, I think I'm King of the world!!! LOL.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com; Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Srutakir...@pamho.net; amey...@gmail.com; Patrick Hedemark <pdhed...@yahoo.com>; ange...@yahoo.com; cc...@yahoo.com; das...@streamyx.com; hanto...@hotmail.com; lak...@webtv.net; magf...@wowway.com; mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk; ma...@setmedic.com; markm...@yahoo.com; miloni...@yahoo.com; prabhupada...@pamho.net; sudhras...@gmail.com; urdh...@aol.com; yasod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 11:12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

[mark mclaughlin]

The main point that RCB seemed to be trying to make was that he is not going immediately adopt some new standard each time someone declares their "prabhupada said" is something we should all accept as law and practice or face being considered in defiance of the Guru's order, insulting to Prabhupada, insulting to the person with the memory, etc. etc.  I agree with him about that tactic, it is a bit bullyish.  Especially when the person you are preaching to is KNOWN for using quotes, demanding quotes, and is also on the record as not being much of a "Prabhupada said" man.  That said, at this point, the testimony of Pratyatosa das, plus the other testimonies and circumstantial evidence weigh heavily in the favor that this was a standard of Srila Prabhupada's.  And that he passed that standard on to select others. Were these select others also ordered to institute the standard across the entire movement?  Because if they were so ordered, someone fumbled the ball if Caturbahu das who lived in various temples from 74-78 never heard of it. It received that standard in Philly.  Always have gamsha at all times when not clothed.  Even in bath and shower. I will take the milk from the water on this one, and am grateful you brought this practice back to my attention.  I believe it would reduce the severety of the attacks of lust on the mind and senses. Love and trust, not by force Hare Krsna!

--- On Fri, 7/2/10, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Don't lower yourself as to put words into my mouth that I have not said, it is beneath my high opinion of you! Tabloid extrapolations are PADA's job, as the mood strikes him. But that should not fly here on this forum. I always thought you ran a higher quality ship, at least you hold me to it as much as possible. You do make a good point about wet cloth. Makes me go hmmmmmm. I do not really care about this one way or another, if truth be known. Such a small thing to bath naked in private. Though I may stop. I like to do the easy stuff to make for a stronger foundation to support the more difficult orders. I do not see any actual vani on the subject, a devotee's memory is great for those that have them. I'm all done with "Prabhupada says" that has no hard copy to back it up. But wet cloth is pretty good. Maya???? Please I got way bigger maya than some stupid thing about private bath naked. Hell, I think I'm King of the world!!! LOL. RCB

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Bhakta Mark Prabhu, I'm sure that it is very encouraging to many of the readers of this thread<http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/ff8d6b1d790315> that you are willing to change based upon what's been said here. I really appreciate your keeping an open mind on the subject. Such open mindedness is very rare amongst us "old guys." :-)

Also, please forgive me for being a little pushy, but certain things that I've been hearing devotees say over the years really annoy me. I'm not saying that you or Caturbahu Prabhu fall into this category, but like I said a while back on another thread, devotees who try to puff themselves up by putting others down by claiming to be "blind followers" of Srila Prabhupada may be feeling insecure in their own Krishna consciousness for one or more of the following 8 reasons:

1. They are not chanting 16 rounds a day without fail.

2. They are not strictly following the 4 regulative principles, especially the one which states: "No illicit sex." which means "No sex outside of marriage, and within marriage only for procreation."

3. They don't even have enough faith in Srila Prabhupada to follow his instruction to "Never bathe naked, even when alone." (paraphrased)

4. They don't even have enough faith in Srila Prabhupada to follow his example and to always wear Brahmin underwear.

5. They don't even have enough faith in Srila Prabhupada to follow his instruction to give their children a 100% gurukula/home schooled education.

6. They don't even have enough faith in Srila Prabhupada to follow his instruction to stop all sex life, leave home, and take to vanaprastha (retired) life at age 50.

7. They don't even come up to karma standards of morality in that they have gotten divorced. Some of them have even re-married. Some of them have even re-married after age 50!

8. They have failed to follow Srila Prabhupada's instruction to give their wife one, or preferable more than one, son to protect her in her old age.


By the way, below is some more testimony. This time from Kavicandra Maharaja. He initially asked me why I was asking the question, "Did Srila Prabhupada EVER bathe naked?", and I couldn't quite understand the rest of his reply, so I sent him a 2nd email explaining the reason and asking 2 questions which were a little more specific. From his answer we can understand that he bases his personal hygiene practices less upon following Srila Prabhupada's example, which he says that he doesn't know about, and more on his own understanding of Krishna conscious philosophy. But the result is exactly the same:  "Always wear a kaupena and/or a gamcha while bathing, even when bathing alone."

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kavicandra Swami (GBC Japan) <Kavicand...@pamho.net>
Date: Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Dear Kavicandra Maharaja, ...
To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>

> It's currently being discussed on a forum. Some forum members, who are Srila
> Prabhupada's disciples, think that it's OK to bathe naked when alone.
>
> You have never heard of Srila Prabhupada ever bathing naked, even when alone?
>
> You always wear a gamcha, even when bathing alone?
>
> Ys, Ptd

I don't know of Srila Prabhupada bathing alone.
I always wear at least kaupins.  usually gumcha. We are never alone.  There
are many witness, including ourselves.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:32 PM, mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The main point that RCB seemed to be trying to make was that he is not going immediately adopt some new standard each time someone declares their "prabhupada said" is something we should all accept as law and practice or face being considered in defiance of the Guru's order, insulting to Prabhupada, insulting to the person with the memory, etc. etc.  I agree with him about that tactic, it is a bit bullyish.  Especially when the person you are preaching to is KNOWN for using quotes, demanding quotes, and is also on the record as not being much of a "Prabhupada said" man.  That said, at this point, the testimony of Pratyatosa das, plus the other testimonies and circumstantial evidence weigh heavily in the favor that this was a standard of Srila Prabhupada's.  And that he passed that standard on to select others. Were these select others also ordered to institute the standard across the entire movement?  Because if they were so ordered, someone fumbled the ball if Caturbahu das who lived in various temples from 74-78 never heard of it. It received that standard in Philly.  Always have gamsha at all times when not clothed.  Even in bath and shower. I will take the milk from the water on this one, and am grateful you brought this practice back to my attention.  I believe it would reduce the severety of the attacks of lust on the mind and senses. Love and trust, not by force Hare Krsna! --- On Fri, 7/2/10, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Don't lower yourself as to put words into my mouth that I have not said, it is beneath my high opinion of you! Tabloid extrapolations are PADA's job, as the mood strikes him. But that should not fly here on this forum. I always thought you ran a higher quality ship, at least you hold me to it as much as possible. You do make a good point about wet cloth. Makes me go hmmmmmm. I do not really care about this one way or another, if truth be known. Such a small thing to bath naked in private. Though I may stop. I like to do the easy stuff to make for a stronger foundation to support the more difficult orders. I do not see any actual vani on the subject, a devotee's memory is great for those that have them. I'm all done with "Prabhupada says" that has no hard copy to back it up. But wet cloth is pretty good. Maya???? Please I got way bigger maya than some stupid thing about private bath naked. Hell, I think I'm King of the world!!! LOL. RCB

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> You are grasping at straws, Caturbahu Prabhu, desperately trying to justify your own maya and avoid following Srila Prabhupada's example.

Srila Prabhupada's intimate associates would know whether or not he bathed naked because if he bathed naked, then his kaupena and/or his gamcha would NOT be soaking wet. Therefore, what you seem to be saying is that Srila Prabhupada said to himself, "Let me bathe naked since no one is going to see me, but I will proceed to make my gamcha soaking wet so that my disciples will think that I didn't bathe naked!" Is this what you think of your spiritual master? Ys, Ptd

[Patrick Hedemark]

Please allow me to offer a side comment upon something that is actually important.   That is that for all of as Srila Prabhupada's disciples - there was NEVER anything he said that we considered as a "little thing" and therefore not very important.   Whatever we were fortunate enough to hear from him directly - or even said to another - we all considered THAT to have been DIRECTLY offered us by no less than Lord Krsna Himself.   When I met Srila Prabhupada for the first time in person - I had, along with 5 other boys - gone out prior to this meeting on a morning walk in Hawaii and picked flowers - wrapping them in a tin foil "handle" - which we all proceeded to offer HDG after we offered obeisances as he was exiting his car. When my turn came to offer my corsage of roses, frangipani and gardenias - my right hand was in my japa bag, so I extended the corsage with my left hand. Srila Prabhupada reached to accept it - but then noted I was offering with my left hand. He immediately asked "Left Hand?". I tried to switch the corsage to my other hand - but he took it anyway, smiling and  saying "That's all right. But next time - right hand".   I felt embarrassed but I was happy just to be there. I remember speaking with Sudama Swami later and he said "Srila Prabhupada took the time to correct a very very small thing. So imagine how important the "big things" are! If even the seemingly "small things" are important - his pointing that out only adds the greatest importance to the big things that keep us fixed in Krsna Consciousness.   I know for myself - its the slow encroachment of the "little things" that I relegate to minor importance - that seem to do the most damage- as inattention to the "little things" always seems to lead to assiging less importance to the "big things" that can do the maximum damage to my determination to remember and serve the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.   I would also tend to consider this issue of "bathing" to be less important and not something to give much concern to. But the more I think about it- the more significant my acceptance of this "little thing" seems to be. It is really more about how simple we can remain in our worshiping of all the vani and example of Srila Prabhupada.   I am grateful for this discussion - as it has triggered a blessed memory of HDG for me - and the blessings of that experience way back in January of 1974. I was given Brahmana initiation only 4 months later and in my letter from HDG - he cautioned that unless the men being so initiated were prepared to strictly follow all our principles very carefully - their was no need for us to take the second initiation. My experience with him on that previous walk helped to underscore what he stated to us in his letter of acceptance.   Though this matter might seem small - and it is - I am grateful and purified by hearing the comments back and forth among all of you. Thank you all very much.   YS   Praghosa

--- On Fri, 7/2/10, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Bathing Naked

[Bhakta dasa]

Dear Prabhus,   Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glory to His Divine Grace Srla Prabhupada! Param Vijayate Sri Krishna Samkirtan!   This issue of bathing in the privacy of one's bathroom, is something I have never heard discussed before... It is unique.   Obviously exposing one's genitals in public is not proper, but alone in the bathroom? I remember as a brahmacari when I had one kaupin, and I'd wash it in the morning when I showered, wring it out and put it back on damp! That one kaupin lasted me close to a year in 1972.   My first personal, direct instruction from Prabhupada was in February 1970. I had worked on getting his apartment ready for him to live in at the new LA Temple. He moved in one day and a few of us were there when he arrived. He sat at his table-desk and handed us all cookies, and after we'd ate them he told us to go wash our hands and mouth, and said that we must do this every time we ate anything.    Begging the mercy of the devotees always,   Your servant,   Bhakta dasa (ACBSP) bha...@saintly.com or bha...@balabhadra.com Skype : bhakta_dasa  MSN  : Bhakt...@hotmail.com Mobile  +66-81-910-8792 Fax 66-2-398-5211          -------Original Message-------

-------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send an email to: Prabhupada.Di...@pamho.net

[larry freeman p]

why not simply wear one's underwear,

shorts, brahmin, etc., INTO the shower,

and wash it off?

to keep it 'clean'?

[Pratyatosa]

Kaupena means brahmin underwear.

I've seen boxer shorts worn while bathing also. Boxer shorts have the advantage of an elastic waste-band, which makes it easier to soap up while still keeping one's privates completely covered.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Prabhus, please forgive me for sending this same email again. I addressed it to Bhakta Mark Prabhu, but somehow or other his email address got removed from the list of receivers. I promise to try to be more careful in the future.

Sorry about that, Bhakta Mark. You might want to check the complete thread on:

http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/ff8d6b1d790315

... to see what else you may have missed.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Bathing Naked
To: istag...@googlegroups.com