history of Hawaii's pineapple
59 views
Skip to first unread message
Victoria Vaughn
Jan 20, 2011, 2:40:01 PM1/20/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Here's an excellent link to answer the question on how the pineapple arrived in the Hawaiian Islands.
Vickie Souza
researching Victorino deSousa or deSouza
Asking a quilter to mend is like asking Picasso to paint your garage. |
Richard Haus
Jan 20, 2011, 11:19:31 PM1/20/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Victoria, Thanks for the link. I visited the site and found some great information. One of the funny things is that on that site is an ad for a nursery that sells paw paw trees. I have had some interest in the tree and probably will move forward with that (living here in Kentucky).
As a side note. Correct me if I am wrong group members. The majority of Portuguese people that immigrated to Hawaii was because of a drought in their homeland. They migrated to Hawaii to work the pineapple and sugar cane fields but, brought with them more skills than the average imported laborer. I was just trying to match the time frames of people arriving and Dole starting to can pineapple in 1912. In 1912 was there an increase in the demand for a workforce to process the fields? My understanding is that the laborers from the mid to late 1800's were indentured servants on the plantations. I was just wondering how many large plantations existed and how the farming market monopoly worked on the islands at that time. I know there is a lot of history......that I don't know. <<<< Wow, I like that statement.
Here in Kentucky I hear stories from older men that in the 1950's the economy was so great up North (Ohio, Michigan for example) that buses would come down to Kentucky towns and take young men up north to work in the factories. I just find that very interesting. I am interested in learning more on the first appalachian settlers that actually had Spanish heritage (soldiers). I can actually see some of the strong features in some of the mountain people.
One of my understandings is that the Portuguese worker was more skilled and quickly moved up the laborer ladder and was disliked by many fellow workers because of his abilities and work ethic. I understand that a Portuguese person can be fair and dark skinned. I think that in the work camps the average laborer was not happy having a "haole" as his boss (who likes their boss anyway right!). I think this was a part of the dislike for caucasian people in future years and some dislike for portuguese people.
About 13 years ago, I visited the model work camp in Pearl City, Hawaii. I found it very interesting and the guide that we had was an expert on the subject. LOL, he had a real portegee mouth to. It was very educational and fun to see. I wonder if that camp exhibit is still up and running, I would like to go there again.
I am just trying to create some interesting discussion that will provoke more food for thought and don't claim to be any kind of an expert. I will appreciate comments and more input from people that know more than me. I am always curious.
Thanks
Richard
Researching: Tavares, Farias, Gomes
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:40:01 -0800
From: kaneo...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [IslandRoutes] history of Hawaii's pineapple
To: island...@googlegroups.com
As a side note. Correct me if I am wrong group members. The majority of Portuguese people that immigrated to Hawaii was because of a drought in their homeland. They migrated to Hawaii to work the pineapple and sugar cane fields but, brought with them more skills than the average imported laborer. I was just trying to match the time frames of people arriving and Dole starting to can pineapple in 1912. In 1912 was there an increase in the demand for a workforce to process the fields? My understanding is that the laborers from the mid to late 1800's were indentured servants on the plantations. I was just wondering how many large plantations existed and how the farming market monopoly worked on the islands at that time. I know there is a lot of history......that I don't know. <<<< Wow, I like that statement.
Here in Kentucky I hear stories from older men that in the 1950's the economy was so great up North (Ohio, Michigan for example) that buses would come down to Kentucky towns and take young men up north to work in the factories. I just find that very interesting. I am interested in learning more on the first appalachian settlers that actually had Spanish heritage (soldiers). I can actually see some of the strong features in some of the mountain people.
One of my understandings is that the Portuguese worker was more skilled and quickly moved up the laborer ladder and was disliked by many fellow workers because of his abilities and work ethic. I understand that a Portuguese person can be fair and dark skinned. I think that in the work camps the average laborer was not happy having a "haole" as his boss (who likes their boss anyway right!). I think this was a part of the dislike for caucasian people in future years and some dislike for portuguese people.
About 13 years ago, I visited the model work camp in Pearl City, Hawaii. I found it very interesting and the guide that we had was an expert on the subject. LOL, he had a real portegee mouth to. It was very educational and fun to see. I wonder if that camp exhibit is still up and running, I would like to go there again.
I am just trying to create some interesting discussion that will provoke more food for thought and don't claim to be any kind of an expert. I will appreciate comments and more input from people that know more than me. I am always curious.
Thanks
Richard
Researching: Tavares, Farias, Gomes
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:40:01 -0800
From: kaneo...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [IslandRoutes] history of Hawaii's pineapple
To: island...@googlegroups.com
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "IslandRoutes" group.
To post to this group, send email to island...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to islandroutes...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/islandroutes?hl=en.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "IslandRoutes" group.
To post to this group, send email to island...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to islandroutes...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/islandroutes?hl=en.
Cheri Mello
Jan 20, 2011, 11:40:52 PM1/20/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Richard,
Mel, the listowner here and the web mistress of www.yourislandroutes.com knows the most history. I'm sure she'll chime in when she has a chance.
From what I remember of Mel's research (and a little of my own), people immigrated for different reasons. I seem to remember some type of crop damage to Sao Miguel island that caused migration from there. I don't remember to where, though. For some reason, I think emigration was just anywhere that wasn't the Azores.
When the plantations (I don't remember if it was the sugar cane of the pineapple) needed workers, they first got some bachelors from China, I believe (this was from a tour that I took in Hawaii maybe 6 or so years ago.) Being bachelors, well, they did bachelor-like things after hours. The plantation owners decided that to calm the rabble rousing, perhaps they should get people that are used to living on islands - and to bring in entire families to work. Families would calm the bachelors. The second wave of workers that were imported to Hawaii were the Portuguese (both Azores and Madeira, I believe).
I can't quite remember the order of the rest of the story, but families were brought in from the Philippine Islands, Japan (a bunch of islands), and I forget where else. Nor do I remember the time period, but I believe Bob de Mello's book starts in the 1880s, so I think that was the beginning of mass migration to the Hawaiian islands. I have used the passaportes (emigration OUT of Sao Miguel) and there is a time period where an overwhelming response to destination was the "Sandwich islands" (as Hawaii was referred to then).
Mel knows more and those who do a lot of Portuguese Hawaiian research know more than I do. I'm just sharing what I've read and remembered from Mel's lectures and writings.
Cheri Mello
Mel, the listowner here and the web mistress of www.yourislandroutes.com knows the most history. I'm sure she'll chime in when she has a chance.
From what I remember of Mel's research (and a little of my own), people immigrated for different reasons. I seem to remember some type of crop damage to Sao Miguel island that caused migration from there. I don't remember to where, though. For some reason, I think emigration was just anywhere that wasn't the Azores.
When the plantations (I don't remember if it was the sugar cane of the pineapple) needed workers, they first got some bachelors from China, I believe (this was from a tour that I took in Hawaii maybe 6 or so years ago.) Being bachelors, well, they did bachelor-like things after hours. The plantation owners decided that to calm the rabble rousing, perhaps they should get people that are used to living on islands - and to bring in entire families to work. Families would calm the bachelors. The second wave of workers that were imported to Hawaii were the Portuguese (both Azores and Madeira, I believe).
I can't quite remember the order of the rest of the story, but families were brought in from the Philippine Islands, Japan (a bunch of islands), and I forget where else. Nor do I remember the time period, but I believe Bob de Mello's book starts in the 1880s, so I think that was the beginning of mass migration to the Hawaiian islands. I have used the passaportes (emigration OUT of Sao Miguel) and there is a time period where an overwhelming response to destination was the "Sandwich islands" (as Hawaii was referred to then).
Mel knows more and those who do a lot of Portuguese Hawaiian research know more than I do. I'm just sharing what I've read and remembered from Mel's lectures and writings.
Cheri Mello
Richard Haus
Jan 24, 2011, 8:05:56 PM1/24/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
I did research on wikipedia on the Ravenscrag. Here is what I found:
The Ravenscrag, described as "an iron vessel of 1,169 tons", built in Greenock in 1893, was reported lost at sea on 7 April 1898 after failing to arrive at the Peruvian port of Callao.[2]
I am wondering how the ship could have sailed into the Honlulu harbor on August 23, 1879 when Wiki reports that it was not even made until 1893. There is a typo on Wiki's site. Anyone know where I can find more accurate information about the ship and would love a color pic of it.
Thanks
Richard
From: gfsc...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:40:52 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Pineapple - Food For My Thoughts
To: island...@googlegroups.com
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Ravenscrag (ship))
Jump to: navigation, search
The SS Ravenscrag (in some records spelled Ravenscraig) was a British barque, historically most famous for bringing Portuguese immigrants Joao Fernandes, Augusto Dias, Jose do Espirito Santo and Manuel Nunes to the islands, as these men are considered to have introduced the ukulele to Hawaii. The ship was the second ship of Portuguese immigrants to arrive in Honolulu, reaching Honolulu on August 23, 1879, having been preceded by the SS Priscilla on August 23, 1879.[1]The Ravenscrag, described as "an iron vessel of 1,169 tons", built in Greenock in 1893, was reported lost at sea on 7 April 1898 after failing to arrive at the Peruvian port of Callao.[2]
I am wondering how the ship could have sailed into the Honlulu harbor on August 23, 1879 when Wiki reports that it was not even made until 1893. There is a typo on Wiki's site. Anyone know where I can find more accurate information about the ship and would love a color pic of it.
Thanks
Richard
From: gfsc...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:40:52 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Pineapple - Food For My Thoughts
To: island...@googlegroups.com
Primadona1
Jan 25, 2011, 11:50:38 AM1/25/11
to IslandRoutes
Richard,
In the book Portuguese Immigrants by Carlos Almeida, first published
in 1978 in San Leandro with a grant from the Supreme Council of U>P>W>
1120 East 14th Street, San Leandro, California 94577. On page 16, it
has a list of all the Arrivals of Portuguese Immigrants in Hawaii.
It lists the date of Arrival, the name of the Vessel, The number of
immigrants, and the Port of Departure.
It lists the Ravenscrag asthe name of the vessel. It says the Date of
Arrival in Hawaii was August 25th, 1879. It was the 2nd ship after the
Pricilla to arrive. It says there were 419 immigrants. The port of
departure was from Madeira. Does this date help?
Donna Gomes Austin
On Jan 24, 5:05 pm, Richard Haus <rhaus...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I did research on wikipedia on the Ravenscrag. Here is what I found:
>
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> (Redirected from Ravenscrag (ship))
> Jump to: navigation, search
> The SS Ravenscrag (in some records spelled Ravenscraig) was a British barque, historically most famous for bringing Portuguese immigrants Joao Fernandes, Augusto Dias, Jose do Espirito Santo and Manuel Nunes to the islands, as these men are considered to have introduced the ukulele to Hawaii. The ship was the second ship of Portuguese immigrants to arrive in Honolulu, reaching Honolulu on August 23, 1879, having been preceded by the SS Priscilla on August 23, 1879.[1]
> The Ravenscrag, described as "an iron vessel of 1,169 tons", built in Greenock in 1893, was reported lost at sea on 7 April 1898 after failing to arrive at the Peruvian port of Callao.[2]
>
> I am wondering how the ship could have sailed into the Honlulu harbor on August 23, 1879 when Wiki reports that it was not even made until 1893. There is a typo on Wiki's site. Anyone know where I can find more accurate information about the ship and would love a color pic of it.
>
> Thanks
> Richard
>
In the book Portuguese Immigrants by Carlos Almeida, first published
in 1978 in San Leandro with a grant from the Supreme Council of U>P>W>
1120 East 14th Street, San Leandro, California 94577. On page 16, it
has a list of all the Arrivals of Portuguese Immigrants in Hawaii.
It lists the date of Arrival, the name of the Vessel, The number of
immigrants, and the Port of Departure.
It lists the Ravenscrag asthe name of the vessel. It says the Date of
Arrival in Hawaii was August 25th, 1879. It was the 2nd ship after the
Pricilla to arrive. It says there were 419 immigrants. The port of
departure was from Madeira. Does this date help?
Donna Gomes Austin
On Jan 24, 5:05 pm, Richard Haus <rhaus...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I did research on wikipedia on the Ravenscrag. Here is what I found:
>
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> (Redirected from Ravenscrag (ship))
> Jump to: navigation, search
> The SS Ravenscrag (in some records spelled Ravenscraig) was a British barque, historically most famous for bringing Portuguese immigrants Joao Fernandes, Augusto Dias, Jose do Espirito Santo and Manuel Nunes to the islands, as these men are considered to have introduced the ukulele to Hawaii. The ship was the second ship of Portuguese immigrants to arrive in Honolulu, reaching Honolulu on August 23, 1879, having been preceded by the SS Priscilla on August 23, 1879.[1]
> The Ravenscrag, described as "an iron vessel of 1,169 tons", built in Greenock in 1893, was reported lost at sea on 7 April 1898 after failing to arrive at the Peruvian port of Callao.[2]
>
> I am wondering how the ship could have sailed into the Honlulu harbor on August 23, 1879 when Wiki reports that it was not even made until 1893. There is a typo on Wiki's site. Anyone know where I can find more accurate information about the ship and would love a color pic of it.
>
> Thanks
> Richard
>
> From: gfsche...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:40:52 -0800
> Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Pineapple - Food For My Thoughts
> To: island...@googlegroups.com
>
> Richard,
>
> Mel, the listowner here and the web mistress ofwww.yourislandroutes.comknows the most history. I'm sure she'll chime in when she has a chance.
> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:40:52 -0800
> Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Pineapple - Food For My Thoughts
> To: island...@googlegroups.com
>
> Richard,
>
Richard Haus
Jan 25, 2011, 12:36:49 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Thank you for responding Donna.
I have noticed a lot of mis information in doing my research at different sites. This is like the second or third time I heard the 25th as the arrival. I understand from most of my agreeing research they arrived on the 22 but must have unloaded and is recorded as the 23 of august. My main question is how could the ship have been built in 1893 and delivered passengers to Hawaii in 1879? That should be physically impossible. LOL. (Wiki pedia link below). The only pics I have been successful in finding is the Ravenscraig. This ship is quite unattractive and does not seem right. This is a large freight carrying ship with an open hull for containers and I wonder where 419 people would fit. I am trying to figure out if there is a Ravenscraig and a Ravenscrag. Most sites say the names are interchangeable but, I find this to hard to believe. I was looking at a family website of a plantation I think on Maui (Gomes) and the family gathered and framed pictures of the ship in Koa wood for a celebration. I am searching for a nice picture myself to hang on my wall.
Richard
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:50:38 -0800
> Subject: [IslandRoutes] Re: Ravenscrag Ship
> From: Prima...@comcast.net
> To: island...@googlegroups.com
I have noticed a lot of mis information in doing my research at different sites. This is like the second or third time I heard the 25th as the arrival. I understand from most of my agreeing research they arrived on the 22 but must have unloaded and is recorded as the 23 of august. My main question is how could the ship have been built in 1893 and delivered passengers to Hawaii in 1879? That should be physically impossible. LOL. (Wiki pedia link below). The only pics I have been successful in finding is the Ravenscraig. This ship is quite unattractive and does not seem right. This is a large freight carrying ship with an open hull for containers and I wonder where 419 people would fit. I am trying to figure out if there is a Ravenscraig and a Ravenscrag. Most sites say the names are interchangeable but, I find this to hard to believe. I was looking at a family website of a plantation I think on Maui (Gomes) and the family gathered and framed pictures of the ship in Koa wood for a celebration. I am searching for a nice picture myself to hang on my wall.
Richard
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:50:38 -0800
> Subject: [IslandRoutes] Re: Ravenscrag Ship
> From: Prima...@comcast.net
> To: island...@googlegroups.com
Cheri Mello
Jan 25, 2011, 1:21:42 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Richard,
You might want to read up on color photography. It's probably a one in a million chance that color exists from then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_photography
Cheri Mello
You might want to read up on color photography. It's probably a one in a million chance that color exists from then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_photography
Cheri Mello
Richard Haus
Jan 25, 2011, 1:50:01 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Here are two pictures that I have found of the Ravenscraig. Notice the named spelled that way on the ship. This is a open hull ship. Where would one store 419 people? This makes me wonder more if there is another ship with the different spelling ss Ravenscrag.
The first picture is color. Maybe enhanced (I don't know). I have found several great pictures of vessels from the day on old color postcards.
Check this out: http://www.mowbars.plus.com/Pictures/ravenscraig.html
Check this out: http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Old%20Ships%20R/slides/Ravenscraig-01.html
I am still looking for information. I wonder how to inform wiki pedia that information they have says a ship was built in 1893 but, was in service in 1879. Thats like saying I was born in 1964 and started attending school in 1960.
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:21:42 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag Ship
To: island...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag Ship
To: island...@googlegroups.com
Eric Gomes
Jan 25, 2011, 5:51:09 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Ahhh the beauty of the web and the idea behind a Wiki... You change it yourself. There is not a second person to edit the information.
Eric Gomes
Castro Valley, CA
Cheri Mello
Jan 25, 2011, 6:17:48 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Richard,
I know there's a kind of a ship history list. Give me some more time and I'll see if I can find it.
Glad you found a pic! Hope it's the right one!
Cheri--
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
I know there's a kind of a ship history list. Give me some more time and I'll see if I can find it.
Glad you found a pic! Hope it's the right one!
Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
Donald Rodrigues
Jan 25, 2011, 6:44:09 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Folks, the vessel your photos display is a modern steamship. It is the Ravenscraig---not the Ravenscragg. The Ravenscragg was a full-rigged or barquentine-rigged (bark) sailing ship. There is a Wikipedia entry saying that the Ravenscragg was lost without a trace in the vicinity of Cape Horn in 1898, which is way before a ship like the Ravenscraig existed.
D.R.
eric edgar
Jan 25, 2011, 6:55:55 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
The pictures of the Ravenscarg posted are of a modern steel hulled freighter. There is no possibility that this is the ship arriving in Honolulu in 1879. we are dealing with four ships with same name
1 -the barque, wooden hulled masted sailing ship that sailed to Hawaii. This may be the one built for the New Zealand wool trade in 1864.
2- the iron vessel built at Greenrock in 1893 and sunk off Peru in 1898
3- the bulk freighter bulit by the Jenks co in 1900 for iron and copper ore hauling on the Great Lakes
4- The 950 ft modern steel super freighter It was involved in the rescue of crew from the Star of Alexandria of Maine in 1989
Ravenscrag is the name of a large steel works at Motherwell ,Scotland
Eric Edgar
Donald Rodrigues
Jan 25, 2011, 7:56:59 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Edgar, thanks for the info.
How do we know that the ship lost in 1898 is not the ship that carried Madeira immigrants to the Kingdom of Hawaii? Do you have other info?
Thanks much.
D.R.
Duane Souza
Jan 25, 2011, 6:57:41 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Richard FYI:
The picture you had is a tanker.
Don't have photo of ravenscrag but would look more like the attached photo.
Duane Souza
The picture you had is a tanker.
Don't have photo of ravenscrag but would look more like the attached photo.
Duane Souza
The SS Ravenscrag (in some records spelled Ravenscraig) was a British barque, historically most famous for bringing Portuguese immigrants Joao Fernandes, Augusto Dias, Jose do Espirito Santo and Manuel Nunes to the islands, as these men are considered to have introduced the ukulele to Hawaii. The ship was the second ship of Portuguese immigrants to arrive in Honolulu, reaching Honolulu on August 23, 1879, having been preceded by the SS Priscilla on August 23, 1879.[1]
The Ravenscrag, described as "an iron vessel of 1,169 tons", built in Greenock in 1893, was reported lost at sea on 7 April 1898 after failing to arrive at the Peruvian port of Callao.[2]
The British bark, the "SS Ravenscrag", arrived in the port of Honolulu on
Saturday August 23 1879 from the Madeira Islands. She carried a total of 423
Portuguese passengers - 135 men, 115 women, and 178 children. The immigrants
were employed as house servants and plantation hands, generally for 2 years,
with wages averaging $12 per month for men, and $6 per month for women. The "SS
Ravenscrag" was the second Portuguese immigrant ship to arrive in Hawai'i (the
first "SS Priscilla" arrived on September 30 1878). Tradition has it that the
"SS Ravenscrag" first brought to Hawai'i a musical instrument known in Maderia
as the "braguinha". It was played publicly for the first time in Hawai'i by a
Portuguese immigrant named Joao Fernandez. Hawaiians took an immediate liking to
it.
![]()
From: gfsc...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:17:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag Ship - 2 Pics
To: island...@googlegroups.com
From: gfsc...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:17:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag Ship - 2 Pics
To: island...@googlegroups.com
Duane Souza
Jan 25, 2011, 7:27:05 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Duane
Your correct my bad.
Yes it was a sailing ship.
Sent wrong photo and yes Steam Ships came to Hawaii about 1882. Should have l checked at Wikipedia a little closer.
Ship more like the one above?
Will check with Hawaii Portuguese Society if they have an actual picture Wed.
DS
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:01:30 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag Ship - 2 Pics
From: nobla...@gmail.com
To: island...@googlegroups.com
Your correct my bad.
Yes it was a sailing ship.
Sent wrong photo and yes Steam Ships came to Hawaii about 1882. Should have l checked at Wikipedia a little closer.
Ship more like the one above?
Will check with Hawaii Portuguese Society if they have an actual picture Wed.
DS
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:01:30 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag Ship - 2 Pics
From: nobla...@gmail.com
To: island...@googlegroups.com
Richard Haus
Jan 25, 2011, 7:56:15 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
D.R., Thank you for your information.
I found this book on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370409004142&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:CA:1123
It has a beautiful cover and a very romantic ship that I would like to think is the Ravenscrag. Much more attractive than that steel hull - Ravenscraig.
The problem is the Wiki information that states inconsistencies with dates and the name of the ship.
Here is the copy again:
I found this book on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370409004142&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:CA:1123
It has a beautiful cover and a very romantic ship that I would like to think is the Ravenscrag. Much more attractive than that steel hull - Ravenscraig.
The problem is the Wiki information that states inconsistencies with dates and the name of the ship.
Here is the copy again:
""The SS Ravenscrag (in some records spelled Ravenscraig) was a British barque, historically most famous for bringing Portuguese immigrants Joao Fernandes, Augusto Dias, Jose do Espirito Santo and Manuel Nunes to the islands, as these men are considered to have introduced the ukulele to Hawaii. The ship was the second ship of Portuguese immigrants to arrive in Honolulu, reaching Honolulu on August 23, 1879, having been preceded by the SS Priscilla on August 23, 1879.[1]
> > The Ravenscrag, described as "an iron vessel of 1,169 tons", built in Greenock in 1893, was reported lost at sea on 7 April 1898 after failing to arrive at the Peruvian port of Callao.[2]""
The first thing you will notice is they say the name is interchangeable (thats the first thing I found very odd). Notice the date issues above. One sentence calls it a british barque and a few sentences later calls it an iron vessel of 1,169 tons. A lot of websites have copied wiki's information.
In my research on other issues and information. I noticed this inconsistent information on many websites. I just want to get the record straight for myself. I am even amazed today at how history is interpreted in my sons history books. I lived some of what they are reading and I know different and get upset of how history can be twisted and reported inaccurately.
Richard
In my research on other issues and information. I noticed this inconsistent information on many websites. I just want to get the record straight for myself. I am even amazed today at how history is interpreted in my sons history books. I lived some of what they are reading and I know different and get upset of how history can be twisted and reported inaccurately.
Richard
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:01:30 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag Ship - 2 Pics
From: nobla...@gmail.com
To: island...@googlegroups.com
eric edgar
Jan 25, 2011, 11:58:11 PM1/25/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Note the NY Times article attached, Built in 1893 in Greenock.
Eric Edgar
Donald Rodrigues
Jan 26, 2011, 12:01:38 AM1/26/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
Eric, no article attached. Can you try again?
eric edgar
Jan 26, 2011, 12:06:23 AM1/26/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
A Barque or Bark is a sailing ship of three masts or more.
The references found on the net to these ships is a hopelessly confusing circle of unchecked references.
Eric Edgar
eric edgar
Jan 26, 2011, 12:14:26 AM1/26/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
You can see here that Wiki confused references about two different ships. Almost every search return is based on the same mangled information. It's like someone searching for
their ancestor Manuel Rodrigues and thinking every Manuel Rodrigues they find is the same guy.
Eric Edgar
Janis Silva
Jan 26, 2011, 2:47:03 AM1/26/11
to island...@googlegroups.com, janis
richard,
there are more than one .2 or even three
ravenscrags ....... as eric mentioned picture of ship, is not
of that time...the ship were looking for is a SAILLING ship.....yet
the hankow ship that in hawaii had 1,462 passengers,docked in
1883...........check article... SHUCKS I DONT KNOW HOW TO ADD ON WEB
SIGHTS TO GIVE YOU SOME INFO......(AS OTHERS ARE GOOD AT
DOING)......SO IM NOT SURE IF I CAN SEND ATTACHMENT ????
. info ....hand drawn illistration of ravenscrag
1862 so there was this ship during this
timeframe.iGONNA TRY
I agree that there must also be something in history
that also gave the portuguese a strong desire to leave their homeland
besides to what hawaii offered.. my grand father and brother were sent to boston
from Pico in1881 to live with petersons...... i also read it and
verbably that hawaii gov.(king) also helped to arrange it because the plantation
owners were having problems with 1st immigrations Chinese ...about
1/3 ended up going back to china.....it ended uo wherefamily ties...were
important... in order to keep workers they broughht family...
the portuguese were of value then because they were more
assertive ..and when they were told to live
here. they asked if they could have an area to
garden(FOOD) they got it and eventually all ethenic groops got the
garden...because of their assertivenes ...they were picked as lunas(
Superviser)
check bottom of pg
hope sone of info will help I......about a year or more i ran into the
same delema on ship ravenscraig ...dates
didnt match.., if a year....but big time gap.....Ifound website that list
ships dates etc pict......have no idea where it is now ...my con
culision info gave ...more than 1 ship with name and left it at that....so
when i saw your e mail i had to answer....i had operation on rotater cuff
total torn about 1 1/2 mo ago
....typing is fof the
chickens....
my son droped over because my phone wasnt working....i had speeker on and didnt
hang up...........lucky for me he showed me how to cut and
paste....
janis
INFOFrom: Richard Haus
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:56 PMSubject: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag more info
Richard Haus
Jan 26, 2011, 10:06:12 AM1/26/11
to island...@googlegroups.com
OK. After doing the research and discussion here. I am convinced:
1. Wikipedia is not an accurate resource.
2. The ships Ravenscrag and Ravenscraig are two entirely different ships.
3. The Ravenscrag is the shipped that docked in Honolulu in 1879 (Baroque).
4. The Ravenscraig is not to be confused or interchanged with the Ravenscrag. A person could probably fit a number of the Ravenscrag inside the Ravenscraig.
5. The Ravenscraig is a steel container ship that did sink in 1898 and was probably the ship referenced as made in 1893. A very short life for a ship of that design.
6. (to be continued) Ravenscragg? ss Ravenscrag? Information on the Captain?
Question: So, the Ravenscraig sunk in 1898, then what happened to the Ravenscrag? I got portuguese blood, I like to ask questions. LOL.
If a person looks at the wikipedia information. They will notice that the second paragraph was probably added to someone else's previous information. I have found a lot of websites that simply copied Wikipedia word for word (especially sites related to the Ukelele). I still have more interest and will do more research. I am amazed that 419 people plus crew could stay on a ship of that type for over four months. I bet the fathers of the Ukelele did some entertaining on the voyage. I wonder if they carried it onboard themselves or acquired it from someone else on board. Could you imagine how boring the trip would be without all the simple pleasures that we have today (ie: no processed foods).
Thanks
Richard
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:14:26 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag more info
From: nobla...@gmail.com
To: island...@googlegroups.com
1. Wikipedia is not an accurate resource.
2. The ships Ravenscrag and Ravenscraig are two entirely different ships.
3. The Ravenscrag is the shipped that docked in Honolulu in 1879 (Baroque).
4. The Ravenscraig is not to be confused or interchanged with the Ravenscrag. A person could probably fit a number of the Ravenscrag inside the Ravenscraig.
5. The Ravenscraig is a steel container ship that did sink in 1898 and was probably the ship referenced as made in 1893. A very short life for a ship of that design.
6. (to be continued) Ravenscragg? ss Ravenscrag? Information on the Captain?
Question: So, the Ravenscraig sunk in 1898, then what happened to the Ravenscrag? I got portuguese blood, I like to ask questions. LOL.
If a person looks at the wikipedia information. They will notice that the second paragraph was probably added to someone else's previous information. I have found a lot of websites that simply copied Wikipedia word for word (especially sites related to the Ukelele). I still have more interest and will do more research. I am amazed that 419 people plus crew could stay on a ship of that type for over four months. I bet the fathers of the Ukelele did some entertaining on the voyage. I wonder if they carried it onboard themselves or acquired it from someone else on board. Could you imagine how boring the trip would be without all the simple pleasures that we have today (ie: no processed foods).
Thanks
Richard
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:14:26 -0800
Subject: Re: [IslandRoutes] Ravenscrag more info
From: nobla...@gmail.com
To: island...@googlegroups.com
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages