Ipomoea nil ?

[J.M. Garg]

Taken on 21/9/08 in Hyderabad, A.P.

I thought these to be Ipomoea indica till some recent posts on Ipomoea nil as below:

http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/750531486b57f0ed#

http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/1f27894357ac89ce

Pl. confirm.
--
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J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
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For learning about Indian Flora, visit/ join Google e-group- Indiantreepix:http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en

[Dinesh Valke]

... yes Garg ji, it is Ipomoea nil ... commonly known as: blue morning glory, Japanese morning glory, white-edge morning glory • Assamese: নীল কলমৌ nil kalmou • Bengali: কালাদানা kaladana, নীলকলমি nilkalami • Gujarati: કાલા દાના kala dana • Hindi: jharmaric, कालादाना kaladana, नीलकलमी neelkalmi • Kannada: ಗೌರೀಬೀಜ gowri beeja, kolli beeja • Malayalam: taliyari • Marathi: कालादाना kaladana, नीलपुष्पी neelpushpi • Punjabi: bildi • Sanskrit: कलंजनी kalanjani, कृष्णबीज krishnabijah • Tamil: காக்கட்டான் kakkattan • Telugu: kollivittulu, jirika, కొల్లి kolli

 

 

Regards.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Dinesh ji.

How is it different from Ipomoea indica as both appears similar to me?

2009/10/7 Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>

[Dr Gurcharan Singh]

Yes Garg ji,

It is I. nil

--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor, Department of Botany, SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018
Phone: 01125518297; Mobile: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[Dinesh Valke]

Garg ji, the slender pure white throat blending to blue ... best seen in the early morning ... starts loosing glory with sunlight growing strong ... reddish hue sets into the blue (the throat remains white). Sighting at this stage, the flower may look confusingly close to other species of Ipomoea. I am sure there is some difference in calyx, too.

 

Regards.

[Tabish]

Dear Dinesh,
I feel this is not Ipomoea nil, but Ipomoea indica (syn: I. learii).
The reason is the following:
Ipomoea nil flowers have sepals which are narrow-linear at the top,
and suddenly widen at the base.
The sepals seen in the picture are generally linear. Hairiness of the
sepals also looks different.
(actually it is the color of the flower which made me think that it
may not be I. nil - I have only seen light blue I. nil)
Please have a look at these two links:
http://jardimformoso.blogspot.com/2009/01/ipomea-learii.html
http://malherbologie.cirad.fr/Advenrun/especes/i/iponi/dessin_iponi.html
I would request others to voice their views, as I am not sure on this
issue.
- Tabish


On Oct 7, 8:14 pm, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... yes Garg ji, it is *Ipomoea nil* ... commonly known as: blue morning

> glory, Japanese morning glory, white-edge morning glory • Assamese: নীল কলমৌ
> nil kalmou • Bengali: কালাদানা kaladana, নীলকলমি nilkalami • Gujarati: કાલા
> દાના kala dana • Hindi: jharmaric, कालादाना kaladana, नीलकलमी neelkalmi •
> Kannada: ಗೌರೀಬೀಜ gowri beeja, kolli beeja • Malayalam: taliyari • Marathi:
> कालादाना kaladana, नीलपुष्पी neelpushpi • Punjabi: bildi • Sanskrit: कलंजनी
> kalanjani, कृष्णबीज krishnabijah • Tamil: காக்கட்டான் kakkattan • Telugu:
> kollivittulu, jirika, కొల్లి kolli
>
> Regards.
>

> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 8:32 PM, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Taken on 21/9/08 in Hyderabad, A.P.

> > I thought these to be* Ipomoea indica* till some recent posts on *Ipomoea
> > nil* as below:
>
> >http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/7...
> > #
>
> >http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/1...

> > Pl. confirm.
> > --
> > With regards,

> > J.M.Garg (jmga...@gmail.com)

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Tabish ji.

After going through Ipomoea indica pictures in Indiantreepix Database & your stated links,

I now strongly feel my pictures to be Ipomoea nil as per your stated illustration link (after closely examining my details from original enlarged pictures): http://malherbologie.cirad.fr/Advenrun/especes/i/iponi/dessin_iponi.html

 

For colour, I think it depends on light conditions, flash used, processing etc. You also may like to go through pictures of Ipomoea nil for colour in Indiantreepix threads:

http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/750531486b57f0ed#
http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/1f27894357ac89ce

2009/10/7 Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)

[Dinesh Valke]

Dear Tabish, your justifications have much clarity !! I am capable of confusing myself !!!!

[Tabish]

Dear Dinesh,
I am also equally capable of confusing myself. So you are not
alone! My argument seems to have convinced Garg ji of just the
opposite! :-) I will wait for some more inputs.
- Tabish

On Oct 7, 10:01 pm, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Tabish, your justifications have much clarity !! I am capable of
> confusing myself !!!!
> Regards.
>

[Dr Gurcharan Singh]

 

I completely agree with Garg ji, the plant here is I. nil. The two species are often confused but the calyx and folds colour helps in identification. The distinctive feature is however, that base of calyx lobes has spreading hairs in I. nil, not in I. indica where calyx is appressed pubescent. Also the upper part of calyx lobes narrows suddenly in I nil and tip has a long acumen. In I. indica the lobes gradually narrow to tip. Also the upper part of calyx lobes is more or less glabrous, where as it is appressed pubescent. And lastly, and more decisive the colour of leaves, calyx lobes is  ligher green in I. nil, whereas it is darker and greyish green. So for me it is I. nil.

 

    Yes Tabish ji, I would request you that you avoid having photographs from two different persons linking to the same species. It can create problem of identity. I had earlier pointed about photographs of Thunbergia grandiflora. The one by Aarti Khale belongs to T. grandiflora, but one by Dinesh Valke to T. laurifolia. Here also I strongly feel that photograph by Pravin Kawale is I nil whereas one by Thingnam Girija is a different species. I hope you won't my pointing this out.

 

 

--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor, Department of Botany, SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018
Phone: 01125518297; Mobile: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[Tabish]

Thanks Gurcharan ji, for your detailed reply. So, Ipomoea nil it is. I
did not know about the feature that the upper part of the sepals is
hairless - the following illustration then protrays it incorrectly:
http://malherbologie.cirad.fr/Advenrun/especes/i/iponi/dessin_iponi.html
Rather I interpreted it incorrectly as sepals being overall hairy.
Regarding putting up photographs by different people for the same
species (at FOI), there is a reason behind it. Some species show
variation in leaves and colors. For example, in some parts, Ipomoea
indica has heart-shaped leaves, and is some parts, the leaves are
strongly lobed. Another example is Kydia calycina, where even the
flower color varies: http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Kydia.html
I feel, putting up pictures of the same species from different parts
of the country helps, unless of course something has been
misidentified.
Best wishes
- Tabish

On Oct 7, 10:31 pm, Dr Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com> wrote:
> I completely agree with Garg ji, the plant here is I. nil. The two species
> are often confused but the calyx and folds colour helps in identification.
> The distinctive feature is however, that base of calyx lobes has spreading
> hairs in I. nil, not in I. indica where calyx is appressed pubescent. Also
> the upper part of calyx lobes narrows suddenly in I nil and tip has a long
> acumen. In I. indica the lobes gradually narrow to tip. Also the upper part
> of calyx lobes is more or less glabrous, where as it is appressed pubescent.
> And lastly, and more decisive the colour of leaves, calyx lobes is  ligher
> green in I. nil, whereas it is darker and greyish green. So for me it is I.
> nil.
>
>     Yes Tabish ji, I would request you that you avoid having photographs
> from two different persons linking to the same species. It can create
> problem of identity. I had earlier pointed about photographs of Thunbergia
> grandiflora. The one by Aarti Khale belongs to T. grandiflora, but one by
> Dinesh Valke to T. laurifolia. Here also I strongly feel that photograph by
> Pravin Kawale is I nil whereas one by Thingnam Girija is a different
> species. I hope you won't my pointing this out.
>
> --
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Associate Professor, Department of Botany, SGTB Khalsa College
> University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018

> Phone: 01125518297; Mobile: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Dear Tabish, your justifications have much clarity !! I am capable of
> > confusing myself !!!!
> > Regards.
>

> >> > >http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/7.
> >> ..
> >> > > #
>
> >> > >http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/1.
> >> ..

[Dr Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Tabish ji, for your reply

 

The illustration is not wrong. The upper part if you notice has less density of hairs as compared to lower part, also they are much shorter in length. In I. indica hairs if present in upper part are appressed and not spreading as in I. nil.

    I think the reason this thread stetched so long was that if we look at the synonymy of these two species, they have been much confused in the past. What we now call as I. indica was earlier I. mutabilis in cultivation, and many more under different names.

 

    Regarding your reason for including more than one photographers for same species, it is perfectly alright. My only request to you is that we should be extra careful when including a differently looking plant. You won't imagine that when I noticed slightly different Thunbergia grandiflora, I tried to confirm from different sources, but when nothing helped I simply put it under T. grandiflora. Only when I saw similar plant here in California, I relooked at my photographs, luckily chanced upon website of Hawaii plants, and knew that I had two species with me instead of one: T. grandiflora and T. laurifolia. Such things only keep the interest in plants and photography alive.

 

--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor, Department of Botany, SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018
Phone: 01125518297; Mobile: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/