> IndianAssociation ofMedical Informatics
> Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)
> 1.
> Episurveyor using a mobile Phone From: Dr. Sanjay Bedi
> 2a.
> Re: [ihind] Re: [biomedinfo] Re: [IAMI] Healthcare analytics From: Dr S B Gogia
> 2b.
> Re: [ihind] Re: [biomedinfo] Re: [IAMI] Healthcare analytics From: Thanga Prabhu, MD
> 2c.
> Re: [ihind] Re: [biomedinfo] Re: [IAMI] Healthcare analytics From: Samir Sahu
> 3a.
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> 3b.
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> 1.
> Episurveyor using a mobile Phone
> Posted by: "Dr. Sanjay Bedi" drsanjayb
...@gmail.com sanjay_bedi
> Thu Feb 9, 2012 3:34 pm (PST)
> http://www.episurveyor.org/user/index
> -- http://www.youtube.com/episurveyor
> Professor Dr Sanjay Bedi
> Professor in Pathology
> MM IMSR ,Mullana ,Ambala
> 09996038569
> If YOU want to convince a man that he does wrong ,do right .
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> Messages in this topic (1)
> 2a.
> Re: [ihind] Re: [biomedinfo] Re: [IAMI] Healthcare analytics
> Posted by: "Dr S B Gogia" gog...@gmail.com sbgogia1955
> Thu Feb 9, 2012 6:34 pm (PST)
> Thx Dr Ajit, Prof Moidu and others
> I thank Dr Ajit again to try to put in a better perspective. For entering
> the debate, I would place on record the knowledge gathered through HIMSS
> levels (mentioning oly where CDSS is a component)
> Stage 7
> Medical record fully electronic;
> CDO able to contribute to ICEHR as byproduct of SEHR
> Stage 6
> Physician documentation (structured templates),
> full CDSS (variance & compliance), full PACS
> <skipped>
> Stage 4
> CPOE, CDSS (clinical protocols)
> Stage 3
> Clinical documentation (flow sheets), CDSS (error checking), PACS available
> outside Radiology
> Stage 2
> CDR, CMV, CDSS inference engine, may have Document Imaging
> So let us say, it is all a matter of which (HIMSS) level one is talking
> about. What we have in India is largely Stage 2 or maybe 3 - while Naresh
> is dreaming about Stage 6 :)
> An interesting observation was the workshop on CDS (please note - Clinical
> Decision Support - NOT CDSS) by Dean, Hardeep and Syed Tirmizzi. I think
> the removal of the last S said it all. The discussions were all about how
> the physician is aided by the machine.
> There have been discussions in this forum, where the machine replacing the
> doctor have been discussed - and to my mind this discussion to some extent
> is veering towards that. I would find that dangerous. SBB is right, we are
> a long way off.
> I think let us be practical and restrict ourselves to the plausible - and
> certainly not the dangerous.
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Ajit Kumar <ajitmask...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear All:
> > To be honest, I am confused with the above discussion. I wish to put my
> > understanding.
> > There are two broad approaches to build a decision support system:
> > 1. Using existing literature / knowledge – In this approach, we
> > collect already existing knowledge from a variety of resources, encode them
> > using if-then-else rule thereby making an intelligent system. The developed
> > system is known as decision support system, more specifically, Knowledge
> > based decision support system.
> > 2. Using retrospective data – We mine past data, and derive knowledge
> > using some techniques (Statistical, Artificial Neural Network, Genetic
> > Algorithm etc). This process is known as training of the system (or machine
> > learning from a system point of view). System acquires ‘knowledge’ from
> > this training. Thereafter, the trained system is known as decision support
> > systems or analytics. For example, business analytics is developed based on
> > financial and administrative data helping in financial and administrative
> > decisions. Similarly, system would be known as clinical analytics if
> > developed using clinical data. Clinical analytics help to take clinical
> > decisions.
> > From this, I perceive *‘machine Learning’* (training from a developer
> > point of view) is a *‘process of deriving knowledge from retrospective
> > data’* using various techniques, and the *OUTPUT of this process is a
> > ‘decision support system’ or ‘Analytics’ *(Business Analytics, Clinical
> > Analytics etc.).
> > Thanks and Regards.
> > Ajit
> > On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:41 PM, K. Moidu, MD, PhD <kmo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >> Gentlemen:
> >> Interesting exchange.
> >> The discussion from an origin of methodology applied would better serve
> >> this complex discussion of technical jargon. The variation in techniques
> >> distinguishes the EE approach from the CS approaches to the emerging
> >> statistical approaches of BI.
> >> Then there is the RESULT view of technical effort.
> >> Such topics are not easily resolved via emails. As each person states
> >> what they want to state and leaves readers bewildered. IN an asynchronous
> >> mode the blog with a POINT/COUNTERPOINT approach may work.
> >> Have a Townhall meeting on the topic at the next NCMI meeting. Expressing
> >> is not enough - references (EVIDENCE) are essential.
> >> IAMI - Laghe Raho.
> >> //KM
> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:20 PM, SBB <sbbhattachar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> **
> >>> Dear Ajit,
> >>> I will write a white paper on it and share it.
> >>> Thanks and best wishes,
> >>> *SBB*
> >>> Dr. S. B. Bhattacharyya
> >>> MBBS, ADHA, MBA
> >>> Cell: +919810595261
> >>> ___
> >>> e-Mail Disclaimer
> >>> The information contained in this message is confidential and is
> >>> intended for the addressee only. I reserve the right to monitor and record
> >>> e-mail messages sent to and from this address for the purposes of
> >>> investigating or detecting any unauthorized use of the system and ensuring
> >>> its effective operation. Unless otherwise mentioned, the views expressed
> >>> are my own.
> >>> ___
> >>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Ajit Kumar <ajitmask...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>> Dear Dr. SBB:
> >>>> Your work sounds intriguing. In fact, I can see that your work has
> >>>> potential from human-computer interaction perspective.
> >>>> Do you have any document or prototype of the system which you can share
> >>>> with us?
> >>>> Thanks and Regards.
> >>>> Ajit
> >>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:20 AM, SBB <sbbhattachar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> **
> >>>>> Dear Prabhu,
> >>>>> I was merely pointing out the differences in analytics and machine
> >>>>> learning - the first being machine feedback for human learning and the
> >>>>> second being auto-learning by the machine.
> >>>>> I have myself built a decently working system that autofills-in
> >>>>> expected data into fields for the user based upon previous entries taking
> >>>>> into consideration the day of week, day of month and time of day. This
> >>>>> pre-filling helps in lessening data entry to a significant degree. It uses
> >>>>> SLN too.
> >>>>> Where the convergence can happen - between analytics and machine
> >>>>> learning - is when the analytical numbers are used by the machine to do
> >>>>> SLN. In clinical systems it would need to use the probabilistic BBN
> >>>>> (Bayesian Belief Networks).
> >>>>> Thanks and best wishes,
> >>>>> *SBB*
> >>>>> Dr. S. B. Bhattacharyya
> >>>>> MBBS, ADHA, MBA
> >>>>> Cell: +919810595261
> >>>>> ___
> >>>>> e-Mail Disclaimer
> >>>>> The information contained in this message is confidential and is
> >>>>> intended for the addressee only. I reserve the right to monitor and record
> >>>>> e-mail messages sent to and from this address for the purposes of
> >>>>> investigating or detecting any unauthorized use of the system and ensuring
> >>>>> its effective operation. Unless otherwise mentioned, the views expressed
> >>>>> are my own.
> >>>>> ___
> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Thanga Prabhu, MD <than...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>>>> SBB,
> >>>>>> Hold your horses...
> >>>>>> I worked in AI while at Swansea University and we built a prototype
> >>>>>> system which takes input from user and using a SLN (self learning network)
> >>>>>> becomes smarter everytime it is used. We adapted it to give differential
> >>>>>> diagnosis for chest pain and it did do a decent job. Attaching a brochure
> >>>>>> explaining this work.
> >>>>>> Professors Rajesh and Mehghana were the people behind this work (CCed
> >>>>>> above).
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> Dr Thanga Prabhu
> >>>>>> Indian Association for Medical Informatics - iami.org.in
> >>>>>> International Ambassador - Swansea University, UK
> >>>>>> http://www.edrprabhu.com
> >>>>>> Cell: +91 98866 83690
> >>>>>> On 8 February 2012 07:25, SBB <sbbhattachar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Dear Naresh,
> >>>>>>> Your points were off-topic. While the discussion is on analytics,
> >>>>>>> your comments related to machine learning. They are two very different
> >>>>>>> beasts.
> >>>>>>> Machine learning, although an old hat, never really became a buzz
> >>>>>>> word, thanks to clinicians like ourselves. We hated any solution that
> >>>>>>> appeared to pre-empt our knowledge.
> >>>>>>> Analytics, on the other hand, can really help us. It provides us
> >>>>>>> with enough information to help us make the "right" decisions based upon
> >>>>>>> our own knowledge and understanding.
> >>>>>>> That is not to say that machine learning will never ever happen. It
> >>>>>>> jolly well might, but not for another 100 years methinks.
> >>>>>>> Thanks and best wishes,
> >>>>>>> *SBB*
> >>>>>>> Dr. S. B. Bhattacharyya
> >>>>>>> MBBS, ADHA, MBA
> >>>>>>> Cell: +919810595261
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ajit Kumar
> >>>> PhD Student
> >>>> Graduate Institute of Biomedical Informatics
> >>>> Taipei Medical University, Taiwan
> >>>> Mobile: +886-921705294/0938034925
> >>>> --
> >>>> IMPORTANT:
> >>>> - Please see the file Email guidelines.doc in the IAMI website <
> >>>> www.iami.org.in > for a set of guidelines for replying or sending
> >>>> mails to this group
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> >> --
> >> K. Moidu, M.D., Ph.D. (Medical Informatics)
> >> T- 703.957.6367
> > --
> > Ajit Kumar
> > PhD Student
> > Graduate Institute of Biomedical Informatics
> > Taipei Medical University, Taiwan
> > Mobile: +886-921705294/0938034925
> > --
> > IMPORTANT:
> > - Please see the file Email guidelines.doc in the IAMI website <
> > www.iami.org.in > for a set of guidelines for replying or sending mails
> > to this group
> > - To post to this group, send email to iami_gen@googlegroups.com
> > - To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > - Do become a formal member of IAMI if you are not so
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> --
> S B Gogia,
> Consultant Plastic Surgeon
> Chairperson Scientific Committee 8th NCMI (ncmi2012.org)
> Website www.amlamed.com
> alt E Mail sbgogia1...@yahoo.com
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> Messages in this topic (4)
> 2b.
> Re: [ihind] Re: [biomedinfo] Re: [IAMI] Healthcare analytics
> Posted by: "Thanga Prabhu, MD" than...@gmail.com dratprabhu
> Thu Feb 9, 2012 7:25 pm (PST)
