RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Tsao, Rocky
Slogans shouted by someone who squirreled away an astronomical amount of money overseas (legally or illegally) would only inspire already-inspired diehards.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?” and “What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?”
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycLVlcpsMY
請看看令人感動，高喊台獨建國的阿扁總統。
他是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
Tsao, Rocky
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.
Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values, including democracy and human rights.
From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: taiw...@hotmail.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:19:22 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Now we all know that CCL has a chink in his armor too! : )
From: Chung-Chih Li [mailto:cl...@ilstu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:09 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: Jerome F. Keating; natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Woops! I do mean "chink" in his armor... Thanks for pointing it out in a nice way... haha...
CC Li
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Jerome F. Keating
Deja vu on natpa once again and again and again. I guess some people learned from the master.
As for ATMs, as far as I can see since the KMT has enough of their own,
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com; cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Inquisitive citizens would ask: 嚙踝蕭What are the good values behind these slogans?嚙踝蕭 and 嚙踝蕭What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?嚙踝蕭
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "嚙瞌嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycLVlcpsMY
嚙踝蕭 嚙豎看令嚙瘡嚙瞑嚙褊，嚙踝蕭嚙諛台嚙磕嚙諍國的嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭`嚙諄。
嚙盤 嚙瞌嚙踝蕭~嚙諉唯一嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瞎嚙瘩嚙箠嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瘤嚙緞嚙瘡嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
嚙踝蕭 嚙踟公然嚙瘩嚙箠嚙璀嚙綞嚙磕嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭A嚙瑾嚙踝蕭@嚙踝蕭A嚙羯嚙罵嚙瞋嚙窯嚙皚嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
Tsao, Rocky
Jerome F. Keating loves and hates slogans at the same time.
Why? He has not yet learned how to focus on specific and relevant facts.
He probably should descend from the lofty perch and ask Taiwanese on the street: “To the KMT, is CSB an ATM machine or a machine gun?”
Inquisitive citizens would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?” and “What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?”
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
請 看看令人感動，高喊台獨建國的阿扁總統。
他 是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿 扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
--
Taiwan_Echo
Why do I always feel like I am listening to a program of Chiang Kai-shek re-visited as Chiang preached on and on about morality and what China needed?
Deja vu on natpa once again and again and again. I guess some people learned from the master.
As for ATMs, as far as I can see since the KMT has enough of their own,Jerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com; cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.
Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values, including democracy and human rights.
From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
JeromeJerome F. Keating
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http://groups.google.com/group/i_love_taiwan?hl=en
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Tsao, Rocky
I should add this: A leader backed by moral authority leads the best.
It is sad that many green politicians only pay lip service to good values and a few green commentators publicly trash them.
Tsao, Rocky
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
This political drama keeps making CSB a good KMT ATM machine for the years to come!
Just check "how many signatures" collected in I_Love_Taiwan in the last four years, then you know is "CSB a threat to KMT" or not.
Most DPP leaders keep a distant from this drama. To endorse this political pardon request is a politically suicidal attempt for DPP!
請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Michael Richardson
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Tsao, Rocky
“Did CSB get a fair trial?” Michael ahs asked a good question.
A related question: “Why did CSB say that I did something not permitted by law?” or “Did CSB ship a huge amount of money to Switzerland illegally?”
Most Taiwanese, rightfully or wrongfully, hate officials who are corrupt or perceived to be corrupt. That dubious hatred (attributable to the rule-of-virtue culture from China) makes CSB an ATM machine to the KMT, an undeniable truth.
From: Michael Richardson [mailto:richards...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:09 PM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: natpa...@googlegroups.com; I_love_taiwan group
Subject: Re: [I Love Taiwan] RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Actually "CSB is an ATM..." is not a truth. It is CSB's conviction and imprisonment for corruption that acts as the ATM for votes--not CSB himself. Since it is CSB's downfall that is to the KMT's benefit, the question that must be raised..... Did CSB get a fair trial?
chingchih chen
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Jerome F. Keating
I do admit that if I had a dollar for every time that Ma Ying-jeou said "the corrupt DPP" I would be a rich man.
Just as if I had a dollar for every time some people said "we need good values, and cultural reform"I would be a rich man.
I believe in patriotism and democracy, yet at most 4th of July speeches I have to admit that after five to ten minutes, I do find myself wondering
who brought the apple pie.
Jerome
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:21:40 -0700
From: ching...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
To: Ts...@ortpatent.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
CC: i_love...@googlegroups.com
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Yes, 嚙踝蕭CSB is a machine gun against the KMT嚙踝蕭 is a myth and 嚙踝蕭CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT嚙踝蕭 is a truth.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭"嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭"嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
This political drama keeps making CSB a good KMT ATM machine for the years to come!
Just check "how many signatures" collected in I_Love_Taiwan in the last four years, then you know is "CSB a threat to KMT" or not.
Most DPP leaders keep a distant from this drama. To endorse this political pardon request is a politically suicidal attempt for DPP!
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com; cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values, including democracy and human rights.From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
JeromeJerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: taiw...@hotmail.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:19:22 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Now we all know that CCL has a chink in his armor too! : )From: Chung-Chih Li [mailto:cl...@ilstu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:09 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: Jerome F. Keating; natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭Woops! I do mean "chink" in his armor... Thanks for pointing it out in a nice way... haha...
CC Li
On 4/19/2012 9:02 AM, Tsao, Rocky wrote:Slogans shouted by someone who squirreled away an astronomical amount of money overseas (legally or illegally) would only inspire already-inspired diehards.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: 嚙踝蕭What are the good values behind these slogans?嚙踝蕭 and 嚙踝蕭What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?嚙踝蕭
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "嚙瞌嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
嚙踝蕭 嚙豎看令嚙瘡嚙瞑嚙褊，嚙踝蕭嚙諛台嚙磕嚙諍國的嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭`嚙諄。
嚙盤 嚙瞌嚙踝蕭~嚙諉唯一嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瞎嚙瘩嚙箠嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瘤嚙緞嚙瘡嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
嚙踝蕭 嚙踟公然嚙瘩嚙箠嚙璀嚙綞嚙磕嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭A嚙瑾嚙踝蕭@嚙踝蕭A嚙羯嚙罵嚙瞋嚙窯嚙皚嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
Taiwan_Echo
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Taiwan_Echo
豬價直直落 賣越多賠越多
http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2012/new/apr/20/today-center4.htm
豬雞不漲反跌 成本增加、供銷失衡飼主雙重打擊
http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2012/new/apr/20/today-south7.htm
Lee, Tun-Hou
Abian’s US issue was rooted in the declaration of “4 no’s and 1 nothing” at the time of his inauguration in 2000 and his subsequent refusal to repeat the pledge in his second term in 2004. No one should ever doubt that Abian did not craft that “4 and 1” statement willingly, although one could doubt that if he could have resisted the pressure put on him and took a gamble. It would have been very hard for any responsible leader of Taiwan to gamble away Taiwan’s safety then. A case in point is that even for someone as polished and as well-versed in international affairs as Lee, Teng-Huei, he still had to retract from his declaration that Taiwan and China are in a “Special State-to State” relationship very shortly (about 24 hours) after the statement was made purposefully to a German reporters.
With hindsight, I wished Abian never made the” 4 and 1” declaration and took a chance, but I will not fault him for making it for the reason mentioned above Once Abian made that pledge in 2000 and refused to repeat it in 2004, one knows that US will not treat him nicely, because the modality of “co-managing” Taiwan with China became inoperable (and US lost its credibility with China about just leaving managing Taiwan in the US hand).
As a side note, why did Douglas Pall so piss off at Abian? Just imagine that you are Abian’s US “handler” and you cannot “control” him. How does it look in the eyes of State Dept and/or While House about your ability?
Tun-Hou
chingchih chen
From: Taiwan_Echo <taiwa...@gmail.com>
To:
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [I Love Taiwan] Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Taiwan_Echo
chingchih chen
From: chingchih chen <ching...@yahoo.com>
To: "Taiwa...@gmail.com" <Taiwa...@gmail.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>; NATPA- Forum <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:36 AM
Taiwan_Echo
Lee, Tun-Hou
Echo,
Maybe I did not make myself clear in my previous posting. I was pointing out a reality, but did not disagree with your underlying theme that US will only act on its own interests, perceived or real.
As to the question raised in this fourm of why US trusted Ma more than Tsai, my take is that US knew where Ma is heading but US does not feel comfortable letting Taiwanese reach its own consensus on where Taiwan should be heading. Under this circumstance, there are players in this Obama government which tried to outsmart everyone else by leaking the "news" to the Financial Times. Obama will not get my vote in 2012 because of this.
Tun-Hou
chingchih chen
From: Taiwan_Echo <taiwa...@gmail.com>
To: chingchih chen <ching...@yahoo.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:17 AM
Frank S T Hsiao
Echo’s question is right, “the USA is extorting us, and it's just beginning. Why should we be in their shoes ?” But doesTaiwan have choice?
I remember Chen Tang Shan, the Minister of Foreign Affairs at that time, told that ABian’s declaration of “4 no’s and 1 nothing” was forced upon him by USA. It is not fair to blame ABian, as he did not have choice at all.
Tsao, Rocky
Good point! And I wonder if "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels" then "Good values is the last refuge of _________?"
I do admit that if I had a dollar for every time that Ma Ying-jeou said "the corrupt DPP" I would be a rich man.
Just as if I had a dollar for every time some people said "we need good values, and cultural reform"I would be a rich man.
I believe in patriotism and democracy, yet at most 4th of July speeches I have to admit that after five to ten minutes, I do find myself wondering
who brought the apple pie.
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
This political drama keeps making CSB a good KMT ATM machine for the years to come!
Just check "how many signatures" collected in I_Love_Taiwan in the last four years, then you know is "CSB a threat to KMT" or not.
Most DPP leaders keep a distant from this drama. To endorse this political pardon request is a politically suicidal attempt for DPP!
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com; cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values, including democracy and human rights.From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
JeromeJerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: taiw...@hotmail.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:19:22 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Now we all know that CCL has a chink in his armor too! : )From: Chung-Chih Li [mailto:cl...@ilstu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:09 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: Jerome F. Keating; natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片Woops! I do mean "chink" in his armor... Thanks for pointing it out in a nice way... haha...
CC Li
On 4/19/2012 9:02 AM, Tsao, Rocky wrote:Slogans shouted by someone who squirreled away an astronomical amount of money overseas (legally or illegally) would only inspire already-inspired diehards.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?” and “What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?”
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
請 看看令人感動，高喊台獨建國的阿扁總統。
他 是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿 扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
Jerome F. Keating
However, I don't see where I said that we dump patriotism because scoundrels hide behind it,
My reference to the quote was to bring out the point that simply preaching something does not mean one practices it.
Some of the greatest proponents of patriotism were people like Hitler, Stalin, Chiang Kai-shek, Mao, etc.
Likewise then for the preaching of good values and cultural reform. If scoundrels can easily hide behind patriotism, I was asking what
kind of people easily hide behind good values and cultural reform? And from what I see in the attacks in forum discussions, good values don't seem to be
the motivating force, but of course I could be wrong.
Certainly however, when people drone on and on about something I admit I begin to get bored and question why. For example, who does not get sick after
hearing Chiang Kai-shek drone on and on about patriotism.
So back to good values and cultural reform. Who can be against such?? Just like who can be against patriotism?
And I acknowledge that every society needs reform. The world is not perfect and never will be.
But for some is this the invitation that they want? i.e. that they can then be the perfect ones sitting in judgment on the world, good values, whatever.
I don't remember any election in the forum that certain people are the ones elected to be the arbiters of good values etc.
some seem to desire that role but I may have missed that election.
I raise the question, and I ask is anyone else getting bored with this droning on and on, how many years has it been? and what has been accomplished other than
some people feeling satisfied that they are the reformers?
Maybe we should create a "good values and cultural reform" forum where those who desire such can go on and on.
Oh and one other point, I thought we had agreed to keep the natpa dirty laundry within the confines of the natpa forum.
However, some how, some where, someone dragged the I Love Taiwan group back into our dirty laundry.
To the I Love Taiwan people, sorry about that, I love you guys and gals as well, but I don't think you really want to view to natpa dirty laundry.
So when did it happen? Well according to the tracking device my server now lists, the discussion was going on within natpa, and then
on April 19, when Rocky answered Ray Lee, somehow I Love Taiwan came on the list so that when someone hits reply all, I Love Taiwan is in the mix.
Rocky, I think your slip is showing.
Jerome
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com
CC: ching...@yahoo.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 07:09:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Good point! And I wonder if "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels" then "Good values is the last refuge of _________?"
I do admit that if I had a dollar for every time that Ma Ying-jeou said "the corrupt DPP" I would be a rich man.
Just as if I had a dollar for every time some people said "we need good values, and cultural reform"I would be a rich man.
I believe in patriotism and democracy, yet at most 4th of July speeches I have to admit that after five to ten minutes, I do find myself wondering
who brought the apple pie.
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Yes, 嚙踝蕭CSB is a machine gun against the KMT嚙踝蕭 is a myth and 嚙踝蕭CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT嚙踝蕭 is a truth.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭"嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭"嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
This political drama keeps making CSB a good KMT ATM machine for the years to come!
Just check "how many signatures" collected in I_Love_Taiwan in the last four years, then you know is "CSB a threat to KMT" or not.
Most DPP leaders keep a distant from this drama. To endorse this political pardon request is a politically suicidal attempt for DPP!
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com; cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values, including democracy and human rights.From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
JeromeJerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: taiw...@hotmail.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:19:22 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Now we all know that CCL has a chink in his armor too! : )From: Chung-Chih Li [mailto:cl...@ilstu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:09 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: Jerome F. Keating; natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭Woops! I do mean "chink" in his armor... Thanks for pointing it out in a nice way... haha...
CC Li
On 4/19/2012 9:02 AM, Tsao, Rocky wrote:Slogans shouted by someone who squirreled away an astronomical amount of money overseas (legally or illegally) would only inspire already-inspired diehards.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: 嚙踝蕭What are the good values behind these slogans?嚙踝蕭 and 嚙踝蕭What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?嚙踝蕭
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "嚙瞌嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
嚙踝蕭 嚙豎看令嚙瘡嚙瞑嚙褊，嚙踝蕭嚙諛台嚙磕嚙諍國的嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭`嚙諄。
嚙盤 嚙瞌嚙踝蕭~嚙諉唯一嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瞎嚙瘩嚙箠嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瘤嚙緞嚙瘡嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
嚙踝蕭 嚙踟公然嚙瘩嚙箠嚙璀嚙綞嚙磕嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭A嚙瑾嚙踝蕭@嚙踝蕭A嚙羯嚙罵嚙瞋嚙窯嚙皚嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
Taitzer
some people feeling satisfied that they are the reformers? .... who does not get sick after hearing Chiang Kai-shek drone on and on about patriotism.... ... they can then be the perfect ones sitting in judgment on the world, good values, whatever......" ......
A little history: Quite a few years ago I, among a few NATPA members, proposed that the NATPA Forum be opened to the public, as professors' duty is to educate the public and to be receptive to the public opinions. A closed Forum is good only for confidential activities, but not for public discussions of politics, culture, and the like. Such good discussions we read on NATPA Forum need to be made known to the public. The proposed change did not take place, and then Professor Luby Liao's I-Love-Taiwan Forum came along. The willing NATPA Forum members have thus remained captive audience of the "droning", an unfortunate situation which needs not be.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
I disagree with Professor Keating, who seems to have a muddled mind.We do not dump patriotism simply because scoundrels hide behind it. We dump scoundrels.No, I am not implying that Professor Keating is a scoundrel.
Good point! And I wonder if "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels" then "Good values is the last refuge of _________?"
I do admit that if I had a dollar for every time that Ma Ying-jeou said "the corrupt DPP" I would be a rich man.
Just as if I had a dollar for every time some people said "we need good values, and cultural reform"I would be a rich man.
I believe in patriotism and democracy, yet at most 4th of July speeches I have to admit that after five to ten minutes, I do find myself wondering
who brought the apple pie.
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
To: Ts...@ortpatent.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
CC: i_love...@googlegroups.com
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To:
natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
This political drama keeps making CSB a good KMT ATM machine for the years to come!
Just check "how many signatures" collected in I_Love_Taiwan in the last four years, then you know is "CSB a threat to KMT" or not.
Most DPP leaders keep a distant from this drama. To endorse this political pardon request is a politically suicidal attempt for DPP!
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values, including democracy and human rights.From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:19:22 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Now we all know that CCL has a chink in his armor too! : )From: Chung-Chih Li [mailto:cl...@ilstu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:09 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: Jerome F. Keating; natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片Woops! I do mean "chink" in his armor... Thanks for pointing it out in a nice way... haha...
CC Li
On 4/19/2012 9:02 AM, Tsao, Rocky wrote:Slogans shouted by someone who squirreled away an astronomical amount of money overseas (legally or illegally) would only inspire already-inspired diehards.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?” and “What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?”
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
Tsao, Rocky
Jerome argued that CSB is dangerous to the KMT, referring to his inspiring a crowd by chanting slogans (with a WUFI leader next to him).
Believing that CSB is no longer influential given his shipping a huge amount of money overseas, I raised a question that many would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?”
What was wrong with mentioning good values in this specific context, instead of in a vacuum?
What was the basis for Jerome to launch an attack at me in response: “Good values is the last refuge of _________"?
I believe that Jerome is not a _________. It appears to me that he just has a muddled mind that cannot process specific facts. In any event, Jerome will always have followers worshipping him, such as Taitzer.
By the way, not all WUFI leaders agree with Jerome, a WUFI advisor, that CSB is a threat, not an ATM machine, to the KMT. It is an issue on which WUFI should reach a consensus soon.
Finally, on Jerome’s “Rocky, I think your slip is showing,” I only followed what several have done, i.e., posting messages on both the NATPA and I-L-T forums. Is NATPA’s “dirty laundry” (e.g., Jerome having a muddled mind?) showing? So what? Admission is the first step to reform.
From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 3:25 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: ching chen; natpa forum; I_love_taiwan group
請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA]
請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?” and “What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?”
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
Jerome F. Keating
But good values are the easiest hobby horse to ride, just like patriotism. Chiang Kai-shek was a master of riding that, just like that of patriotism.
The readers know who has tried hard to do that.
As I said, if I had a dollar for everytime Ma-9 said the corrupt DPP, I would be rich.
Just as if I had a dollar for every time that some people say good values, I would also be rich.
So my comment that for some Chen is considered dangerous stands; whether they are accurate or not is irrelevant, I personally believe that while he moved millions of dollars overseas, there are many that he could still stir up. Some good value people would have trouble accepting that but that c'est la vie.
Mao was always afraid of the Mongolians taking pride in Genghis Kahn; he did all he could to prevent that. was he right?
Now I would also agree that Chen is used as an ATM by the KMT; just as he is used as an ATM to a lesser degree by some in the USA.
And I would agree that some in the KMT, as CCL said, just want Chen to suffer for a variety of reasons. These are not mutually exclusive.
Whether my attack was on Rocky or not, is in the mind of the beholder; I left the end blank so that those who have listened to good values ad infinitum could draw their own conclusions. Who knows Rocky, they may consider you a hero, but then again, they may not. Some still consider CCK a hero, but others, well . . .
And as for Natpa's dirty laundry; the chairperson of Natpa, asked that all Natpa discussions be kept within the forum; most kept followed his direction, some did not.
I will leave that for the chairperson of Natpa to take care of.
There is nothing wrong with posting new items on each forum; I always share my writings with each.
But when one drags emails that have a long trail of discussions onto the new forum, that is a different matter.
Check the paper trail and you will see that.
And why is WUFI all of a sudden being dragged into this? That one puzzles me, it seems like someone has a past history and issues that they are trying to settle.
What are the good values in that??
There is so much hidden here; yes Rocky, admission is the first step to reform, even for those who continually preach good values.
Jerome
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Jerome argued that CSB is dangerous to the KMT, referring to his inspiring a crowd by chanting slogans (with a WUFI leader next to him).
Believing that CSB is no longer influential given his shipping a huge amount of money overseas, I raised a question that many would ask: 嚙踝蕭What are the good values behind these slogans?嚙踝蕭
What was wrong with mentioning good values in this specific context, instead of in a vacuum?
What was the basis for Jerome to launch an attack at me in response: 嚙踝蕭Good values is the last refuge of _________"?
I believe that Jerome is not a _________. It appears to me that he just has a muddled mind that cannot process specific facts. In any event, Jerome will always have followers worshipping him, such as Taitzer.
By the way, not all WUFI leaders agree with Jerome, a WUFI advisor, that CSB is a threat, not an ATM machine, to the KMT. It is an issue on which WUFI should reach a consensus soon.
Finally, on Jerome嚙踝蕭s 嚙踝蕭Rocky, I think your slip is showing,嚙踝蕭 I only followed what several have done, i.e., posting messages on both the NATPA and I-L-T forums. Is NATPA嚙踝蕭s 嚙踝蕭dirty laundry嚙踝蕭 (e.g., Jerome having a muddled mind?) showing? So what? Admission is the first step to reform.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA]
嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
Yes, 嚙踝蕭CSB is a machine gun against the KMT嚙踝蕭 is a myth and 嚙踝蕭CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT嚙踝蕭 is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙請看迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭"嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭"嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: 嚙踝蕭What are the good values behind these slogans?嚙踝蕭 and 嚙踝蕭What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?嚙踝蕭
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 嚙踝蕭 嚙豎迎蕭饇玟菪x嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建國的嚙緞嚙踝蕭
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "嚙瞌嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
嚙踝蕭 嚙豎看令嚙瘡嚙瞑嚙褊，嚙踝蕭嚙諛台嚙磕嚙諍國的嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭`嚙諄。
嚙盤 嚙瞌嚙踝蕭~嚙諉唯一嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瞎嚙瘩嚙箠嚙綞嚙磕嚙磕嚙賠建堆蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瘤嚙緞嚙瘡嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
嚙踝蕭 嚙踟公然嚙瘩嚙箠嚙璀嚙綞嚙磕嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭A嚙瑾嚙踝蕭@嚙踝蕭A嚙羯嚙罵嚙瞋嚙窯嚙皚嚙踝蕭嚙瘠
Tsao, Rocky
I refrained from giving Professor Jerome F. Keating a lecture on Logic 101. It was a mistake.
Professor Keating should have learned decades ago that while all monks have shaved heads, those who have shaved heads are not necessarily monks.
By the same token, Chiang Kai-Shek extolled good values, yet not all who also extol good values are CKSs.
Apparently, with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific facts, Jerome labeled me CKS when I pointed out that CSB is a passé as most Taiwanese no longer see him as someone who has good values.
No, I am no CKS. I have no political ambition whatsoever. It is my goal to practice and preach good values, the religion of an agnostic, while poking fun at feeble-minded egotists.
One of my WUFI friends told me that Jerome is a WUFI advisor. Why did I bring up this specific fact? Jerome probably should have tried to convince WUFI members first that CSB is a KMT threat.
A question for Professor Keating: Should discussion about CSB and CKS be limited to the NATPA forum?
Believing that CSB is no longer influential given his shipping a huge amount of money overseas, I raised a question that many would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?”
What was wrong with mentioning good values in this specific context, instead of in a vacuum?
What was the basis for Jerome to launch an attack at me in response: “Good values is the last refuge of _________"?
I believe that Jerome is not a _________. It appears to me that he just has a muddled mind that cannot process specific facts. In any event, Jerome will always have followers worshipping him, such as Taitzer.
By the way, not all WUFI leaders agree with Jerome, a WUFI advisor, that CSB is a threat, not an ATM machine, to the KMT. It is an issue on which WUFI should reach a consensus soon.
Finally, on Jerome’s “Rocky, I think your slip is showing,” I only followed what several have done, i.e., posting messages on both the NATPA and I-L-T forums. Is NATPA’s “dirty laundry” (e.g., Jerome having a muddled mind?) showing? So what? Admission is the first step to reform.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA]
請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Inquisitive citizens would ask: “What are the good values behind these slogans?” and “What are the good values the TI movement is pursuing?”
By the way, I do hope that CSB will keep his chin up, even though there are too many chinks in his armor.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chung-Chih Li
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:46 PM
To: Jerome F. Keating
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
If there is no chin in his armor, yes, he is dangerous. Yes, you can understand chin as chin in Taiwan. hehehe....
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
On 4/18/2012 8:25 PM, Jerome F. Keating wrote:
Whenever it was taken it represents how Chen could inspire the masses! That plus the fact that he speaks of establishing one's country is what makes him dangerous
in the eyes of those that pander to China!
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
請 看看令人感動，高喊台獨建國的阿扁總統。
他 是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿 扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
Jerome F. Keating
There is a frustrated something here, I leave it to those more psychologically adept to figure out.
And now I am a WUFI advisor?? I also love the way that I seem to take on roles for Rocky because one of his friends told him.
Rocky do you believe and act on everything your friends tell you??? You may want to examine your friends. . . but for us are we going to have to listen on these forums
to everything that your friends tell you?? I think there is a matter of logic in, my friend told me this, therefore it is true????
Then, did I call Rocky CKS? I don't remember that.
I do remember saying that Rocky constantly harped on good values, and observing CKS constantly harped on good values and patriotism as did Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc.. Of course so did the Pope also constantly talks on good values. So maybe Rocky is really the Pope? Again, I leave it to the members.
Finally, to answer the only sensible thing asked, should discussions on CSB and CKS be limited to NATPA? No.
But each forum has its own members, its own personalities, tolerances, its own rules etc. and they should be respected and discussions started in one should not be dragged into another.
It only takes a little extra effort to start a new thread.
Think about it.
Jerome
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
I refrained from giving Professor Jerome F. Keating a lecture on Logic 101. It was a mistake.
Professor Keating should have learned decades ago that while all monks have shaved heads, those who have shaved heads are not necessarily monks.
By the same token, Chiang Kai-Shek extolled good values, yet not all who also extol good values are CKSs.
Apparently, with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific facts, Jerome labeled me CKS when I pointed out that CSB is a pass�� as most Taiwanese no longer see him as someone who has good values.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Yes, ��CSB is a machine gun against the KMT�� is a myth and ��CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT�� is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this �ߺ�"̨����������" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(�ߺ�"̨����������" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո ������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "��ͦ�..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycLVlcpsMY
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Pathuangny
I do share Jerome's feeling that we have too many good value lectures in
the forum. They often sidetrack the discussion at hand and degrade into
gladiator-like personal contests. Could we all give the members the
credit that we are all well educated well meaning adults? If a lecture
is somehow warranted, could we not repeat it so many times as to tune
off other members?
There is a very drastic decline in other members contribution to this
forum. It seems we are splitting hair and trying to find fault with each
other, no longer putting our heads together for Taiwan anymore. I
personally feel a great sense of loss, knowing a lot of effort must have
been put in by LL to keep this forum running.
Patrick
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com
CC: ching...@yahoo.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com;
i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:00:59 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
I refrained from giving Professor Jerome F. Keating a lecture on Logic
101. It was a mistake. Professor Keating should have learned decades
ago that while all monks have shaved heads, those who have shaved heads
are not necessarily monks. By the same token, Chiang Kai-Shek extolled
good values, yet not all who also extol good values are CKSs.
Apparently, with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific
facts, Jerome labeled me CKS when I pointed out that CSB is a passé as
most Taiwanese no longer see him as someone who has good values. No, I
am no CKS. I have no political ambition whatsoever. It is my goal to
practice and preach good values, the religion of an agnostic, while
poking fun at feeble-minded egotists. One of my WUFI friends told me
that Jerome is a WUFI advisor. Why did I bring up this specific fact?
Jerome probably should have tried to convince WUFI members first that
CSB is a KMT threat. A question for Professor Keating: Should
discussion about CSB and CKS be limited to the NATPA forum? From:
Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:38 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: ching chen; natpa forum; I_love_taiwan group
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
JeromeJerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com
CC: ching...@yahoo.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com;
i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:26:56 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片Jerome argued that
CSB is dangerous to the KMT, referring to his inspiring a crowd by
chanting slogans (with a WUFI leader next to him). Believing that CSB is
no longer influential given his shipping a huge amount of money
overseas, I raised a question that many would ask: “What are the good
values behind these slogans?” What was wrong with mentioning good values
in this specific context, instead of in a vacuum? What was the basis for
Jerome to launch an attack at me in response: “Good values is the last
refuge of _________"?I believe that Jerome is not a _________. It
appears to me that he just has a muddled mind that cannot process
specific facts. In any event, Jerome will always have followers
worshipping him, such as Taitzer. By the way, not all WUFI leaders
agree with Jerome, a WUFI advisor, that CSB is a threat, not an ATM
machine, to the KMT. It is an issue on which WUFI should reach a
consensus soon. Finally, on Jerome’s “Rocky, I think your slip is
showing,” I only followed what several have done, i.e., posting messages
on both the NATPA and I-L-T forums. Is NATPA’s “dirty laundry” (e.g.,
Jerome having a muddled mind?) showing? So what? Admission is the
first step to reform. From: Jerome F. Keating
[mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 3:25 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: ching chen; natpa forum; I_love_taiwan group
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
JeromeJerome F. Keating
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com
CC: ching...@yahoo.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com;
i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 07:09:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片I disagree with
Professor Keating, who seems to have a muddled mind.
We do not dump patriotism simply because scoundrels hide behind it. We
dump scoundrels.
No, I am not implying that Professor Keating is a scoundrel.
On Apr 19, 2012, at 8:38 PM, "Jerome F. Keating"
<taiw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Good point! And I wonder if "patriotism is the last refuge of
scoundrels" then "Good values is the last refuge of _________?"
I do admit that if I had a dollar for every time that Ma Ying-jeou said
"the corrupt DPP" I would be a rich man.
Just as if I had a dollar for every time some people said "we need good
values, and cultural reform"I would be a rich man.
I believe in patriotism and democracy, yet at most 4th of July speeches
I have to admit that after five to ten minutes, I do find myself
wondering
who brought the apple pie.
JeromeJerome F. Keating
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:21:40 -0700
From: ching...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
To: Ts...@ortpatent.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
CC: i_love...@googlegroups.comLet's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In
leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT
or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political
power game.
This political drama keeps making CSB a good KMT ATM machine for the
years to come!
Just check "how many signatures" collected in I_Love_Taiwan in the last
four years, then you know is "CSB a threat to KMT" or not.
Most DPP leaders keep a distant from this drama. To endorse this
political pardon request is a politically suicidal attempt for DPP!
From: Ts...@ortpatent.com
To: taiw...@hotmail.com; cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees
CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.
Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values,
including democracy and human rights.
From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see
him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good
values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried
about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
CC Li
Regards,
Chun-Chih Li
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:18:25 -0500
From: cl...@ilstu.edu
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting
president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳
..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it
taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so,
it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycLVlcpsMY
請 看看令人感動，高喊台獨建國的阿扁總統。
他 是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿 扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
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Tsao, Rocky
1. I apologize for not lecturing Professor Keating earlier on Logic 101. Well, it is better late than never.
2. Is Jerome a WUFI advisor (a question that he can readily answer)? In any event, I fully trust my friend (a high-ranking WUFI leader), who is honest.
3. Speaking of honesty or, for that matter, dishonesty, I am hardly surprised by Jerome's denial that he labeled me CKS. Let me quote him: “when people drone on and on about something I admit I begin to get bored and question why. For example, who does not get sick after hearing Chiang Kai-shek drone on and on about patriotism." (Quite a mouthful! I enjoy putting Jerome’s words back into his big mouth though.) After having labeled me CKS, he now refuses to admit it. Apparently, he also needs the first lecture in Ethics 101, namely, the one about differences between honesty and dishonesty.
4. Interestingly, Patrick Huang, once a WUFI cadre, does not believe that this vicious and illogical attack by Jerome called for lectures on good values and good logic.
Apparently, with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific facts, Jerome labeled me CKS when I pointed out that CSB is a passé as most Taiwanese no longer see him as someone who has good values.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
請 看看令人感動，高喊台獨建國的阿扁總統。
他 是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿 扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
Tsao, Rocky
剛剛尿尿回來的黃再添同學沒有注意到這個事實: No one has ever given a lecture on Logic 101 in these two forums.
Yes, "we are all well educated." 李弘祺 (Yale PhD), a 劉憶如 admirer, came to mind. Yet, many of us, blinded by egos or 人情, are unable to discern facts, let alone think logically.
Introspection is always painful for those who are too proud to air their dirty laundry However, admission is the first step to reform, as I have said and Jerome has agreed. By the way, cultural reform, both within and without the DPP, will help us win elections.
One more point: We can always participate in forum discussion while continuing to contribute to the movement outside the forums. There is no conflict. 黃再添同學好打迷糊仗, 又提出了一個假議題. 真是不長進!
黃同學的褲子怎麼濕了呢? 快去脫褲子打鼓 - with 南嘉.
Jerome F. Keating
Let's go to Rocky's points.
And I ask everyone to pay close attention to this. Rocky for all appearances is going to be with us for life.
Thus if you want to know how to survive the Rocky logic and lectures, you have to know how to filter Rocky.
1--apologies accepted Rocky, I know how hard it must have been for you to hold off lecturing.
2--Am I a WUFI advisor? Sorry Rocky, the answer is a categorical no. I know that must be hard for you to accept.
But let's look at Rocky's logic. A) Rocky has a friend. (OK accepted at least for now, though lacking other evidence we do take Rocky's word in all of the following.) B) Rocky's friend is a high ranking WUFI leader. (OK accepted for now) C) Rocky's friend is honest. (OK, again accepted for now). D) Rocky's friend supposedly tells Rocky that Jerome is a WUFI adviser.
Therefore Jerome is a WUFI adviser. Somehow, there is a step or two missing in this logical syllogism.
Now of course the whole thing could be clarified more if there is someone who would step forward and say, Yes, I fit A, B, C, and D. I would love for that to happen, but somehow, I don't think that there is a person out there who would want to fess up to A, B, C and D. The door is open people.
Jerome does have a question, does Rocky invent things or use bhagwa (gossip) as the basis for his lecturing?? I wonder.
I certainly admit I know WUFI people, but as for anyone appointing me or asking me to be an adviser??? Sorry no.
But then I have to ask another question, why does Rocky constantly seem to rail against WUFI? A perverse side of me would wonder, was Rocky ever a member of WUFI and was kicked out? Was Rocky refused membership in WUFI? Does Rocky have someone in WUFI that he had a falling out with? I don't know, but when a man never seems to miss a chance to rail against WUFI, I do wonder. Maybe, WUFI just does not have good values.
3. Next step in logic. and this time a lecture in ethics is thrown in to boot.
W (Chiang Kai-shek) drones on and on about good values and Jerome wonders why. X (Rocky) drones on and on about good values and Jerome wonders why. Y (the Pope or any religious leader) drones on and on about good values and Jerome wonders why. Z (anyone and everyone) anyone and everyone who drone on and on about good values will make Jerome wonder why.
Since Jerome wonders why in each situation, does that mean that W=X=Y=Z. Somehow again something is lacking. True in each situation Jerome wonders why, but does that mean that Chiang Kai-shek is Rocky is the Pope is anyone and everyone??? Jerome needs a lecture in ethics because he wonders why in each situation. I find something missing in that logic.
4. Now Patrick Huang is being dragged into this. Why?? Sorry Patrick, I guess it was your curse to have been in WUFI.
5. A new point, Jerome is launching a cruel and illogical attack on poor Rocky. Is there no one out there who will stand up for poor Rocky that he must endure the slings and barbs of the vicious and illogical attacks I lay on him? Rocky, you are indeed the Suffering Servant. Time for you to give us another lecture.
Jerome
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Apparently, with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific facts, Jerome labeled me CKS when I pointed out that CSB is a pass�� as most Taiwanese no longer see him as someone who has good values.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Yes, ��CSB is a machine gun against the KMT�� is a myth and ��CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT�� is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this �ߺ�"̨����������" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(�ߺ�"̨����������" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո ������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "��ͦ�..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
Ո �������˸Єӣ��ߺ�̨������İ��⿂�y��
�� �ǽ����Ψһ�ҹ�Ȼ����̨�������������������
�� �Ȼ������̨���Ї�һ߅һ��ŕ�������z��
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Pathuangny
I think some people are just that way: they must have the last say, no
master what, even after we have agreed to their points (my own wife is a
case in point). So, my hunch is this may not have anything to do with
Rocky & WUFI at all.
As for the love Rocky bestowed on me from time to time, all I want to
say is I escape from my wife's good this, good that lectures just to be
ambushed by Rocky' good value... Oh my God! Heed my cry!
Patrick
may have nothing to do have the Rocky-WUFI thing
From: Jerome F. Keating <taiw...@hotmail.com>
To: tsao natpa <ts...@ortpatent.com>
Cc: ching chen <ching...@yahoo.com>; natpa forum
<natpa...@googlegroups.com>; I_love_taiwan group
<i_love...@googlegroups.com>
I love the way Rocky refrains from giving a lecture and then gives one.
There is a frustrated something here, I leave it to those more
psychologically adept to figure out.
And now I am a WUFI advisor?? I also love the way that I seem to take
on roles for Rocky because one of his friends told him.
Rocky do you believe and act on everything your friends tell you??? You
may want to examine your friends. . . but for us are we going to have to
listen on these forums
to everything that your friends tell you?? I think there is a matter of
logic in, my friend told me this, therefore it is true????
Then, did I call Rocky CKS? I don't remember that.
I do remember saying that Rocky constantly harped on good values, and
observing CKS constantly harped on good values and patriotism as did
Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc.. Of course so did the Pope also constantly
talks on good values. So maybe Rocky is really the Pope? Again, I leave
it to the members.
Finally, to answer the only sensible thing asked, should discussions on
CSB and CKS be limited to NATPA? No.
But each forum has its own members, its own personalities, tolerances,
its own rules etc. and they should be respected and discussions started
in one should not be dragged into another.
It only takes a little extra effort to start a new thread.
Think about it.
JeromeJerome F. Keating
To: taiw...@hotmail.com
CC: ching...@yahoo.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com;
i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:00:59 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片I refrained from
giving Professor Jerome F. Keating a lecture on Logic 101. It was a
mistake. Professor Keating should have learned decades ago that while
all monks have shaved heads, those who have shaved heads are not
necessarily monks. By the same token, Chiang Kai-Shek extolled good
values, yet not all who also extol good values are CKSs. Apparently,
with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific facts, Jerome
have no political ambition whatsoever. It is my goal to practice and
preach good values, the religion of an agnostic, while poking fun at
feeble-minded egotists. One of my WUFI friends told me that Jerome is a
WUFI advisor. Why did I bring up this specific fact? Jerome probably
should have tried to convince WUFI members first that CSB is a KMT
threat. A question for Professor Keating: Should discussion about CSB
and CKS be limited to the NATPA forum? From: Jerome F. Keating
[mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:38 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: ching chen; natpa forum; I_love_taiwan group
To: taiw...@hotmail.com
CC: ching...@yahoo.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com;
i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:26:56 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片Jerome argued that
CSB is dangerous to the KMT, referring to his inspiring a crowd by
chanting slogans (with a WUFI leader next to him). Believing that CSB is
no longer influential given his shipping a huge amount of money
overseas, I raised a question that many would ask: “What are the good
values behind these slogans?” What was wrong with mentioning good values
in this specific context, instead of in a vacuum? What was the basis for
Jerome to launch an attack at me in response: “Good values is the last
specific facts. In any event, Jerome will always have followers
worshipping him, such as Taitzer. By the way, not all WUFI leaders
agree with Jerome, a WUFI advisor, that CSB is a threat, not an ATM
machine, to the KMT. It is an issue on which WUFI should reach a
consensus soon. Finally, on Jerome’s “Rocky, I think your slip is
showing,” I only followed what several have done, i.e., posting messages
on both the NATPA and I-L-T forums. Is NATPA’s “dirty laundry” (e.g.,
Jerome having a muddled mind?) showing? So what? Admission is the
first step to reform. From: Jerome F. Keating
[mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 3:25 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky
Cc: ching chen; natpa forum; I_love_taiwan group
To: taiw...@hotmail.com
CC: ching...@yahoo.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com;
i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 07:09:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片I disagree with
Professor Keating, who seems to have a muddled mind.
We do not dump patriotism simply because scoundrels hide behind it. We
dump scoundrels.
No, I am not implying that Professor Keating is a scoundrel.
On Apr 19, 2012, at 8:38 PM, "Jerome F. Keating"
Good point! And I wonder if "patriotism is the last refuge of
scoundrels" then "Good values is the last refuge of _________?"
I do admit that if I had a dollar for every time that Ma Ying-jeou said
"the corrupt DPP" I would be a rich man.
Just as if I had a dollar for every time some people said "we need good
values, and cultural reform"I would be a rich man.
I believe in patriotism and democracy, yet at most 4th of July speeches
I have to admit that after five to ten minutes, I do find myself
wondering
who brought the apple pie.
JeromeJerome F. Keating
To: Ts...@ortpatent.com; natpa...@googlegroups.com
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President
George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's
proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential
election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to
stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then.
Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going
against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored
Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also
January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even
though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>;
"natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an
ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT
power game.
This political drama keeps making CSB a good KMT ATM machine for the
years to come!
Just check "how many signatures" collected in I_Love_Taiwan in the last
four years, then you know is "CSB a threat to KMT" or not.
Most DPP leaders keep a distant from this drama. To endorse this
political pardon request is a politically suicidal attempt for DPP!
To: taiw...@hotmail.com; cl...@ilstu.edu
CC: natpa...@googlegroups.com; i_love...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:11:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
An inconvenient fact for myopic, ostrich-like sloganeers: The KMT sees
CSB as an ATM machine, not a threat such as a machine gun.
Allow me to remind our slogan lovers. China fears good values,
including democracy and human rights.
From: Jerome F. Keating [mailto:taiw...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Tsao, Rocky; c li
Cc: natpa forum
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
With all the chinks in his armor, it remains that his enemies still see
him as a threat;
perhaps they see something that some natpa members, lost in their good
values don't see, revealing the chinks in natpa.
as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone in the KMT, USA or China worried
about a threat from the "good value" people of natpa.
I wonder why?
Jerome
Jerome F. Keating
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting
taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so,
it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycLVlcpsMY
他 是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿 扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
This forum is restricted to NATPA members only. The views and opinions
expressed in every post are strictly those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect the views or opinions of NATPA.
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Tsao, Rocky
1. Jerome really likes his big hole in the sand! He labeled me as CSK. As soon as he did that, Johnson Wang responded: “ >> learned from the master, Chiang Kai-shek ? Nop !!! It is not learned; it is reincarnation.” Yet, Jerome still denies that he labeled me CSK. A profile of cowardice? He should have listened to what old Su once told us in English: “Honest [sic] is the best policy.”
2. Jerome also denies that he is a WUFI advisor. Can he categorically deny that he does not or did not hold any WUFI position? : ) Not that I care. However, when someone tells us that CSB is a threat to the KMT (which is so remote from the truth), we simply need to know where he comes from.
Apparently, with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific facts, Jerome labeled me CKS when I pointed out that CSB is a passé as most Taiwanese no longer see him as someone who has good values.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
Yes, “CSB is a machine gun against the KMT” is a myth and “CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT” is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this 高喊"台灣獨立建國" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(高喊"台灣獨立建國" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] 請 看阿扁高喊台灣獨立建國的影片
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "力挺陳..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
請 看看令人感動，高喊台獨建國的阿扁總統。
他 是近年來唯一敢公然主張台灣獨立建國的政治人物。
阿 扁公然主張，台灣中國，一邊一國，才會被害入獄。
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To post to this group, send email to natpa...@googlegroups.com
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Tsao, Rocky
Does your message demonstrate good taste?
Does it demonstrate good values?
Have to go to 尿尿 now. Good night!
-----Original Message-----
From: i_love...@googlegroups.com [mailto:i_love...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pathuangny
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:27 PM
To: i_love...@googlegroups.com
Jerome F. Keating
I was wondering when he would return. Excuse me while I step out to get some pop corn before I continue reading.
1. Yes, good, let me see, Rocky still feels persecuted; I have labeled him as CKS. Not so Rocky; the proper term could be comparative analogy or metaphoric analogy;
you note some comparisons and then leave it to the reader as to how little or how far they should take it in application.
I have always left it open to all readers; but it is a good device to draw out the guilty. You do seem touchy on this.
Poor Rocky, he is so persecuted and unappreciated; someone say a few good words for him please.
2. Then there is the WUFI affiliation. Sorry again Rocky, I do not, and I have never held any WUFI position; bhagwa does not normally constitute reality.
But I do love the way Rocky says he really does not care about who is in WUFI etc. but he keeps dragging it into so many conversations. Again and again and again.
Come on, someone out there, be honest and tell me.
Fess up WUFI members. Did you guys refuse Rocky membership? Did some WUFI member leave Rocky holding a large bar tab?? What gives? Rocky can't seem to let WUFI go.
Ah, so; then there is the final point; is CSB a threat to the KMT? Rocky it seems feels no. I expect that Rocky will next tell us that he has a friend who is high up in the KMT and that this friend has relaid the message back to Rocky; just as his friend who is high up in WUFI has said I am an adviser.
Well and good, whether CSB is a threat or not is one thing, however whether some KMT still perceive him as a threat is another; there are many KMT out there and giving Chen the pulpit is one thing they don't want to do.
Jerome
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Apparently, with a muddled mind that cannot logically process specific facts, Jerome labeled me CKS when I pointed out that CSB is a pass�� as most Taiwanese no longer see him as someone who has good values.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Let's be in the shoes of Uncle Sam. In other word, how have the U.S. seen CSB?
CSB was/is the SURPRISE machine to the U.S. That's why U.S. President George W Bush publicly scolded CSB. For example, the US "opposed" CSB's proposal of combining joining UN refeerendum with 2008 presidential election. Many Green camp Taiwanese cheered CSB for having guts to stand up against Uncle Sam. Frankly, I too felt soong/good then. Unfortunately, now we know the consequences of surprising and going against Uncle Sam. Do we still wonder why the U.S. officially favored Ma over the DPP presidential candidates not only in March 2008 but also January 2012???
Ma 9, on the other hand, has been the ATM machine to the U.S. even though more so to the PRC.
You can name the scapegoat from different perspectives.
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: 'Raymond Lee' <rayl...@hotmail.com>; "natpa...@googlegroups.com" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: I_love_taiwan group <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
Yes, ��CSB is a machine gun against the KMT�� is a myth and ��CSB is an ATM machine for the KMT�� is a truth.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:42 PM
To: natpa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
The film was made after not before CSB left his office. CSB and some leaders of this movement need each other in this �ߺ�"̨����������" drama.
They need to grasp a straw(�ߺ�"̨����������" , " CSB is still a threat to KMT or CCP"...) to save their political lives in the deep water of political power game.
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] Re: [BATA] Ո ������ߺ�̨�����������ӰƬ
When was this video taken? It's doesn't look like he is still a sitting president in the video. From the video, the banner behind him goes "��ͦ�..." (can't see the whole banner), so he was already in trouble. Was it taken after 5/20/2008, or during his short period of probation? If so, it's a post condition of his trouble, not the cause.
Regards,
Chung-Chih Li
On 4/17/2012 2:16 PM, Johnson C Wang wrote:
Ո �������˸Єӣ��ߺ�̨������İ��⿂�y��
�� �ǽ����Ψһ�ҹ�Ȼ����̨�������������������
�� �Ȼ������̨���Ї�һ߅һ��ŕ�������z��