FW: [HG-new] Digest for hurdygurdy@googlegroups.com - 6 Messages in 2 Topics H VIII
michael
From: hurdy...@googlegroups.com [mailto:hurdy...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 10 April 2012 08:59
To: Digest Recipients
Subject: [HG-new] Digest for hurdy...@googlegroups.com - 6 Messages in 2 Topics
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics
§ Olympic Minstrel HG [1 Update]
§ Henry VIII and the hurdy gurdy [5 Updates]
Roger
Abrahamson <rbo...@earthlink.net> Apr 09 08:16PM -0500
I have an Olympic Musical Instruments Minstrel Model Hurdy Gurdy in excellent
condition for sale. It's a wonderful, stable, professional
quality instrument. Included is a soft case, "The Hurdy Gurdy"
adjustment and maintence book by Destrem and "Hurdy Gurdy Method" by
Doreen Muskett.
Please contact me off list at rbo...@earthlink.net if you're interested.
Thanks,
Roger Abrahamson
Henry VIII and the hurdy gurdy
There is no record of Henry VIII destroying hurdy-gurdies. The first evidence of its use in England is the 18th century street players (Hogarth), and even so they could have come over from the continent. The popular folk instruments of the time were the bagpipes in various forms.
I wonder if this fictional event is being confused with the massacre of the lyrniki in Russia. (20th cent.) No doubt these players sang songs critical of the government. Mussorgsky ended his life in prison for doing the same thing.
In the 18th century during the English suppression of the Scots no emblem of nationalism was allowed for 40 years on pain of execution. Similar bans exist in recent history.
In the 16th century Henry VIII destroyed the monasteries, leaving us with ‘cold bare ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang’. WS. Through this action much scholarship and music was lost. Henry was also a serial murderer who exculpated himself by changing the law (as is done today).
I can hardly agree that he was a prolific composer. In the book Music at the Court of Henry VIII I can find only 21 songs attributed to him. Compare this with the output of Wm Byrd, Scarlatti with his 550 sonatas, or Vivaldi with his 500 concertos.
Thomas A
Frank <ka2...@cox.net> Apr 09 07:42AM -0400
That is an interesting thing to ponder.
My understanding was that Henry went after bagpipes so as to suppress Scottish
nationalism. Is it possible that the fact that the HG sounds somewhat similar
made it a target for the same reason?
Imagine the poor HG owners, mistaken for Scot's because of their sound...or did
the Scot's switch to HG's to beat the bagpipe ban (I've never heard that
before, anyone?), and Henry reacted?
Fascinating piece of history. I'm not even sure where to look for more in depth
information on the subject!
Tom Frank
Judith
Lindenau <jud...@judithlindenau.com> Apr 09 08:17AM
-0400
In his book "The Hurdy Gurdy in Eighteenth Century France", Robert
Green
devotes several pages to the' fall' of the instrument. Green thinks (see
page 23<http://books.google.com/books?id=ahkNN66x18YC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=hurdy+gurdy+French+revolution&source=bl&ots=5OntDq1e5z&sig=t1uKKcE__jE3rWcyCtrxUkt8k8M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oc-CT5L1Loee8gSD2-DbBw&ved=0CFwQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false>)
that the interest merely migrated to more rural areas outside Paris, and
'entered the general culture.' In particular, Greene notes the rise of
luthiers in Jenzat. However, interest in the instrument continued a
gradual decline as a result of a waning interest in folk music in general.
That's a far less dramatic picture than have always pictured of a blazing
bonfire with a pile of gilt-encrusted lutebacks.
Or even bagpipes.
judith lindenau
--
Judith Lindenau
www.judithlindenau.com
Consulting and Personal Coaching
Management blog: http://www.realtown.com/Judith2/blog
Roy
Trotter <gurdy...@gmail.com> Apr 09 10:57AM -0500
Uhm, ,,, No.
I am familiar with them HENRY VIII = THE DEVIL stories, but haven't heard
them much since the decline of radical feminism in the mid-seventies. Even
the radical Celtic-ism people ... (no, I'm not talking about basketball
fans ... ) (Anyway...) They don't single him out as that evil. It wouldn't
have had much effect anyway.
Henry VIII was an English King.
Hurdy Gurdy wasn't very popular in England at the time.
Sometimes things that go on in England
also go on in France, Germany,
Italy, Spain, etc....
but not necessarily because the English King said so
...
My dis - recall of any such event doesn't mean it never happened, but I
sincerely doubt it.
My books are unavailable these days, but I seem to remember that there were
a couple HG's left over in his collection ... (after his demise, not
"after the burning")
I could be wrong, tho' . This seems to be one of them apocryphal stories.
There are some people who think that they can make up a lie to un- failably
sell something (e.g.) "If we can link Hurdy Gurdys to Henry VIII 's
unpopularity, we can sell these items BIG TIME!!!".
I would (did) buy a Gurdy on its own merit, but not because some foreign
king may have disliked it. But that's just me ... Do it or not within your
conscience.... IT'S YOUR CONSCIENCE ... (unless it's illegal in your
area....)
--
Kevin Hughes
<brun...@hotmail.com> Apr 09 09:42AM -0700
I suppose I should have been more precise with my question and asked if anyone
knew of any evidence of Henry VIII ordering the destruction of hurdy gurdies,
in England. The statement quoted sounded like bs to me, and I am well aware
that there are many hurdy gurdy makers out there. I'm also aware that Henry
VIII was the king of England
(from 1509 until 1547), and so was not surmising from original statement that
it was referring to destruction of hurdy gurdies anywhere other than in England.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 10:57:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [HG-new] Henry VIII and the hurdy gurdy
From: gurdy...@gmail.com
To: hurdy...@googlegroups.com
Uhm, ,,, No.
I am familiar with them HENRY VIII = THE DEVIL stories, but haven't heard them
much since the decline of radical feminism in the mid-seventies. Even the
radical Celtic-ism people ... (no, I'm not talking about basketball fans ... )
(Anyway...) They don't single him out as that evil. It wouldn't have had much
effect anyway.
Henry VIII was an English King.
Hurdy Gurdy wasn't very popular in England at the time.
Sometimes things that go on in England
also go on in France, Germany, Italy,
Spain,
etc.... but not necessarily because the English King said so ...
My dis - recall of any such event doesn't mean it never happened, but I
sincerely doubt it.
My books are unavailable these days, but I seem to remember that there were a
couple HG's left over in his collection ... (after his demise, not "after
the burning")
I could be wrong, tho' . This seems to be one of them apocryphal stories. There
are some people who think that they can make up a lie to un- failably sell
something (e.g.) "If we can link Hurdy Gurdys to Henry VIII 's
unpopularity, we can sell these items BIG TIME!!!".
I would (did) buy a Gurdy on its own merit, but not because some foreign king
may have disliked it. But that's just me ... Do it or not within your
conscience.... IT'S YOUR CONSCIENCE ... (unless it's illegal in your area....)
--
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Jon
Redpath <penic...@yahoo.co.uk>
Apr 09 08:08PM +0100
I have NEVER heard of this EVER, but I've only lived in Britain for 65
years. Anyone at many periods could be hanged for playing bagpipes after
proscribed hours. Technically any Scot can still have this punishment for
playing them anytime in Carlisle ( an English City).
From my research here in Scotland
the HG was only minimally popular around the time of Mary Queen of Scots.
Henry VIII and his RC chums (who were illegal to anyone at that time)
wrote some fabulous music. Like many English or Scots monarchs they were not as
bad as the history books portrayed them. JON
________________________________
From: Kevin Hughes <brun...@hotmail.com>
To: "hurdy...@googlegroups.com"
<hurdy...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012, 17:42
Subject: RE: [HG-new] Henry VIII and the hurdy gurdy
I suppose I should have been more precise with my question and asked
if anyone knew of any evidence of Henry VIII ordering the destruction
of hurdy gurdies, in England. The
statement quoted sounded like bs to me, and I am well aware that there are many
hurdy gurdy makers out there. I'm also aware that Henry VIII was the
king of England (from 1509
until 1547), and so was not surmising from original statement that it was
referring to destruction of hurdy gurdies anywhere other than in England.
________________________________
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 10:57:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [HG-new] Henry VIII and the hurdy gurdy
From: gurdy...@gmail.com
To: hurdy...@googlegroups.com
Uhm, ,,, No.
I am familiar with them HENRY VIII = THE DEVIL stories, but haven't heard
them much since the decline of radical feminism in the mid-seventies. Even the
radical Celtic-ism people ... (no, I'm not talking about basketball fans ... )
(Anyway...) They don't single him out as that evil. It wouldn't have had much
effect anyway.
Henry VIII was an English King.
Hurdy Gurdy wasn't very popular in England at the time.
Sometimes things that go on in England
also go on in France, Germany, Italy,
Spain,
etc.... but not necessarily because the English King said so ...
My dis - recall of any such event doesn't mean it never happened, but I sincerely
doubt it.
My books are unavailable these days, but I seem to remember that there were a
couple HG's left over in his collection ... (after his demise, not
"after the burning")
I could be wrong, tho' . This seems to be one of them apocryphal stories.
There are some people who think that they can make up a lie to un- failably
sell something (e.g.) "If we can link Hurdy Gurdys to Henry VIII 's
unpopularity, we can sell these items BIG TIME!!!".
I would (did) buy a Gurdy on its own merit, but not because some foreign king
may have disliked it. But that's just me ... Do it or not within your
conscience.... IT'S YOUR CONSCIENCE ... (unless it's illegal in your
area....)
>http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy
>
>The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm.
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