Which one is the correct answer among these 4 answer choices
Manda Ruby
(a) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not him.
(b) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not he.
(c) Xxxx xxxxx is that you should consult but not him
(d) Xxxx xxxxx is whom you should consult but not he.
I picked (d) but now I am wondering whether it's (a). Putting a,b, and
d in MS WORD , I got complaint on use of *he* but not on *who or who*.
It made no distinction on who or whom.
Thanks in adavnce on to anyone who helps me out.
Manda Ruby
Correction:
Thanks in advance to anyone who helps me with this question.
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Malrassic Park
wrote:
None of those four is correct. Why would anybody choose to speak in
the style of any of those four expressions anyway? But as a rule, "he"
is the subject of a sentence, while "him" is the object of a verb or
preposition; "who" is a subject, while "whom" is the object of a verb
or preposition.
Charles Bell
> (a) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not him.
> (b) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not he.
> (c) Xxxx xxxxx is that you should consult but not him
> (d) Xxxx xxxxx is whom you should consult but not he.
>
(e) X is whom you should consult, but not him. [Comma optional, but
clarifying] "Whom" and "him" are objects of "consult" It is really
better to say: "Do not consult him. Consult X."
x.
xx.
xxx.
xx.
x.
Mark N
> (a) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not him.
> (b) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not he.
> (c) Xxxx xxxxx is that you should consult but not him
> (d) Xxxx xxxxx is whom you should consult but not he.
>
> I picked (d) but now I am wondering whether it's (a). Putting a,b, and
> d in MS WORD , I got complaint on use of *he* but not on *who or who*.
> It made no distinction on who or whom.
I conjecture that MS Word's grammar-checking function is rather limited
and not very reliable. It probably questioned the word "he" just because
it doesn't expect to see that word at the end of a sentence. But it's
not always wrong to have "he" at the end of a sentence.
I think (d) is the right answer. "X is whom you should consult but not
he" can be understood as an elliptical way of saying, "X is whom you
should consult, but he is not whom you should consult." Not that any
normal person would ever talk that way, mind you.
Mark
Charles Bell
> Manda Ruby wrote:
> > (d) Xxxx xxxxx is whom you should consult but not he.
>
> I think (d) is the right answer.
You're wrong as usual. "He" is the object of "consult" and therefore
should be "him." The correct answer is none of the above. "He is the
one you should consult and not X." is better.
Manda Ruby
> On Nov 22, 5:32�pm, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (a) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not him.
> > (b) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not he.
> > (c) Xxxx xxxxx is that you should consult but not him
> > (d) Xxxx xxxxx is whom you should consult but not he.
>
Yup, that's what I thought would be the correct form. Though we were
told speak up about the questions, who had time during the test since
I wanted to use the time to check in filing my answers in the right
bubble, etc.? Tomorrow, I will contact them and raise this to their
attention.
>[Comma optional, but
> clarifying] �"Whom" and "him" are objects of "consult" �
Yeah. I just picked (d) because of "whom" in it and it was the only
choice with "whom" in it.
> It is really better to say: "Do not consult him. Consult X."
It was in the wriiten test I had to take for Environmental Health
field.
I wonder how many of other questions in the grammar area were like
that. Good thing that written test is weighted 30% of the exam.
Manda Ruby
But the truly correct answer was not given as a choice on the test.
In that light, wouldn't d be the choice to pick and understood as the
way Mark explained?
Manda Ruby
> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:32:02 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
Thanks to my Mom who taught us English grammer duirng our elementary
years - we didn't learn English in school until 5th grade, I have
learned that much very well. But those were the only choices given in
the test. What would you pick if you were in my shoe?
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Manda Ruby
But, given the 4 choices, wouldn't what Mark explained would rule as
the correct answer choice?
Jim Klein
> Tomorrow, I will contact them and raise this to their
> attention.
Charles is whom you want to consult, not them.
You should consult with Charles, not them.
You can add the "but" to either sentence, but
I'd say better not since it doesn't add anything,
much less the usual function of "but," which is
more than merely contradicting an object.
I can't figure out why he (Charles) thinks "he" is
usually the subject of a sentence, since it often isn't.
Besides subordinated clauses like that, there's also
the common case where "he" acts objective following
any form (I think) of "to be," as in, "It was he." OTOH
most people these days say, "It was him," which most
nitpickers would say is incorrect. But since none of
them knows what "incorrect" means in this context
anyway, I'd say maybe it's them that are wrong.
Best wishes to you and your'n. I hope youse guys
figure it out.
jk
Charles Bell
>
> But the truly correct answer �was not given as a choice on the test.
> In that light, wouldn't d be the choice to pick and understood as the
> way Mark explained?
That is to say the correct answer is to leave out a few words and hope
nobody notices. Considering that you say the test was in Environmenal
Health field, that is a proable way of looking at it. Perhaps Mark has
experience in bureaucrat-ese.
Manda Ruby
A friend of mine - he's an American btw, insisted that (b) and (d)
could not be answer choice because of at the end of senstence. In the
process, he sent me the link
http://www.englishpage.com/minitutorials/who_whom.html
There, I saw a section on "whom" becoming less commonly used,
especially in US and I have to agree with them but I then I see/hear a
lot of people using wrong Grammar:) Anyway, given the following
section, I guess, the answer choice would be (a). Darn it!
"Whom" Less Common
The form "whom" is becoming less and less common in English. Many
native English speakers think "whom" sounds outdated or strange. This
trend is particularly common in the United States. Especially when
combined with prepositions, most people prefer to use "who" as the
object pronoun. To most native English speakers, the examples below
sound quite natural.
Examples:
Who did you come to the party with?
I don't know who he gave the book to.
That is the woman who I was talking to.
Who did you get that from?
Do you have any idea who he sold his car to?
That is the person who I got the information from.
Charles Bell
> On Nov 22, 2:38�pm, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 2:32�pm, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > (a) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not him.
> > > (b) Xxxx xxxxx is who you should consult but not he.
> > > (c) Xxxx xxxxx is that you should consult but not him
> > > (d) Xxxx xxxxx is whom you should consult but not he.
>
>
> The form "whom" is becoming less and less common in English. Many
> native English speakers think "whom" sounds outdated or strange. This
> trend is particularly common in the United States. Especially when
> combined with prepositions, most people prefer to use "who" as the
> object pronoun. To most native English speakers, the examples below
> sound quite natural.
>
> Examples:
>
> Who did you come to the party with?
> I don't know who he gave the book to.
> That is the woman who I was talking to.
> Who did you get that from?
> Do you have any idea who he sold his car to?
> That is the person who I got the information from.
These are examples of splitting the object of a preposition from the
preposition (sometimes called a dangling preposition) -- something
which is also not proper English but used commonly. In spoken
English it is normal to say: "Who are you speaking to?" rather than
"To whom are you speaking?" However, that is not what is going on in
(a). People also say: "Who did you hit?" rather than the proper: "Whom
did you hit?" Only then is (a) the right choice for informal, but not
proper, English. Choice (d) is similar to the form: "Who is taller
than I?" which is really: "Who is taller than I am tall?" MSWord
grammar checker will also not like "... than I", but it is correct.
Then again, (c) is informally correct because both "that" and "him"
are properly in the objective, but "that" is only a proper word choice
if Xxxx xxxxx is a thing and not a person as in "The dictionary is
that (which) you should consult but not him."
Jim Klein
> In spoken
> English it is normal to say: "Who are you speaking to?" rather than
> "To whom are you speaking?" However, that is not what is going on in
> (a). People also say: "Who did you hit?" rather than the proper: "Whom
> did you hit?" Only then is (a) the right choice for informal, but not
> proper, English.
That may not be right. "I hit him" is obviously correct, but
"It was he that I hit" is also correct since the verb "to be"
takes the subjective form, even when used objectively...
at least for pronouns.
With that in mind, I suppose "a)" is the most correct of the
four given choices, though I still prefer your wording. And
I still don't think the "but" should be in there. As far as the
dangling preposition, wasn't it Churchill who said, "That
is the sort of English, up with which I will not put"?
jk
Reggie Perrin
> On Nov 23, 5:49 am, Charles Bell <cbel...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> In spoken
>> English it is normal to say: "Who are you speaking to?" rather than
>> "To whom are you speaking?" However, that is not what is going on in
>> (a). People also say: "Who did you hit?" rather than the proper: "Whom
>> did you hit?" Only then is (a) the right choice for informal, but not
>> proper, English.
Launce: "Can nothing speak? Master, shall I strike?"
Proteus: "Who wouldst thou strike?"
Launce: "Nothing."
-- William Shakespeare, _The Two Gentlemen of Verona_
Objective "who" and nominative "whom" are relatively uncommon but not
improper. The term "proper English" in the quoted text reflects little
more than the writer's own prejudices.
Charles Bell
> The term "proper English" in the quoted text reflects little
> more than the writer's own prejudices.
r u sure?
Charles Bell
> On Nov 23, 5:49 am, Charles Bell <cbel...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > In spoken
> > English it is normal to say: "Who are you speaking to?" rather than
> > "To whom are you speaking?" � However, that is not what is going on in
> > (a). People also say: "Who did you hit?" rather than the proper: "Whom
> > did you hit?" Only then is (a) the right choice for informal, but not
> > proper, English.
>
> That may not be right. �"I hit him" is obviously correct, but
> "It was he that I hit" is also correct since the verb "to be"
> takes the subjective form, even when used objectively...
> at least for pronouns.
>
Structurely, this is: (It was he) that I hit, where the phrase (it was
he) acts as the accusative oblique of being hit equal in usage to
"him". There is a good reason in narratives to put it that way if a
prior reference defines who "he" is : "That angry man over there is my
brother, and it was he who hit me" rather than "My angry brother hit
me."
I like keeping what little case inflection English has and not be so
dependent on word order. Immediately, without reading the whole
sentence one can tell that "whom" is the objective of something;
whereas "who" (vulgar informal) does not. One of my pet peeves is
"between you and I" instead of the proper case-inflective "between you
and me" which once was "between thee and me". "You" has lost all
case-inflection in English, having done away with the nominative you
(informal) "thou."
> With that in mind, I suppose "a)" is the most correct of the
> four given choices, though I still prefer your wording. �And
> I still don't think the "but" should be in there. �As far as the
> dangling preposition, wasn't it Churchill who said, "That
> is the sort of English, up with which I will not put"?
Yes, in English too often the exception to the rule is the better
choice. Even "With which I will not put up" is odd.
Mark N
> On Nov 22, 7:38 pm, Mark N <m...@myinboxisbroken.com> wrote:
>
>>I think (d) is the right answer.
>
> You're wrong as usual. [...]
Thanks for the encouragement, Charles. I'm hoping to set a new record
for the longest unbroken string of wrong posts! :-)
Mark
Jim Klein
> Thanks for the encouragement, Charles. I'm hoping to set a new record
> for the longest unbroken string of wrong posts! :-)
LOL. That would be an interesting award for Charles
to give.
My guess is---a 100-way tie for first!
jk