This is to those who feel *superior*
Amanda
the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
Turkey, Will you?
Offended? Well intended.
My favorite quote is still Einstein's
"Only two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. I am
not sure about the former."
Sayonara
Robert J. Kolker
Apparently you cannot accept humans (homosapiens) for what they are: the
Smartest, Baddest Apes in The Monkey House. We are as we evolved. We
could be no other. Rejoice in our essences since there is no alternative.
Bob Kolker
Puppet_Sock
> Remember those savages killed by the blankets given by those so called
> the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
> Turkey, Will you?
You must be eager to get to your 12th birthday party.
Socks
Malrassic Park
<now...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>Amanda wrote:
>> Remember those savages killed by the blankets given by those so called
>> the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
>> Turkey, Will you?
.
>> Offended? Well intended.
.
>> My favorite quote is still Einstein's
>> "Only two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. I am
>> not sure about the former."
.
>> Sayonara
.
>Apparently you cannot accept humans (homosapiens) for what they are: the
>Smartest, Baddest Apes in The Monkey House. We are as we evolved. We
>could be no other. Rejoice in our essences since there is no alternative.
And these apes should all be speaking "Engrish" while their own native
languages slowly revert to the status of ancient Greek.
John Alway
Amanda wrote:
> Remember those savages killed by the blankets given by those so called
> the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
> Turkey, Will you?
I have no idea what you're talking about, but if people throughout
the world would adopt individual rights and capitalism, there would be
much greater prosperity and much less misery and thuggery. There is
something you can work on and try and spread in Burma if you are as
concerned about those people as you claim to be.
There is your answer.
Amanda
John Alway wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
> > Remember those savages killed by the blankets given by those so called
> > the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
> > Turkey, Will you?
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about,
I just feel funny that Thanksgiving day is celebrated while those
people became extinct.
> but if people throughout
> the world would adopt individual rights and capitalism, there would be
> much greater prosperity and much less misery and thuggery.
It is not because of lack of individual rights that peopel are
suffering. People are suffering because they are homo sapiens.
>There is something you can work on and try and spread in Burma if you are as
> concerned about those people as you claim to be.
Frankly, I think we need to kill the thugs like saddam was handled but
no so-called nations of democracy would help us except paying lip
service.
>
> There is your answer.
What was my question?
Robert J. Kolker
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about, but if people throughout
It was a nasty weapon. Blankets that wrapped people who died of small
pox were given to some of the indian tribes "to keep them warm". Some gift.
"One of the most contentious issues relating to disease and depopulation
in the Americas concerns the degree to which American indigenous peoples
were intentionally infected with diseases such as smallpox. Despite some
legends to the contrary, there seems to be no evidence that the Spanish
ever attempted to deliberately infect the American natives.[9]
However, there is at least one documented incident in which British
soldiers in North America attempted to intentionally infect native
people. During Pontiac's Rebellion in 1763, a number of Native Americans
launched a widespread war against British soldiers and settlers in an
attempt to drive the British out of the Great Lakes region. In what is
now western Pennsylvania, Native Americans (primarily Delawares) laid
siege to Fort Pitt on June 22, 1763. Surrounded and isolated, and with
over 200 women and children in the fort, the commander of Fort Pitt gave
representatives of the besieging Delawares two blankets that had been
exposed to smallpox in an attempt to infect the natives and end the siege.
British General Jeffrey Amherst is usually associated with this
incident, and although he suggested this tactic in a letter to a
subordinate, by that time the commander at Fort Pitt had already made
the attempt. While it is certain that these officers attempted to
intentionally infect American Indians with smallpox, it is uncertain
whether or not the attempt was successful. Because many natives in the
area died from smallpox in 1763, some writers have concluded that the
attempt was indeed a success. A number of recent scholars, however, have
noted that evidence for connecting the blanket incident with the
smallpox outbreak is doubtful, and that the disease was more likely
spread by native warriors returning from attacks on infected white
settlements.[10]
A disputed incident is Ward Churchill's claim that in 1837 the United
States Army deliberately infected Mandan Indians by distributing
blankets that had been exposed to smallpox. Most other historians who
have looked at the same event disagree with Churchill's interpretation
of the historical evidence, and believe no deliberate introduction
occurred at this time and place.[11][12]"
See the whole piece at in the wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples
Two of the things that Made America Great were land theft and genocide.
That is how the West Was Won.
Bob Kolker
Malrassic Park
Notice that she capitalized the word "turkey." Is Amanda now accusing
the US of economic colonialism or empiricalist aggression against the
country of Turkey? On Turkey Day? Which non-Jewish country will the
world-dominating US swallow a bite of next? And will the US give its
#1 ally Israel a piece of the Muslim pie?
Dan Lind
Amanda wrote:
>
> What was my question?
Perhaps that's the problem, that you haven't asked the question.
Dan Lind
Malrassic Park
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
snip
> A disputed incident is Ward Churchill's claim that in 1837 the United
> States Army deliberately infected Mandan Indians by distributing
> blankets that had been exposed to smallpox. Most other historians who
> have looked at the same event disagree with Churchill's interpretation
> of the historical evidence, and believe no deliberate introduction
> occurred at this time and place.[11][12]"
> See the whole piece at in the wikipedia article
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_pe
> oples
.
> Two of the things that Made America Great were land theft and genocide.
> That is how the West Was Won.
This works both ways. The Indians brought us tobacco and, naturally,
cardiovascular disease.
Ken Gardner
>I just feel funny that Thanksgiving day is celebrated while those
>people became extinct.
What's it to you? You never knew any of them. They have been gone
for over a hundred years.
Ken
Reggie Perrin
For "I feel funny" read "I think you should feel guilty". Interesting,
if somewhat depressing, to see how all the usual pathologies have
emerged after a little prodding.
Matt Barrow
"John Alway" <jal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164301668.3...@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Amanda wrote:
>> Remember those savages killed by the blankets given by those so called
>> the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
>> Turkey, Will you?
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about,
Disease infested blankets given to the American aborigines.
She's making a general statement for a specific instance. Typical from such
a brick-brained nutcase such as she is.
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)
Robert J. Kolker
>
> This works both ways. The Indians brought us tobacco and, naturally,
> cardiovascular disease.
And gambling casinos.
1742 - Chief Walking Crow
1862 - Chief Sitting Bull
1992 - Chief Rolling Dicce
Bob Kolker
Amanda
Reggie Perrin wrote:
> Ken Gardner wrote:
> > Amanda wrote:
> >
> >> I just feel funny that Thanksgiving day is celebrated while those
> >> people became extinct.
> >
> > What's it to you? You never knew any of them. They have been gone
> > for over a hundred years.
>
> For "I feel funny" read "I think you should feel guilty".
Are you that insecure? I really feel *amusingly* funny, especially
after learning about the blanket thing. Take it at face-value or leave
it; don't twist it.
>Interesting, if somewhat depressing,
Then take anti-depressant.
> to see how all the usual pathologies have emerged after a little prodding.
What if I told you that the instructor of a class I am taking showed us
a little cartoon last night about the Indians consulting the wise owls
about letting *those* people stay. The class was dead quiet after
that. And I became more amused the way Thanksgiving has become such a
BIG holiday here. But turkey tastes damn good and so I am not
complaining. My visiting brother loves it too. In the middle of eating,
he said he wants to see a bunch of them together, meaning live ones.
He said he saw two of them, raised by someone where he grew up -
different city than I did, when he was young. I haven't seen a live
one yet.
John Alway
Amanda wrote:
[...]
> > to see how all the usual pathologies have emerged after a little prodding.
> What if I told you that the instructor of a class I am taking showed us
> a little cartoon last night about the Indians consulting the wise owls
> about letting *those* people stay.
What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
>... The class was dead quiet after
> that.
It's easy to mislead the ignorant.
>.. And I became more amused the way Thanksgiving has become such a
> BIG holiday here.
Odds are you are getting massively biased propaganda. Modern
universities in the humanities are big for that sort of thing. They
*love* to vilify America, and they will lie through their teeth to do
it. America is a great country, the greatest, and they like to bring
it down.
Take Ward Churchill who Bob Kolker references. The guy is a known
liar. He even lied about being an Indian (native American Indian).
I assure you, Amanda, I feel *zero guilt*. I've done *nothing
wrong*, and I don't appreciate you attempting to inculcate unearned
guilt.
...John
fred...@papertig.com
> he said he wants to see a bunch of them together, meaning live ones.
> He said he saw two of them, raised by someone where he grew up -
> different city than I did, when he was young. I haven't seen a live
> one yet.
We get small flocks of 6-10 wild turkeys with some frequency in my area
(the Catskill Mts). I've had a flock strutting and pecking its way
across my lawn a few times. The other day I had to stop my car so a
flock could cross the road. One time some years ago while walking in
the woods I ran into a nest of baby turkeys. It was interesting to
watch the mother perform the "feinting/wounded" routine to draw me away
from the nest.
As for the native Indians, there's such a blatant contradiction going
on there. On the one hand everyone acknowledges that they were
constantly fighting and killing each other. (In fact didn't the tribe
that helped the Pilgrims befriend them in the hopes that they would be
allies against their neighboring tribes?) Look at it this way. We
became "the tribe" that defeated them. Not much worse than what they
had been doing toward each other for the millenia prior to our arrival.
Furthermore, those Indians that have survived and chosen to prosper by
taking advantage of Western culture were given an enormous gift - the
opportunity to literally leap centuries of development from virtual
Stone Age cultures.
It's beside the point anyway. It was impossible - flat-out impossible -
for us to have co-existed peacefully with them. The cultural clash was
too great. So, it was either them or us. We have nothing to apologize
for.
(I'm sure this will prompt some KAL algorithm, probably the Cherokee
one).
Fred Weiss
Ken Gardner
>It's beside the point anyway. It was impossible - flat-out impossible -
>for us to have co-existed peacefully with them. The cultural clash was
>too great. So, it was either them or us. We have nothing to apologize
>for.
>(I'm sure this will prompt some KAL algorithm, probably the Cherokee
>one).
If this happens, you will be punished -- severely -- for your crimes.
The HPO Deja Vu Police
Chris Cathcart
On Nov 23, 10:16 am, Amanda <amanda772...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Remember those savages killed by the blankets given by those so called
> the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
> Turkey, Will you?
>
> Offended? Well intended.
Does the HPO Image King have a Kook Alert pic?
n
n
n
n
n
Jim Klein
> As for the native Indians, there's such a blatant contradiction going
> on there. On the one hand everyone acknowledges that they were
> constantly fighting and killing each other.
Since when did everyone acknowledging something, become some standard for
the truth? How does a Subjectivist go about it?
Doesn't really matter as the claim is false anyway, as you very well know
since you've had arguments with people who do not so acknowledge.
In fact, the only reason /you/ acknowledge this, is because of your
willingness to evade valid and substantiated information which was made
available to you.
That's why I'll never let you go on this. It's one thing to be ignorant of
something, as so many are about this issue. At the very least, we know
that lots of west coast natives behaved nothing like you imply here.
But willful evasion is quite a worse thing than simple ignorance. And
that's exactly what you've had to engage to pretend you don't know any
better. That, and typical ad hominem bullshit as if the source of
validated information somehow makes the information invalid.
Why don't you just do the right thing on this topic for a change, and point
out to the ignorant masses that they tend to overgeneralize and
collectivize? Denouncing collectivism /is/ approved by your leaders, yes?
BTW, what was the other hand of the blatant contradiction you were
explaining? I think you left that part out. What a shock.
jk
Amanda
John Alway wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > to see how all the usual pathologies have emerged after a little pro
> > > dding.
> > What if I told you that the instructor of a class I am taking showed us
> > a little cartoon last night about the Indians consulting the wise owls
> > about letting *those* people stay.
>
> What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
Now, now John, don't gets so snesitive. It's just a low level a
database class - I am in there because I want to dot he homework
assignment. The instructor routinely shows some short videos at every
class meeting. One of them (last week I think was) a song by Hillary
and Condi Rice slapping each other with words in the race for
presidency. It was just a bit dirty for my tase with Hillary saying
that Rice couldn't even keep a man while Rice saying something about
Bill Clinton's pant.
>
> >... The class was dead quiet after
> > that.
>
> It's easy to mislead the ignorant.
Do I look like I will be in liberal arts class?
>
> >.. And I became more amused the way Thanksgiving has become such a
> > BIG holiday here.
>
> Odds are you are getting massively biased propaganda. Modern
> universities in the humanities are big for that sort of thing. They
> *love* to vilify America, and they will lie through their teeth to do
> it. America is a great country, the greatest, and they like to bring
> it down.
Do I look like I will be in liberal arts class?
>
> Take Ward Churchill who Bob Kolker references. The guy is a known
> liar. He even lied about being an Indian (native American Indian).
Do I look like I will be in liberal arts class?
> I assure you, Amanda, I feel *zero guilt*. I've done *nothing
> wrong*, and I don't appreciate you attempting to inculcate unearned
> guilt.
Do I look like I will be in liberal arts class?
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
>
>
> ...John
Amanda
fred...@papertig.com wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
>
> > he said he wants to see a bunch of them together, meaning live ones.
> > He said he saw two of them, raised by someone where he grew up -
> > different city than I did, when he was young. I haven't seen a live
> > one yet.
>
> We get small flocks of 6-10 wild turkeys with some frequency in my area
> (the Catskill Mts). I've had a flock strutting and pecking its way
> across my lawn a few times. The other day I had to stop my car so a
> flock could cross the road. One time some years ago while walking in
> the woods I ran into a nest of baby turkeys. It was interesting to
> watch the mother perform the "feinting/wounded" routine to draw me away
> from the nest.
I have seen a flock of them in one TV show. I am not sure whether he
did since my brother said - he's staying at my sister's palce who is
out of the country at the moment - he doesn't watch TV during the day.
There might be some farm around here that I could take him with no
trouble but I already feel too much pressure to take him to some places
in December because I am tight with time.
>
> As for the native Indians, there's such a blatant contradiction going
> on there. On the one hand everyone acknowledges that they were
> constantly fighting and killing each other. (In fact didn't the tribe
> that helped the Pilgrims befriend them in the hopes that they would be
> allies against their neighboring tribes?) Look at it this way.
> We became "the tribe" that defeated them.
Like Armenians are minority in today Turkey and Assyrians are in Iran:)
> Not much worse than what they
> had been doing toward each other for the millenia prior to our arrival.
I read that some tribes were quite peaceful.
>
> Furthermore, those Indians that have survived and chosen to prosper by
> taking advantage of Western culture were given an enormous gift - the
> opportunity to literally leap centuries of development from virtual
> Stone Age cultures.
>
> It's beside the point anyway. It was impossible - flat-out impossible -
> for us to have co-existed peacefully with them. The cultural clash was
> too great. So, it was either them or us.
> We have nothing to apologize for.
You gotta admit that it was not nice to pretend caring and giving them
blankets with intention to kill them.
> (I'm sure this will prompt some KAL algorithm, probably the Cherokee
> one).
I heard that Cherokee were the most ..hmm. what's the word, fierce?
fighters.
Amanda
fred...@papertig.com wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
>
> > he said he wants to see a bunch of them together, meaning live ones.
> > He said he saw two of them, raised by someone where he grew up -
> > different city than I did, when he was young. I haven't seen a live
> > one yet.
>
> We get small flocks of 6-10 wild turkeys with some frequency in my area
> (the Catskill Mts). I've had a flock strutting and pecking its way
> across my lawn a few times. The other day I had to stop my car so a
> flock could cross the road. One time some years ago while walking in
> the woods I ran into a nest of baby turkeys. It was interesting to
> watch the mother perform the "feinting/wounded" routine to draw me away
> from the nest.
I have seen a flock of them in one TV show. I am not sure whether he
did since my brother said - he's staying at my sister's palce who is
out of the country at the moment - he doesn't watch TV during the day.
There might be some farm around here that I could take him with no
trouble but I already feel too much pressure to take him to some places
in December because I am tight with time.
>
> As for the native Indians, there's such a blatant contradiction going
> on there. On the one hand everyone acknowledges that they were
> constantly fighting and killing each other. (In fact didn't the tribe
> that helped the Pilgrims befriend them in the hopes that they would be
> allies against their neighboring tribes?) Look at it this way.
> We became "the tribe" that defeated them.
Like Armenians are minority in today Turkey and Assyrians are in Iran:)
> Not much worse than what they
> had been doing toward each other for the millenia prior to our arrival.
I read that some tribes were quite peaceful.
>
> Furthermore, those Indians that have survived and chosen to prosper by
> taking advantage of Western culture were given an enormous gift - the
> opportunity to literally leap centuries of development from virtual
> Stone Age cultures.
>
> It's beside the point anyway. It was impossible - flat-out impossible -
> for us to have co-existed peacefully with them. The cultural clash was
> too great. So, it was either them or us.
> We have nothing to apologize for.
You gotta admit that it was not nice to pretend caring and giving them
blankets with intention to kill them.
> (I'm sure this will prompt some KAL algorithm, probably the Cherokee
> one).
I heard that Cherokee were the most ..hmm. what's the word, fierce?
Amanda
fred...@papertig.com wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
>
> > he said he wants to see a bunch of them together, meaning live ones.
> > He said he saw two of them, raised by someone where he grew up -
> > different city than I did, when he was young. I haven't seen a live
> > one yet.
>
> We get small flocks of 6-10 wild turkeys with some frequency in my area
> (the Catskill Mts). I've had a flock strutting and pecking its way
> across my lawn a few times. The other day I had to stop my car so a
> flock could cross the road. One time some years ago while walking in
> the woods I ran into a nest of baby turkeys. It was interesting to
> watch the mother perform the "feinting/wounded" routine to draw me away
> from the nest.
I have seen a flock of them in one TV show. I am not sure whether he
did since my brother said - he's staying at my sister's palce who is
out of the country at the moment - he doesn't watch TV during the day.
There might be some farm around here that I could take him with no
trouble but I already feel too much pressure to take him to some places
in December because I am tight with time.
>
> As for the native Indians, there's such a blatant contradiction going
> on there. On the one hand everyone acknowledges that they were
> constantly fighting and killing each other. (In fact didn't the tribe
> that helped the Pilgrims befriend them in the hopes that they would be
> allies against their neighboring tribes?) Look at it this way.
> We became "the tribe" that defeated them.
Like Armenians are minority in today Turkey and Assyrians are in Iran:)
> Not much worse than what they
> had been doing toward each other for the millenia prior to our arrival.
I read that some tribes were quite peaceful.
>
> Furthermore, those Indians that have survived and chosen to prosper by
> taking advantage of Western culture were given an enormous gift - the
> opportunity to literally leap centuries of development from virtual
> Stone Age cultures.
>
> It's beside the point anyway. It was impossible - flat-out impossible -
> for us to have co-existed peacefully with them. The cultural clash was
> too great. So, it was either them or us.
> We have nothing to apologize for.
You gotta admit that it was not nice to pretend caring and giving them
blankets with intention to kill them.
> (I'm sure this will prompt some KAL algorithm, probably the Cherokee
> one).
I heard that Cherokee were the most ..hmm. what's the word, fierce?
fred...@papertig.com
> fred...@papertig.com wrote:
> > We became "the tribe" that defeated them.
> Like Armenians are minority in today Turkey and Assyrians are in Iran:)
Not analogous. The Armenians were bothering no one and represented no
actual threat to the Turks. Their "crime" was not being Muslim.
> > Not much worse than what they
> > had been doing toward each other for the millenia prior to our arrival.
>
> I read that some tribes were quite peaceful.
You mean subjugated by some other tribe(s) which were not peaceful? I'm
sure there was such tribes, that if they had attempted war against
their stronger and more brutal neighbors they would have been
annihilated. So they kept their heads down and hoped they would be left
alone. How successful a strategy that was and for how long I don't
know.
Contra JK's accusation, I don't claim to be an expert on the Indians.
> You gotta admit that it was not nice to pretend caring and giving them
> blankets with intention to kill them.
I don't know how common a practice that was. It was hardly necessary.
The Indians died like flies and in huge numbers from diseases brought
over by the whites and against which they had no natural immunity. It
was just as well. It made the few remaining ones easier to control.
> > (I'm sure this will prompt some KAL algorithm, probably the Cherokee
> > one).
>
> I heard that Cherokee were the most ..hmm. what's the word, fierce?
> fighters.
Originally, yes they were - and slave holders, I might add. I doubt
anyone would cite them as examples of those supposed "peaceful"
Indians. They were known to be extremely war-like and fierce warriors.
They also fought on the side of the British in the Amer. Revolution, as
did many of the other tribes.
However, later - in a rare instance of it - they embraced white culture
and did try to assimilate up to a point. In a later, less bigoted
cultural atmosphere they might have been persuaded to fully assimilate
and become American citizens, fully governed by our laws. We'll never
know. They were forced to relocate to a reservation - in Oklahoma I
believe.
Fred Weiss
John Alway
Amanda wrote:
> John Alway wrote:
> > Amanda wrote:
[...]
> > What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
> Now, now John, don't gets so snesitive. It's just a low level a
> database class - I am in there because I want to dot he homework
> assignment.
What motivated you to post the original posting to this thread?
Where did you get the story?
> > >... The class was dead quiet after
> > > that.
> > It's easy to mislead the ignorant.
> Do I look like I will be in liberal arts class?
I can't see you Amanda, but I can read (sort of) what you wrote.
...John
Ken Gardner
>> Offended? Well intended.
>
>Does the HPO Image King have a Kook Alert pic?
Will this do?
Or maybe this:
The HPO Image King
Robert J. Kolker
>
>
>>(I'm sure this will prompt some KAL algorithm, probably the Cherokee
>>one).
>
>
> I heard that Cherokee were the most ..hmm. what's the word, fierce?
> fighters.
Actually not. The Apache and the Lakhota were the fiercest. The Pawnee
were also pretty nasty.
The Cherokee were counted among the "civilized" aborignal nation/tribes.
They were mostly agricularal and were used to the idea of land
ownership. This did not save them from Adrew Jackson, the stone killer.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
>
> I don't know how common a practice that was. It was hardly necessary.
> The Indians died like flies and in huge numbers from diseases brought
> over by the whites and against which they had no natural immunity. It
> was just as well. It made the few remaining ones easier to control.
That was mostly the Aztec. The plains tribes were not decimated by disease.
The small pox plague brought by the Spanish killed over six million Aztec.
By the way the Aztec in some respects were more advanced that the
Spanish. They took regular baths, had running water toilets (at least in
their major cities) and had base twenty arithmetic notation. On the
other hand the Spaniards had germs, guns and steel. Guess who won?
Bob Kolker
Matt Barrow
<fred...@papertig.com> wrote in message
news:1164429702.0...@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Amanda wrote:
>> fred...@papertig.com wrote:
>
> However, later - in a rare instance of it - they embraced white culture
> and did try to assimilate up to a point. In a later, less bigoted
> cultural atmosphere they might have been persuaded to fully assimilate
> and become American citizens, fully governed by our laws. We'll never
> know. They were forced to relocate to a reservation - in Oklahoma I
> believe.
>
you would notice little contrast from surrounding areas off the reservation.
This is in marked contrast to other tribes that still are 100 years behind.
One can see a dividing line between their reservation lands and "white"
lands that abut the reservations.
Many are willing to break away and establish themselves in the modern world,
but the overwhelming majority are unwilling to cut the apron strings. Like
other groups, they set the standards for dependency behavior.
Amanda
John Alway wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
> > John Alway wrote:
> > > Amanda wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
>
> > Now, now John, don't gets so snesitive. It's just a low level a
> > database class - I am in there because I want to dot he homework
> > assignment.
>
> What motivated you to post the original posting to this thread?
Think about it. They're called savages by the whites but the whites,
who called themselves citvilized, killed them in savage manner.
> Where did you get the story?
You mean the blanket story? I think it was the man of host couple on a
Thanksgiving day; I knew them very well. He always talked to me about
differrent things in politcal nature. But a while before that, I had
some preface to the story at a dinner table at a conference that my
graduate advisor took me and the technician, a American female just 4
years older than me who was working for him. We were at a table with 3
other professors, two of them were young, and one was obviously a nice
guy, i.e honest person unlike the other one who was causcious about
what to say and what not to say in front of me, the foreigner.
It was in November. The three of them were talking about children
movies at first. I wasn't paying close attention but then the nice one
said, "if we didn't, they would have killed us" and I realized that
there must have been some serious killing. The other looked at me,
noticing my attentive composure, I guess. They didn't continue with
that topic in detail.
Malrassic Park
<amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
.
>John Alway wrote:
>> Amanda wrote:
>> > John Alway wrote:
>> > > Amanda wrote:
.
>> > > What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
.
>> > Now, now John, don't gets so snesitive. It's just a low level a
>> > database class - I am in there because I want to dot he homework
>> > assignment.
.
>> What motivated you to post the original posting to this thread?
.
>Think about it. They're called savages by the whites but the whites,
>who called themselves citvilized, killed them in savage manner.
No, you think about it. Ironic rhetoric aside: the savages used savage
'manners,' the civilized used technology. Technology won, of course.
John Alway
Amanda wrote:
> John Alway wrote:
> > Amanda wrote:
> > > John Alway wrote:
> > > > Amanda wrote:
> > [...]
> > > > What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
> > > Now, now John, don't gets so snesitive. It's just a low level a
> > > database class - I am in there because I want to dot he homework
> > > assignment.
> > What motivated you to post the original posting to this thread?
> Think about it. They're called savages by the whites but the whites,
> who called themselves citvilized, killed them in savage manner.
Whites can be savage as much as anyone. The point is, they also
achieved the highest level of civility at the time.
> > Where did you get the story?
> You mean the blanket story? I think it was the man of host couple on a
> Thanksgiving day;
About the blanket story, it appears to be completely false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples
[quote]
One of the most contentious issues relating to disease and
depopulation in the Americas concerns the degree to which American
indigenous peoples were intentionally infected with diseases such as
smallpox. Despite some legends to the contrary, there seems to be no
evidence that the Spanish ever attempted to deliberately infect the
American natives.[9]
[/quote]
So, what is the motivation for spreadig *false* propaganda? You're
not to blame, but why is it out there, and why are "professors"
spreading it?
...John
John Alway
Agent Cooper wrote:
> On Nov 25, 11:03 am, John Alway <jal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > About the blanket story, it appears to be completely false.
>
> documented episode.
You mean as a counter tactic during a war. I don't see anything
wrong with that.
Here is the quote.
[quote]
However, there is at least one documented incident in which British
soldiers in North America attempted to intentionally infect native
people. During Pontiac's Rebellion in 1763, a number of Native
Americans launched a widespread war against British soldiers and
settlers in an attempt to drive the British out of the Great Lakes
region. In what is now western Pennsylvania, Native Americans
(primarily Delawares) laid siege to Fort Pitt on June 22, 1763.
Surrounded and isolated, and with over 200 women and children in the
fort, the commander of Fort Pitt gave representatives of the besieging
Delawares two blankets that had been exposed to smallpox in an attempt
to infect the natives and end the siege.
[/quote]
> This whole epic is far too complicated to sort out
> here,
The story Amanda gave is being contested as not being supported by
evidence. In the context of postmodernism and the willingness of
historians, such as Ward Churchill, to fabricate "facts" to impugn the
West, you have to be especially critical.
>.. but I should stress (did stress) a point which no one picked up
> on: there being no principled geographical or demographic division to
> be made between different sorts of Amerindian populations based on what
> nation-state they currently find themselves in, the fact is that there
> are huge quantitites of descendants of the aboriginals. Every time you
> notice the the darker skin color of a "Hispanic" recall that this is
> not a European origin phenotype. 30% of Mexico doesn't even speak
> Spanish. The causes of the decline (though hardly a decline to nothing)
> have mostly to do with competing land use practices and demographics,
> and the epidemiological consequences of suddenly mixing two previously
> separated populations, one of which had developed immunity over a long
> period of time to various pathogens, the other of which had not, having
> never been exposed. In short, it was largely a natural and unplanned
> economic phenomenon.
Right. It makes no sense to morally condemn people for that which
is outside of their control. The claim that Europeans brought disease
is true (and I'm sure it worked the other way as well), but this is
simply nature at work, not mankind.
>.... The paradigm is aboriginal groups using land in
> non-agricultural ways, Europeans coming into that space to cultivate
> what appears to be raw, unused land, and the aboriginal group
> responding by leaving or by trying to drive off the settlers, often
> provoking a response, and leading again to the aboriginals leaving.
> It's a phenomenon more akin to "urban sprawl" or "gentrification" than
> to the Holocaust.
Absolutely. The word "holocaust" is applied in order to vilify
people, not because it holds any accuracy, which is funny coming from
nomonalists who don't believe there is a right or wrong.
> The motivation for any propaganda is clear: power. As Nietzsche
> explains, when a group doesn't stand a chance against a superior force
> or social faction, it does always have the option of guilting them into
> surrender.
...except that I consider this to be self-inflicted, more than
inspired by those of other cultures. There is a strong sense among
some "intellectuals" that self-effacement is good, and egoism is bad.
They also have a problem with inequality of any sort.
>... The pro-Amerindian propaganda, which in my experience never
> emanates from Amerindians themselves, who are mostly interested in
> getting on with things, is to inspire a nebulous, pervasive, deep
> self-hatred.
Right. In fact, most native Americans are just part of the
population, doing their own thing.
>... Then nothing specific of value will be defended because
> one loses confidence in the whole thing. Surrender then creates a power
> vacuum and one can step into it.
> The fate of the aboriginal cultures is sad in a way, and there has been
> violent conflict (find me a geographical region on earth since the
> invention of agriculture that is peaceful), but there's no basis for
> comparison between the Western/Aboriginal interaction and modern
> genocides and democides, in which whole peoples were annihilated in a
> short time frame as the expression of state policy.
You know what, the fate of the culture is not sad. Think of the old
druid culture, and how good it is that was replaced.
> This has nothing to do with its being an America-friendly thought. When
> I was in Germany years ago, I was asked in the most charming way "why
> are Americans such racists?" to which I replied sweetly, "because we
> let our ethnic minorities... live."
Racism exists everywhere, and from my observations, America is less
racist than most cultures, although, I wonder if this diversity
movement is pushing us in the wrong direction.
>... That shut her up but quick. If the
> United States wanted to exterminate Native Americans completely, it
> certainly could've done so. Instead, they have been treated quite
> condescendingly like some endangered species and protected in various
> ways. The end result has been helpful to gambling addicts however.
> If someone wants to expose Americans to profound shame, this is the
> wrong way to do it. The right way (in my humble opinion, the only
> significant way) to do it is by uttering one word:
> Slavery.
Well, Thomas Sowell will tell you it has been practiced all around
the world and through out the history of mankind. Africa itself was
(and is to this day) involved in enslaving and trading slaves. It is
not peculiar to America, which was founded in part to eradicate
slavery. He will also tell you that S. America treated slaves much
more cruelly than Americans.
All in all, slavery is a gawdaful thing, and I don't understand the
mindset of people who are willing to do that to others, not only
because of the violation of rights, the primary reason, but also
because of all the various other issues, like simply treating others
poorly, and having to watch your back. It's profoundly stupid.
...John
Amanda
John Alway wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
> > John Alway wrote:
> > > Amanda wrote:
> > > > John Alway wrote:
> > > > > Amanda wrote:
>
> > > [...]
>
> > > > > What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
>
> > > > Now, now John, don't gets so snesitive. It's just a low level a
> > > > database class - I am in there because I want to dot he homework
> > > > assignment.
>
> > > What motivated you to post the original posting to this thread?
>
> > Think about it. They're called savages by the whites but the whites,
> > who called themselves citvilized, killed them in savage manner.
>
> Whites can be savage as much as anyone. The point is, they also
> achieved the highest level of civility at the time.
>
> > > Where did you get the story?
>
> > You mean the blanket story? I think it was the man of host couple on a
> > Thanksgiving day;
>
> About the blanket story, it appears to be completely false.
Completely? I doub it. Btw, the man who told me was a Republican and a
Christian minister.
He was a missionay to Asia before. You are not saying that lied, are
you?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_pe
> oples
>
> [..]
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
Amanda
John Alway wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
> > John Alway wrote:
> > > Amanda wrote:
> > > > John Alway wrote:
> > > > > Amanda wrote:
>
> > > [...]
>
> > > > > What class are you taking? What's the title of the course?
>
> > > > Now, now John, don't gets so snesitive. It's just a low level a
> > > > database class - I am in there because I want to dot he homework
> > > > assignment.
>
> > > What motivated you to post the original posting to this thread?
>
> > Think about it. They're called savages by the whites but the whites,
> > who called themselves citvilized, killed them in savage manner.
>
> Whites can be savage as much as anyone. The point is, they also
> achieved the highest level of civility at the time.
>
> > > Where did you get the story?
>
> > You mean the blanket story? I think it was the man of host couple on a
> > Thanksgiving day;
>
> About the blanket story, it appears to be completely false.
Completely? I doub it. Btw, the man who told me was a Republican and a
Amanda
You call this technology? War should be fought with rule, and you know
it. How come you act like everything you do is always right and fair.?
Just admit it for once that it was brabaric whether it was just one
instance or not.
Malrassic Park
<amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
The Indians did not like our incursions onto their "sacred tribal
grounds." They fought us, we fought back, we won. Then we gave them
alcoholic just to make sure it stuck.
Malrassic Park
<jal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right. It makes no sense to morally condemn people for that which
>is outside of their control. The claim that Europeans brought disease
>is true (and I'm sure it worked the other way as well), but this is
>simply nature at work, not mankind.
They should appreciate the fact that the Europeans strengthened their
overall immunity to disease.
John Alway
Amanda wrote:
> John Alway wrote:
> > Amanda wrote:
> > > John Alway wrote:
[...]
> > > You mean the blanket story? I think it was the man of host couple on a
> > > Thanksgiving day;
> > About the blanket story, it appears to be completely false.
> Completely? I doub it.
Look at the wikipedia reference. I think it is. You're just
spreading false propaganda.
>...Btw, the man who told me was a Republican and a
> Christian minister.
I'm a fan of neither republicans nor Christianity. I'm an
Objectivist, Oists are atheists. I'm surprised you don't know that.
> He was a missionay to Asia before.
And?
>...You are not saying that lied, are
> you?
The reference above says that he's wrong. Whether he lied or not is
a separate issue. Please try and keep focus on the matter at hand.
The one you brought up. If he were an historian, he'd have a much
higher level of responsibility regarding the matter.
...John
Robert J. Kolker
>
> You call this technology? War should be fought with rule, and you know
> it. How come you act like everything you do is always right and fair.?
> Just admit it for once that it was brabaric whether it was just one
> instance or not.
One fights a war to win it. Rules or protocols can we worked out only if
they benefit both sides.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
>
> They should appreciate the fact that the Europeans strengthened their
> overall immunity to disease.
Must Europeans grew up covered with shit and exposed to disease and
filth. The survivors gained immunity along with their lives.
Bob Kolker
Malrassic Park
I meant the Indians' immunity.
Robert J. Kolker
>
>
> I meant the Indians' immunity.
Yes. The indians who survived the pox would never suffer from it again.
Bob Kolker
Amanda
Agent Cooper wrote:
[..]
>
> If someone wants to expose Americans to profound shame, this is the
> wrong way to do it.
There you go again, stretching things out of proportion. The point I
was making was calling them Savages while the calers behaving as
savages .
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/savage
b : lacking the restraints normal to civilized human beings
>The right way (in my humble opinion, the only
> significant way) to do it is by uttering one word:
>
> Slavery.
You don't want me to get started on that, do you?
I won't. You know why? Because it is my personal opinion that the caste
system in India is more cruel than the slavery done to another race.
What worse? These dark-skinned people were the one with ancient history
of harppan citivilization while the Aryans were wearing animal skin for
clothes.
European racist has beeen able to brainwash successfully that to this
day, Indians of upper catse in general see their skin color as
definitive to their racial background while taking pride in their
ancient civilization built by the darkie. I won't spare the oriental
either - about obsession with skin color - but not now.
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
Amanda
That's more like it. I like this kind of explanation (referring to
alcohols) like the English giving opium to the Chinese.
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
Jim Klein
> Contra JK's accusation, I don't claim to be an expert on the Indians.
What I accused you of, and still do, is willful evasion of information that
was made available to you, in quite a bit of detail and fully
substantiated. You then, as you no doubt do now, blew it off because it
was cited to you by Meaghan Walker, as if information garnered by an
aboriginal doesn't count or something.
Meanwhile, you parade around as if you really know /anything/ about the
topic, when all you know was either the trifle offered by Rand or typical
slanted bullshit served up by folks who want to justify the unjustifiable.
This is not the method of a truth-seeker, let alone one genuinely influenced
by Rand. IMO, Rand would not willfully evade /any/ information made
available to her, and I /know/ that she considered such evasion a
fundamental error (nay, /the/ fundamental error) for an Objectivist.
>> You gotta admit that it was not nice to pretend caring and giving them
>> blankets with intention to kill them.
>
> I don't know how common a practice that was. It was hardly necessary.
> The Indians died like flies and in huge numbers from diseases brought
> over by the whites and against which they had no natural immunity. It
> was just as well. It made the few remaining ones easier to control.
You're a sick puppy, Fred. More relevantly here, you're anything /but/ an
Objectivist...at least the sort of Objectivist written about by Rand.
I'm curious...do you share gems such as this with your family?
jk
fred...@papertig.com
> fred...@papertig.com wrote:
> Meanwhile, you parade around as if you really know /anything/
> ...when all you know was either the trifle offered by Rand ...
The trifle?
> This is not the method of a truth-seeker, let alone one genuinely influenced
> by Rand. IMO, Rand would not willfully evade /any/ information made
> available to her, and I /know/ that she considered such evasion a
> fundamental error (nay, /the/ fundamental error) for an Objectivist.
JK can't ever get his line straight, whether to attack her or become
her self-appointed Great Defender.
This is all so beside the point coming from a broken record like Jim.
He may even outdo KAL in being algorithmic.
> You're a sick puppy, Fred. More relevantly here, you're anything /but/ an
> Objectivist...at least the sort of Objectivist written about by Rand.
Except of course that she fully endorsed the annihilation of the
Indians.
> I'm curious...do you share gems such as this with your family?
Of course - and, like you, they are dutifully shocked, shocked. (Of
course their excuse is that they are mostly liberals if not outright
commies).
Fred Weiss
Jim Klein
> JK can't ever get his line straight, whether to attack her or become
> her self-appointed Great Defender.
That's what happens when one takes reality as the final arbiter.
Try it sometime. You might like it.
jk
fred...@papertig.com
> ...The plains tribes were not decimated by disease.
"The fierce Comanche continued to maintain their independence and even
increase their territory until new diseases, including small pox and
cholera, began to take their toll. By the 1870's, these illnesses had
reduced their population to about 7,000 people."
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/NA-Commanche.html
"1851 Comanche population drops from 20,000 to 12,000 due to smallpox."
"1862 Smallpox epidemic from New Mexico strikes."
"1867 Cholera epidemic strikes Comanche bands."
"1870 Comanche population estimated at around 8,000."
http://tinylink.com/?mNpFU5pcRI
Please change your algorithms.
KAL: "Beep. Beep. Ignore. Re-boot. Beep. Beep"
Fred Weiss
fred...@papertig.com
> The Cherokee were counted among the "civilized" aborignal nation/tribes.
> They were mostly agricularal and were used to the idea of land
> ownership.
Maybe later, after they were subdued. But before:
"The Cherokee were constantly at war with neighboring tribes. In 1715,
they drove the Shawnee northward out of the Cumberland River region.
They continued their hereditary war with the Creeks (Muscogee). They
fought an eleven year war with the Chickasaw until they were ultimately
defeated in 1768."
http://cherokeehistory.com/1700thro.html
Please change your algorithm.
KAL: "Beep. Beep. Ignoring you. Re-boot. Beep. Beep"
Fred Weiss
fred...@papertig.com
> The Cherokee were counted among the "civilized" aborignal nation/tribes.
> They were mostly agricularal and were used to the idea of land
> ownership.
Maybe later, after they were subdued. But before:
Robert J. Kolker
> Jim Klein wrote:
>
>>fred...@papertig.com wrote:
>
>
>>Meanwhile, you parade around as if you really know /anything/
>>...when all you know was either the trifle offered by Rand ...
>
>
> The trifle?
>
>
>>This is not the method of a truth-seeker, let alone one genuinely influenced
>>by Rand. IMO, Rand would not willfully evade /any/ information made
>>available to her, and I /know/ that she considered such evasion a
>>fundamental error (nay, /the/ fundamental error) for an Objectivist.
>
>
> JK can't ever get his line straight, whether to attack her or become
> her self-appointed Great Defender.
>
> This is all so beside the point coming from a broken record like Jim.
> He may even outdo KAL in being algorithmic.
>
>
>>You're a sick puppy, Fred. More relevantly here, you're anything /but/ an
>>Objectivist...at least the sort of Objectivist written about by Rand.
>
>
> Except of course that she fully endorsed the annihilation of the
> Indians.
Displacing and eliminating aboriginal culture I can understand. There is
no way an expanding anglo population could be compatible with the land
use of the Plains Nations. This does not require that one kill the poor
bastards. One can induce aboriginal families moved to reservations to
send their children to schools to learn a way compatible with the new
order. The children live and are weaned from their pre-industrial
culture. No blood need be spilled. Get the kids and in sixty years there
is no problem.
Unfortunately land greedy bastards were not fastidious in this manner
and took steps to starve the aboriginals and provoke them to violence so
they could be killed with a "good conscience".
Meanwhile the Cherokee nation which was -civilized- was fucked over by
the Jackson administration. The Cherokee had land ownership and were
primarily agricultural. They readily took up some of the way of the
white-eyes and when Jackson sought to apply the Removal Act they even
went to Court. The Supreme Court of the United States supported their
case. That did not stop Jackson from sending in the troops to herd the
Cherokee out to Oklahoma. Half the nation died on the march, The Trail
of Tears. It was as blatant a killing as what the Turks did to the
Armenians, but with fewer souls involved. Jackson said of the Supreme
Court -- The Court has made their decision, let them enforce it. Jackson
was a law breaker and a killer of folk who were not harmful. They just
sat on land the Lords of Cotton wanted, the Barons of the Veranda, the
Mint Julip and owners of nigger slaves.
So you align yourselves with the slavers, by advocating what you do.
The Cherokee and the Seminoles of Florida were by and large peaceful and
it was unnecessary to kill them or march them off to their death. The
aboriginals were killed, in these cases, because they were not
christian, they were not caucasian and they had no desire to become
Christian. So they were killed or marched into reservations.
And that is how the West and South were won. Unnecessary genocide.
The idea of painting five hundred distinct nations each with their own
language and culture with the same brush is just plain ignorance and
bigotry. The Injuns were not like Mulsims. They did not have a holy
mission to destry the anglos. If anything it was the other way around.
The white-eyes did a christian-caucasion Jihad on the aboriginals. In
some cases it could not be avoided. In other cases (Cherokee and
Seminole) is was just plain murder.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
> Robert J. Kolker wrote:
>
>
>>The Cherokee were counted among the "civilized" aborignal nation/tribes.
>>They were mostly agricularal and were used to the idea of land
>>ownership.
>
>
> Maybe later, after they were subdued. But before:
>
> "The Cherokee were constantly at war with neighboring tribes. In 1715,
> they drove the Shawnee northward out of the Cumberland River region.
> They continued their hereditary war with the Creeks (Muscogee). They
> fought an eleven year war with the Chickasaw until they were ultimately
> defeated in 1768."
But there war was not with the anglos. They knew they were outclassed
and outgunned so they adopted some of the practices of the whites. Such
as land ownership and agriculture. They even won their cases in U.S.
Courts but it availed them nothing.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
>
> Please change your algorithm.
>
> KAL: "Beep. Beep. Ignoring you. Re-boot. Beep. Beep"
No reboot, toots. The Cherokee were no danger to the white-eyes. Unlike
the Plains Nations, the Cherokee saw what the future was going to be and
adapted to it. But it did them no good. The Land Thief and Murderer
Andrew Jackson had his way.
Bob Kolker
Reggie Perrin
> Robert J. Kolker wrote:
>
>> The Cherokee were counted among the "civilized" aborignal nation/tribes.
>> They were mostly agricularal and were used to the idea of land
>> ownership.
>
> Maybe later, after they were subdued. But before:
>
> "The Cherokee were constantly at war with neighboring tribes. In 1715,
> they drove the Shawnee northward out of the Cumberland River region.
> They continued their hereditary war with the Creeks (Muscogee). They
> fought an eleven year war with the Chickasaw until they were ultimately
> defeated in 1768."
>
> http://cherokeehistory.com/1700thro.html
And civilized people don't war with their neighbours?
fred...@papertig.com
> Displacing and eliminating aboriginal culture I can understand. There is
> no way an expanding anglo population could be compatible with the land
> use of the Plains Nations. This does not require that one kill the poor
> bastards. One can induce aboriginal families moved to reservations to
> send their children to schools to learn a way compatible with the new
> order. The children live and are weaned from their pre-industrial
> culture. No blood need be spilled. Get the kids and in sixty years there
> is no problem.
Ward Churchill and his ilk call this "cultural genocide". I actually
heard a talk of his on Book TV - or as much of it as I could stand -
and he addressed that very question.
What the Cherokees did was exemplary and ideally that's what they all
would have done. So I agree with you that the way that Jackson, et al
handled it was disgraceful. But you're thinking "20th Cent" not "19th
Cent". There was still slavery at the time and the widely held view of
white superiority. And, Sparky, the Cherokees themselves were not
exactly angels themselves. They had slaves, too - who, ironically,
accompanied them on the forced march to the reservation. That - and
much else - the "Injun lovers" don't tell you about.
Fred Weiss
fred...@papertig.com
> And civilized people don't war with their neighbours?
I'm just responding to the "peaceful Indians" myth.
It also relates to the charge that we took "their land". That land
being what exactly? The land they stole from their neighboring tribes
who had stolen it previously from some other tribe who....
This is even apart from the question of what constitutes "land
ownership" in primitive societies.
Fred Weiss
Robert J. Kolker
>
> What the Cherokees did was exemplary and ideally that's what they all
> would have done. So I agree with you that the way that Jackson, et al
> handled it was disgraceful. But you're thinking "20th Cent" not "19th
> Cent". There was still slavery at the time and the widely held view of
> white superiority. And, Sparky, the Cherokees themselves were not
> exactly angels themselves. They had slaves, too - who, ironically,
No human is an angel. And the learned that having nigger slaves was
profitable. That learned that from their Southron white neighbors.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
>
> It also relates to the charge that we took "their land". That land
> being what exactly? The land they stole from their neighboring tribes
> who had stolen it previously from some other tribe who....
Which proves that property is a myth and possession is real.
Bob Kolker
John Alway
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
[...]
> The idea of painting five hundred distinct nations each with their own
> language and culture with the same brush is just plain ignorance and
> bigotry. The Injuns were not like Mulsims. They did not have a holy
> mission to destry the anglos. If anything it was the other way around.
This is an excellent point. The Indians were the way they were
because they had no exposure to modern culture. It was a massive
cultural shock. The Indians weren't bad, they were just primitive.
The muslims, on the other hand, have little excuse. They are
zealously anti-this world, when they should know better. It is this
that makes them evil. I mean specifically the Islamofascists.
...John
Amanda
Thank you for presentting historical facts as.... historical facts.
Robert J. Kolker
>
> This is an excellent point. The Indians were the way they were
> because they had no exposure to modern culture. It was a massive
> cultural shock. The Indians weren't bad, they were just primitive.
> The muslims, on the other hand, have little excuse. They are
> zealously anti-this world, when they should know better. It is this
> that makes them evil. I mean specifically the Islamofascists.
Musilims come in two flavors: The Jihadis who will do violence and the
Yes-But* Muslims who make excuses for the Jihadis and provide a safe
environoment and funding for the Jihadis.
Bob Kolker
*Yes-But: Yes terrorism is bad, but....
Amanda
Malrassic Park wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:41:37 +0000 (UTC), "Robert J. Kolker"
> <now...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >Amanda wrote:
> >> Remember those savages killed by the blankets given by those so called
> >> the *civilized* barbarians before you swallow that first bite of
> >> Turkey, Will you?
> .
> >> Offended? Well intended.
> .
> >> My favorite quote is still Einstein's
> >> "Only two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. I am
> >> not sure about the former."
> .
> >> Sayonara
> .
> >Apparently you cannot accept humans (homosapiens) for what they are: the
> >Smartest, Baddest Apes in The Monkey House. We are as we evolved. We
> >could be no other. Rejoice in our essences since there is no alternative.
>
> And these apes should all be speaking "Engrish" while their own native
> languages slowly revert to the status of ancient Greek.
This kind of talk shows your arrogance and hence your superior attitude
but don't worry. Asians don't give a shit what the whites think. In
fact, the Chinese *still* thinks you are a barbarian.
Robert J. Kolker
>
> This kind of talk shows your arrogance and hence your superior attitude
> but don't worry. Asians don't give a shit what the whites think. In
> fact, the Chinese *still* thinks you are a barbarian.
Maybe so, but they are doing business -our- way.
Bob Kolker
Amanda
That is simply not true.
http://tinyurl.com/yc3d47
NOW MUSLIM ORGANIZATION DEMANDS ABOLITION OF SHARIAH LAW.
(This news was published on Monday, 20 Nov, 2006 on page six, column
four. The name of the newspaper is ANANDABAZAR PATRIKA.---- translated
)
Reported by Milon Dutto
One year ago a group of 'Dharma-mukto Manabbadi'( religion-free
humanity) Muslims of this province (West Bengal) had established an
organization named 'DHARMA-MOKTO MANABBADI MONCHO'( religion-free
humanity stage ) with the purpose of abolishing Shariah law. When they
became well organized, on Sunday (19th November/ 2006) they conducted a
seminar in Calcutta, demanding the abolition of Shariah law.
"..
Why mullahs had no headache on these matters?
Their love for Shariah law is expressed when a Muslim man wants to
marry more than one woman and divorce wives by their own sweet will."
This organization thinks that all the political parties of this country
are having a clear understanding with the mullahs. Giyasuddin said "The
understanding is like this - you rule your (Muslim) society and we
(political parties) will rule the country. The Muslim society is going
to hell but give us vote in election." The organization thinks that
B.J.P and R.S.S (two Hindu prominent political parties of India) talks
about the same law for all citizens for political advantage. If B.J.P
really wanted to do so, they would have done it when they were in
power. Giyasuddin demands, a large section of the Muslim society are
against these fatwaa issuing mullahs. But their voices are never heard
of, because they are not united. This organization wants to do this job
only.
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> Bob Kolker
John Alway
Amanda wrote:
> Malrassic Park wrote:
[...]
> > And these apes should all be speaking "Engrish" while their own native
> > languages slowly revert to the status of ancient Greek.
> This kind of talk shows your arrogance and hence your superior attitude
> but don't worry. Asians don't give a shit what the whites think. In
> fact, the Chinese *still* thinks you are a barbarian.
How many millions did Mao murder in the last century? Bodies were
floating in the Yangtze. Only Stalin was worse.
But, at the end of the day, you need to stop looking at things
through a racial lens. Lots of Asians I know are that way, why can't
you be?
...John
Robert J. Kolker
>
> NOW MUSLIM ORGANIZATION DEMANDS ABOLITION OF SHARIAH LAW.
>
> (This news was published on Monday, 20 Nov, 2006 on page six, column
> four. The name of the newspaper is ANANDABAZAR PATRIKA.---- translated
> )
How many of these are there? And how can they be distinguished from the
rest. If there is no practical way we will have to kill them too. Given
that nuclear technology is on the loose we have no time to make fine
distinctions.
We will have to kill them all. Allah will know His own.
Bob Kolker
Amanda
Kill them all and there will be another group worse than them. They
are not the only ones getting their hands on nuclear technology that is
on the loose since the disintegration of former USSR.
Malrassic Park
<jal...@gmail.com> wrote:
.
>Amanda wrote:
>> Malrassic Park wrote:
.
It's ok for these elitist commie stinkos to be racist because they are
superior to everybody else. Their brand of racism therefore comes from
a much higher perspective. Didn't you get the memo?
Amanda
It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
white member. Poor Mal didn't even know that his English has tons of
words borrowed from Hindi and Arabic which afforded it to surpass Latin
in popularity. That's usually the case with ignorants filled with
arrogance.
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>
> ...John
Amanda
So? Every civilization has borrowed and taken from other civilization
since time imemmorial, has it not?
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>
> Bob Kolker
Amanda
Malrassic Park wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:21:45 +0000 (UTC), John Alway
> <jal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> .
> >Amanda wrote:
> >> Malrassic Park wrote:
> .
> >> > And these apes should all be speaking "Engrish" while their own native
> >> > languages slowly revert to the status of ancient Greek.
> .
> >> This kind of talk shows your arrogance and hence your superior attitude
> >> but don't worry. Asians don't give a shit what the whites think. In
> >> fact, the Chinese *still* thinks you are a barbarian.
> .
> > How many millions did Mao murder in the last century? Bodies were
> >floating in the Yangtze. Only Stalin was worse.
> .
> > But, at the end of the day, you need to stop looking at things
> >through a racial lens. Lots of Asians I know are that way, why can't
> >you be?
>
> It's ok for these elitist commie stinkos to be racist
What I have noticed over the years is how insecure people of different
ethnic and racial groups of the countries where they're majority in
that country. Hence *most* of my closet friends (outside Burma) have
always been Chinese from outside Chinese countries, Indians from
outside the sub continent (though here are some from that area who are
secure enough that I can talk about the ills in their society w/o being
called with names), mixed race EXCEPT slavish-minded Anglo-Indians,
descendants of British day Anglo-Indians not modern day mixed race,
especially the ones who looks more Indian than Anglo and yet hate their
Indian ancestry.
> because they are superior to everybody else.
I sure am when I am not insecure like you. Wouldn't you agree?
> Their brand of racism therefore comes from a much higher perspective.
If you want to see everything I say that does kiss the white's ass as
racism, be my guest.
> Didn't you get the memo?
?? but just so you know, I don't like memos:)
Robert J. Kolker
>
> Kill them all and there will be another group worse than them. They
> are not the only ones getting their hands on nuclear technology that is
> on the loose since the disintegration of former USSR.
Then we will kill them too. Eventually no one will dare lift a hand
against us. When Rome was in her prime and the Legions struck fast and
hard, very few raised a hand against her. Google -Pax Romana-
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
> It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
> was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
> white member. Poor Mal didn't even know that his English has tons of
> words borrowed from Hindi and Arabic which afforded it to surpass Latin
> in popularity. That's usually the case with ignorants filled with
> arrogance.
English, as languages go, is a mutt. One of the reasons it is such an
effective language is it because it borrows (steals) shameless from
other languages. Roughly Englis is one third latin, one third greek, one
third german with a sprinkling of words from yet other languages, such
as hebrew, arabic, chinese and japanese (plus others still). That is why
I am gung ho for english and have become a honcho in its use.
Robert J. Kolker
>
>
> So? Every civilization has borrowed and taken from other civilization
> since time imemmorial, has it not?
Exactly! The human race progresses by borrowing useful ideas from
neighbors and enemies. Sometimes ideas are stolen outright. Human see,
human do.
Bob Kolker
Malrassic Park
<amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>John Alway wrote:
>> Amanda wrote:
>> > Malrassic Park wrote:
.
>> > > And these apes should all be speaking "Engrish" while their own native
>> > > languages slowly revert to the status of ancient Greek.
.
>> > This kind of talk shows your arrogance and hence your superior attitude
>> > but don't worry. Asians don't give a shit what the whites think. In
>> > fact, the Chinese *still* thinks you are a barbarian.
.
>> How many millions did Mao murder in the last century? Bodies were
>> floating in the Yangtze. Only Stalin was worse.
.
>> But, at the end of the day, you need to stop looking at things
>> through a racial lens. Lots of Asians I know are that way, why can't
>> you be?
.
>It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
>was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
>white member.
Are you referring to the white "member" in his pants? Or are you
referring to me as some sort of token white person in a group full of
caucausions? But I said nothing racial. I said you are a commie lib
stinko, and you believe your racist comments are not racist because of
your "higher" intellectual perspective. So just keep digging your own
grave, ok, good.
Amanda
Malrassic Park wrote:
[..]
> .
> >It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
> >was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
> >white member.
>
> Are you referring to the white "member" in his pants? Or are you
> referring to me as some sort of token white person in a group full of
> caucausions?
Whichever please you better.
> But I said nothing racial.
I see that you are good at wtiting words.
> I said you are a commie lib
> stinko, and you believe your racist comments
You just said it. Anything I said that doesn't make you feel faltered,
you see it as racist comments.
> are not racist because of
> your "higher" intellectual perspective.
> So just keep digging your own grave, ok, good.
You're the one who keeps digging deeper.
z
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Amanda
So, you would disagreewith Thomas Jefferson's
I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less
we use our power the greater it will be.
Malrassic Park
<amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Malrassic Park wrote:
.
>You just said it. Anything I said that doesn't make you feel faltered,
>you see it as racist comments.
.
>> are not racist because of
>> your "higher" intellectual perspective.
.
>> So just keep digging your own grave, ok, good.
.
>You're the one who keeps digging deeper.
Tell us more about how Asian culture is superior to Western.
Robert J. Kolker
>
> I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less
> we use our power the greater it will be.
> z
Vain hope in a world full of evil folk.
Bob Kolker
John Alway
[...]
> It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
> was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
> white member. Poor Mal didn't even know that his English has tons of
> words borrowed from Hindi and Arabic which afforded it to surpass Latin
> in popularity.
Mal is a wise cracker. He's trying to be funny. This is one of
the problems you have, Amanda, because of your English.
Bob Kolker engages in racist rhetoric and he's been criticized many
times for it. At the same time, he has many times praised the Chinese
perhaps more than they deserve.
...John
Robert J. Kolker
>
> Bob Kolker engages in racist rhetoric and he's been criticized many
> times for it. At the same time, he has many times praised the Chinese
> perhaps more than they deserve.
My antipathy toward Muslims is not racial. It is cultural and religious.
The Chinese in their prime were several light years ahead of Europe, but
the Chinese culture ceased to grow, so it began to wither and die. China
is now undergoing a resurgence.
I do not rag on people because of their genes (which they not chose). I
rag on them because of their memes and chosen values.
Bob Kolker
Amanda
Why do I get the feeling that you just want to talk nonsense and waste
my time? You are running out of accusation and so now even coming up
with lines like "Asian culture superior to Western". Stop it.
John Alway
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
> John Alway wrote:
> > Bob Kolker engages in racist rhetoric and he's been criticized many
> > times for it. At the same time, he has many times praised the Chinese
> > perhaps more than they deserve.
> My antipathy toward Muslims is not racial. It is cultural and religious.
Sometimes you use racist rhetoric like "white-eyes" and "nigger",
and the like. Maybe you're just trying to be colorful. ;)
...John
Amanda
John Alway wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
> > was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
> > white member. Poor Mal didn't even know that his English has tons of
> > words borrowed from Hindi and Arabic which afforded it to surpass Latin
> > in popularity.
>
>
> Mal is a wise cracker. He's trying to be funny. This is one of
> the problems you have, Amanda, because of your English.
Well he should remember that I am in usenet, not in English literature
class and his line are not funny, not the least bit.
>
> Bob Kolker engages in racist rhetoric and he's been criticized many
> times for it.
He does it in an entertaining way and alos with facts, well most of the
time when it is not about the Muslims, especially Arab Muslims.
>At the same time, he has many times praised the Chinese
> perhaps more than they deserve.
I agree that Americans in general tend to praise the Chinese more than
they deserve. In Asia, Chinese have the monoploy on illegal gambling,
drug trade, prostitution, and what not. But Americans in general only
see how diligently hardworking Chinese are. I went to a grade school
with predominantly Chinese most of whose family, as I later realized,
were involved in drug dealing - 70s was a period where Heroine was out
of control, but they also have several other small scale businesses
such as shops, etc. to cover their track.
When the whole country was in turmoil in late 80s with no economy, some
of my friends' families were building houses after houses and I came to
know, from one, that her family was handling Thai Lottery known as
Chee. Of course, they had a few official in thie pockets. Chinese
funeral is a place where gambling (poker, bridge) an entertainment.
When it comes to moral ethics, Chinese have almost none.
Malrassic Park
<amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Malrassic Park wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:04:24 +0000 (UTC), Amanda
>> <amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
.
>> >Malrassic Park wrote:
.
>> >You just said it. Anything I said that doesn't make you feel faltered,
>> >you see it as racist comments.
.
>> >> are not racist because of
>> >> your "higher" intellectual perspective.
.
>> >> So just keep digging your own grave, ok, good.
.
>> >You're the one who keeps digging deeper.
.
>> Tell us more about how Asian culture is superior to Western.
.
>Why do I get the feeling that you just want to talk nonsense and waste
>my time? You are running out of accusation and so now even coming up
>with lines like "Asian culture superior to Western". Stop it.
I knew you'd back off in retreat. Fact is, every culture has its
superiority complex: the hill people of Guatemala feel they are
superior to the city folk of Guatemala; the city folk feel they are
superior to the hill people; etc.; etc.The question is, which one
really is superior?
Malrassic Park
<now...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>John Alway wrote:
.
No, you rag on people because you married a rag.
Malrassic Park
<amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>John Alway wrote:
>> Amanda wrote:
.
>> > It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
>> > was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
>> > white member. Poor Mal didn't even know that his English has tons of
>> > words borrowed from Hindi and Arabic which afforded it to surpass Latin
>> > in popularity.
.
>> Mal is a wise cracker. He's trying to be funny. This is one of
.
>Well he should remember that I am in usenet, not in English literature
>class and his line are not funny, not the least bit.
I am a speeling Nazi.
Amanda
Malrassic Park wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:25:25 +0000 (UTC), Amanda
> <amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Malrassic Park wrote:
> .
> >> Tell us more about how Asian culture is superior to Western.
> .
> >Why do I get the feeling that you just want to talk nonsense and waste
> >my time? You are running out of accusation and so now even coming up
> >with lines like "Asian culture superior to Western". Stop it.
>
> I knew you'd back off in retreat.
I know that you are just trying to aggravate me by saying the above.
> Fact is, every culture has its
> superiority complex: the hill people of Guatemala feel they are
> superior to the city folk of Guatemala; the city folk feel they are
> superior to the hill people; etc.; etc.
> The question is, which one really is superior?
No one. Everyone.
I have a (New year -1 Month) resolution. I need to cut time on usenet
and get involved with hiking activities, which I have wanted to do
since I have moved here but didn't know any local group until the end
of this past Spring. Better yet, I met a few people recently who do
hiking not too seriously. So Sawatdi.
http://www.elite.net/~runner/jennifers/goodbye.htm
Reggie Perrin
> Amanda wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> It is amusing to notice how you guys jump on me when what I was doing
>> was only responding to the lines written through racial lens by your
>> white member. Poor Mal didn't even know that his English has tons of
>> words borrowed from Hindi and Arabic which afforded it to surpass Latin
>> in popularity.
>
>
> Mal is a wise cracker. He's trying to be funny. This is one of
> the problems you have, Amanda, because of your English.
Incidentally, poor Amanda is wrong. English gets about 900 words from
Arabic and fewer from Hindi. That's from a total vocabulary of at least
250,000.
Malrassic Park
<amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
.
>Malrassic Park wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:25:25 +0000 (UTC), Amanda
>> <amanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
.
>> >Malrassic Park wrote:
.
>> >> Tell us more about how Asian culture is superior to Western.
.
>> >Why do I get the feeling that you just want to talk nonsense and waste
>> >my time? You are running out of accusation and so now even coming up
>> >with lines like "Asian culture superior to Western". Stop it.
.
>> I knew you'd back off in retreat.
>I know that you are just trying to aggravate me by saying the above.
.
>> Fact is, every culture has its
>> superiority complex: the hill people of Guatemala feel they are
>> superior to the city folk of Guatemala; the city folk feel they are
>> superior to the hill people; etc.; etc.
.
>> The question is, which one really is superior?
.
>No one. Everyone.
Make up your mind please.
>I have a (New year -1 Month) resolution. I need to cut time on usenet
>and get involved with hiking activities, which I have wanted to do
>since I have moved here but didn't know any local group until the end
>of this past Spring. Better yet, I met a few people recently who do
>hiking not too seriously. So Sawatdi.
.
>http://www.elite.net/~runner/jennifers/goodbye.htm
Doesn't that make the fourth time you've made that resolution in the
past few days here?
You're addicted to this group, and you know it.
Robert J. Kolker
>
> Sometimes you use racist rhetoric like "white-eyes" and "nigger",
> and the like. Maybe you're just trying to be colorful. ;)
Insensitivity is a hobby of mine.
Bob Kolker
Amanda
Reggie Perrin wrote:
[..]
> Incidentally, poor Amanda is wrong. English gets about 900 words from
> Arabic and fewer from Hindi. That's from a total vocabulary of at least
> 250,000.
Reference?
z
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Mark N
Humans are the Smartest, Baddest Idea-Stealers in the Monkey House.
Mark
David Buchner
> > I'm curious...do you share gems such as this with your family?
> Of course - and, like you, they are dutifully shocked, shocked. (Of
> course their excuse is that they are mostly liberals if not outright
> commies).
Oh, gee.
You've gone and reminded me just how much I'm looking forward to the
impending Christmas-With-the-Folks...
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