Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Do ALL of Wagner's leitmotifs repeat themselves?
33 views
Skip to first unread message
greg lee
May 21, 2013, 8:13:41 PM5/21/13
to
????????????
REP
May 21, 2013, 8:19:39 PM5/21/13
to
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:13:41 PM UTC-7, greg lee wrote:
> ????????????
That's the definition of a leitmotif. If it doesn't return, then it's just a melody.
REP
> ????????????
That's the definition of a leitmotif. If it doesn't return, then it's just a melody.
REP
Jay Kauffman
May 21, 2013, 9:17:46 PM5/21/13
to
Anselm
May 23, 2013, 8:56:02 AM5/23/13
to
On Wednesday, 22 May 2013 01:13:41 UTC+1, greg lee wrote:
> ????????????
And of course, the famously enigmatic "Redemption" motive that concludes the whole cycle comes close to being a "non-motive". It's only previous appearance is in the last act of Die Walkure when Brunnhilde tells Sieglinde that she's pregnant with Siegfried. This illustrates REP's point below quite nicely. If Wagner hadn't repeated it at the end of the cycle, it would be nothing more than just a melody - beautiful, highly expressive of the moment, but just a melody nonetheless. And why did he repeat it at the end of the last work? There's been a lot of ink spilled on that, but I imagine that the ordinary operagoer wouldn't remember that he or she had heard that melody before, so functionally it would remain a melody rather than a motive.
Compare in this respect what sounds very much like the beginning of a formal aria: Fricka's wailing "Oh, was klag' ich um Ehe und Eid", from Act II Scene of Die Walkure. To the best of my recollection, striking as those first three notes are, Wagner doesn't use them anywhere else in the cycle - in fact, they're a cadential cliche from his ol' opera days that he's now adapted as an opening rather than a closing gambit to lead into the "Flight motive". The fact that he doesn't repeat them means, as REP says, that they don't constitute a motive.
> ????????????
And of course, the famously enigmatic "Redemption" motive that concludes the whole cycle comes close to being a "non-motive". It's only previous appearance is in the last act of Die Walkure when Brunnhilde tells Sieglinde that she's pregnant with Siegfried. This illustrates REP's point below quite nicely. If Wagner hadn't repeated it at the end of the cycle, it would be nothing more than just a melody - beautiful, highly expressive of the moment, but just a melody nonetheless. And why did he repeat it at the end of the last work? There's been a lot of ink spilled on that, but I imagine that the ordinary operagoer wouldn't remember that he or she had heard that melody before, so functionally it would remain a melody rather than a motive.
Compare in this respect what sounds very much like the beginning of a formal aria: Fricka's wailing "Oh, was klag' ich um Ehe und Eid", from Act II Scene of Die Walkure. To the best of my recollection, striking as those first three notes are, Wagner doesn't use them anywhere else in the cycle - in fact, they're a cadential cliche from his ol' opera days that he's now adapted as an opening rather than a closing gambit to lead into the "Flight motive". The fact that he doesn't repeat them means, as REP says, that they don't constitute a motive.
0 new messages