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The New MET Parsifal
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wagnerfan
Feb 20, 2013, 6:29:50 AM2/20/13
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Looking forward to seeing it at the MET on March 2. I had originally
thought I would only prefer so called "traditional" stagings of this
particular Wagner opera until I saw the Herheim production at Bayreuth
which had moments so moving and thoughtful I changed my mind. Friends
who have seen this MET production really admired it though they didn't
like some things e.g.the dancing but I look forward to seeing it.
Wagner fan
thought I would only prefer so called "traditional" stagings of this
particular Wagner opera until I saw the Herheim production at Bayreuth
which had moments so moving and thoughtful I changed my mind. Friends
who have seen this MET production really admired it though they didn't
like some things e.g.the dancing but I look forward to seeing it.
Wagner fan
Kurnewal
Feb 28, 2013, 2:46:18 AM2/28/13
to
Jonas Kaufmann, though not big-voiced, has a beautiful voice and was a very fine Parsifal. Rene Pape was superb as Gurnemanz. Conductor Daniele Gatti could have provided a little more body and volume, but apart from that produced a marvelous evening from the great Met orchestra -- slow, measured, sonorous and mesmerizing. This, combined with the sensitive tenderness of the groupings, the choreography and interactions among the players, and the solemn sets, created a truly absorbing and engrossing Parsifal, almost overwhelming in its impact.
Kurnewal
Feb 28, 2013, 12:04:54 PM2/28/13
to
One extra note: In this forum there has been advanced the notion that Wagner, not much of a Christian, in Parsifal used Christianity to symbolise a more universalist ethos, giving the public his philosophy of compassion filtered through a mythology they could understand. He even started and abandoned a Buddhist opera once, and perhaps Parsifal is the Buddhist opera brought to completion under a veil of Christian symbolism. After all, he doesn't mention Christ's name once. I apologize that I forget the name of the commenter and do not have the time to wade through the mass of spam to recover it.
All that was hard to believe here, with the repeated returns to references to the Savior, the Grail, the Blood, the Flesh, the blood in the Grail Chalice refreshed by drops of Amfortas's blood, the Cross, how he died for our sins, drink my blood, eat my flesh, Good Friday, more blood, and on and on and on. It would seem that if Christianity here were a translucent cover, it would not need to be so concrete, specific, repeated and, yes, blood-laden.
My own opinion is that Christianity is here evoked as a myth which can work powerfully on the artist's audience, who are steeped in it to a greater extent than they are in the Norse myths. He has rewritten the myth in his own terms, much as he did the Norse myths, generalized it and here paralleled it with a new hero. But I think he means in the rewriting to have it resonate on a deeper level, to give society the religious experience through art that is lacking in the modern churches, rather than to have it stand for a different myth or set of myths. The overarching message of pity and compassion can after all be drawn out of a rewritten Christianity directly rather than out of Buddhism filtered through Christianity.
All that was hard to believe here, with the repeated returns to references to the Savior, the Grail, the Blood, the Flesh, the blood in the Grail Chalice refreshed by drops of Amfortas's blood, the Cross, how he died for our sins, drink my blood, eat my flesh, Good Friday, more blood, and on and on and on. It would seem that if Christianity here were a translucent cover, it would not need to be so concrete, specific, repeated and, yes, blood-laden.
My own opinion is that Christianity is here evoked as a myth which can work powerfully on the artist's audience, who are steeped in it to a greater extent than they are in the Norse myths. He has rewritten the myth in his own terms, much as he did the Norse myths, generalized it and here paralleled it with a new hero. But I think he means in the rewriting to have it resonate on a deeper level, to give society the religious experience through art that is lacking in the modern churches, rather than to have it stand for a different myth or set of myths. The overarching message of pity and compassion can after all be drawn out of a rewritten Christianity directly rather than out of Buddhism filtered through Christianity.
Mike Scott Rohan
Mar 9, 2013, 3:26:06 PM3/9/13
to
On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:04:54 PM UTC, Kurnewal wrote:
> One extra note: In this forum there has been advanced the notion that Wagner, not much of a Christian, in Parsifal used Christianity to symbolise a more universalist ethos, giving the public his philosophy of compassion filtered through a mythology they could understand. He even started and abandoned a Buddhist opera once, and perhaps Parsifal is the Buddhist opera brought to completion under a veil of Christian symbolism. After all, he doesn't mention Christ's name once. I apologize that I forget the name of the commenter and do not have the time to wade through the mass of spam to recover it.
>
It could have been any of us. This is fairly widely accepted -- if not necessarily agreed with -- in scholarly analysis.
> One extra note: In this forum there has been advanced the notion that Wagner, not much of a Christian, in Parsifal used Christianity to symbolise a more universalist ethos, giving the public his philosophy of compassion filtered through a mythology they could understand. He even started and abandoned a Buddhist opera once, and perhaps Parsifal is the Buddhist opera brought to completion under a veil of Christian symbolism. After all, he doesn't mention Christ's name once. I apologize that I forget the name of the commenter and do not have the time to wade through the mass of spam to recover it.
>
>
> All that was hard to believe here, with the repeated returns to references to the Savior, the Grail, the Blood, the Flesh, the blood in the Grail Chalice refreshed by drops of Amfortas's blood, the Cross, how he died for our sins, drink my blood, eat my flesh, Good Friday, more blood, and on and on and on. It would seem that if Christianity here were a translucent cover, it would not need to be so concrete, specific, repeated and, yes, blood-laden.
Remember that the Grail is only not accepted Christian doctrine or thought, it's merely a legendary corpus that now happens to tap into the original Christian legend, without in any way being legitimized by them. In fact, very shortly before Wagner's main source, it was still a thoroughly pagan story, with the Graal a stone rather than a chalice, and a pagan cornucopia produing very material sustenance. It makes free use of Christian imagery without being in the slightes bit Christian.
> All that was hard to believe here, with the repeated returns to references to the Savior, the Grail, the Blood, the Flesh, the blood in the Grail Chalice refreshed by drops of Amfortas's blood, the Cross, how he died for our sins, drink my blood, eat my flesh, Good Friday, more blood, and on and on and on. It would seem that if Christianity here were a translucent cover, it would not need to be so concrete, specific, repeated and, yes, blood-laden.
>
>
>
> My own opinion is that Christianity is here evoked as a myth which can work powerfully on the artist's audience, who are steeped in it to a greater extent than they are in the Norse myths. He has rewritten the myth in his own terms, much as he did the Norse myths, generalized it and here paralleled it with a new hero. But I think he means in the rewriting to have it resonate on a deeper level, to give society the religious experience through art that is lacking in the modern churches, rather than to have it stand for a different myth or set of myths. The overarching message of pity and compassion can after all be drawn out of a rewritten Christianity directly rather than out of Buddhism filtered through Christianity.
Cheers,
Mike
Bert Coules
Mar 9, 2013, 7:30:27 PM3/9/13
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Mike Scott Rohan wrote:
> ...a pagan cornucopia producing very material sustenance.
Something which was actually presented in the first Parsifal I ever saw: a
rather fusty old production at Covent Garden which nonetheless pulled off a
nice bit of theatrical magic when food and drink materialised in front of
the Grail Knights during the act one ritual.
Bert
> ...a pagan cornucopia producing very material sustenance.
Something which was actually presented in the first Parsifal I ever saw: a
rather fusty old production at Covent Garden which nonetheless pulled off a
nice bit of theatrical magic when food and drink materialised in front of
the Grail Knights during the act one ritual.
Bert
jillian...@adm.monash.edu.au
Apr 22, 2013, 2:13:52 AM4/22/13
to
On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:29:50 PM UTC+11, Jay Kauffman wrote:
> Looking forward to seeing it at the MET on March 2. I had originally thought I would only prefer so called "traditional" stagings of this particular Wagner opera until I saw the Herheim production at Bayreuth which had moments so moving and thoughtful I changed my mind. Friends who have seen this MET production really admired it though they didn't like some things e.g.the dancing but I look forward to seeing it. Wagner fan
Went to see the Met's Parsifal yesterday - totally blown away by the production (especially Rene Pape), but mostly totally blown away by the opera itself!! This was a second only for me - once live in Adelaide in 2001 and now the Met. Otherwise it has been only the small screen with DVDs, or CDs, which help fill the void of lack of live productions, but certainly are not the same.
> Looking forward to seeing it at the MET on March 2. I had originally thought I would only prefer so called "traditional" stagings of this particular Wagner opera until I saw the Herheim production at Bayreuth which had moments so moving and thoughtful I changed my mind. Friends who have seen this MET production really admired it though they didn't like some things e.g.the dancing but I look forward to seeing it. Wagner fan
How I envy those of you in Europe and USA who have a choice of Wagner productions to see and compare. To my knowledge Adelaide has been the only time Parsifal has been performed in Australia (in 1906 there was a production called Parsifal, based on Wagner's story, but not his music!). However, I wil be going to Munich for Parsifal in July....and we do have The Ring in Melbourne in November, so things are looking up.
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