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From: Peter Groves <metrical...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
Subject: Re: Quiz on plot in Hamlet
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 15:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
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On Apr 7, 5:23=A0am, bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 06:35:49 -0700 (PDT), Peter Groves
>
>
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>
>
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> <metrical...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 6, 10:56=A0pm, bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 01:43:40 -0700 (PDT), spinoza1111
>
> >> <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Apr 4, 9:47=A0am, John W Kennedy <jwke...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> On 2011-04-03 17:59:58 -0400, neonprose said:
>
> >> >> > On Mar 29, 9:35=A0am, John W Kennedy <jwke...@attglobal.net> wrot=
e:
> >> >> >> On 2011-03-29 03:17:12 -0400, neonprose said:
>
> >[snip]
>
> >> So was Hamlet wrong in assuming that Claudius if killed at prayer
> >> would go to heaven despite his guilt?
>
> >No, provided Claudius had confessed, shown contrition and made
> >restitution (he falls at the last hurdle), and I don't quite
> >understand how that question could have been prompted by the posts you
> >were responding to, unless you were reading very inattentively.
>
> >Peter G.
>
> My short investigation on the point of Claudius' "confession" suggests
> that neither the audience then or commentators since conclude that
> Claudius' pray in his private chapel amounts to a confession.
>
> 1. =A0The audience would know that Claudius shows remorse, but only
> plans for expiating sins later; possibly a public confession? =A0The
> brooding Claudius says he knows all too well that prayers alone will
> not save him if he continues to benefit from his own sin (Sparknotes).
>
> 2. =A0Literary commentators like Coleridge do not accept that Hamlet can
> plausibly pretend interest in the condition of Claudius' soul as part
> of his revenge plot.
>
> 3. =A0Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation -- =A0Penance, Penance and
> Reconciliation: =A0athttp://www.catholic.com/library/Confession.asp
>
> (quote)
> Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave
> or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God
> has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness=97the
> sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.
> (unquote)
>
> So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Claudius' "confession"
> was during prayer, or "confessed directly to God", but sin such as
> murder of a brother is "grave or mortal sin", requiring forgiveness
> through the sacrament of confession to a priest.

As I thought I had pointed out, it's not valid in any case because he
cannot make restitution.  Your reading skills aren't all they could
be.

Peter G.

>
> BTW, =A0Sparknotes points out that if Hamlet did kill Claudius here, it
> would be the climax of the plot, not the Mousetrap scene. =A0bookburn