Eleanor Bull's REAL status and why she wasn't likely to be keeping a tavern...
Lyra
* * * * * * *
* *
Eleanor Bull's REAL status and why she wasn't likely to be keeping a
tavern...
* * * * * * *
* *
especially of the low variety!
* * * * * * *
* *
I shall start with a heraldry page I've found today...
first, for anyone who doesn't know or has forgotten...
Eleanor Bull is her married name,
she is born
Eleanor Whitney,
of the Whitneys of Whitney-on-Wye...
where they had a castle.
It's very near the Welsh borders.
In England.
(quote)
THE PICTURE OF 18 SHIELDS
Image:18Shields.jpg
Starting at the left-hand corner and going from left to right the only
information I have been able to find is as follows (NOD indicating "No
other details"):-
(1) Whitney, Ireland. (2) Whitney, Herefordshire. (3) Sir Benjamin
Whitney, born 1833, Clerk of the Crown, Co. Mayo, only son of Nicholas
Whitney of Old Ross, Co. Wexford. (4) Sir Robert Whitney, 1634. (5)
Eustace Whitney, 1634 (black crescent denotes eldest son). (6)
Whitney, NOD.
(7) Whitney (or Witnee), Gloucestershire. (8) Pauline Payne Whitney,
1918. (9) Fetherston-Whitney. Name changed from Fetherston, 1859.
Fetherston arms in second and third quarters. (10) Witney, or Wetney,
Gloucester.
(11) Whitney, NOD. (12) Whitney, or Witney, NOD.
(13) Whitney, NOD. (14) Whitney, NOD. (15) Eustace and Robert de
Whitneye or Witeneye, 14th C. (16) Eustace and Robert de Whitneye or
Witney, 13th C. (17) Sir Eustace Whitney (18) Witney, Chester.
The depiction in the centre shows a helmet, facing the viewer with the
visor open, denoting the rank of Knight and surmounted by a Wreath and
the Whitney Crest.
THE ACHIEVEMENT OF SIR EUSTACE DE WHITNEY, 1285
Image:Eustace.jpg
This is my own artistic depiction, based on the blazon of "Azure, a
Cross counter-companee Or and Gules" as stated on the St. George Roll
of 1285
THE ACHIEVEMENT OF SIR BENJAMIN WHITNEY Image:Benjamin.jpg
My painting, copied from original
GUISCARD'S QUARTERINGS
(Origins unknown)
Image:Guiscard8.jpg
THE PANEL OF EIGHT
(1)Whitney. (2) Pychard. (3) Clamvow. (4) Russell.
(5) Parrey. (6) Wye. (7)Vaughan. (8) Lucy.
Image:Guiscard15.jpg
THE PANEL OF FIFTEEN
(1) Whitney. (2) Milborn. (3) Eynesworth. (4) Furnival. (5)Audley.
(6) Lovelock. (7) Baskerville. (8) Montgomery. (9) Rees. (10) Wallia.
(11) Le Grosse. (12) Bedmarden. (13) Solers. (14) Shandos. (15)
Blackett.
HARLEIAN MANUSCRIPT QUARTERINGS
Image:Harleian.jpg
WHITNEY QUARTERINGS
As tricked upon Harleian Manuscript No. 1545, fol. 69,
In the British Museum.
(1) Whitney. (2) Milbourn. (3) Eynesworth. (4) Furnival.
(5) Verdon. (6) Lovelock. (7) Baskerville. (6) Botoler.
(7) Rhys. (8) Lenthal. (9) Grosse. (10) Bedmarden.
(11) Solers. (12) Bruges. (13) Blackett. (14) Whitney.
THE IMPALED ACHIEVEMENT
of Sir Robert Whitney and his wife Dame Sybil Baskerville.
Marshalled by C.E. Gildersome-Dickinson of London.
Image:Impaled.jpg
This shield is divided down the centre. The lefthand side reads:-
(1) Whitney of Whitney. (2) Milbourne of Tillington. (3) Eynesford
of Tillington. (4) Furnival of Munden Furnival.
(5) Luvetot of Worksop. (6) Ledet of Hamerick. (7) Folliot of
Hamerick. (8) Reincourt of Hamerick.
(9) Morville of Isell. (10) Engayne. (11) Trivers. (12) Stuteville
of Kirk Oswald.
(13) Baskerville of Icomb. (14) Rees of Wales. (15) Lenthal. (16)
Le Gros.
(17) Botler. (18) Pedwardine. (19) Solers. (20) Pavely.
(21) Bruges of Letton. (22) Pychard. (23) Sapie. (24) Delamere.
(25) Blacket of Icomb. (26) Whitney of Whitney. (It is a puzzle
why this cross has four lines of chequers. All other representations
and sources state three.)
The righthand side reads:-
(1) Baskerville of Eardisley. (2) Rees of Wales. (3) Lenthall. (4)
Le Gros.
(5) Botler. (6) Pedwardine. (7) Solers. (8) Paveley.
(9) Bruges of Letton. (10) Pycard. (11) Sapie. (12) Delamere.
(13) Breynton of Stretton Sugwas. (14) Milbourne of Tillington.
(15) Eynesford of Tillington. (16) Furnival of Munden Furnival.
(17) Luvetot of Worksop. (18) Ledet of Ramerick. (19) Folliot of
Ramerick. (20) Reincurt of Ramerick.
(21) Morville of Isell. (22) Engayne. (23) Trivers. (24) Stutville
of Kirk Oswald.
(25) Baskerville of Icomb. (26) Rees of Wales. (27) Lenthall. (28)
Le Gros.
(29) Botlar. (30) Pedwardine. (31) Solers. (32) Paveley.
(33) Bruges of Letton. (34) Pycard. (35) Sapie. (36) Delamere.
(37) Blacket of Icomb. (38) Baskerville of Eardisley.
[Editorial comment by Robert L. Ward] The reason for the duplications
is that she was his first cousin once removed, and shared descent from
many of the same families. The relationship was like this:
Simon Milbourne = Jane Baskerville of Icomb
___________|_______________________
| |
| John Breynton = Sybil Milbourne
James Whitney = Blanche Milbourne |
| |
| Sir James Baskerville = Elizabeth Breynton
| _________|
| |
Sir Robert Whitney = Sybil Baskerville of Eardisley
The two Milbourne daughters were coheiresses of their parents, so both
were entitled to quarter all the arms their parents were entitled to
bear. Elizabeth Breynton was an heiress, too, so all the arms of John
Breynton appear in her achievement, and thus were passed to her
daughter Sybil, along with those of Sir James Baskerville. To add to
the confusion, Sir James Baskerville's great-grandfather was a brother
of the above Jane Baskerville's father (and she, too, was an heiress),
making this family even more inbred, and adding to the quarterings.
[End of comment]
TAILPIECE
In the portrayal of the Whitney arms in Phoenix's (see right) book the
artist has omitted the helmet and mantling. This was usual in very
early heraldry but what is unusual is that the shape of the shield
shown was not used in heraldry until the period 1750 to 1850.
Email comments or queries would be welcome. Go to Bill Whitney's User
page, look at the "toolbox", and click on "E-mail this user".
Retrieved from "http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/
The_Heraldry_of_the_Whitney_Family"
Categories: Heraldry | England | Herefordshire, England | Whitney,
Herefordshire, England | Gloucestershire, England | Cheshire, England
| Ireland | County Mayo, Ireland
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
* * * * * * *
* *
Note the marriages to the families of
Parr(e)y - Blanche Parry is the Queen's nursemaid and companion -
and
Lucy - the family living at Charlecote,
near Stratford on Avon,
and the story of Shakespeare stealing deer.
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
(quote)
The Heraldry of the Whitney Family
From WRG
by William A. Whitney
HERALDRY IN GENERAL
Before considering the various heraldic achievements of the Whitneys I
thought it might be interesting to have a review of the fascinating
history and meanings of the various items that constitute what we all
refer to as "coats-of-arms".
The custom of bearing devices on military shields began long ago among
ancient peoples as wide apart as the Chinese and Japanese, the
Assyrians and the Hittites, the Egyptians, the Greeks and the Romans
but the symbols were mainly of historical heroes or of mythical
derivation. It was not until the 11th C. that Heraldry , as it came to
be known, commenced in Europe and the 12th C. in England and it
started with the practice of wearing a surcoat over the suit of
armour, bearing a pattern or symbol personal to the wearer, thus
enabling him to be recognised even when his face was obscured by a
closed helmet.
The decorations soon spread to shields, horse-trappings and banners
and so much did the custom proliferate that, in order to reduce
confusion, the King (Henry V, 1413-1422) forbad the assumption of
armorial bearings without his permission. Subsequently King's Heralds
toured the country, registering not only "arms" but also the births,
deaths and marriages of armorial families to secure that arms were
properly handed down. Many of their Rolls of Arms are preserved in the
College of Arms in London which was established in the 15th century
and they are a valuable source of authenticity but sometimes even so-
called "bogus arms" (i.e. where they were assumed without sanction)
were handed down and became recognised through usage. Arms are still
granted by the College but only after stringent examination of the
worthiness of the applicant and a payment which could be as much as
£2,925! No one is permitted to claim an established coat-of-arms
unless direct descendancy from the original owner can be proved, but
there is no restriction on the display of arms as long as it is for
purely artistic purposes.
The correct term for a full coat-of arms is an achievement. It usually
consists of four parts the shield, the helmet, the wreath, and the
mantling. There may also be a crest, supporters on each side of the
shield and a motto.
The recorded description of an achievement is known as a blazon and it
is written, in an abbreviated form, in Heraldry's own special language
which is mainly Norman French with a smattering of Latin, Anglo-Saxon,
Old English and other sources. (Reference to Heraldic Dictionaries is,
therefore, essential.)
Their are many beautifully illustrated books on Heraldry (which
includes, in addition to coats-of-arms, other allied subjects such as
seals and banners) but to obtain details of blazons we have to go to
the very expensive The General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland
and Wales, by Sir Bernard Burke, C.B., LL.D., Ulster King of Arms,
first published in 1842. This has 1153 pages of blazons, each page
having about 55 entries so that, in all, there are some 60,000 coats
for about 3,500 families. There are also 74 pages on Heraldry matters
in general and 23 pages of mottoes, but unfortunately, no
illustrations' of individual coats. The only other book which attempts
to cover all the records ( and also is without illustrations) is
Papworth's Ordinary of British Armorials, by John Woody Papworth,
published in 1874. This book is also of a monumental size but in this
case blazons are listed first by description and then attributed to
their holders, i.e. the opposite method to that of the General Armory,
and as, for example, there are at least 40 different ways of
portraying a lion, 50 different styles of crosses and even a single
line can be varied in 22 different ways, it follows that it is far
from easy to track down any particular coat-of-arms!
If we add to the foregoing the fact that there are many rules (some of
which were inevitably broken on occasion!) as, for example, how
colours shall be used or decorations shall be added to the shield, it
will be seen that the re-creation of any particular coat cannot be
undertaken without considerable study of the whole subject. However,
to return to the blazon, first the shield (and supporters, if any) are
described. Any divisions are described and the colours stated, as are
any decorations ("charges") placed on it. Its shape is not mentioned
and as this varied considerably over the centuries, it is usual for
the depicting artist to choose the one best suited. Then the crest is
described, but these were not in use until the end of the 14th C. and
some families never adopted one. In its absence it is usual to display
ornamental plumes of feathers. Occasionally there follows the motto
the family have adopted and exceptionally the date of the original
grant is given. The remainder of the achievement is left to the artist
to depict in acceptable heraldic fashion.
The blazon is enhanced by the addition of a helmet, wreath and
mantling. There are rules concerning the type of "helm" depicted and
the direction in which it faces because it is an indication of rank.
The wreath (or "torse") is a twist of two or three pieces of fabric,
and usually each takes one of the principal colours of the shield. It
first appeared in the 14th C. and may have developed from a scarf or
even the custom of wearing a lady's "favour" around the top of the
helmet. In relevant cases the wreath is replaced by a medieval hat
termed a "chapeau" (or "cap of maintenance") or, in the higher ranks,
by a crown or crest coronet.
The crest, which surmounts the wreath, is always depicted to the best
advantage, irrespective of which way the helmet is facing, which means
that it usually faces left, even if the helmet faces the viewer. Some
crests are extremely fanciful and purely artistic but others may well
have actually existed, perhaps having been made from leather which had
been boiled and then moulded when pliant ("cuir bouillée").
Mantling is the name given to the ornamental drapery dropping from the
top of the helm and it is supposed that this originated in a small
cape to provide some protection from the heat of the sun. Up to the
14th C. the colour was usually red with a white or silver lining, but
then it became customary to use one of the colours of the shield with
either a silver or gold lining. Artistically it embodied stylised
tatters, developed and enlarged until sometimes it came right down
both sides of the shield and could even end in large tassels.
The motto may be depicted on a scroll, either above or below the
achievement. Not every family adopted one and successive generations
could always change it if they so desired. They were often in Latin or
French but by no means always.
One further term needs mention. Where a shield is divided into four,
understandingly it is referred to as being "quartered". However, where
shields also include other arms brought in by, for example, by
marriage the whole is still said to be a Quartering, no matter how
many there are.
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
* * * * * * *
* *
Eleanor (nee Whitney) Bull
is related by family to
1. Catherine Carey,
great friend and cousin and companion of the Queeen,
married to Charles Howard, Lord High Admiral,
another cousin of the Queen.
And living in Deptford, the naval area of London.
Catherine has a Whitney grandmother
and a Boleyn grandmother (Mary, Anne's sister,
and aunt to the Queen).
2. Blanche Parry,
companion and nursemaid to the Queen,
and with close Whitney relatives,
who left the Whitneys money in her will,
including a large amount to Eleanor (Whitney) Bull.
>
> * * * * * * *
> * *
>
> Note the marriages to the families of
>
> Parr(e)y - Blanche Parry is the Queen's nursemaid and companion -
>
> and
>
> Lucy - the family living at Charlecote,
> near Stratford on Avon,
> and the story of Shakespeare stealing deer.
>
>
> > * * * * * * *
> > * *
> >
> > Eleanor Bull's REAL status and why she wasn't likely to be keeping a
> > tavern...
> >
> > * * * * * * *
> > * *
> >
> > especially of the low variety!
> >
> > * * * * * * *
> > * *
> >
> >
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
>
> * * * * * * *
> * *
>
> Eleanor (nee Whitney) Bull
>
> is related by family to
> > * * * * * * *
> * *
>
> 1. Catherine Carey,
>
> great friend and cousin and companion of the Queeen,
> married to Charles Howard, Lord High Admiral,
> another cousin of the Queen.
>
> And living in Deptford, the naval area of London.
>
> Catherine has a Whitney grandmother
> and a Boleyn grandmother (Mary, Anne's sister,
> and aunt to the Queen).
>
> 2. Blanche Parry,
>
> companion and nursemaid to the Queen,
> and with close Whitney relatives,
> who left the Whitneys money in her will,
> including a large amount to Eleanor (Whitney) Bull.
>
>
> >
> > * * * * * * *
> > * *
3. Henry Carey, Lord Chamberlain
(Catherine Carey's father)
- the next interesting page
(about "Shakespeare's theatre")
refers to
his acting company,
and those of
Lord Howard, married to Catherine,
and of the Herberts - relatives of the Whitneys.
(quote)
Shakespeare's theatre 1 2 3
2. Companies of players
In 1559, Elizabeth I issued a proclamation calling for all players to
be licensed. The earlier informal troupes of travelling players were
replaced by new touring companies with patrons from among the Queen’s
leading courtiers. In 1583, the Queen became patron of her own
company, the Queen’s Men, who played regularly in London as well as
touring through England. In 1594, the Queen’s Men were replaced by two
newly reorganised companies, the Admiral’s Men and the Lord
Chamberlain’s Men. They shared a monopoly over theatre performances in
London.
These companies could invest in their permanent playhouses in the
capital. They could put on many more plays, and they could afford
expensive costumes. They were thus able to attract regular audiences.
Most important, they required the services of dramatists like
Shakespeare to create new plays to satisfy those audiences with their
insatiable desire for novelty.
Admiral’s Men
The company known as Lord Howard’s Men was formed in 1576 by Charles
Howard, 1st Earl of Nottingham and 2nd Baron Howard of Effingham.
After he became Lord High Admiral in 1585, his company was known as
the Admiral’s Men. They are linked to the first performances of
Shakespeare’s Richard III. The company was reorganised in 1594, with
Philip Henslowe as manager, and Edward Alleyn as their principal
actor. In 1603, they came under the patronage of Prince Henry and were
known as the Prince’s Men. In 1613, following the Prince’s death, the
Elector Palatine became their patron and they were renamed the
Palatine’s Men. The company ceased to play in 1626, after the death of
James I. The Admiral’s Men played at the Rose and later at the
Fortune.
Lord Strange’s Men
Ferdinando Stanley, Lord Strange had his own company of players in the
1570s. Lord Strange’s Men played at court in 1591-1592. In 1592 they
moved to the Rose and stayed there until 1593. Edward Alleyn and
Richard Burbage briefly belonged to Lord Strange’s Men, and
Shakespeare is also likely to have played with the company. Lord
Strange’s Men are linked to the first performances of Shakespeare’s
Richard III and Henry VI, Part 2. In 1593, Lord Strange became 5th
Earl of Derby and his players were then known as Derby’s Men. They
retained this title under his successor, surviving until 1620 although
they did not play in London after 1602.
Lord Chamberlain’s Men
Henry Carey, 1st Lord Hunsdon, became Lord Chamberlain in 1585, and
his company of players became known as the Lord Chamberlain’s Men. The
company was reorganised in 1594, with both Richard Burbage and William
Shakespeare among the players. When Henry Carey died in 1596, his son
George Carey became 2nd Lord Hunsdon and their patron. The players
were known as Lord Hunsdon’s Men until George Carey became Lord
Chamberlain in 1597. They kept the name Lord Chamberlain’s Men until
the accession of James I in 1603, when they became the King’s Men.
Most of Shakespeare’s plays were created for the Lord Chamberlain’s
Men. Between 1594 and 1603, they mostly played in London at the
Theatre, and then at the Globe. The Lord Chamberlain’s Men also played
at court.
King’s Men
The Lord Chamberlain’s men became the King’s Men following the
accession of James I in 1603. Richard Burbage and Shakespeare were
among their leading members, and Shakespeare created further plays for
the company. As the King’s Men, they continued to play at the Globe.
From 1609, they also played at their indoor playhouse at Blackfriars.
The King’s Men ceased to exist when the outbreak of the Civil War
closed the playhouses in 1642.
Pembroke’s Men
Henry Herbert, 2nd Earl of Pembroke, became patron to a company of
players in 1591 or 1592. Richard Burbage and Shakespeare may have
belonged to Pembroke’s Men, who apparently played at the Theatre.
Pembroke’s Men are linked to the earliest performances of
Shakespeare’s Henry VI, Part 3. The company broke up in 1593, although
a troupe of travelling players continued to perform under the Earl’s
patronage until his death in 1601.
Tell me more:
1. Playhouses
2. Companies of players
3. Players
http://www.bl.uk/treasures/shakespeare/companies.html
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
* * *
The Whitney family ancestry -
* * *
I am looking for details of this -
I shall start with the following -
* * *
(quote, excerpts)
The Vaughans of Trebarried were a branch of those of Tre'rtwr
(Tretower), deriving as Vaughans from "Roger Vaughan of Talgarth," and
son,
according to the St. Mark's Coll. MS., of Sir Roger of Tre'rtwr, son
of the first knight (of Agincourt)
of that name.
Maternally they were derived from a Norman line, the mother of the
first Vaughan (Roger)
of Trebarried
being dau. and co-heiress of Robert WHITNEY, Esq.,
commonly called Lord WHITNEY,
and back in direct line to "Roger de Montgomery, Earl of Belesmo" in
Normandy,
who "came into England with William the Conqueror," and so on, as
usual.
from
Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales
Old families of British origin.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M34ystsNDn8C&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95
&dq=vaughan+trebarried+whitney&source=web&ots=I5zSVQyY8h&sig=SFAN
aPe95vvHKu-ZhPaX2gvqfZg&hl=en
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
* * *
The Whitneys descend to Prince William
(son of heir to the throne)
* * *
(quote)
Elizabeth WHITNEY
HRH William's 14-Great Grandmother.
Poss. my 15-Great Grandmother. Born: abt. 1497 Died: ?
....................................................................
Husband: Thomas MORGAN
Child: Anne MORGAN
...................................................................
______ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______ ___ ___ ___
/ -- Robert (Sir) WHITNEY
/ -- Eustace (Sir) WHITNEY (1410 - 1468?)
/ \ -- Wenllian OLDCASTLE
/ -- Robert WHITNEY (1436? - ?)
/ \ -- Jennet TRUSSELL
/ -- James WHITNEY (1465? - ?)
| \ / -- James TOUCHET (TUCHET)
| \ -- Constance TOUCHET (1443? - ?)
/ \ -- Alianor de HOLAND
-- Elizabeth WHITNEY
\ / -- John MILBOURNE
| / -- Simon MILBOURNE (Herefords. 1435? - 1522)
| | \ -- Elizabeth DEVEREUX
| / | OR: Elizabeth DEVEREAUX
\ -- Blanche MILBOURNE (MILBORNE) (by 1469 - ?)
\ / -- Ralph BASKERVILLE
\ -- Jane BASKERVILLE (Herefords. 1439? - ?)
\ -- Anne BLACKETT
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jamesdow/s095/f002940.htm
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
* * *
A link into the Whitney family from
* * *
Constance Princess Of ENGLAND
Father: Edmund "of Langley" Prince Of ENGLAND
Mother: Isabel Princess Of CASTILE AND LEON
* * *
Constance TOUCHET
................................................................................
Birth: Abt 1443
Of Heleigh, Staffordshire, England
................................................................................
Father: James TOUCHET
Mother: Eleanor De HOLAND
................................................................................
Marriage:
Robert WHITNEY
Marriage: Abt 1464
.................................................................................
Eleanor De HOLAND
................................................................................
Birth: Abt 1405
Kenilworth, Warwickshire, England
................................................................................
Father: Edmund De HOLAND
Mother: Constance Princess Of ENGLAND
................................................................................
Marriage:
James TOUCHET
Marriage: 14 Feb 1429
Disp
...................................................................................
Constance Princess Of ENGLAND
................................................................................
Birth: Abt 1374
Of Castle, Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England
Christening:
Of Kings Langley, Hertfordshire, England
Death: 28 Nov 1416
Reading, Berkshire, England
Burial:
Abbey, Reading, Berkshire, England
................................................................................
Father: Edmund "of Langley" Prince Of ENGLAND
Mother: Isabel Princess Of CASTILE AND LEON
................................................................................
Marriage:
Edmund De HOLAND
Marriage:
(not Married)
Thomas Le DESPENCER
Marriage: Aft 16 1378 Apr
Of Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
................................................................................
................................................................................
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
* * *
in the following,
note the family Oldcastle
(Sir John Oldcastle, link to Falstaff)
and
Devereux (Earls of Essex)
(and one of them married Henry Percy, 9th Earl of Northumberland)
> > / \ -- Wenllian OLDCASTLE
> > | | \ -- Elizabeth DEVEREUX
> > | / | OR: Elizabeth DEVEREAUX
* * *
> / -- Robert (Sir) WHITNEY
> > / -- Eustace (Sir) WHITNEY (1410 - 1468?)
> > / \ -- Wenllian OLDCASTLE
> > / -- Robert WHITNEY (1436? - ?)
> > / \ -- Jennet TRUSSELL
> > / -- James WHITNEY (1465? - ?)
> > | \ / -- James TOUCHET (TUCHET)
> > | \ -- Constance TOUCHET (1443? - ?)
> > / \ -- Alianor de HOLAND
* * *
> >
> > -- Elizabeth WHITNEY
* * *
> >
> > \ / -- John MILBOURNE
> > | / -- Simon MILBOURNE (Herefords. 1435? - 1522)
> > | | \ -- Elizabeth DEVEREUX
> > | / | OR: Elizabeth DEVEREAUX
> > \ -- Blanche MILBOURNE (MILBORNE) (by 1469 - ?)
> > \ / -- Ralph BASKERVILLE
> > \ -- Jane BASKERVILLE (Herefords. 1439? - ?)
> > \ -- Anne BLACKETT
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
`````````
More about the intriguing story of Eleanor Bull
and her real place in life...
`````````
(quote)
iii. John Whitney, d. 1597, had made a claim on the estate of his
niece Eleanor (Whitney) Bull, when he stated his residence was at
Lambeth. He died without issue, his will stating he was a servant of
the Archbishop of Canterbury, mentioning his nephew Eustace Whitney of
Clifford, and Eustaces's son James, and Thomas Whitney of Clifford.
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
from the page following...
`````````
(quote)
Family:Whitney, Eustace (s1497-?)
From WRG
Jump to: navigation, search
Eustace Whitney, Esq. (John, [perhaps] Robert, Eustace, Robert,
Robert, Robert, Eustace, Eustace, Robert, ...), perhaps son of John
and ----- (Walter) Whitney, was born say 1475, Gorsington, Clifford,
Herefordshire, and died before 9 October 1525.[1]
He married Ellen Vaughan, "dau. and heir of William Vaughan, the
tyrant of Clifford."[2]
He was of Gorsington.[3]
Children of Eustace and Ellen (Vaughan) Whitney, order uncertain, and
possibly incomplete:
i. James Whitney, b. say 1500; m. Sibyl Parry.[4]
ii. Richard Whitney, of Hardwicke, m. Anne -----.
iii. John Whitney, d. 1597, had made a claim on the estate of his
niece Eleanor (Whitney) Bull, when he stated his residence was at
Lambeth. He died without issue, his will stating he was a servant of
the Archbishop of Canterbury, mentioning his nephew Eustace Whitney of
Clifford, and Eustaces's son James, and Thomas Whitney of Clifford.
iv. William Whitney, d. 1563; m. ----- Vaughan.[5]
v. Eleanor Whitney,, mentioned in her brother William's will,
1558
vi. Margaret Whitney, mentioned in her brother William's will,
1558
vii. Elizabeth Whitney, mentioned in her brother William's will,
1558
References
1.^ Faraday, Michael A. and E. J. L. Cole, editors, Calendar of
probate and administration acts 1407-1541 and abstracts of wills
1541-1581 in the court books of the Bishop of Hereford, (London:
British Record Society: 1989; 1525-1526 Register of William Burghill,
Official Principal, Commissary General and Vicar General, page 223 9
October 1525: Ustans [sic] Whitney of Clifforde. Executor: James his
son (p.3.)
2.^ Henry Austin Whitney, Memoranda Relating to Families of the Name
of Whitney in England (Boston: 1859), p. 3. See also: Bartrum Whitney
Table 2 for his wife's first name.
3.^ Ibid.
4.^ Ibid.
5.^ Henry Austin Whitney, The First Known Use of Whitney as a
Surname: Its Probable Signification, and Other Data (Boston, MA: Henry
Austin Whitney, 1875), p. xv.
Copyright © 2006 Robert L. Ward and the Whitney Research Group
Retrieved from "http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Whitney
%2C_Eustace_%28s1497-%3F%29"
Categories: Medieval | Whitneys of Clifford | England | Herefordshire,
England | Clifford, Herefordshire, England | Gorsington, Clifford,
Herefordshire, England | Whitneys of the 15th Century | Whitneys of
the 16th Century
> > ................................................................................
> >
> > ................................................................................
> >
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > The Whitneys descend to Prince William
> > > (son of heir to the throne)
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > >
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
```````````````````
>
> More about the intriguing story of Eleanor Bull
> and her real place in life...
>
```````````````````
If this family tree is right,
then
ELEANOR BULL
is the NIECE
of
BLANCHE PARRY,
who is so close to the Queen.
```````````````````
It would not be likely she would not know the other Deptford
residents,
the Lord High Admiral (Charles Howard) and his wife,
the OTHER close companion of the Queen.
(i.e., CATHERINE CAREY - a Whitney
- and Boleyn - granddaughter)
```````````````````
AND, daughter of the Lord Chamberlain -
Henry Carey.
(He had an acting company, for those who've forgotten...)
A reason to save Kit Marlowe?
```````````````````
(quote, excerpts)
Children of James Whitney, birth order unknown:
i. Eustace Whitney, Esquire, of Clifford; born say 1550, m.
Constance Vaughan.
ii. Elizabeth Whitney, unmarried in 1562, of Newcourt in Bacton
at her death in 1583. Her will dated 10 Dec 1583 mentions father James
Whitney, brothers James and Thomas Whitney, sister Katherine Whitney,
base sister Jane Whitney, "cosin" (nephew?) Robert Vaughan, and niece
Elizabeth Jones.
iii. Blanche Whitney, unmarried in 1562, apparently the
goddaughter of her Aunt Blanche Parry, mentioned in her will and the
will of her brother Eustace in 1599.
iv. Elinor Whitney, b. say 1550?, d. Mar 1596, m. 14 Oct 1571 St.
Mary le Bow, London, Richard Bull, d. Deptford, Kent. She was buried
at Deptford (greater London area) 19 Mar 1596. Paul C. Reed stated
"After her husband Richard's death at Deptford, Kent, Eleanor
apparently let out a room, though she did not run a tavern or anything
of that like. It was at her house that the playwright and poet
Christopher Marlowe was slain by Ingram Frizer in 1593."
v. Katherine Whitney, unmarried in 1562, and still in 1583.
vi. Jane Whitney, unmarried in 1562.
vii. Myles Whitney.
viii. James Whitney, mentioned in his sister's will.
ix. Thomas Whitney, m. Margaret (Thomas) Parry.
x. Robert Whitney, Paul C. Reed stated "alive when mentioned in
his father's will in 1562, and thus not Robert of Castleton in
Clifford who died in 1555. He appears to have been still in school in
1562."
xi. William Whitney. He appears to have still been in school in
1562.
xii. Anne Whitney, "my base daughter".
References
1. Elwyn Ll. Evans, "The Whitneys of Clifford, Herefordshire:
Forebears of the Duppa Family of Hollingbourne, Kent," typescript at
Hereford County Record Office.
2. Whitney, Henry Austin, Memoranda Relating to Families of the Name
of Whitney in England, (Boston: 1859).
Categories: Pages flagged for rename | Flagged Pages | Medieval |
Whitneys of Clifford | England | Herefordshire, England | Clifford,
Herefordshire, England | Whitneys of the 16th Century
http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Whitney%2C_James_%28s1520%3F-1564%29
```````````````````
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
```````````````````
Whitney heraldry again.
```````````````````
(quote, excerpts)
WHITNEY HERALDRY
The heraldry of the Whitney family (John of Watertown) has been
established by Thomas Fuller in his "History of the Worthies of
England." He states that the arms of Sir Robert Whitney, of Whitney,
Knight, and sheriff of Herefordshire in the year 1377 (the first year
of Richard the Second). The arms bore "Az, a cross checky or and
Gules."
Before this date it is not known if the family bore arms, but it is
supposed that the heraldry was born during the Crusades. The College
of Arms notes that these remained the same until John Whitney migrated
to America in 1635.
The same authorities describe the crest that went with the arms as "A
bull s head, couped sa. armed arg. the points gu."
The motto of the Whitneys of Herefordshire was "Galllantly uphold the
cross."
All the Whitney families in Great Britain apparently retained the
original crest unaltered: the Whitneys of Merton, Wexford; Whitney of
Cheshire, in Gloucester; Whitney of Herefordshire; Whitney of
Shropshire; Benjamin Whitney,Esq. of Upper Fitzwilliam Street, Dublin,
Ireland; Fetherston Whitney, Edmund Whitney, Esq. of Neopass, County
Westmeath, Ireland.
The Whitney arms and crest alone, and a shield with sixteen
quarterings, are shown at the College of Arms, London, England.
http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Archive:Whitney_Whistler%2C_Volume_6%2C_Number_1
> > >
> > >
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
(quote, excerpts)
RICHARD BULL
Marriages:
ELINOR WHITNEY
Marriage:
14 OCT 1571 Saint Mary Le Bow, London, London, England
````````````````````````````
The name of the church
Throughout the Middle Ages, after the 12th century, the church's name
is almost invariably given as St. Mary de arcubus in Latin or as des
arches in French. In the English vernacular of the 14th and 15th
centuries the name usually appears as St. Mary atte Bowe, a form which
persisted into the 16th century. The names 'Bowchurch', 'St. Mary
Bowe' (or occasionally 'St. Mary de Bowe'), and 'Bowchurchyard' were
commonly used in the 16th century and later. The name 'St. Mary le
Bow' does not appear to have been introduced until the later 16th
century, or to have been widely adopted until the 17th.
```````````````````
The crypt
At this time the greater part of the crypt was probably let out for
use as storage. Stow records that a cellar there had been let for 4s.
a year and two vaults for 15s. 'both' (presumably meaning each). In
1546 the parish received £1. 13s. 4d. rent from William Lok and
William Carkek, scrivener, both prominent parishioners who lived near
by, for 3 vaults or cellars made in the vault beneath the church 'in
the soil whereupon the said church is situate', At the time of the
Great Fire Martha Hammond, widow, held the cellars beneath the church
on a lease which was due to terminate in about 1674. As a result of
the Fire part of the vaulting fell in, and between 1671 and 1673 the
remainder of the cellar was used to store building materials. For this
period Mrs. Hammond was paid £20 p.a. in compensation for her interest
there. Mrs. Hammond held several properties immediately opposite the
church (104/23B, 24E, 25-6) and until shortly before the Fire had also
held a house just to the N. of the church (104/18). (fn. 44)
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=8467
````````````````````````````
The crypt which sat (and still sits today) beneath the 11th century
church was the first arched crypt found in any church in London. The
'le-Bow' in the church’s name derives from those arches, and the Latin
name Sancta Marie-de-Arcubus bears further witness to the importance
of the arched crypt. The 1087 building was apparently one of the
earliest stone churches in London, and the tower of that church was
crowned by five lanterns, four at the corners of the tower and the
fifth held aloft on flying buttresses. In the eleventh century St Mary-
le-Bow was known as St Mary Newchurch to distinguish it from its near
neighbour St Mary Aldermary (Older Mary) which is located at the end
of Bow Lane, about two hundred yards to the south of St Mary-le-Bow.
The City of London in those days was London; a densely populated
square mile in which tens of thousands of people lived in close
proximity and in a large number of tiny wards and parishes, each
having its own parish church. The emerging suburb of Westminster was a
long walk from London, through fields and pastureland, with villages
like Holborn as stopping points along the way.
Arising from its close relationship with the See of Canterbury, St
Mary’s served as the meeting place of the medieval Court of Arches,
though a Daily Telegraph pamphlet produced in 1964 to mark the re-
consecration of the church notes that 'the Court was later moved to
the Sanctuary of Westminster where its successors now meet'. That
temporary relocation has happily now been reversed, however, and the
Court of Arches once again meets at St Mary-le-Bow today. Every
diocesan bishop in the southern province of the Church of England
today receives confirmation of his or her election at St Mary-le-Bow
and it is here also that they take the Oath of Allegiance, in the
presence of the Archbishop of Canterbury, prior to their enthronement.
http://www.stmarylebow.co.uk/?History:The_Crypt
````````````````````````````
The first references to a church on the site of St Mary-le-Bow seem to
date from 1087 by which time a Norman church had been erected there.
From earliest times it was closely associated with the See of
Canterbury - as one of the archbishop’s 'London Peculiars' - and may
in fact have served as Archbishop Lanfranc’s London headquarters.
In 1091 the roof of the church was blown off in a huge storm which
battered the south of England during the winter of that year. The roof
became embedded by its rafters in the street of Chepe, now Cheapside,
Old London’s main thoroughfare which runs east-to-west just to the
north of St Mary-le-Bow. A famous siege took place at St Mary’s in
1196 and in 1271 the tower collapsed into the street outside.
By 1512 the tower had been reconstructed and the church was able to
enjoy over 150 years of structural peace. But in the Great Fire which
raged through London in 1666, the whole of the medieval church apart
from the crypt beneath was utterly destroyed. Between 1670 and 1683 St
Mary’s was rebuilt by Sir Christopher Wren.
St Mary’s acquired a number of its now-dormant neighbouring parishes
by an Act of Parliament of 1952 which reduced the number of City
parishes from 46 to 24.
http://www.stmarylebow.co.uk/?History:1087_-_Present_Day
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> > >
> > >
lackpurity
>
> > ```````````````````
>
> > > (quote)
>
> > > iii. John Whitney, d. 1597, had made a claim on the estate of his
> > > niece Eleanor (Whitney) Bull, when he stated his residence was at
> > > Lambeth. He died without issue, his will stating he was a servant of
> > > the Archbishop of Canterbury, mentioning his nephew Eustace Whitney of
> > > Clifford, and Eustaces's son James, and Thomas Whitney of Clifford.
>
> > > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
> > > > * * *
>
> > > > * * *
>
> > > > * * *
>
> > > > > * * *
>
>
> > > > > ................................................................................
>
> > > > > > * * *
>
> > > > > > The Whitneys descend to Prince William
> > > > > > (son of heir to the throne)
>
> > > > > > * * *
>
> > > > > > > * * *
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
MM:
Anagram for C. Marlowe Frizer:
Calmer Frowzier
MM:
Obviously, Marlowe was the calmer, since he was the Sat Guru. Frizer
must have been frowzy, dirty, or unkempt.
Michael Martin
Lyra
lackpurity wrote:
>
> On May 26, 2:59�pm, Lyra wrote:
>
> > > ```````````````````
> >
> > > > More about the intriguing story of Eleanor Bull
> > > > and her real place in life...
> >
> > > ```````````````````
> >
> > > If this family tree is right,
> >
> > > then
> >
> > > ELEANOR BULL
> >
> > > is the NIECE
> >
> > > of
> >
> > > BLANCHE PARRY,
> >
> http://www.stmarylebow.co.uk/?History:1087_-_Present_Day
> >
> > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````�````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> Anagram for C. Marlowe Frizer:
>
> Calmer Frowzier
>
> MM:
> Obviously, Marlowe was the calmer, since he was the Sat Guru. Frizer
> must have been frowzy, dirty, or unkempt.
>
>
```````````````````
I say he was NOT. Unless any proof is found.
He would, however, likely be a FREEZER - a Scorpio type.
A tough guy - well able to look after himself...
and freeze others' blood.
He is also likely to be a Fraser/Frazer/Frizzell - a Scottish clan.
Coat of arms, 3 strawberry plants (fraise/s) (French).
Like so many others, a pun.
Lyra
```````````````````
Not many anagrams for his name -
like the man, it's tough, gives nothing away.
```````````````````
Ingram Frizer
```````````````````
Grazer Infirm
Grazer In Firm
Raze Firm - Grin
Raze Firm, Ring
Razing Re Firm
The "Firm" is some group of people he is dealing with.
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Ingram ffrysar
```````````````````
Farm - Angry - Firs
Far Angry Firms
Far Far Rings My
Far Far Grins My
Far Far - My Grins
Far Rang My Firs
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
>
> > >
> > > > > ```````````````````
> > > >
> > > > > > More about the intriguing story of Eleanor Bull
> > > > > > and her real place in life...
> > > >
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> > > >
> > > > > If this family tree is right,
> > > >
> > > > > then
> > > >
> > > > > ELEANOR BULL
> > > >
> > > > > is the NIECE
> > > >
> > > > > of
> > > >
> > > > > BLANCHE PARRY,
```````````````````
> > > >
> > > http://www.stmarylebow.co.uk/?History:1087_-_Present_Day
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I'm adding here some of an earlier thread -
titled
Eleanor Bull, and John Bull, maybe a spy...
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
(First post in the thread)
(quote)
From: Lyra
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007
Subject: Eleanor Bull, and John Bull, maybe a spy...
^^^^^^
Eleanor Bull was the widow of Richard Bull of Deptford.
Some research into the Bull family has shown they had a coat-of-arms.
I don't recall details of the family, but I wonder if it includes the
following...
note that he may have carried out work as a spy...
"Queen Elizabeth who admired him greatly.
There is some evidence that she sent Bull on espionage missions. [2]"
and the idea that he is Eleanor's brother-in-law...
"Eleanor Bull's brother-in-law Dr. John Bull"
^^^^^^
also, Christopher Marlowe's link to the Chapel Royal,
where John Bull was a singer and an organist.
(quote)
Dido, Queen of Carthage based on Virgil for the Children of the Chapel
Royal c. 1583/4
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(quote, excerpts)
^^^^^^
John Bull (composer)
John Bull (1562 or 1563-March 12, 1628) was a English composer,
musician, and organ builder. He was a renowned keyboard performer and
most of his compositions were written for this medium.
Life
John Bull was probably born in Hereford in England[1]. In 1573 he
joined the choir at Hereford cathedral,
and the next year joined the Children of the Chapel Royal in London,
where he studied with John Blitheman and William Hunnis; in addition
to singing he learned to play the organ at this time.
In 1586 he received his degree from Oxford, and he became a Gentleman
of the Chapel Royal that same year. In 1591 he became organist at the
Chapel Royal; in 1592 he received his doctorate from Oxford,
and in 1596 he became the first professor of music at Gresham College
on the recommendation of Queen Elizabeth who admired him greatly.
There is some evidence that she sent Bull on espionage missions. [2]
^^^^^^
Notes
1. ^ John Bull: Keyboard Music. Calendar of the Life of John Bull,
compiled by Thurston Dart, vol I, p. xxi.
2. ^ Leigh Henry, pp.153-170.
^^^^^^
On the death of Elizabeth, he entered into the service of King James.
Throughout this time he was establishing a reputation for himself as a
skilled composer, keyboard performer and improviser.
Bull left England secretly and with great haste in 1613, fleeing the
wrath of the Archbishop of Canterbury and King James I himself; the
charge this time was adultery.
Bull remained in the Netherlands, where it seems he stayed out of
trouble. In 1615 Antwerp Cathedral appointed him as assistant
organist, and as principal organist in 1617.
Bull wrote a series of letters while in the Netherlands, including one
to the mayor of Antwerp, claiming that the reason he left England was
to escape religious persecution, since he was a Catholic; he seems to
have been believed, for he was never extradited back to England.
In the 1620s he continued his career as an organist, organ builder and
consultant. He died in Antwerp.
^^^^^^
Works
Bull was one of the most famous composers of keyboard music of the
early 17th century, exceeded only by Sweelinck in the Netherlands,
Frescobaldi in Italy, and, some would say, by his countryman and
elder, the celebrated William Byrd. He left many compositions for
virginals, some of which were collected in the Fitzwilliam Virginal
Book.
His first (and only) publication, in 1612 or 1613, was a contribution
of seven pieces forming part of a collection of virginal music
entitled Parthenia, or the Maydenhead of the First Musicke That Ever
Was Printed for the Virginalls, dedicated to the 15-year-old Princess
Elizabeth, who was his student, on the occasion of her betrothal to
Frederick, Elector Palatine of the Rhine. The other contributors to
Parthenia were Bull's contemporaries William Byrd and Orlando Gibbons,
among the most famous composers of the age. Bull also wrote an anthem,
God the father, God the son, for the wedding in 1613 of the Princess
to Prince Friedrich, the Elector Palatinate.
In addition to his keyboard compositions, he wrote verse anthems,
canons and other works. His 5 part anthem Almighty God, Which By The
Leading of a Star, known colloquially as the Star Anthem was the most
popular Jacobean verse anthem occurring in more contemporary sources
than any other.
Much of his music was lost when he fled England; some was destroyed,
and some was stolen by other composers, though occasionally such
misattributions can be corrected today based on stylistic grounds. One
of the most unusual collections of music from the period is his book
of 120 canons, an astonishing display of contrapuntal skill worthy of
Ockeghem or J.S. Bach. 116 of the 120 are based on the Miserere.
Techniques employed to transform the simple theme include diminution,
augmentation, retrograde and mixed time signatures. Some of his music
in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book is of a lighter character and uses
whimsical titles: "A Battle and No Battle," "Bonny Peg of Ramsey,"
"The King's Hunt," "Bull's Good-Night."
He is sometimes attributed with the composition of God Save the Queen,
the British national anthem.
References and further reading
Wikisource has an original article from the 1911 Encyclopædia
Britannica about:
Bull, John
Notes
1. ^ John Bull: Keyboard Music. Calendar of the Life of John Bull,
compiled by Thurston Dart, vol I, p. xxi.
2. ^ Leigh Henry, pp.153-170.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bull_%28composer%29"
Categories: 1562 births | 1628 deaths | Baroque composers |
Renaissance composers | Welsh composers | Tudor people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bull_%28composer%29
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
from the second post in the thread -
(quote)
"Eleanor Bull's brother-in-law Dr. John Bull
stood likewise in services
of the founder of the British secret service Sir Francis Walsingham
with expanded journeys by England and the continent."
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
and a link to the thread itself -
lackpurity
MM:
I was thinking about the name "Ingram." It sounds like "engram."
Engram, as I recall is an important word in scientology. It means
basically a mental problem, IMO. It might be equivalent to
"sanskara," in Sant Mat. IOW, an engram is a mental habit, which has
been in the mind, with deep roots, for a long time. In order to be
spiritually free, we have to merge into the Holy Spirit, and rise
above these mental desires and attachments to this world.
I know very little about Ingram Frizer, but maybe he some bad mental
habits, which resulted in the death of Marlowe? Maybe he couldn't
control his temper?
Thanks, Lyra. The angrams including "angry," and "raze," indicates
that he most likely had some serious mental problems. That's just my
opinion.
Michael Martin
lackpurity
MM:
This might be the one to describe him, Lyra. Grazer just means that
to many people he appeared to be peacefully living on this plane.
"Infirm" means, however, that he was a mental case. He could have
been like a volcano, which suddenly erupts? Here is the definition
for "Infirm:"
Quick definitions (infirm)
adjective: lacking firmness of will or character or purpose
(Example: "Infirm of purpose")
adjective: weak and feeble
adjective: lacking physical strength or vitality
adjective: confined to bed (by illness)
> Grazer In Firm
>
> Raze Firm - Grin
> Raze Firm, Ring
>
> Razing Re Firm
MM:
The last three indicate "destructive engrams," within him.
> The "Firm" is some group of people he is dealing with.
MM:
Maybe Marlowe's Cult?
> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
> Ingram ffrysar
>
> ```````````````````
>
> Farm - Angry - Firs
>
> Far Angry Firms
MM:
A lot of anger.
> Far Far Rings My
>
> Far Far Grins My
MM:
Maybe he was far from being a mentally healthy individual?
> Far Far - My Grins
>
> Far Rang My Firs
MM:
He was wandering far, far, way off course, typical characteristics of
a mental case.
Michael Martin
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
>
> ```````````````````
> >
> > More about the intriguing story of Eleanor Bull
> > and her real place in life...
> >
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
From a webpage I've found, some excerpts...
```````````````````
1. The motto
(quote)
The family used the motto 'Magnamiter Crucem Sustine' (Resolutely
uphold the Cross)
`````````
2.
Sir Walter Raleigh, and the Queen, and the Earl of Leicester
(quote)
Much more is known of our second captain, Thomas Whitney, whose ship
'The Encounter' was the largest of Sir Walter Raleigh's fleet in his
last disastrous voyage in 1616 in search of the legendary 'El Derado'
in Venezuala.
When this venture failed, Thomas, with his leader's permission, left
the fleet at Granada and in company with another captain, set sail for
England hoping to plunder on the way Spanish ships also homeward
bound.It is not recorded how he fared but we do know that it is
recorded that he was buried,in 1621, at St. Margaret's Chuch,
Westminster next to the grave of Sir Walter who had been executed
after his return from South America.
`````````
The third person I would mention is Geoffrey Whitney from Norfolk who
was a poet 'of no mean ability' who had several large works published
during the reign of Elizabeth I and had as his patron the Earl of
Leicester.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
3. The Castle
(quote)
As already mentioned, the original Whitney castle was destroyed in
1403 but at some time another must have been built because the
historian Duncomb remarks in 1804 that ‘there is no trace of a castle
there now but, beneath the river which changed course in 1730, marks
of masonry are still to be seen. As late as 1675 the tower of a
castle, if not in existence, was at least in the memory of those who
dwelt beside it’. Successive floods in the 17th. century also washed
away the original Manor House, the Saxon church, the churchyard and
the Rectory but in 1895 the original baptismal font was still in use
in the replacement church built in the 19th. century.
There was a Whitney Court built in Jacobean times with material from
the ruined Whitney Castle and another dated from 1735 but the present
one was completed in 1902.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > The Whitneys descend to Prince William
> > > > > (son of heir to the throne)
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * * *
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Whitney family ancestry -
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * * *
> > > > > >
Lyra
lackpurity wrote:
> >
> > ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> >
> > > I say he was NOT. Unless any proof is found.
> > > He would, however, likely be a FREEZER - a Scorpio type.
> >
> > > A tough guy - well able to look after himself...
> > > and freeze others' blood.
> >
> > `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
```````````````````
He WASN'T ONE.
```````````````````
Nor did he attack Marlowe.
```````````````````
That's all I have to say.
```````````````````
If I go on with this, I shall find it even more impossible to
keep going in current conditions.
```````````````````
I've done what I can for Frizer,
I'm not going on with this.
```````````````````
lackpurity
MM:
Very interesting material, Lyra. It certainly indicates that Eleanor
Bull was more than just a Tavern Owner. Whenever someone has karma
with a Saints, as was Marlowe, they must have some very good karmas to
deserve it. She might have been on of his followers?
Michael Martin
> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> >http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Whitney%2C_James_%28s...
> > > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> > > > > > > > > > > In England.- Hide quoted text -
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
>
> >
> > ```````````````````
> > >
> > > More about the intriguing story of Eleanor Bull
> > > and her real place in life...
> > >
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
> From a webpage I've found, some excerpts...
>
> ```````````````````
4.
Some of the notable Whitneys
(quote)
Sir Robert (III) WHITNEY. First one to drop the ‘de’. Knighted in 1388
and sent, with others, to negotiate a treaty with the Count of
Flanders. Member of Parliament 1391. In 1393 sent to hand over
Cherbourg Castle to the King of Navarre. In 1394 sent to Ireland on
the King’s business and made Knight Marshall, deputy to the Earl
Marshall of England, at the Court of Richard II. Killed at the Battle
of Pilleth fought against the Welsh in 1402.
Sir Robert (IV) WHITNEY. Castle at Whitney destroyed by Welsh in 1403.
Granted the Lordships of CLIFFORD and Glasbury and Clifford Castle by
Henry IV in 1404. Member of Parliament twice. Sheriff of the county
four times. May have been at the Battle of Agincourt in 1419 where a
Thomas Whitney, probably his brother, earned the award of land in
France for services rendered. Made captain of the castle and town of
Vire in France in 1420. Died 1441.
Sir Robert (V) WHITNEY. Probably an active Yorkist in the Wars of the
Roses 1455-1485 and present at the Battle of Mortimer’s Cross near to
the hamlet of Whitney in 1461. Married twice. second wife, Constance,
was a descendant of Edward I and Margaret, daughter of Phillip III of
France.
Sir James (I) WHITNEY, Appointed Receiver of Newport by Henry VIII in
1522. Married Blanche Milbourne who brought with her the large Manor
of Icombe. in Gloucestershire.
Robert (VI) WHITNEY, Esq. In 1524, as Robert Wytney, became Magistrate
for life for Gloucestershire and was also Sheriff for the county
1527-1530. Graduated BCL at Oxford in 1532. As Robert Whitneye was
made Knight of the Bath by Henry VIII at coronation of Anne Boleyn in
1531. As Robert Witney he is shown as supplying 40 armed men to help
to suppress a rebellion in 1536. Named 'to attend upon the King's
person'.Died in 1541.
Sir Robert (VII) WHITNEY. Married Sybil Baskerville, descendant of
Edward I and Eleanor, daughter of Ferdinand III, King of Castile. !n
1550 as Robert Whytney appointed Royal Commissioner for Huntington and
Stretford. In 1553, as Robert Witney was made ‘Knight of the Carpet’
by Queen Mary Tudor. As Robert Whitnaye summoned to court in 1555 and
1559. Member of Parliament for Herefordshire in 1559. Died 1567.
Sir Robert (VIII) WHITNEY. Born 1592. Knighted by James I in 1617.
Sheriff in 1639, also tax collector. Sold lands, including Icombe
estate, for funds to support Charles II in Civil War. Led part of
Cavalier forces at Battle of Worcester, 1651. Died 1653. Buried at
Whitney.
Sir Thomas WHITNEY. Made ‘Knight of the Royal Oak’ by Charles II in
1660. Died in 1670 , according to one record, but another author says
he made a Will ‘whilst in failing health’ in 1692. There being no son
his Estate was divided between his daughter Elizabeth and his four
widowed sisters. Thus the long Herefordshire line came to an end.
lackpurity
MM:
All right, Lyra. Since you put it that way, I'm through with Frizer,
too.
Michael Martin