Was Hamlet Unchurched?
Elizabeth Weir
In Elizabethan times the word "hamlet" meant
"village without a church."
The OED defines "hamlet" as "a group of houses or small village
in the country; esp. a village without a church, included in the
parish belonging to another ...
Peter Groves
news:efbc3534.03090...@posting.google.com...
And ... ?
Elizabeth Weir
Very insightful, Groves. That's precisely what I
meant.
And . . ?
Robert Stonehouse
wrote:
>In Elizabethan times the word "hamlet" meant
>"village without a church."
>
>The OED defines "hamlet" as "a group of houses or small village
>in the country; esp. a village without a church, included in the
>parish belonging to another ...
That is, a group of houses that does not constitute a parish. A parish
was the smallest administrative unit - for example, the smallest that
had (still has) a council.
In earlier times, the Church decided what the boundaries were to be -
or rather, the State accepted and used the boundaries that had already
been established by the Church. Until the institution of parish
constables, the parson was the only official in the parish. And the
constable, when he arrived, was rather low in the social order. (The
Justice of the Peace was higher - not sure if he was attached to a
parish. He may well antedate the constable.)
Now, one parish and one church fits together. But the thing that makes
a hamlet, as opposed to a village, is the administrative point of
being part of a parish that was centered elsewhere. It has nothing to
do with being exiled from God; nothing like, say, Manfred, who had the
audacity to dispute the right to a piece of territory with the Pope.
Elizabeth Weir
> On 8 Sep 2003 00:19:56 -0700, elizabe...@mail.com (Elizabeth Weir)
> wrote:
> >In Elizabethan times the word "hamlet" meant
> >"village without a church."
> >
> >The OED defines "hamlet" as "a group of houses or small village
> >in the country; esp. a village without a church, included in the
> >parish belonging to another ...
>
> That is, a group of houses that does not constitute a parish. A parish
> was the smallest administrative unit - for example, the smallest that
> had (still has) a council.
>
> In earlier times, the Church decided what the boundaries were to be -
> or rather, the State accepted and used the boundaries that had already
> been established by the Church.
> Until the institution of parish
> constables, the parson was the only official in the parish.
That's interesting because when Rome fell the former empire
lost its constabulary. So a thousand years later we have the
return of the constables at the parish level.
> And the
> constable, when he arrived, was rather low in the social order. (The
> Justice of the Peace was higher - not sure if he was attached to a
> parish. He may well antedate the constable.)
I'm reading about Sir Thomas Lucy to see if I can prove a theory
that the Stratford butcher escaped to London to avoid military
conscription. The local sheriff had rather extraordinary powers.
Lucy could conscript the poachers he caught to the army which
was a power the central government did not even possess,
> Now, one parish and one church fits together. But the thing that makes
> a hamlet, as opposed to a village, is the administrative point of
> being part of a parish that was centered elsewhere. It has nothing to
> do with being exiled from God; nothing like, say, Manfred, who had the
> audacity to dispute the right to a piece of territory with the Pope.
If the author of Hamlet is making an extended pun on Hamlet's
name and Hamlet is "in a parish with the ecclesiastical authority
centered elsewhere" that might in some way represent Hamlet's
consciousness vis a vis religion. Hamlet's view of theology is
somehow "out of the direct sight of authority."
Elizabeth
Robert Stonehouse
Weir) wrote:
>ew...@bcs.org.uk (Robert Stonehouse) wrote in message news:<3f5cff48...@news.cityscape.co.uk>...
>> On 8 Sep 2003 00:19:56 -0700, elizabe...@mail.com (Elizabeth Weir)
>> wrote:
>> >In Elizabethan times the word "hamlet" meant
>> >"village without a church."
>> >
>> >The OED defines "hamlet" as "a group of houses or small village
>> >in the country; esp. a village without a church, included in the
>> >parish belonging to another ...
>>
>> That is, a group of houses that does not constitute a parish. A parish
>> was the smallest administrative unit - for example, the smallest that
>> had (still has) a council.
>>
>> In earlier times, the Church decided what the boundaries were to be -
>> or rather, the State accepted and used the boundaries that had already
>> been established by the Church.
>
>> Until the institution of parish
>> constables, the parson was the only official in the parish.
>
>That's interesting because when Rome fell the former empire
>lost its constabulary. So a thousand years later we have the
>return of the constables at the parish level.
The Romans had nothing very like the parish constable. In Rome there
were the vigiles, who mostly put down fires, the cohortes urbanae
(city cohorts) who were soldiers and the praetoriani who were the
emperor's personal guard. All these were bodies of men, not
individuals. Some other cities had vigiles, like the south Italian
town(very like Pompeii) in Petronius' Satyricon chapter 78, where they
think Trimalchio's house is on fire, and put an end to his feast by
breaking down the door and rushing all over with axes and water. In
small or remote places, the injured person might call on his
neighbours: Apuleius Metamorphoses 7.13.
>
>> And the
>> constable, when he arrived, was rather low in the social order. (The
>> Justice of the Peace was higher - not sure if he was attached to a
>> parish. He may well antedate the constable.)
>
>I'm reading about Sir Thomas Lucy to see if I can prove a theory
>that the Stratford butcher escaped to London to avoid military
>conscription. The local sheriff had rather extraordinary powers.
>Lucy could conscript the poachers he caught to the army which
>was a power the central government did not even possess,
Not sure. Falstaff gets his men from Justice Shallow, but pressing men
(for the Navy especially) was generally done by a king's officer and
his press gang. If they took criminals, they took them from the
judicial authorities because those were the people who could produce
them. I suspect Justice Shallow would have been in a weak position if
he had refused. But if he had good reason, Falstaff might not have
been in a position to contradict him.
>
>> Now, one parish and one church fits together. But the thing that makes
>> a hamlet, as opposed to a village, is the administrative point of
>> being part of a parish that was centered elsewhere. It has nothing to
>> do with being exiled from God; nothing like, say, Manfred, who had the
>> audacity to dispute the right to a piece of territory with the Pope.
>
>If the author of Hamlet is making an extended pun on Hamlet's
>name and Hamlet is "in a parish with the ecclesiastical authority
>centered elsewhere" that might in some way represent Hamlet's
>consciousness vis a vis religion. Hamlet's view of theology is
>somehow "out of the direct sight of authority."
Not sure I understand this. But the parish was the smallest unit of
government, not just religious organisation.
Art Neuendorffer
-------------------------------------------------------------------
KIRKLESS
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The traditional bow and arrow of Robin Hood are
religiously preserved at KIRKLEES Hall, Yorkshire, the seat of
Sir George Armytage; and the site of his grave is pointed out in the
park. Death of Robin Hood. He was bled to death treacherously by a nun,
instigated to the foul deed by his kinsman, the prior of KIRKLEES,
Yorkshire, near Halifax. Introduced by Sir Walter Scott in Ivanhoe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
KIRKLEES <=> SELKIRK
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Robinson Crusoe: Alexander Selkirk was found in the desert island
of Juan Fernandez, where he had been left by Captain Stradling. He
remained on the island four years and four months, when he was rescued
by Captain Rogers, and brought to England. The embryo of De Foe's
novel may be seen in Captain Burney's interesting narrative.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander Selkirk handed his papers over to DANIEL Defoe
at the house of Mrs. Damaris DANIEL.
_The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe_
was published April 25, 1719.
Daniel Defoe went into hiding the last year of his life &
died in Ropemaker's Alley, Moorfields on April 26, 1731.
Although Defoe was an incredibly productive & successful writer,
"he left no will, all his property having been previously assigned,
and letter of administration were taken out by a creditor."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"in a small kirk"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piskies : a Folk-lore Study Henry Jenner F.S.A
http://www.belinus.co.uk/folklore/CnPiskiesFolklore.htm
<<In 1594 Donald Monro, High Dean' of the Isles,
wrote a statistical account of the Western Isles or Outer Hebrides. One
island, which he describes, he calls the "Pigmies' Isle," and in it he
had found "in a small kirk" the small round heads of little people. In
the towans, as we should call them, on the outer coast of South Uist -
the Machair, as they call them there - the dwellings of small people
have been found. But there is plenty of evidence that a small race did
once exist in Britain. Whether it was contemporary with the Colts and
really went on into historic times is another matter. There are those
who have seen survivals of it in a peculiar dwarfish type which is found
in many places. There are instances of it in Cornwall and also in
Brittany and in the Scottish Highlands, and a great number of the
stories do seem to show, by the manners and ways attributed to
piskies, something very like a folk-memory of such a race.>>
----------------------------------------------------
Thomas Kirk, "Account of a Tour in Scotland" 1677.
"Two Miles Further on we saw Roslen Chapel, a very pretty design,
but was never finished, the choir only and a little Vault. The roof is
all stone, with good imagery work; there is a better man at exact
description of the stories than he at Westminster Abbey: this story is
told us, that the Master builder went abroad to see good patterns, but
before his return his apprentice had built one pillar which exceeded all
that ever he could do, or had seen, therefore he slew him; and he showed
us the head of the apprentice on the wall with a gash in his forehead
and his master's head opposite him.">>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kirk o' Field
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<<February 10, 1567, Henry Stuart, earl of Darnley & consort to Mary
Queen of Scots, was murdered by his wife's order. She made Darnley,
corrupted with venereal disease, sleep in a small house, Kirk o' Field,
behind Holyrood Castle in Edinburgh and had it blown up. When Henry
and a servant tried to escape, they were strangled. She was indicted
for the murder and left the country, ending up imprisoned in England,
Their child was King James I of Britain.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
<<23 July, 1567, at Lochleven, Mary Queen of Scots was forced
to sign an act of withdrawal in favor of her one-year-old son,
who was crowned as James VI five days afterward at Scone.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Feb 1563 => Peace d'Amboise grantes greater freedom to Huguenots
10 Feb 1567 => Henry Stuart/Darnley blown up by Mary Queen of Scots
23 Jul 1567 => Mary Queen of Scots abdicates to James VI(I)
23 Jul 1567 => Vere kills Thomas Brincknell
10 Feb 1605 => "Merchant of Venice" performed for James I
10 Feb 1616 => Judith Shakspere marries T.Quiney
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Burgher Kirk"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bb.com/looptestlive.cfm?bookid=533&startrow=1
<<Thomas Carlyle was born at Ecclefechan in the south of Scotland,
December 4, 1795. His father, a rigorous Calvinist belonging to the
seceding "Burgher Kirk," was a STONE-MASON, a man of stern & upright
character with a gift of fiery speech. Thomas began his education at
home, went next to the village school, thence to the grammar school
at Annan, and in 1809 walked to Edinburgh, a hundred miles away, and
entered the University with a view to preparing for the ministry.
He was appointed mathematical USHER at Annan. But he hated teaching:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
April 25 St. Mark's Day. Thought to be the oldest of 4 Gospels.
http://www.ntin.net/McDaniel/0425.htm
http://www.likesbooks.com/victoria.html
--------------------------------------------------------------
April 25, 387, [EASTER] Bishop AMBROSE baptizes Augustine
April 25, 1214, Louis IX of France (1226-70) born.
April 25, 1284, Edward II of England (1307-27) born.
April 25, 1530, 1st official summary of the Lutheran faith:
read publicly at the Diet of Worms.
April 25, 1599, Oliver Cromwell born.
April 25, 1616, Shakspeare buried.
April 25, 1707, Gulliver observes SUNRISE MERCURY TRANSIT
at Fort St. George, India.
April 25, 1719 _The Life & Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson
Crusoe_
April 25, 1776, Gauss's parents marry.
April 25, 1792, Guillotine was used for the 1st time
- on Nicholas Pelletier, a highwayman.
April 25, 1792, John Keble, Founder of the 1833 Oxford Movement, born.
April 25, 1800, William Cowper, English poet, dies.
His dementia made him believed he was damned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
April 25, 1816, Lord Byron left England. He was heavily in debt, & his
personal life was the scandal of the day (his wife had separated from
him and had tried to have him declared insane, and London gossip mills
were working overtime with stories of his incestuous relationship with
Augusta Leigh. A contemporary newspaper cartoon shows Byron in a boat
with his arms around two loose women and his hands holding booze
bottles, bidding good-bye to England.
April 25, 1843, Princess Alice, 2nd daughter of Queen Victoria, born.
She was married to the heir to the Grand Duchy of Hesse,
Louis, and had five children that grew to adulthood.
The princesses of Hesse, Victoria, Elizabeth & Irene, were renowned
for their beauty & called "the Three Graces". A much younger fourth
sister was the future doomed Empress Alexandra of Russia.
Victoria, the oldest sister, was grandmother to Prince Philip.
A tireless social reformer & follower of Florence Nightingale
Alice was the first of Queen Victoria's children to die.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
April 25, 1846, American soldiers skirmish with Mexican troops
north of the Río Grande near Brownsville,
will lead to a declaration of war against Mexico.
April 25, 1859, Suez Canal begun.
April 25, 1874, Guglielmo Marconi born in Bologna, Italy.
April 25, 1885, The Trollope-Plorn Trial
April 25, 1898, Congress declares war on Spain
On same day William SIDNEY PORTER enters a Federal prison for
embezzlement as a bank teller in Austin, Texas. Dr. Gerald Langford
believes PORTER took the rap for his father-in-law, an officer of
the bank. PORTER was arrested and was being transported back to
Austin when he jumped the west-bound train in Columbus, Texas,
and caught an east-bound one. From Houston he fled to Honduras.
He later came home when his wife became ill.
In prison he worked in the prison pharmacy and
began writing under the pen-name *O. HENRY*.
April 25, 1938, Peter Farey born
------------------------------------------------------------
_Secrets of E.A.Poe, DeChirico, apples, redemption, etc_
http://www.unverse.com/id-books-1582430357
<<Originally read as a lecture at the University of Toronto
back in 1982, this book is a rich tapestry depicting the strange,
wonderful, recondite, unexpected weaving of literature and the
time-honored symbolism within the tradition of still-life paintings
(i.e., [A]p[Ple] & pear as [THE FALL] & Redemption, respectively;)>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[A]lice [Ple]asance Liddell (1852-1934)
http://www.pancakeparlour.com/Wonderland/Alice_Liddell/From8to80/Drawing/dra
wing.html
<<Alice wasn't the little girl with long, fair hair as Tenniel depicted.
She had dark hair as shown in the photograph that Charles Dodgeson cut
into an oval and attached to the last page of his handwritten manuscript.
Some time later it was discovered that this photograph was pasted over a
drawing of Alice by the author. "[A Ple]asure in all their simple joys">>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
April 25, 1856, Charles Luttwedge Dodgson meets
[A]lice [Ple]asance Liddell in the garden
http://www.gilberthetherwick.com/alice.php
<<It was soon after the Liddell family moved to Oxford from Westminster that
Charles Dodgeson first saw Alice. He went to the Deanery to help his friend
Reginald Southey take a photograph of Christ Church Cathedral,
and Alice was playing in the garden with her sisters.
The children, particularly Alice, became Dodgeson's favourite photographic
subjects and many photographs exist that were taken at that time.
http://www.library.ubc.ca/spcoll/alice/alice01.jpg
Alice, as a little beggar girl.
{Photographed in the late 1850s by Dodgeson, )
Although Alice was obviously Dodgeson's favourite, her sisters, Lorina &
Edith, were included in the storytelling and on the boat trips when they
would all plead for more of the story. Edith died in 1876 aged 22, just
before she was to be married. This had a profound effect on Alice and
although it was rumoured that Prince Leopold, Queen Victoria's son and
possibly Dodgson himself, wished to marry her, it was said that because of
the shock of Edith's death, Alice waited until 1880 before marrying Reginald
Hargreaves. After Alice grew up there was little contact between her and
Dodgson. An apparent coolness developed between Dodgeson and the Dean and
Mrs Liddell, who perhaps disapproved of his possible interest in marrying
Alice. She was just seventeen when he photographed her for the last time.
As Alice grew older and the Alice books became more popular she became
an object of curiosity... the real Alice. Usually this embarrassed her.
Alice
always kept the manuscript of her adventures in Wonderland until her husband
died in 1928. Money was needed to pay death duties. The family considered
the items they could sell to pay the required amount and finally decided
on the Alice manuscript, the most valuable item they possessed.
Sotherby's suggested a reserve price of £4,000. It fetched £15,400,
an enormous amount in those days and went to America.
During the auction Alice was in the limelight again & the press
photographed her with headlines about the 'real Alice'...a poor, childless,
widowed lady who had to let her country house to make ends meet.>>
http://www.pancakeparlour.com/Wonderland/Alice_Liddell/From8to80/from8to80.h
tml
<<In 1932, when she was eighty, Alice undertook one last engagement
on behalf of Wonderland. She was invited to New York on the centenary of
Dodgeson's birth to attend the celabrations and to receive an Honorary
Degree from Columbia University. There were press receptions, police escorts
through New York and a suite at the Waldorf Astoria. After the visit to
New York there were many letters, requests for autographs and requests for
personal appearances, but by this time Alice was becoming exausted by the
demands. She wrote to her son "But, oh my dear, I am tired of being Alice in
Wonderland. Do I sound ungrateful? It is-only I do get tired". Alice Liddell
died not long after at the age of 82, in 1934, at Westerham in Kent.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Elizabeth Weir
> <<In 1594 Donald Monro, High Dean' of the Isles,
> wrote a statistical account of the Western Isles or Outer Hebrides. One
> island, which he describes, he calls the "Pigmies' Isle," and in it he
> had found "in a small kirk" the small round heads of little people. In
> the towans, as we should call them, on the outer coast of South Uist -
> the Machair, as they call them there - the dwellings of small people
> have been found. But there is plenty of evidence that a small race did
> once exist in Britain.
Are you suggesting that Oxford was a Hobbit?
> Whether it was contemporary with the Colts and
> really went on into historic times is another matter. There are those
> who have seen survivals of it in a peculiar dwarfish type which is found
> in many places.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> A contemporary newspaper cartoon shows Byron in a boat
> with his arms around two loose women and his hands holding booze
> bottles, bidding good-bye to England.
There's not nearly enough of this sort of ridicule.
> April 25, 1843, Princess Alice, 2nd daughter of Queen Victoria, born.
> She was married to the heir to the Grand Duchy of Hesse,
> Louis, and had five children that grew to adulthood.
> The princesses of Hesse, Victoria, Elizabeth & Irene, were renowned
> for their beauty & called "the Three Graces".
One of the Hapsburg family secrets is that Victoria was
a Hobbit and not a pretty one.
<http://www.victoriana.com/doors/images/queen-7.JPG>
And of course Prince Charles is the Hapsburg Anti-Christ--
a presumption made inevitable by the Stratfordian suppression
of the real doctrine in the Shakespeare works:
<http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980717_f.html>
The Shakespeare works are classical Catholic, traditional,
republican and edenic, not apocalyptic. In other words,
expressly not Protestant. You can see what a plunge in
human consciousness Stratfordianism has sponsored.
So, what's it like to be a Lutheran?
> A much younger fourth
> sister was the future doomed Empress Alexandra of Russia.
> Victoria, the oldest sister, was grandmother to Prince Philip.
> A tireless social reformer & follower of Florence Nightingale
> Alice was the first of Queen Victoria's children to die.
Victoria's private diaries show that she loved sex and
hated pregnancy and babies. Sort of the reverse
perfect Victorian wife. She would visit her younger children
at bedtime "perhaps once in three months."
She was cruel to her children--she simply didn't
like them--especially Leopold who had a crushed arm
from forceps used at his birth. She ridiculed him constantly.
Inbreeding--a horrible institution--makes you hate your
children. Identical twin studies have exposed the underbelly
of inbreeding--royalty will do beastly things to maintain the
royal geneaology but they are without empathy toward
each other.
The Windsors have finally taken notice of Mendel--that
did't take long--what--a century and a half?--and
no longer pour over royal genealogy tables to find the
princess with the purest blood. Charles will be the
last of the genetic oddities.
The implication, Art, is that "17th earl" is not
necessarily a great asset. The people with tiny skulls
you noted above were *stuck on an island.*
Upper tiers of the nobility are "genetic islands."
The Amish are a tragic "genetic island" because they
now have the highest spinal bifida rate in the world.
Not to speak of other gappy chromosomes. It's a genuine
tragedy but of course they have their heads up their
ideological asses so you can't tell them anything.
Those "joys"--like Webb's--require intensive psychoanalysis.
That is grotesque. Dodson was a pedophile and essentially
a stalker of children. He ruined that child's life. It's annoying
to have Webb stalking my spelling errors--Webb's substitute
for human contact--he's really stalking me--but I can handle
Webb. A child cannot process that kind of "attention." It's
despicable.
Art Neuendorffer
>_____________________________________________
>
> > <<In 1594 Donald Monro, High Dean' of the Isles,
> > wrote a statistical account of the Western Isles or Outer Hebrides.
> > One island, which he describes, he calls the "Pigmies' Isle," and in it
he
> > had found "in a small kirk" the small round heads of little people. In
> > the towans, as we should call them, on the outer coast of South Uist -
> > the Machair, as they call them there - the dwellings of small people
> > have been found. But there is plenty of evidence that a small race
> > did once exist in Britain.
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> Are you suggesting that Oxford was a Hobbit?
No, Bacon's secretary (Thomas Hobbes) & his USHER (I thinke):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Francis Bacon's death [was] on Easter Sunday..." April 9, 1626
11 days after Francis Bacon's death, his widow marries
Sir John UNDERHILL, "the gentleman USHER" of their household.
Aubrey:
<<[Bacon's] Dowager married her Gentleman-USHER Sir Thomas (I thinke)
UNDERHILL, whom she made deafe & blinde with too much of Venus.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<<In 3018, on Gandalf the GREY's advice, [Frodo] left Bag End
under the name of MR. UNDERHILL to go to Rivendell.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<<For some time [Shakespeare] had had his eye on New place, the 'praty
howse of brike and tymber' opposite the Gild Chapel and his old school.
The owner was William UNDERHILL, 'a covertous and crafty man'
who stood out for a stiff price, and in May Shakespeare paid him £60
for the house with its two barns, two gardens and two orchards.
("UNO MESUAGIO DUOBUS HORREIS ET DUOBUS GARDINIS")
A FEW WEEKS LATER UNDERHILL WAS POISONED by his crazy son.>>
-F.E.Halliday _Shakespeare_ p.73.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sirbacon.org/links/parentage.htm
<<The former owner of New Place, the house Shakespeare bought
for 60 pounds in Stratford in 1597, after only five years in London,
was William Underhill, the son of William Underhill(d. 1570)
of Inner Temple and kinsman of John Underhill,
a gentleman USHER to Francis Bacon.
William Underhill's stepbrother was William Hatton,
whose widow, Elizabeth, in 1597 was courted by Bacon.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<<In 3018, on Gandalf the GREY's advice, he left Bag End
under the name of MR. UNDERHILL to go to Rivendell. Going with
him were Samwise GamGEE, PEREGRIN Took, and Meriadoc Brandybuck.>>
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/baggins.html
<<UNDERHILL: the part of HOBBITON that lay directly beneath HOBBITON
Hill. Its most famous SMIAL ('hobbit-hole') was in the Hill: Bag End.
Baggins: An old family of the Shire found mostly in the HOBBITON region
of the Westfarthing. The family seat was at the SMIAL of Bag End in
UNDERHILL. They had always been an important family in the Shire,
and gave rise to the two most important Hobbits of the Third Age,
Bilbo the Ring-finder and Frodo the Ring-bearer.>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
<<An existing copy of the Latin 'fine' of May 4, 1597 assigns to
Shakspere a MESSUAGE with two barns & *2 gardens* . William
UNDERHILL, who lived part of the year at Idlicote, was a Catholic recusant
who appeared to Stephen Burman to be 'CRAFTY'. Two months after
the sale, UNDERHILL was killed by HIS SON FULKe, then a legal minor,
to whom he had orally bequeathed his lands. UNDERHILL died at
Fillongley near Coventry on July 7, 1597. As a result, New Place was
forfeited to the state for felony, and FULKe was hanged for murder
in 1599. The crime kept his right to the house insecure until the
victim's 2nd son Hercules UNDERHILL came of age in 1602.>> -P. Honan
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.thepalantir.com/characters/frodo.html
Frodo Baggins Birth: 2968 (SR 1368) Death: None*
r a Race: Hobbit Sex: Male
a c
n o *Frodo is not accounted to have died,
c n for he went away at the GREY Havens.
i
s Gris Havres
a a
b r
r v
i e
e y
l
------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net> wrote
> > Whether it was contemporary with the Colts and
> > really went on into historic times is another matter. There are
> > those who have seen survivals of it in a peculiar dwarfish type
> > which is found in many places.
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > A contemporary newspaper cartoon shows Byron in a boat
> > with his arms around two loose women and his hands holding
> > booze bottles, bidding good-bye to England.
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> There's not nearly enough of this sort of ridicule.
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net> wrote
> > April 25, 1843, Princess Alice, 2nd daughter of Queen Victoria, born.
> > She was married to the heir to the Grand Duchy of Hesse,
> > Louis, and had five children that grew to adulthood.
> > The princesses of Hesse, Victoria, Elizabeth & Irene,
> > were renowned for their beauty & called "the Three Graces".
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> One of the Hapsburg family secrets is that Victoria
> was a Hobbit and not a pretty one.
>
> <http://www.victoriana.com/doors/images/queen-7.JPG>
>
> And of course Prince Charles is the Hapsburg Anti-Christ--
Good Grief!
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> a presumption made inevitable by the Stratfordian suppression
> of the real doctrine in the Shakespeare works:
>
> <http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980717_f.html>
>
> The Shakespeare works are classical Catholic, traditional,
> republican and edenic, not apocalyptic. In other words,
> expressly not Protestant. You can see what a plunge in
> human consciousness Stratfordianism has sponsored.
>
> So, what's it like to be a Lutheran?
Ask Garrison Keillor.
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net> wrote
> > A much younger fourth
> > sister was the future doomed Empress Alexandra of Russia.
> > Victoria, the oldest sister, was grandmother to Prince Philip.
> > A tireless social reformer & follower of Florence Nightingale
> > Alice was the first of Queen Victoria's children to die.
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> Victoria's private diaries show that she loved sex and
> hated pregnancy and babies. Sort of the reverse
> perfect Victorian wife. She would visit her younger
> children at bedtime "perhaps once in three months."
>
> She was cruel to her children--she simply didn't
> like them--especially Leopold who had a crushed arm
> from forceps used at his birth. She ridiculed him constantly.
> Inbreeding--a horrible institution--makes you hate your
> children.
Does it really!?
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> Identical twin studies have exposed the underbelly
> of inbreeding--royalty will do beastly things to maintain the
> royal geneaology but they are without empathy toward
> each other.
>
> The Windsors have finally taken notice of Mendel--that
> did't take long--what--a century and a half?-
There were no "Windsors" before 1917.
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> The implication, Art, is that "17th earl"
> is not necessarily a great asset.
I wonder what Webb would respond to that?
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> The people with tiny skulls
> you noted above were *stuck on an island.*
>
> Upper tiers of the nobility are "genetic islands."
>
> The Amish are a tragic "genetic island" because they
> now have the highest spinal bifida rate in the world.
> Not to speak of other gappy chromosomes. It's a genuine
> tragedy but of course they have their heads up their
> ideological asses so you can't tell them anything.
The Shakers danced in two groups --- on the one side of the room were lines
of women --- on the other side of the room were lines of the men. (The
Shakers were a celebate group of people.)
I danced in the morning
when the world was begun
I danced in the moon,
the stars and the sun
I danced down from Heaven
and I danced on Earth
At Bethlehem I had my birth
Dance, then, wherever you may be
I am the Lord of the Dance, said He
And I'll lead you all, wherever you may be
And I'll lead you all in the dance, said He
I danced for the scribe and the Pharisee
They would not dance;
they would not follow me
So I danced for the fisherman,
for James and John
They came with me
and the dance went on
Dance, then, wherever you may be
I am the Lord of the Dance, said He
And I'll lead you all, wherever you may be
And I'll lead you all in the dance, said He
I danced on the Sabbath
and I cured the lame
They holy people said it was a shame
So they whipped, they stripped,
they hung me high
And they left me on
the cross to die
Dance, then, wherever you may be
I am the Lord of the Dance, said He
And I'll lead you all, wherever you may be
And I'll lead you all in the dance, said He
I danced on a Friday,
when the sky turned black
Its hard to dance with the Devil on your back
Oh they buried my body,
they thought I'd gone
But I and the dance still go on
Dance, then, wherever you may be
I am the Lord of the Dance, said He
And I'll lead you all, wherever you may be
And I'll lead you all in the dance, said He
They cut me down, but I lept on high
I am the light that will never, never die
But I'll live in you if you'll live in Me
I am the Lord of the Dance, said he
Dance, then, wherever you may be
I am the Lord of the Dance, said He
And I'll lead you all, wherever you may be
And I'll lead you all in the dance, said He
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net> wrote
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> Those "joys"--like Webb's--require intensive psychoanalysis.
How come when Webb responses to my posts he complains about Weir and
when Weir responses to my posts she complains about Webb?
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net> wrote
"Elizabeth Weir" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote
> That is grotesque. Dodson was a pedophile and essentially
> a stalker of children. He ruined that child's life.
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Francis Bacon: Viscount St. Albans
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~paul/bacon/biographies/aubrey.html
<<[Francis Bacon] was a [pedophile].
His Ganimeds and Favourites tooke Bribes;>>
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Art Neuendorffer