Lucretius 9

[Alastor]

The further I go with this book, the more I realize how much of modern
science is held in its grasp. The atomistic physics of Democritus is
as statistical in its emphasis as thermodynamics and quantum physics.
Every phenomenon large enough to be detected by our senses comprises
an enormous sample of particles whose movements at the microscopic
level can be chaotic and apparently random, but at the macroscopic
level everything is ordered.

Lucretius provides a wonderful explanation of how the human body is
moved (IV,877-906). This is a bit like Frankenstein's monster taking
its first step, so vaste are the physical processes involved. First,
thoughts or images of movement must come to us. These images
(simulacra) are in the local environment in almost infinite number;
they randomly impact on the mind (animus), which picks one out
(Lucretius however doesn't provide a physical mechanism for the
selection process). The mind then moves the spirit (anima) that is
materially infused through our body, and this material spirit in turn
moves the body. Here is a wonderful couplet, which gives us the sense
of massive inertia being overcome as the body begins to move from the
small, initial impetus:

inde ea proporro corpus ferit, atque ita tota
paulatim moles protruditur atque movetur. (IV, 890-891)

[Paraphrase: the spirit (ea) then strikes the body and thus the whole
mass is propelled forward and moved.]

It's best read in context with the other lines that precede it, but
even in this isolated context you can see how the sound reinforces the
sense, particularly in that last line, scanned thus:

da.da. da.da. da.da. da.di.di. da.di,di. da.di.

The line begins with three spondees, then comes to the more tripping
dactyls, and finishes with the pedestrian trochee. This is a massive
machine getting under way, slowly and deliberately at first, then more
and more easily. Indeed, the paragraph goes on to explain the whole
setup in terms of a great ship and all its machinery ('machina'.) When
you understand the human body as a machine, in which our thoughts are
merely like cogs, then everything in the universe is a kind of machine
also.

Here's are some other examples of how Lucretius uncannily anticipates
key principles in modern science. Darwinian evolution, for example,
requires us to believe that any particular organ develops in a species
in so far as uses are found for it. Likewise, Lucretius emphasizes the
fact that an organ comes first and a use is found for it later:

...nil ideo quoniam natumst in corpore ut uti
possemus, sed quod natumst id procreat usum. (IV, 834-835)

[Paraphrase: because nothing in our body emerges to serve a use, but
that which emerges creates a use.]

Lucretius also anticipates psychologists in so far as they understand
forgetfulness to be a deliberate mechanism for preserving mental
health. Images (simulacra) flash into the mind (animus) in a random
order, creating disturbing pictures which we need to forget:

quod ne miremur sopor atque oblivia curant (IV, 822)
[Paraphrase: sleep and forgetfulness take care that we aren't
surprised].

Believe it or not, Lucretius also anticipated cinematography or moving
pictures. The simulacra appear to us as separate images, which we see
in a series, the series providing them with the illusion of movement
(770-776). He uses this theory to explain for instance ghosts. I can
imagine him demonstrating the theory with lantern slides, handing out
the popcorn while his mates marvelled at the realistic movements of
the dancing girl with the giant knockers.

In short, De Rerum Natura is a truly astonishing document, a brilliant
anticipation of modern science, couched in brilliant (if sometimes
unvarnished) verse. You're an idiot if you don't find time to read it
some day.

[Ed Cryer]

"Alastor" <ros...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:017bed85-e059-4f74...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

Woa! There's nothing about electromagnetism in it; no quantum leap; no
electrons, positrons and neutrons. In fact, if I recollect well, the
atoms have little hooks to hang together. And the "swerve" isn't based
on any empirical insight into the structure and behaviour of atoms
(unlike quantum theory which is corroborated in mathematical
formulation) but simply a reasonable guess to bypass a deterministic
universe.

You can't expect it to have greater relevance these days than in its
firm commitment to a scientific rationalistic basis for life; and the
poetry itself.

Ovid had high praise for it;
carmina sublimis tunc sunt peritura Lucreti,
exitio terras cum dabit una dies;
Tityrus et segetes Aeneiaque arma legentur,
Roma triumphati dum caput orbis erit;
(Ovid)

Sublimis Lucretius!
Lucretius' poem will only perish when the world perishes. But Vergil
will only be read while the Imperium Romanum lasts.

Ed

[Alastor]

That's a great quote from Ovid and it's wholly new to me. Thanks for
that. Ovid was a sensible chap.
And yes, I agree that the details of modern quantum theory can't be
deduced from the simple principles of Democritus. But those principles
contain the philosophy of modern science and much can be deduced from
them. For example, I haven't yet found in the poem any actual mention
of species evolving over time. But add these ingredients together:
1) The world is finite in time
2) Animals are mechanistic assemblies of particles
3) Organs create uses for themselves.
It's not hard to deduce evolution as a logical corollary from those
principles.
Similarly there are key concepts in quantum physics that can be
deduced from the atomistic theory of Lucretius.

[Alastor]

A version of the quantum leap has already been deduced by Lucretius.
The images that he calls 'simulacra' appear as discrete pictures,
whose rapid succession appears as movement. That's a quantized form of
light. He crowds these discrete simulacra into incredibly small time
intervals. Greeks had anticipiated the need for quantized time and
space. The paradoxes of Zeno serve to demonstrate that nothing exists
in isolation, and that all things therefore are illusions; but his
paradoxes could equally well be taken to prove that space and time
come in discrete intervals, requiring a quantum leap. For example, one
paradox assumes that space is infinitely divisible. If that is the
case, I can't go anywhere because first I have to traverse an infinite
number of subdivisions of space, which would take an infinite time.
But the paradox could easily be interpreted to mean that I have to
make a quantum leap across spaces that are too small to have
significance for a being of my size.