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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: HHH <hholli...@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Minimalist Runner:125250] Re: How hard is it to run correctly
in sneakers?
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" . . . and in the absence of knowledge of the "normal" range of variation
it's really difficult to identify an abnormality."
This is where I crack up as a former athlete and at times, I'm guilty as
charged. The vast majority of elite level athletes come from poor
backgrounds with no access or idea as to what is a normal range of anything
. . . they just do it . . . and do it over and over and over.
The funny thing is when an athlete comes along that does something
different and becomes the best, what is the "normal range" is re-defined by
the academics. Just think about the progression of the forehand in tennis,
from a flat Jimmy Connors forehand to unconventional Bjorn Born with his
western grip and massive topspin which ultimately redefined how to fit a
forehand in the modern game and how to use spin in the game of tennis.
The game changers have been training, diet, technology, etc. Running is
one of the most individual things out there and it gets proven over and
over especially when you watch the lead pack in a race and everyone looks
different (arms, legs, head, etc. . . . all slightly different). Wouldn't
you love to see Haile's face is someone said, "we need to fix that
pronation" :)
Harry
On Friday, October 26, 2012 9:46:19 AM UTC-6, Oblinkin wrote:
>
> I was thinking the same thing, highly individual, and in the absence of
> knowledge of the "normal" range of variation it's really difficult to
> identify an abnormality. I suspect body and leg mass also play a role.
>
> On Friday, October 26, 2012 11:25:10 AM UTC-4, Viking Runner wrote:
>>
>> I think this cross over gait is also greatly influenced by
>> genetics...depending how your hip bone is shaped and especially how
>> your hip socket is angled and how your femur is positioned, how your
>> muscles and tendons, ligaments are connected in that specific area...it is
>> a complex issue...I think that strengthening of the hip area is good
>> overall but some might just have hips that creates a slight cross over...
>> carl
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Tuck <tuc...@gmail.com>
>> *To:* huar...@googlegroups.com
>> *Sent:* Fri, October 26, 2012 11:13:11 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Minimalist Runner:125250] Re: How hard is it to run
>> correctly in sneakers?
>>
>> "From a physics standpoint..."
>>
>> Yeah, I feel like I'm running less smoothly with less cross-over... On
>> the treadmill, anyway. Don't really notice it out on the trail. But
>> there's clearly a trade-off here, because I wasn't going to get to 26.2
>> miles with the amount of chafing going on...
>>
>> "I also agree about pronation - much more likely with a more medial
>> landing, but is that bad?"
>>
>> For my weak leg, it's been a constant source of problems. Obviously,
>> pronation's perfectly normal, but there's got to be a point where it's "too
>> much". Certainly my weak leg was past the "too much" point....
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Oblinkin <oblin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was looking for fossil prints earlier, couldn't find any (on-line, not
>>> outside). Need to dig some more (online, not outside).
>>>
>>> From a physics standpoint, wouldn't a more lateral foot plant result in
>>> a greater lever arm for the gravitational vector passing through the COM,
>>> thus requiring more effort from the glute medius to stabilize the hip?
>>>
>>> I also agree about pronation - much more likely with a more medial
>>> landing, but is that bad?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 26, 2012 10:23:28 AM UTC-4, Tuck wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Dr. Pete: they've found some fossilized foot prints of primitive
>>>> man running: how did they do it?
>>>>
>>>> For me, I've found that running with less of a cross-over gait has
>>>> forced my weaker leg to bear more of the load, thus making it stronger. It
>>>> also helped A LOT with chafing. That said, I had specific issues that it
>>>> helped me resolve, on my goal to run a marathon. Pete's already run some
>>>> marathons, and doesn't seem to have these same issues... So would it
>>>> improve his speed, perhaps? I don't know.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Oblinkin <oblin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This from Peter Cavanagh in The Running Shoe Book in 1980 - one of the
>>>>> running biomechanics guys from the 70's-80's that I respect the most:
>>>>>
>>>>> "...most people place their left and right feet almost along a
>>>>> straight line when running at typical distance running speeds"
>>>>>
>>>>> Any video of experienced barefooters running from behind?
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's time to film a race from behind, need to start working on
>>>>> my disguise :)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "Minimalist Runner - Barefoot, Sandals, Shoes..." hosted by Barefoot
>>>>> Ted
>>>>>
>>>>> Membership Options: http://groups.google.com/**
>>>>> group/huaraches/subscribe<http://groups.google.com/group/huaraches/subscribe>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ______________________________**___
>>>> Tucker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> "Minimalist Runner - Barefoot, Sandals, Shoes..." hosted by Barefoot Ted
>>>
>>> Membership Options: http://groups.google.com/group/huaraches/subscribe
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _________________________________
>> Tucker
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Minimalist Runner - Barefoot, Sandals, Shoes..." hosted by Barefoot Ted
>>
>> Membership Options: http://groups.google.com/group/huaraches/subscribe
>>
>
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" . . . and in the absence of knowledge of the "normal" range of variation =
it's really difficult to identify an abnormality."<div><br></div><div>This =
is where I crack up as a former athlete and at times, I'm guilty as charged=
. The vast majority of elite level athletes come from poor background=
s with no access or idea as to what is a normal range of anything . . . the=
y just do it . . . and do it over and over and over. </div><div><br><=
/div><div>The funny thing is when an athlete comes along that does somethin=
g different and becomes the best, what is the "normal range" is re-defined =
by the academics. Just think about the progression of the forehand in=
tennis, from a flat Jimmy Connors forehand to unconventional Bjorn Born wi=
th his western grip and massive topspin which ultimately redefined how to f=
it a forehand in the modern game and how to use spin in the game of tennis.=
</div><div><br></div><div>The game changers have been training, diet, techn=
ology, etc. Running is one of the most individual things out there an=
d it gets proven over and over especially when you watch the lead pack in a=
race and everyone looks different (arms, legs, head, etc. . . . all slight=
ly different). Wouldn't you love to see Haile's face is someone said,=
"we need to fix that pronation" :)</div><div><br></div><div>Harry</div><di=
v><br><br>On Friday, October 26, 2012 9:46:19 AM UTC-6, Oblinkin wrote:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">I was thinking the same thing, hig=
hly individual, and in the absence of knowledge of the "normal" range of va=
riation it's really difficult to identify an abnormality. I suspect body an=
d leg mass also play a role.<br><br>On Friday, October 26, 2012 11:25:10 AM=
UTC-4, Viking Runner wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div></d=
iv>
<div>I think this cross over gait is also greatly influenced by g=
enetics...depending how your hip bone is shaped and especially how your&nbs=
p;hip socket is angled and how your femur is positioned, how your musc=
les and tendons, ligaments are connected in that specific area...it is a co=
mplex issue...I think that strengthening of the hip area is good overa=
ll but some might just have hips that creates a slight cross over...<br></d=
iv>
<div>carl</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:10pt"><br>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12=
pt"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">
<hr size=3D"1">
<b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Tuck <<a>tuc...@gma=
il.com</a>><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> <a>hua=
r...@googlegroups.com</a><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</spa=
n></b> Fri, October 26, 2012 11:13:11 AM<br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:b=
old">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Minimalist Runner:125250] Re: How hard is it =
to run correctly in sneakers?<br></font><br>
<div>"From a physics standpoint..."</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Yeah, I feel like I'm running less smoothly with less cross-over... On=
the treadmill, anyway. Don't really notice it out on the trail. =
; But there's clearly a trade-off here, because I wasn't going to get to 26=
.2 miles with the amount of chafing going on...<br><br>"I also agree about =
pronation - much more likely with a more medial landing, but is that bad?"<=
/div>
<div> </div>
<div>For my weak leg, it's been a constant source of problems. Obviou=
sly, pronation's perfectly normal, but there's got to be a point where it's=
"too much". Certainly my weak leg was past the "too much" point....&=
nbsp; </div>
<div> </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Oblinkin <span=
dir=3D"ltr"><<a rel=3D"nofollow">oblin...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrot=
e:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">I was looking for fossil =
prints earlier, couldn't find any (on-line, not outside). Need to dig some =
more (online, not outside).=20
<div><br></div>
<div>From a physics standpoint, wouldn't a more lateral foot plant result i=
n a greater lever arm for the gravitational vector passing through the COM,=
thus requiring more effort from the glute medius to stabilize the hip?</di=
v>
<div><br></div>
<div>I also agree about pronation - much more likely with a more medial lan=
ding, but is that bad?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div><br><br>On Friday, October 26, 2012 10:23:28 AM UTC-4, Tuck wrote:</di=
v>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>Hey Dr. Pete: they've found some fossilized foot prints of primitive m=
an running: how did they do it?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>For me, I've found that running with less of a cross-over gait has for=
ced my weaker leg to bear more of the load, thus making it stronger. =
It also helped A LOT with chafing. That said, I had specific issues t=
hat it helped me resolve, on my goal to run a marathon. Pete's alread=
y run some marathons, and doesn't seem to have these same issues... So woul=
d it improve his speed, perhaps? I don't know.<br><br></div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Oblinkin <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a rel=3D"nofollow">oblin...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote=
:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">This from Peter Cavanagh =
in The Running Shoe Book in 1980 - one of the running biomechanics guys fro=
m the 70's-80's that I respect the most:=20
<div><br></div>
<div>"...most people place their left and right feet almost along a straigh=
t line when running at typical distance running speeds"<br><br></div>
<div>Any video of experienced barefooters running from behind? </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Maybe it's time to film a race from behind, need to start working on m=
y disguise :)</div>
<div>
<div>
<p></p>-- <br>"Minimalist Runner - Barefoot, Sandals, Shoes..." hosted by B=
arefoot Ted<br> <br>Membership Options: <a href=3D"http://groups.googl=
e.com/group/huaraches/subscribe" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://=
groups.google.com/<u></u>group<wbr>/huaraches/subscribe</a><br></div></div>=
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>
<div>______________________________<u></u><wbr>___<br>Tucker</div>
<div> </div><br></div></blockquote></div>
<div>
<div>
<p></p>-- <br>"Minimalist Runner - Barefoot, Sandals, Shoes..." hosted by B=
arefoot Ted<br> <br>Membership Options: <a href=3D"http://groups.googl=
e.com/group/huaraches/subscribe" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://=
groups.google.com/<wbr>group/huaraches/subscribe</a><br></div></div></block=
quote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>
<div>______________________________<wbr>___<br>Tucker</div>
<div> </div><br>
<p></p>-- <br>"Minimalist Runner - Barefoot, Sandals, Shoes..." hosted by B=
arefoot Ted<br> <br>Membership Options: <a href=3D"http://groups.googl=
e.com/group/huaraches/subscribe" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://=
groups.google.com/<wbr>group/huaraches/subscribe</a><br></div></div></div><=
/div></blockquote></blockquote></div>
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Message from discussion How hard is it to run correctly in sneakers?
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