Sandals, Shoes" <huaraches@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 20:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John (SoLa)" <eile...@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Minimalist Runner:115320] Re: Knowing when your body is
 bullshitting you
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Great post, Tim.  Very well put.

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:57:10 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Deacon Patrick <lamomac.com<lamontg...@mac.com>> 
> wrote: 
> > John, the underlying presumption in this thread's title is that the body 
> can 
> > not be trusted because it deceives and lies. I am highly critical of 
> that 
> > presupposition because the body is not capable of such. 
>
> Reference Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more treacherous than anything 
> else and is desperate. Who can know it?" 
>
> Yes.  The body can lie to you.  The central governor theory say this 
> also.  Your brain says to conserve energy because you don't have 
> enough...but you really do.  If your brain is saying you don't have 
> enough when you do have enough, that's a lie, even if in the interest 
> of self-preservation. 
>
> Another issue with this is recognizing what the body is saying.  It 
> may be saying it cannot or it may be saying it is uncomfortable.  If 
> we are used to being a couch potato and are trying to change, the 
> latter feedback is to be expected.  But, how do we distinguish between 
> the two? 
>
> > The question within this post absolutely is whether we should learn to 
> > listen to our bodies. If our clay lies and deceives then why make the 
> effort 
> > to listen at all? Running by feel is not possible, as  "feel" can't be 
> > trusted. 
>
> I admire the goal of running by feel and which to eventually achieve 
> that myself.  I view feel as a combination of data plus 
> interpretation.  Whether we can trust the feel lies in our ability to 
> interpret the data.  If your body is providing some data (some 
> sensation in a certain area), we need to learn what that data means in 
> terms of feel.  Once we can trust our interpretation, we can trust the 
> feel.  How do we learn to trust feel?  We can only listen for the 
> data, guess at an interpretation, act on it, and listen for further 
> feedback, confirmation of whether we guessed correctly or not.  With 
> practice, we should be able to improve on the process and guess more 
> accurately more often.  I hope so anyway. 
>
> As for the use of tech/gadgets, depending on how we use it, it can be 
> a positive or a negative influence on our learning to run by feel.  We 
> can use it either to confirm our interpretive guesses (a positive) or 
> as a replacement for the data from our body (a negative).  Here are a 
> couple of example usages:  1) program a workout into the gadget and 
> stick to the workout.  2) enable record mode and put the gadget in a 
> pocket, only receiving tech feedback after the run.  In the first 
> case, we could ignore feedback from the body, further dampening our 
> ability to listen.  In the second case, we may be able to look a the 
> data post-run for additional confirmation as to whether we were 
> guessing correctly or not.  There could also be a middle ground.  If 
> we wear the gadget during the run, we could glance at it for more 
> immediate confirmation of our guesses.  But, there is also the risk 
> that the data received from the gadget at that moment could be given 
> more credence than what our body is saying.  How we handle that 
> situation can either increase or decrease or ability to listen to our 
> body. 
>
> Tim 
>

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Great post, Tim. &nbsp;Very well put.<br><br>On Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:57:10 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Deacon Patrick &lt;<a href="mailto:lamontg...@mac.com" target="_blank">lamomac.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; John, the underlying presumption in this thread's title is that the body can
<br>&gt; not be trusted because it deceives and lies. I am highly critical of that
<br>&gt; presupposition because the body is not capable of such.
<br>
<br>Reference Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more treacherous than anything
<br>else and is desperate. Who can know it?"
<br>
<br>Yes. &nbsp;The body can lie to you. &nbsp;The central governor theory say this
<br>also. &nbsp;Your brain says to conserve energy because you don't have
<br>enough...but you really do. &nbsp;If your brain is saying you don't have
<br>enough when you do have enough, that's a lie, even if in the interest
<br>of self-preservation.
<br>
<br>Another issue with this is recognizing what the body is saying. &nbsp;It
<br>may be saying it cannot or it may be saying it is uncomfortable. &nbsp;If
<br>we are used to being a couch potato and are trying to change, the
<br>latter feedback is to be expected. &nbsp;But, how do we distinguish between
<br>the two?
<br>
<br>&gt; The question within this post absolutely is whether we should learn to
<br>&gt; listen to our bodies. If our clay lies and deceives then why make the effort
<br>&gt; to listen at all? Running by feel is not possible, as &nbsp;"feel" can't be
<br>&gt; trusted.
<br>
<br>I admire the goal of running by feel and which to eventually achieve
<br>that myself. &nbsp;I view feel as a combination of data plus
<br>interpretation. &nbsp;Whether we can trust the feel lies in our ability to
<br>interpret the data. &nbsp;If your body is providing some data (some
<br>sensation in a certain area), we need to learn what that data means in
<br>terms of feel. &nbsp;Once we can trust our interpretation, we can trust the
<br>feel. &nbsp;How do we learn to trust feel? &nbsp;We can only listen for the
<br>data, guess at an interpretation, act on it, and listen for further
<br>feedback, confirmation of whether we guessed correctly or not. &nbsp;With
<br>practice, we should be able to improve on the process and guess more
<br>accurately more often. &nbsp;I hope so anyway.
<br>
<br>As for the use of tech/gadgets, depending on how we use it, it can be
<br>a positive or a negative influence on our learning to run by feel. &nbsp;We
<br>can use it either to confirm our interpretive guesses (a positive) or
<br>as a replacement for the data from our body (a negative). &nbsp;Here are a
<br>couple of example usages: &nbsp;1) program a workout into the gadget and
<br>stick to the workout. &nbsp;2) enable record mode and put the gadget in a
<br>pocket, only receiving tech feedback after the run. &nbsp;In the first
<br>case, we could ignore feedback from the body, further dampening our
<br>ability to listen. &nbsp;In the second case, we may be able to look a the
<br>data post-run for additional confirmation as to whether we were
<br>guessing correctly or not. &nbsp;There could also be a middle ground. &nbsp;If
<br>we wear the gadget during the run, we could glance at it for more
<br>immediate confirmation of our guesses. &nbsp;But, there is also the risk
<br>that the data received from the gadget at that moment could be given
<br>more credence than what our body is saying. &nbsp;How we handle that
<br>situation can either increase or decrease or ability to listen to our
<br>body.
<br>
<br>Tim
<br></blockquote>
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