Fly spaces

[Ray Palasz]

I have a chance to help design a new theatre space at our school pending voter approval.  One of the things that was asked about is if we preferred a half-fly or full fly space.  Anyone have a half-fly and can offer insight about it? 

 

Also, any thoughts on what I should ask for in terms of facilities?  Things maybe you would do if you could?  The space is going to be approximately 1000 seats.

 

Thanks for the help!

Ray

[Kaise...@aol.com]

We have a 2/3 fly (8' can go out, but it's 12' from the bottom of the teasers to the floor.  I don't recommend it.  We are constantly having to work around that limitation.  We, too, are in the process of building a new high school and I was fortunate enough to be asked in on some of the initial design meetings.  We all insisted on a full fly.  I was also asking for automated rigging, but I don't think that will happen.  But we are getting the fly.
Good luck,
MeLinda



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[Ken Zinkl]

If you don't want to fly scenery or drops out and have them disappear a half fly will work. It you want scenery to disappear go for full fly. You will be much happier.

Ken

Kenneth Zinkl
Auditorium Manager
Fort Zumwalt East High School
600 First Executive Ave.
St. Peters, MO 63376
636-477-2400 ext. 2490
Fax: 636-926-3345


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>>> "Ray Palasz" <ray.p...@gmail.com> 4/2/2009 6:53 PM >>>

[Drake, Brian C]

What are your limitations in terms of budget?  You definitely want a full fly system.  If your system will also be used for band/choir/orchestra concerts and they are going to install a music shell as part of your system, you will want to make sure that your soft goods will be out of the way and safe as the towers are moved around.  I’ve had to replace several curtains in theatres that did not have full fly height and caught their curtains with the towers creating wonderful, large corner tears in the drapes.  How many line sets are you asking for and how deep is your space going to be?  There a lots of things to consider in the design process in terms of drop boxes vs. wired electrics, the length of the battens in your space (mine were design too short and I have to give up 10’ of stage space in order to mask offstage).  The Vortek system is a  wonderful thing, but you may be better served to spend your money elsewhere if you can get more amenities.  It really all depends on how your space will ultimately be used. I’d be happy to discuss any matter with you in greater detail if you would like.

 

Brian Drake

Coordinator, Performing Arts Centers

Theatrical Rigging Installer

Waterford School District

[Cobalt Studios]

Be sure you have ready access to paint storage and clean-up facilities, and GOOD WORKLIGHTS.

 You will be glad you did.

Thank you,

Rachel Keebler, Owner and Director

Cobalt Studios, Inc.

POB 79

White Lake, NY 12786

845-583-7025

ma...@cobaltstudios.net

www.cobaltstudios.net

 

[mark johnson]

Full fly is a must. It doesn't cost so much extra that the savings are worth the limitations. Especially if you are expected to be a state of the art modern facility. I have full fly and was very lucky. Most schools build in the 70's in our don't have a fly tower. Vortex is great, but we run a good old fashion arbor system and do just fine. One this I would recommend is that you capture every square inch of space possible. The extra room under stairs can be great for sound equipment, and long skinny rooms work just fine for costumes. The facility needs to be more than just what the audience sees. Take care of your performers and students too!


--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Ray Palasz <ray.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Michael Heinicke]

I agree with others: get as much height as you can. Unfortunately it isn't "just a little more to go higher" as someone mentioned previously. I believe most building codes require some sort of fire or deluge curtain over a certain height. Those can get expensive REAL quick. In my space we are just under the height requirement so we don't have a fire curtain. This was done on purpose to cut costs, but I would love another 5' of fly travel. To fly drops, I have to cheat everything in and use shorter drops so that they don't hang past the borders when flown out.
Other things to ask for:
-As much storage space as possible
-A trap room (also good for storage)
-Plenty of shop space
-Plenty of electrical circuits in the shop. Not just outlets, but independent circuits (who thought two 20A circuits is enough for a shop???)
-At least one 208v or 240v circuit in the shop
-Room in the circuit panels to expand later
-Sink and space to clean paint equipment. No, a mop sink is not acceptable for this...
-If the space will have separate water heaters in different areas, try for gas tankless units. Unlimited hot water for those big paint clean up jobs...
-If you don't have budget for all motorized fly system, try to get the electrics motorized. It saves a lot of problems in a high school situation.

If you have any other questions, I can give lots of opinions off list. I opened a new theater a year and a half ago and still have a long list of projects to improve the space.

Mike Heinicke

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Ray Palasz <ray.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ray Palasz <ray.p...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [hstech] Fly spaces
> To: dramateac...@yahoogroups.com, hst...@googlegroups.com

[jalanjalankt]

I don't have a lot of experience in this but I liked the concept of having a back stage area with a garage door to a loading dock.  One school I saw had a hallway between back stage and a prop storage room so they had 3 garage doors (2 with access to the hallway so they were across from each other and one from the storage room to the loading dock..

 

 

---

From: hst...@googlegroups.com [mailto:hst...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cobalt Studios
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:11 PM
To: hst...@googlegroups.com; dramateac...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hstech] Re: Fly spaces

[Alexander, David]

Sounds like Mike H & I are in the same boat. I also just opened a new
theatre... and that was after opening another new theatre 15 years
ago... whenever asked about what I would do differently, I always say,
"Get the end user (i.e. Technical Director, Production Manager, etc.) in
place BEFORE you finalize the plans for the space." Here's more of the
ideas Mike probably has... I'll list a bit more here:

- Full fly Tower; ditto to all the previous notes; the building's
structural capability should be rated for the max capacity of the
rigging AND all its needed counterweight, but it should also be able to
spot-rig chain motors and other point loads on a grid; check Jay O.
Glerum's rigging handbook for specifics of how to setup your type of
system ... our house is fully motorized with an Italian system; but we
only have 14 moving line-sets - all of the legs and most of the borders
are dead-hung to the 5 structural beams - no grid (lots of walking on
I-beams for me - fall-arrested, of course); but I digress... motors can
be great, but nothing beats teaching the techniques that have been the
hallmark of stage rigging for decades, centuries, millennia (well, maybe
not millennia)... a good counterweight system!

- Shop Space - It doesn't have to be a separate room (although that is
best), just be sure to include space to setup a table- and/or radial-arm
saw (both would be preferred), tool storage, lumber storage area; and a
good paint sink is a definite "must-have"... and, yes a "Good" paint/
slop sink CAN double as a mop sink - not the opposite;

- Dressing rooms - wasn't included in our plans for some unknown reason,
but I've seen this on all too many theatres, and almost impossible to
add later... make sure there are at least 2 large dressing rooms for
splitting males/ females and, if at all possible, a mid-sized one for
those times when you need either a "star" Dressing Room or have only a
few token boys (e.g. a dance concert); these rooms can double as
costume-shop/ storage space when off-line... but only if absolutely
needed;
A green room w/lockers for the cast's personal belongings is a big plus.

- Storage Space - Mentioned before, but this is crucial to operating a
successful program... small closets are great for props, costumes, and
smaller lighting & audio gear, but don't forget long term storage of
stock scenic units like platforms, flats, & drops (unless you plan to
build/ rent all new sets every production), choral and orchestra risers,
music stands & chairs, & other items for the music program; to say
nothing of all the tables, chairs, and any portable audience seating you
may have; it all takes space... don't forget the use of empty vertical
space... storage mezzanines are a great way to make use of otherwise
unused (air)space;

- Power - a 200 amp company disconnect would be nice; another with 400
amp would be even better... never know when you need to power a tour
bus, broadcast truck, or a portable lighting or truss rig; ditto what
Mike says about electric circuits... I had to ask for courtesy outlets
on stage, and while they were at it, I had them tie in 2 circuits to the
audio panel (w/ isolated ground) for powering backline audio gear
(guitar amp, keyboards, monitor consoles, etc.)...

Wow, wouldn't it be nice if the architects & accountants could work this
into their plans.
Hope this helps.

David Alexander
Tecnical Director/ Facility Manager
Oaks Christian School - Bedrosian Pavilion
Westlake Village, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: hst...@googlegroups.com [mailto:hst...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Heinicke
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:04 PM
To: hst...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [hstech] Re: Fly spaces

[Steven Z]

A few additional things...

Our school opened in August, 2004. I wasn't part of the planning (was
hired too late) but here are a few things that somehow were forgotten/
messed up putting together our theater:

1) Windows in the sound booth couldn't be opened -- took nearly four
years for them to install sliders.
2) No sink in the workshop. Nearest sink is nearly 100 feet (and two
rooms) away
3) Horrible work lights onstage - honestly cannot rehearse with just
the works
4) Electric winches for 3 electrics and band shell, but everything
else is dead hung. We use the band shell to fly small, lightweight
items but cannot fly a backdrop
5) Upstage traveler is the last pipe - can't hang a cyc or backdrop
behind it (also, district wouldn't buy us a cyc, but they bought cyc
lights)
6) Watch for equipment that's ordered - they ordered a clear com
system and headphones, but didn't buy the belt packs; instead of a
live sound mixing board, they bought a studio board
7) Mic placement - microphones were hung from the ceiling, but they're
too high up to pick up anything useful. There's also no cat above the
stage so that there's no way to adjust them
8) The floor of the stage has been a constant battle between the
theater people on-campus and the people who expect the theater to be
an 'auditorium' -- instead of installing standard ply (or similar
material) for the floor, they installed an expensive hardwood floor,
expecting it to be left unpainted! Eventually, the floor from the
proscenium up was painted black, but a small section in front of the
grand was left clear so it would look nice for assemblies
9) Don't let someone from the district approve any part of the final
install without you being there -- our sound system install was
approved by a district person and they didn't even listen to it. It
took a year to finally get somebody in to fix it.

Hope this helps..
Steven Zaretsky
Harmony, FL