"control shot"

[Marc Adler]

This is kind of gruesome, so if you're about to eat lunch, etc., you might not want to read it. (The concept is gruesome -- there's no gory details or anything below.)

A friend of mine, in a blog post, used コントロールショット as a translation of the term "control shot" which he had seen in US newspaper articles about the Russian mafia. "Control shot" is a literal translation from Russian ("kontrol'nyj vystrel"), meaning a gunshot (generally to the head) made _after_ the victim has been shot down, in order to make absolutely sure the person is dead. I told my friend that in English a "control shot" sounds like something participants in a clinical trial might receive. Naturally, he asked me what we call it in English, but I couldn't come up with anything good. A "finishing shot" was the closest I could I get, but that doesn't sound right. I know I've seen it in the movies in contexts unrelated to the Russian mafia--soldiers walking around a body-strewn battlefield, putting bullets in the heads of the bodies and stipping them of their weapons, that kind of thing. So we've got the concept in English, but is there a word for it? I think kontrol'nyj vystrel is Russian military jargon. Is there some kind of corresponding English jargon?

Thanks,
Marc Adler

[Terry Gallagher]

"Gangland-style shooting" and "coup de grace" are similar concepts but not quite as narrow as what you are describing.

Hope helps,
Terry Gallagher
Massachusetts

[Mika Jarmusz]

2008/7/25 Marc Adler <marc....@gmail.com>:

 

meaning a gunshot (generally to the head) made _after_ the victim has been shot down, in order to make absolutely sure the person is dead.<snip>Naturally, he asked me what we call it in English, but I couldn't come up with anything good. A "finishing shot" was the closest I could I get, but that doesn't sound right.

英語はわかりませんが、とどめの一撃ではありませんので、
おまけの一撃みたいですね。いささか語彙が乏しいですが。

--
Mika Jarmusz 清水美香
English to Japanese Translator
http://inJapanese.us

[Mark Spahn]

I wonder whether "killshot" covers this concept of a "make sure he's dead" gunshot to the head.

A quick Google search hints that "killshot" comes from the title of a crime novel.  I do not know whether this is an actual word in gangland argot, or an invention of the author, Elmore Leonard.

-- Mark Spahn  (West Seneca, NY)

[Dale Ponte]

Googling from "mobspeak" or "mafia jargon/argot" might turn something
up.

~
D

[Wayne Root]

"Shot execution style" is what immediately comes to mind and is what
the US news media uses.

[Alan Siegrist]

Wayne Root writes:

> "Shot execution style" is what immediately comes to mind and is what
> the US news media uses.

Well, since this is a rather gruesome concept we are discussing, let me ask
the question I would otherwise hesitate to ask.

What exactly does it mean to be shot "execution style"?

Way back when capital punishment (execution) was sometimes done by gun, they
had firing squads to do the dirty work. Presumably this new phrase of
"execution style" shooting as we hear in the news is not the same thing.

Regards,

Alan Siegrist @ Do I really want to know?
Orinda, CA, USA

[David J. Littleboy]

From: "Alan Siegrist" <AlanFS...@Comcast.net>

> Wayne Root writes:
>
>> "Shot execution style" is what immediately comes to mind and is what
>> the US news media uses.
>
> Well, since this is a rather gruesome concept we are discussing, let me
> ask
> the question I would otherwise hesitate to ask.
>
> What exactly does it mean to be shot "execution style"?
>
> Way back when capital punishment (execution) was sometimes done by gun,
> they
> had firing squads to do the dirty work. Presumably this new phrase of
> "execution style" shooting as we hear in the news is not the same thing.

No. It's this style. Handgun, close up, defensless victim. As demonstrated
by one of our allies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nguyen.jpg

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

[Jeremiah Bourque]

To Marc Adler:

Whether helpful or not, here's some info: a "double tap to the head" is
shooting the head twice to make sure the guy's dead, though that refers
to the shots as a pair, not to the second shot in isolation. Also, the
general practice would be, in militarist parlance, 'confirming the
kill'. I don't have anything better than that at present.

Jeremiah Bourque

[William Sakovich]

[[No. It's this style. Handgun, close up, defensless victim. As demonstrated

by one of our allies.]]

Except he wasn't a victim and he wasn't defenseless. And the shooter was a
patriot. Eddie Adams, the photographer, won a Pulitzer Prize for that photo
and regretted it for the rest of his life.

Adams wrote in Time Magazine:

"The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general (General Loan) with
my camera. Still photographs are the most powerful weapon in the world.
People believe them, but photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They
are only half-truths. What the photograph didn't say was, 'What would you do
if you were the general at that time and place on that hot day, and you
caught the so-called bad guy after he blew away one, two or three American
soldiers?'"

Not only did he "blow away" American soldiers, he also blew away Vietnamese
soldiers during the Tet offensive. Tet was supposed to be a mutually
agreed-upon truce, but was broken by the forces of the "defenseless victim".

Adams was later assigned by AP to hang out with the general and found out
that he was considered a hero by the non Vietcong Vietnamese, particularly
for his work to build hospitals.

He later apologized to General Loan several times, but the man told him to
forget about it and let it go. When the general died, the photographer
Adams sent flowers and a note that read:

"I'm sorry. There are tears in my eyes."

One of the important parts of a translator's job is the willingness to do
serious research and look beyond the superficial.

If someone on this list, which is for discussions about translation with
other professionals, wishes to make a snarky, meta-ironical political point,
they could do us all a favor and try some basic research first.

- BS

[Marc Adler]

"Confirming the kill" is close. I think that's what the original Russian "kontrol'nyj" intends. Of course a "confirmation shot" sounds like a Catholic vaccination, so it can't very well be used, but something with "confirming" might sound plausible. Either way, after seeing all the replies, I guess we don't have a set phrase in English (or Japanese) for this.

Thanks for all the ideas!

Marc

[Fred Uleman]

Re Marc's:

Either way, after seeing all the replies, I guess we don't have a set phrase in English (or Japanese) for this.

 

Since the original post seemed to be asking about Japanese, I wonder if someone (Mika?) could tell me what is wrong with とどめの一撃. (Also, not being into these things, I wonder if the 一撃 here is not pronounced いっぱつ.)

--
Fred Uleman

[mt_scratch]

私は、「とどめの一発」でいいと思いますね。
「とどめ」には「念のため」の意味が含まれていると思います。
まあ、「死んでいるのが分かっていながら撃つ」だと少し違ってきますが、
「確実に死んでいるのが分からないから撃つ」のだと思うので、
「とどめの一発」でいいと思います。

また、「一撃」は「いっぱつ」とは読まないと思いますし、銃よりも、刀／ナイフ
／棒／げんこつなどで行う時に使用することが多いと思います。

大辞林：
〔動詞 「とどめる」 の連用形から〕
人を殺すとき，最後にのどを刺したり急所を突いたりして息の根を止めること。
「－の一撃を加える」

桜内実
M. Sakurauchi

[Mika Jarmusz]

to make absolutely sure the person " is" なので、
とどめとは違うように思ったのですが、
まだ"isn't" だったらそれがとどめになってしまいますね．．．。
一撃よりも「一発」の方がよかったですね。

[Richard Thieme]

----- Original Message -----
送信者 : "Marc Adler" <marc....@gmail.com>
宛先 : <hon...@googlegroups.com>
送信日時 : 2008年7月26日 13:53
件名 : Re: "control shot"

I think coup de grace is pretty close.

For hunting I found this

On dangerous game, always fire the _insurance shot_ and approach carefully
from the rear.

http://www.huntingmag.com/big_game/dirty_dozen/index1.html

Regards,

Richard Thieme

[Marc Adler]

2008/7/26 Fred Uleman <ful...@gmail.com>

 

Since the original post seemed to be asking about Japanese, I wonder if someone (Mika?) could tell me what is wrong with とどめの一撃. (Also, not being into these things, I wonder if the 一撃 here is not pronounced いっぱつ.)

I think とどめの一撃（いちげき） is a good phrase, and is glossed as "coup de grace," another term which has come up in this thread. The only problem I have with "coup de grace" is that it's used metaphorically so often in a positive sense that it wouldn't sound right to say that "the thugs administered a coup de grace to the body lying in the stairwell" or whatever.

I really like "insurance shot" which Richard found in a hunting context.

Marc Adler

[Marc Adler]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, William Sakovich <sako...@gol.com> wrote:

If someone on this list, which is for discussions about translation with
other professionals, wishes to make a snarky, meta-ironical political point,
they could do us all a favor and try some basic research first.

In light of the rest of this off-topic, politcally myopic, hackneyed ("meta-ironical"? really?) post, this has to be the most hypocritical thing I've ever read on Honyaku.

Marc Adler

[minoru]

If "control shot" is a literal translation, which not all people may
understand until they realize what the soldiers are doing, then
コントロールショットserves the same purpose, so that it is fine
as it is. I would assume the Russian "kontrol'nyj vystrel" os mpt
readily understandable to average Russian citizens until they
see the film.

To translate it to a more understandable word such as とどめの
一発　as someone is suggesting kills the original effect of
brutality hidden in the expression and makes it a boring, bland
statement.

Minoru Mochizuki