Request for quote J>E translation

[Jun Watanabe]

I represent a translation agency in Tokyo. We are currently looking to
expand our base of freelance translators (J>E), in particular those who meet
the following requirements:
- Able to work under tight deadlines - ideally able to translate around
6,000 Japanese characters per day (=7 working hours or so)
- Have an excellent ability to understand written Japanese
- have experience in marketing, PR, business translation, sports matter etc.
- Are willing to work for 6-9 yen per Japanese character (source-based
payment)
- Preferably reside in Japan; however we are also interested in overseas
candidates so we can make use of the time difference for jobs with tight
deadlines.

We are also very interested in candidates who can accept overnight
assignments. Please let us know if you are able to or not.
Interested candidates should forward their resumes to Jun Watanabe at
jun-wa...@abece.co.jp. Upon inspection, we will contact you to organise
registration. Please note that email communication in Japanese is preferred.

Thank you.

Jun Watanabe
**********************************************
株式会社アーベーセー
〒103-0007　
東京都中央区日本橋浜町2-25-2　チャンピオンタワー9階
TEL:+81-3-5645-3405
FAX:+81-3-5645-3406
e-mail: jun-wa...@abece.co.jp
WEB: http://www.abece.co.jp
**********************************************

[Richard Thieme]

That was interesting, but I thought Honyaku was set not to allow
attachments.

Regards,

Richard Thieme

----- Original Message -----
送信者 : "David Young" <young...@vodafone.net.nz>
宛先 : <hon...@googlegroups.com>
送信日時 : 2009年4月16日 17:34
件名 : RE: Request for quote J>E translation

> Jun
>
> I write in response to your following request for J>E translators posted
> on
> honyaku.
>
> I have considerable experience in Japanese > English translation.
>

(snip)

[Peter Durfee]

On 09/04/16 18:09, "Richard Thieme" <rdth...@gol.com> wrote:

> That was interesting, but I thought Honyaku was set not to allow
> attachments.

It has allowed attachments ever since we moved it to Google Groups, where
there is no setting to strip them out.

--
Peter Durfee
du...@gol.com
Tokyo

[Christopher Girsch]

And I gather I am not receiving all posts to Honyaku either. I only received
David Young's and this one (Peter's) with regard to that thread. I have
noted missing
posts before.

Is this happening to others as well?

Chris Girsch

[Wataru Tenga]

Richard Thieme wrote...

RT> That was interesting, but I thought Honyaku was set not to allow
RT> attachments.

Most interesting to me is that someone with "considerable experience in
Japanese to English translation" is willing to work for 6 to 9 yen per
source character, in Tokyo.

--
Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

[David J. Littleboy]

From: "Wataru Tenga" <wte...@gmail.com>

>>>>>>>>
Most interesting to me is that someone with "considerable experience in
Japanese to English translation" is willing to work for 6 to 9 yen per
source character, in Tokyo.
<<<<<<<<

From his email provider, I'd guess David's not in Tokyo.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

[Manako Ihaya]

What's even more interesting is that I received the same email written
in Japanese but stating a rate of 6 to 8 yen per Japanese source
character for J-E translation. I guess they offer an even lower rate
for NJS.

Manako Ihaya (I don't advertise myself as NJS, but my name screams
NJS, I guess)

Sent from my iPhone (949) 636-1213

[Peter Durfee]

On 2009/04/16, at 20:39, David J. Littleboy wrote:

> From his email provider, I'd guess David's not in Tokyo.

His resume makes it very clear. (What, you didn't read it too? <g>)

--
Peter Durfee
du...@gol.com

[Shinya Suzuki]

Christopher Girsch wrote:

> And I gather I am not receiving all posts to Honyaku either. I only received
> David Young's and this one (Peter's) with regard to that thread.

Same for my email client Becky!. I checked both the Honyaku webpage
and my provider's (Nifty) web-mailbox, and found out that those posts
(by Jun Watanabe, Richard Thieme and David J. Littleboy) missing in
the Becky! inbox were in the Nifty 迷惑メール folder. So evidently Nifty's
spam filter has been misbehaving for some time (several weeks in my
case?). I applied the 迷惑メール解除 procedure to each of these three
mail addresses. Are there less tedious remedies for this problem?

Yes, I noticed your provider is also Nifty.

Shinya Suzuki

[David J. Littleboy]

From: "Peter Durfee" <du...@gol.com>

> On 2009/04/16, at 20:39, David J. Littleboy wrote:
>
>> From his email provider, I'd guess David's not in Tokyo.
>
> His resume makes it very clear. (What, you didn't read it too? <g>)

Hey, I had to look really hard to find another source for that information
to make it look as though I wasn't a snoop. And in this case, I even had to
do a bit of work to snoop, since the resume file had a non-obvious name<g>.

[S Zaveloff]

Shinya Suzuki wrote:

>
> Same for my email client Becky!. I checked both the Honyaku webpage
> and my provider's (Nifty) web-mailbox, and found out that those posts
> (by Jun Watanabe, Richard Thieme and David J. Littleboy) missing in
> the Becky! inbox were in the Nifty 迷惑メール folder. So evidently Nifty's
> spam filter has been misbehaving for some time (several weeks in my
> case?). I applied the 迷惑メール解除 procedure to each of these three
> mail addresses. Are there less tedious remedies for this problem?

I had a similar problem when I switched ISPs from Earthlink to ATT.
All of a sudden, my wife stopped getting most of her mail. I checked
the ATT spam filter and discovered that it had "decided" that any
message with a Japanese subject line was spam! The simplest solution
was to turn off the ISPs spam filter and let my e-mail client
(Thunderbird) do the filtering. That way everything is on my computer
and I can easily check it.

HTHAL

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven H. Zaveloff gua...@gmail.com
P.O. Box 200203 Tel: (512)219-7142
Austin, Texas 78720-0203 Fax: (512)233-2770
http://members.capmac.org/~stevenzaveloff/

Not by harming life does one become noble.
One is termed noble for being gentle to all living things.
-Dhammapada

[Laurie Berman]

I don't know if anyone else has ever experienced this, but on two
separate occasions Comcast was not merely filtering but out-and-out
rejecting emails a client in Japan was sending me (a different client
on each occasion). The first time the problem was corrected after a
week or so. The second time, it was taking considerably longer (and
since I was already fed up with Comcast's cable rate increases, I
decided it was time to switch).

[Tom Donahue]

Peter Durfee writes:

> His resume makes it very clear. (What, you didn't read it too? <g>)

If your neighbor's business mail arrived by mistake in your mailbox,
would you open it and read that too?

I wouldn't. Much less rush online to make bitchy comments about
it. (Yes Wateru, that's about you. And you too, Richard.)

--
Tom Donahue

[Wataru Tenga]

Tom Donahue wrote...

TD> If your neighbor's business mail arrived by mistake in your mailbox,
TD> would you open it and read that too?

TD> I wouldn't. Much less rush online to make bitchy comments about
TD> it. (Yes Wateru, that's about you. And you too, Richard.)

I didn't read the resume, but I stand by my bitchy comment. An agency
that wants native translators to write PR-level material should be
paying two or three times the offered rates, and ideally, experienced
translators would not be so accommodating of low-paying agencies.

--
Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

[Richard Thieme]

----- Original Message -----
送信者 : "Tom Donahue" <arri...@gmail.com>
宛先 : <hon...@googlegroups.com>
送信日時 : 2009年4月17日 3:01
件名 : Re: Does Honyaku now allow attachments? Re: Request for quote J>E
translation

>

How do you know I read the attachments in this case?

I just commented on their appearing in my in-box.

I have in the past made the same mistake, and I for one feel that not having
the ability to ban attachments is a non-trivial problem in Google groups
(which is why I voted against the move). Think about what happens if you
think you are replying to a client, but click the wrong addressee by
mistake. Do they deserve to have their confidential information spread all
over the internet?

Regards,

Richard Thieme

[GOODMAN]

On 4/16/09, David Young <young...@vodafone.net.nz> wrote:
> Jun
>
> I write in response to your following request for J>E translators posted on
> honyaku.
>
> I have considerable experience in Japanese > English translation.
>

> I attach my CV and a few sample translations, for your perusal.
>
> TIA David Young

[Richard Thieme]

(snip)

Replying to myself.

>
> I just commented on their appearing in my in-box.
>
> I have in the past made the same mistake, and I for one feel that not
> having
> the ability to ban attachments is a non-trivial problem in Google groups
> (which is why I voted against the move).

-->Add in here. "I thought that this had been addressed, but I guess I was
wrong."

[Matt Stanton]

> I didn't read the resume, but I stand by my bitchy comment. An agency
> that wants native translators to write PR-level material should be
> paying two or three times the offered rates, and ideally, experienced
> translators would not be so accommodating of low-paying agencies.
>
> --
>  Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

Adam Smith wrote that whenever people of the same trade get together,
"the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public or in some
contrivance to raise prices."

We see this a lot on Honyaku, but it's never going to work because of
the sheer numbers of sellers in the market. I've been in the business
for 12 years and I think the rates Jun is offering are pretty
reasonable. I get the mid range of those rates for most of the agency
work I do, and never get more than 10 yen per char. I think this is
the reality for most freelancers, and I expect Jun will be inundated
with resumes from competent translators.

Matt Stanton

[Wataru Tenga]

Matt Stanton wrote...

MS> I've been in the business
MS> for 12 years and I think the rates Jun is offering are pretty
MS> reasonable. I get the mid range of those rates for most of the agency
MS> work I do, and never get more than 10 yen per char. I think this is
MS> the reality for most freelancers, and I expect Jun will be inundated
MS> with resumes from competent translators.

Just as another data point, I've been in the business for 25 years and
have never, ever worked for as little as his top rate, not even when I
was doing fluorescent lamp specs as a brand-new translator for an
agency, let alone for the type of work his offer describes. I think a
lot of translators start out not knowing the realities out there,
believing the low rates they are offered are the best they can do in
this profession. The reality is that companies, including some agencies,
are willing to pay much, much higher rates than those for good, reliable
translation.

--
Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

[Matt Stanton]

> Just as another data point, I've been in the business for 25 years and
> have never, ever worked for as little as his top rate, not even when I
> was doing fluorescent lamp specs as a brand-new translator for an
> agency, let alone for the type of work his offer describes. I think a
> lot of translators start out not knowing the realities out there,
> believing the low rates they are offered are the best they can do in
> this profession. The reality is that companies, including some agencies,
> are willing to pay much, much higher rates than those for good, reliable
> translation.
>
> --
> Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

Maybe, but I've dealt with dozens of agencies over the years and I've
really tried, and failed, to get higher rates than these. Some have
just refused, while others have registered me at a higher rate but not
given me any work. Frankly, I've given up trying now. It just doesn't
seem worth the effort, so my focus has shifted to producing just-good-
enough quality as fast as I possibly can.

I guess that 25 years ago rates were a lot higher, and that agencies
have continued paying such rates to the translators they have used
since those days. In my experience, agencies are very loyal to
translators they have had a successful relationship with for a long
time, and won't try to cut the rates they pay them for fear of harmig
the relationship. But if you're a new face, no matter how experienced
and competent you are, they're just not going to offer you more than
10 yen.

Matt Stanton

[Wataru Tenga]

Matt Stanton wrote...

MS> I guess that 25 years ago rates were a lot higher, and that agencies
MS> have continued paying such rates to the translators they have used
MS> since those days. In my experience, agencies are very loyal to
MS> translators they have had a successful relationship with for a long
MS> time, and won't try to cut the rates they pay them for fear of harmig
MS> the relationship. But if you're a new face, no matter how experienced
MS> and competent you are, they're just not going to offer you more than
MS> 10 yen.

My current agency relationships were formed not 25 years ago but within
the past several years.

--
Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

[Matt Stanton]

> My current agency relationships were formed not 25 years ago but within
> the past several years.
>
> --
>  Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

Interesting. I still do the bulk of my work for agencies I've been
with for many years.

If you don't mind me asking, is your situation the result of finding
it difficult to maintain long-term relationships at high rates, or is
it the result of relentlessly seeking out agencies that'll pay a bit
more than the ones you're currently with, such that you're continually
forming and discontinuing relationships?

Matt Stanton

[Wataru Tenga]

Matt Stanton wrote...

MS> Interesting. I still do the bulk of my work for agencies I've been
MS> with for many years.

MS> If you don't mind me asking, is your situation the result of finding
MS> it difficult to maintain long-term relationships at high rates, or is
MS> it the result of relentlessly seeking out agencies that'll pay a bit
MS> more than the ones you're currently with, such that you're continually
MS> forming and discontinuing relationships?

None of the above, really. For most of my career I have worked primarily
for direct clients, not agencies. I still retain some direct clients
(the 300-page book I finished last month, the work I'm doing right now,
etc.), but have been shifting the balance in favor of certain
well-paying agencies because it's a better way of managing my work load,
and of ensuring a steady supply of work year round. My relationship with
my best-paying agency and biggest source of work right now is getting
close to ten years, in fact.

--
Wataru Tenga, Tokyo

[Captain Adam]

In my opinion, a good translator is worth every penny. However, as a
translation company owner and former freelance translator, I find it
hard to justify that the occupation of "translator" is worth more than
a $75,000/year salary. If a person translates an average of 5000
source characters per 8-hour day, 5 days per week (which is
considerably less that the rest of the private sector of Japan and USA
work) it comes out to between 6 and 7 yen per source character. In my
opinion 5000 characters a day is the pace that an intermediate level
translator should be able to process. I know many great translators
who can almost double that under the right circumstances.
That being said though, I will be the first to admit that I have
worked for much more though and, if the company or agency sourcing the
work can afford more, that they should pay more for a higher level of
translation.

Just my two-bits.

Captain Adam

[Marc Adler]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:28 AM, Captain Adam <adambb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> translation company owner and former freelance translator, I find it
> hard to justify that the occupation of "translator" is worth more than
> a $75,000/year salary. If a person translates an average of 5000

Explain "justify."

--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com

[Fred Uleman]

If I thought in those terms, I might find it difficult to justify that a run-of-the-mill translator is worth $75,000/year. But I might find it difficult to justify that a run-of-the-mill doctor is worth that much either..

But do I shop around for the cheapest doctor? Or do I go to a specialist and think not in terms of what this person potentially earns per year but in terms of what s/he does for me when I need him/her?

I don't think in terms of how much this or that author is worth per year. I ask what this or that book is worth to me now. Clients should be thinking not about what the translator might be earning per year but in terms of what this or that translation is worth. If you have an important translation, give it to a good translator and don't worry about how much it costs. If it is entirely unimportant, give it to your dog.

--
Fred Uleman

[Joji Matsuo]

Captain Adam wrote:
> In my opinion, a good translator is worth every penny. However, as a
> translation company owner and former freelance translator, I find it
> hard to justify that the occupation of "translator" is worth more than
> a $75,000/year salary.

What I don't understand about this post is that your opinion states that "a
good translator is worth every penny", but you're unable to justify that
same translator can be worth more than x amount of money.

You're essentially saying that a translator is worth every penny until
he/she earns 75,000 USD. From that point on, you would what, fire the
translator?

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

Joji Matsuo
Omaezaki, Shizuoka

[Karen Sandness]

In every other line of free-lance work, the upper limit on earnings is
what customers are willing to pay. Why should translation be any
different?

Comparatively yours,
Karen Sandness

[Joji Matsuo]

Karen,

> In every other line of free-lance work, the upper limit on
> earnings is
> what customers are willing to pay. Why should translation be any
> different?

Why should translation be the same?
Isn't an occupation worth the amount provided in value?

If an in-house translator turns out enough work that earns his company 15 M
yen a year, is that translator still worth only half the amount?

Joji Matsuo
Omaezaki, Shizuoka

[Jim Lockhart]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:28:03 -0500
Karen Sandness wrote:

> In every other line of free-lance work, the upper limit on earnings is
> what customers are willing to pay. Why should translation be any
> different?

It shouldn't. Another problem with the captain's arbitrary limit on what
we should be eligible to earn is that it is undifferentiated for
language pairs.

--Jim Lockhart
Hachioji, Tokyo

[Friedemann Horn]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Joji Matsuo <hon...@jmatsuo.com> wrote:
> What I don't understand about this post is that your opinion states that "a
> good translator is worth every penny", but you're unable to justify that
> same translator can be worth more than x amount of money.

I think "x is worth every penny" is just an expression that should not be
taken literally.

Friedemann Horn
www.horn-uchida.jp

[Joji Matsuo]

Friedemann wrote:
> I think "x is worth every penny" is just an expression that
> should not be taken literally.

Perhaps.

The only way I can understand this is if the Captain is saying a translator
is worth every penny [he pays his translator], but because of the operating
costs and other overhead in his company, he can't 'afford' to pay any more
than $75,000.

That, however, is not what he wrote.

Joji Matsuo
Omaezaki, Shizuoka

[Jim Lockhart]

Taken literally or figuratively, it still means pretty much the same
thing and conflicts with the notion that translators are not worth or do
not deserve to earn more than a specific figure, or that earnings up to only
a specific figure are fair.

--Jim Lockhart
Hachioji, Tokyo

[Laurie Berman]

There are various ways of calculating what a job is worth, including
the simple (and discussion-ending) formula of "whatever the market
decides." But the LEAST helpful criterion I can think of cultural
prejudice, and frankly, that's all I can see behind the statement
that "it's hard to justify that the occupation of 'translator' is

worth more than a $75,000/year salary."

Then again, maybe I'm being too harsh. Maybe the Captain just has
very limited contact with the market. I realize my own little segment
is anything but typical, but in that segment no one is expected to
translate anything remotely like 25,000 characters per week. If you
have translators who are willing and able to crank out 25,000
characters per week at 6 to 7 yen per word and clients who are
willing to pay for your translations, fine. But it's absurd to assume
that the whole industry follows the same low-value-added model, or
should.

BTW, it's also wrong, for a whole host of reasons, to use someone's
yearly salary to calculate a reasonable per-character rate for free-
lance work.

Laurie Berman

[Warren Smith]

 

I  agree with Fred: 

I don't think in terms of how much this or that author is worth per year. I ask what this or that book is worth to me now. Clients should be thinking not about what the translator might be earning per year but in terms of what this or that translation is worth. If you have an important translation, give it to a good translator and don't worry about how much it costs. If it is entirely unimportant, give it to your dog.
 

-----------------

Many of my clients would be very upset if they knew how much money a skilled translator can make. I don't tell them. I keep them focused on the individual job, and how much that job is worth, and how much the market rate for that job is.

 

Years back I had one client that had a bunch of in-house translators and also contracted work to me (on a per-word basis). I produced much more work than any of the in-house translators, doing so more cheaply than the in-house translators, but when this translation manager realized that I was making substantially more money than she was, she got very upset, and started sabotaging me a every turn -- despite the fact that I was producing much more work with much shorter lead times at much lower costs than her in-house staff. Our working relationship went downhill very quickly after that, and soon I had to stop working for her.

 

Because of that, I get very nervous when any single client starts to account for more than about 30% of my business (especially if working for a large corporation which views translation as a "cost center" rather than a "profit center").

 

W

 

[Akebono Translation Service]

Dear Warren,

Because of that, I get very nervous when any single client starts to account for more than about 30% of my business (especially if working for a large corporation which views translation as a "cost center" rather than a "profit center").

I don't. I refuse to serve people who are jealous of my income.

I drive a very nice car. A friend of mine, who has a very nice car too, refuses to take it to clients.

I don't care. A client who refuses me because of my car can take a hike. I don't want clients like that, I don't need clients like that and I don't like clients like that. 

To be honest, I find clients and people who are jealous of others absolutely despicable. It's not like I stole the money. I earned it honestly. 

Best regards,

Loek van Kooten

-- 

Akebono Translation Service

Rijnstraat 32

2311 NK Leiden

The Netherlands

Tel: +31-87-8763636

Fax: +31-84-7390618

www.akebono.nl

 

Terms and conditions: www.akebono.nl/terms.doc

Chamber of Commerce reg. no.: 28066372

[David J. Littleboy]

From: "Akebono Translation Service" <in...@akebono.nl>

>>>>>>>>>>>>
I drive a very nice car. A friend of mine, who has a very nice car too,
refuses to take it to clients.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Huh? There are translators who can afford cars?

David J. Littleboy
Who doesn't like cars, and therefore doesn't own one.
Tokyo, Japan

[Nate is fine.]

I suspect that Captain Adam means something like what I intoned a
while back: Translation is too easy for the money.

I was, of course, met with a chorus of jeers, but that conclusion is
only natural for someone who works in-house and thinks in terms of
annual salary instead of results, and compares salaries to other
professions instead of profits.

In the meantime, I've come to appreciate what it takes to translate a
broad range of material well, and I'm changing my tune. It didn't
take long to realize that those enormous piles of money weren't going
to materialize so easily.

BTW, thanks for leaving my ass half-intact back when I wrote that
post.

Nate Moore