किसी ऐसे काल
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Rachel H.
Jul 1, 2008, 5:21:29 PM7/1/08
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As I continue to read Narendra Kohli's हम सब का घर, I have a few more questions and observations:-)
1. I found the phrase किसी ऐसे काल in the following sentence, and am pretty sure it translates to "times like these", which is an interesting phrase for learners (assuming I am correct!):
मुझे लगता है कि यह कथा भी हमें इस देश के किसी ऐसे काल की घटना का समाचार देती है…
2. I think misunderstanding भू-भाग in the following sentence is completely messing me up, but I can't come up with a satisfactory translation. Perhaps I am not getting the grammatical structure correctly at the end. The Father is talking about the general state of affairs for the Ganges River:
तुम सोचो कि उस समय भारत के उस भू-भाग की क्या स्थिति हो गई होगी, जहाँ-जहाँ से गंगा बहकर जाती होगी।
If I break the sentence into 4 parts I get:
Think about ...
...what the position of India's rulers must have been at the time, (I think the dictionary says भू-भाग means "land-ruler, king", could it mean "government"/"leadership" here?)...
...wherever the Ganges regularly flows. (I'm missing exactly how the verb tense should be translated here, too...my understanding of -ती होगी endings is that it translates to "presumably"...so here "wherever the Ganges presumably flows"...or could it also mean "regularly flows"?)
I think that by "that time" he means Puranic times, based on the earlier explanation that the story he is about to tell is from the Puranas.
3. This is kind of a simple question: does अथवा always mean "or"?
4. I think there's a decent chance I got the following sentence correct, but I was wondering if you could please comment on my translation:
तब भगीरथ ने उस क्षेत्र में पहुँचकर, जहाँ गंगा का उदगम है, अथवा जहाँ से ग।गा जल ग्रहण करती है, अवरोधों को हटाया होगा।
I said "Then having arrived in the area where the Ganges' source was, or where the Ganges got its water, Bhagirath would have had to remove the blockage."
5. OK, so I am running into some very difficult sentences again, after several pages that were relatively problem-free. This next one is very long. I've thought about it very hard, and ended up with not an exact translation, but what I think is the translation in proper/flowing English. But I am wondering if I missed a nuance or two. And there's भू-भाग again, but this time the approach I took last time won't work. So I would very much appreciate your reactions to my attempt:
बहुत संभव है कि तब के इंजीनियरों ने कुछ इस प्रकार खुदाई भी की हो कि उस क्षेत्र का जल हिमालय की दूसरी ओर न बह जाए और वे सारी धाराएं मिलकर धीरे-धीरे एक बड़ी नदी बनाएं, जिसका नाम गंगा है, ताकि हिमालय से लेकर aबगाल की खाड़ी तक का भू-भाग फिर से जी सके।
"It is very possible that the engineers of that time might even have done some special digging, that the water didn't flow from the Himilayas and gathering the whole mass together they very slowly made a big river, whose name was the Ganges, so that from the Himalayas to the Bay of Bengal the land could once again come alive."
6. Lastly, I came across a verb, लिटा दिया, that wasn't in the dictionary, but from context I know what it means. I thought I'd mention it in case any other learners come across it and it isn't so clear what it means...लिटना must mean "to cause something to lie down".
पिताजी ने उन्हें कंधों से पकड़कर लिटा दिया और ऊपर से चदरों भी ओढ़ा दीं।
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1. I found the phrase किसी ऐसे काल in the following sentence, and am pretty sure it translates to "times like these", which is an interesting phrase for learners (assuming I am correct!):
मुझे लगता है कि यह कथा भी हमें इस देश के किसी ऐसे काल की घटना का समाचार देती है…
2. I think misunderstanding भू-भाग in the following sentence is completely messing me up, but I can't come up with a satisfactory translation. Perhaps I am not getting the grammatical structure correctly at the end. The Father is talking about the general state of affairs for the Ganges River:
तुम सोचो कि उस समय भारत के उस भू-भाग की क्या स्थिति हो गई होगी, जहाँ-जहाँ से गंगा बहकर जाती होगी।
If I break the sentence into 4 parts I get:
Think about ...
...what the position of India's rulers must have been at the time, (I think the dictionary says भू-भाग means "land-ruler, king", could it mean "government"/"leadership" here?)...
...wherever the Ganges regularly flows. (I'm missing exactly how the verb tense should be translated here, too...my understanding of -ती होगी endings is that it translates to "presumably"...so here "wherever the Ganges presumably flows"...or could it also mean "regularly flows"?)
I think that by "that time" he means Puranic times, based on the earlier explanation that the story he is about to tell is from the Puranas.
3. This is kind of a simple question: does अथवा always mean "or"?
4. I think there's a decent chance I got the following sentence correct, but I was wondering if you could please comment on my translation:
तब भगीरथ ने उस क्षेत्र में पहुँचकर, जहाँ गंगा का उदगम है, अथवा जहाँ से ग।गा जल ग्रहण करती है, अवरोधों को हटाया होगा।
I said "Then having arrived in the area where the Ganges' source was, or where the Ganges got its water, Bhagirath would have had to remove the blockage."
5. OK, so I am running into some very difficult sentences again, after several pages that were relatively problem-free. This next one is very long. I've thought about it very hard, and ended up with not an exact translation, but what I think is the translation in proper/flowing English. But I am wondering if I missed a nuance or two. And there's भू-भाग again, but this time the approach I took last time won't work. So I would very much appreciate your reactions to my attempt:
बहुत संभव है कि तब के इंजीनियरों ने कुछ इस प्रकार खुदाई भी की हो कि उस क्षेत्र का जल हिमालय की दूसरी ओर न बह जाए और वे सारी धाराएं मिलकर धीरे-धीरे एक बड़ी नदी बनाएं, जिसका नाम गंगा है, ताकि हिमालय से लेकर aबगाल की खाड़ी तक का भू-भाग फिर से जी सके।
"It is very possible that the engineers of that time might even have done some special digging, that the water didn't flow from the Himilayas and gathering the whole mass together they very slowly made a big river, whose name was the Ganges, so that from the Himalayas to the Bay of Bengal the land could once again come alive."
6. Lastly, I came across a verb, लिटा दिया, that wasn't in the dictionary, but from context I know what it means. I thought I'd mention it in case any other learners come across it and it isn't so clear what it means...लिटना must mean "to cause something to lie down".
पिताजी ने उन्हें कंधों से पकड़कर लिटा दिया और ऊपर से चदरों भी ओढ़ा दीं।
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Yogendra Joshi
Jul 2, 2008, 1:53:14 AM7/2/08
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1. किसी ऐसे काल = such a period of time (that events given by the context might have taken place)
2. उस समय भारत के उस भू-भाग की क्या स्थिति हो गई होगी = (Think of) what the condition of that region of Indian land might have been ( भू-भाग = piece, portion, part or division of land)
जहाँ-जहाँ से गंगा बहकर जाती होगी। = through which (region) Ganga might have been flowing.
3. अथवा = या = or, perhaps always in Hindi. The term is of Sanskrit origin and there it sometimes has additional meanings also.
4. ...अवरोधों को हटाया होगा। = (he) might have had removed the blockages (in plural).
5. कि उस क्षेत्र का जल हिमालय की दूसरी ओर न बह जाए = that the water of that region would stop flowing to the other side of the Himalayas. और वे सारी धाराएं मिलकर धीरे-धीरे एक बड़ी नदी बनाएं = and that by meeting together, all those streams/rivulets gradually form a big river.
6. लिटा दिया = लिटाया (there could be a very subtle difference between the two!) = It is the past tense of लिटा देना = लिटाना = to help (someone) lie down, to make (someone) lie down. (लिटना perhaps does not exist.) लिटा देना would literally mean 'to make (one) assume a physical posture of lying down'
-- योगेन्द्र
2. उस समय भारत के उस भू-भाग की क्या स्थिति हो गई होगी = (Think of) what the condition of that region of Indian land might have been ( भू-भाग = piece, portion, part or division of land)
जहाँ-जहाँ से गंगा बहकर जाती होगी। = through which (region) Ganga might have been flowing.
3. अथवा = या = or, perhaps always in Hindi. The term is of Sanskrit origin and there it sometimes has additional meanings also.
4. ...अवरोधों को हटाया होगा। = (he) might have had removed the blockages (in plural).
5. कि उस क्षेत्र का जल हिमालय की दूसरी ओर न बह जाए = that the water of that region would stop flowing to the other side of the Himalayas. और वे सारी धाराएं मिलकर धीरे-धीरे एक बड़ी नदी बनाएं = and that by meeting together, all those streams/rivulets gradually form a big river.
6. लिटा दिया = लिटाया (there could be a very subtle difference between the two!) = It is the past tense of लिटा देना = लिटाना = to help (someone) lie down, to make (someone) lie down. (लिटना perhaps does not exist.) लिटा देना would literally mean 'to make (one) assume a physical posture of lying down'
-- योगेन्द्र
2008/7/2 Rachel H. <rm...@hotmail.com>:
narayan prasad
Jul 2, 2008, 10:15:07 AM7/2/08
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<<लिटा देना = लिटाना = to help (someone) lie down, to make (someone) lie down. (लिटना perhaps does not exist.) >>
BTW, are you a native speaker ?
I am sending the grammatical explanation separately under the subject "Construction of causative verbs".
---Narayan Prasad
2008/7/2, Yogendra Joshi <yogendr...@gmail.com>:
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