Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power goes out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
> Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power goes > out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut > wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups > but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
Because of the acid in car batteries, I would not recommend using one indoors, Jonah. Possibiliy of explosion is great , also.
> Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
Have you consider a position with a Lazy Boy Factory? ;^)
Most UPS (Back Up) power supplies are not meant to run your computer for extended periods when the power goes out. They are for saving open files and shutting down your PC in a controlled manner.
I Bought a Belkin 500 VA UPS that powers my PC, Monitor (17"), Cable Modem, and Wireless Router. (I did not bother with the powered speakers) I get about 12-14 minutes of Back Up Power before "Battery Critical Low" alarm comes in. This UPS came with a serial cable to tell the PC to shut down after 5 Minutes (Adjustable). So, if I am not home the machine will shut down normally. I bought it at Radio Shack for $99.00.
If you build your own, it is going to cost a lot more, and you will not have communications between your back up and the PC. A 500 VA UPS is about 300 watts of power. So, you will need an Inverter that can supply at least that much, and a decent deep cycle (Marine) battery plus a battery charger.
If you want to surf the 'Net in the dark or play games with the power out, you are going to have to fork out some cash to do it.
Jonah Wamboldt wrote: > Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power goes > out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut > wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups > but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
> Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
"Jonah Wamboldt" <wambo...@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote: > Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power > goes out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was > jsut wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know > theres ups but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
> Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
A UPS is not generally designed to run systems, they're designed to allow a user to shut their systems down properly...
>"Jonah Wamboldt" <wambo...@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in message >news:U0a5c.5845$kc2.132323@nnrp1.uunet.ca... >> Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power >goes >> out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut >> wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups >> but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
>Because of the acid in car batteries, I would not recommend using one >indoors, Jonah. Possibiliy of explosion is great , also.
>> Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
>Have you consider a position with a Lazy Boy Factory? ;^)
Hum I need to find some part time work, or rather I NEED a few more $.
Sure its not too bad Yes lead acid batteries put off hydrogen gas you just have to have a well vented room so they don't build up. Then you need a batter, A marine deep cycle would be best. A 12 vold battery charger. Now for the big thing. You'd want a BEEFY inverter. Which will cost a lot :(
http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm THe plus side of this one is that its always running off the inverter (which also may be a down side)
Thats about all you need to know.
==Jimmbo
"Jonah Wamboldt" <wambo...@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in message
> Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power goes > out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut > wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups > but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
> Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
> Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power goes > out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut > wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups > but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
> Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
You could get a UPS to provide 15 minutes of immediate power ($100), and also wire an inverter up to a couple marine batteries. I've used a PC off of a 300VA inverter and a car battery before, and the inverter cost $40 bucks at Wal-Mart. A marine battery is like $80 at CTC. You'll also need a trickle charger that can charge very slowly, as marine batteries need low charging current. You'd use it like this: Power goes out, UPS runs system while you plug in the inverter setup, plug UPS into inverter setup which will provide power until NSP fixes the problem or you run out of juice.
The reason why you need a marine battery is that they can be used for full charge / discharge cycles for dozens of times, while a car battery can't.
Good tinking, I never thought about doing it that way. But, a 300 VA Inverter might be a little on the small side, better to go with a 500 VA or a 750 VA!
>>Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power
> goes
>>out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut >>wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups >>but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
>>Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
> You could get a UPS to provide 15 minutes of immediate power ($100), and > also wire an inverter up to a couple marine batteries. I've used a PC off of > a 300VA inverter and a car battery before, and the inverter cost $40 bucks > at Wal-Mart. A marine battery is like $80 at CTC. You'll also need a trickle > charger that can charge very slowly, as marine batteries need low charging > current. You'd use it like this: Power goes out, UPS runs system while you > plug in the inverter setup, plug UPS into inverter setup which will provide > power until NSP fixes the problem or you run out of juice.
> The reason why you need a marine battery is that they can be used for full > charge / discharge cycles for dozens of times, while a car battery can't.
The best test is to just un plug your UPS with the computer running and time how long you can run before the low battery alarm comes in. A 500 VA UPS should give you about 15 minutes + or - a couple of minutes. My UPS (A Belkin) came with "Belkin Bulldog" monitoring software that tells me the health of the battery and when I should replace it.
Well I like the idea of a marine bettery. As for inverters, You can get a 600watt for ~120. For the autoshutoff, I'm not too interested anyways. I can get a 12v guage which will let me know when shes going to go, I can also all it in my case to make it look nice.
Also, For ups, they use a battery of some sort. Are they 12v? If they are, couldnt you just run another 12v battery in parallel? or would it mess up the charger part?
> Good tinking, I never thought about doing it that way. But, a 300 VA > Inverter might be a little on the small side, better to go with a 500 VA > or a 750 VA!
> >>Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power
> > goes
> >>out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut > >>wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres ups > >>but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
> >>Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so perfect:)
> > You could get a UPS to provide 15 minutes of immediate power ($100), and > > also wire an inverter up to a couple marine batteries. I've used a PC off of > > a 300VA inverter and a car battery before, and the inverter cost $40 bucks > > at Wal-Mart. A marine battery is like $80 at CTC. You'll also need a trickle > > charger that can charge very slowly, as marine batteries need low charging > > current. You'd use it like this: Power goes out, UPS runs system while you > > plug in the inverter setup, plug UPS into inverter setup which will provide > > power until NSP fixes the problem or you run out of juice.
> > The reason why you need a marine battery is that they can be used for full > > charge / discharge cycles for dozens of times, while a car battery can't.
Most inverters come with auto shut off protection. They will sound an audible alarm when the voltage gets low and display a warning light, and will usually shut off at ~10V (to protect the cells.) This of course won't gracefully close programs on the PC, it will simply stop supplying power.
As for UPSes it probably depends on the manufacture, it may be 12V, or it may be 6V, but people do wire extra batteries in parallel and batteries are available in both voltages. When the rolling blackouts were popular in California, people paid to have enough capacity by wiring extra batteries into a UPS. The only problem I see with this method is it would require a lot of work to ensure it's safe. I'd hate to imagine what would happen if the wires shorted out.
If the charging circuit was a worry, you could hook the marine batteries up to an external charger after power is restored, and the internal charger is probably good enough for a maintenance charge.
"Jonah Wamboldt" <wambo...@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in message
> Well I like the idea of a marine bettery. As for inverters, You can get a > 600watt for ~120. For the autoshutoff, I'm not too interested anyways. I > can get a 12v guage which will let me know when shes going to go, I can also > all it in my case to make it look nice.
> Also, For ups, they use a battery of some sort. Are they 12v? If they are, > couldnt you just run another 12v battery in parallel? or would it mess up > the charger part? > "ZOLOFT" <zol...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:zAm5c.6051$kc2.135780@nnrp1.uunet.ca... > > Good tinking, I never thought about doing it that way. But, a 300 VA > > Inverter might be a little on the small side, better to go with a 500 VA > > or a 750 VA!
> > >>Ok, I was having this crazy idea that I need backup power if the power
> > > goes
> > >>out. Could you use a 12v car bettery with a ac/dc converter? I was jsut > > >>wondering if anyone has ever done something like this?. I know theres > ups > > >>but what i can read, They only last like 10-15 minutes?
> > >>Also, I built a new computer chair, The seat from the van is so > perfect:)
> > > You could get a UPS to provide 15 minutes of immediate power ($100), and > > > also wire an inverter up to a couple marine batteries. I've used a PC > off of > > > a 300VA inverter and a car battery before, and the inverter cost $40 > bucks > > > at Wal-Mart. A marine battery is like $80 at CTC. You'll also need a > trickle > > > charger that can charge very slowly, as marine batteries need low > charging > > > current. You'd use it like this: Power goes out, UPS runs system while > you > > > plug in the inverter setup, plug UPS into inverter setup which will > provide > > > power until NSP fixes the problem or you run out of juice.
> > > The reason why you need a marine battery is that they can be used for > full > > > charge / discharge cycles for dozens of times, while a car battery > can't.
I am not sure if you understand the difference between a "Back up Power Supply" and a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) There is a BIG difference. A back up system like you are thinking about is just for using when the power goes out. A UPS system is designed to provide a seamless transition to battery power with no bump or flicker of current/voltage. That way the PC does not reboot and no data is lost. The principle of a UPS in a nutshell is this:
AC Line--->Battery Charger--->Batteries--->Inverter--->AC Load (PC)
When the power is on, the battery charger floats the batteries AND carries the entire load of the Inverter (Important). When the AC Line power is lost the battery charger shuts down and the batteries start to discharge through the inverter until they are exhausted, or the power is restored.
Most Automotive battery chargers produce RAW DC with tons of 60Hz ripple, but for charging a car battery that is fine, because the battery its self acts like a filter capacitor. I seriously doubt that an Inverter would handle Dirty DC current very well. Plus, the maximum current draw of the inverter would have to be matched by the battery charger in order to keep the batteries from going flat under load with the charger in service.
If you simply want to have power available during an outage, a small charger to charge up the battery is fine, BUT you would NOT be able to use the Charger/Battery/Inverter setup as a UPS.
Another excellent reason to have a UPS supply for a computer is, you get complete Isolation Protection from Line voltage Spikes, Surges, Frequency issues, brown outs and even lightening! Most UPS companies carry insurance to repair or replace equipment damaged by AC line problems if in the rare event the UPS does fail to protect it.
Jonah Wamboldt wrote: > Well I like the idea of a marine bettery. As for inverters, You can get a > 600watt for ~120. For the autoshutoff, I'm not too interested anyways. I > can get a 12v guage which will let me know when shes going to go, I can also > all it in my case to make it look nice.
> Also, For ups, they use a battery of some sort. Are they 12v? If they are, > couldnt you just run another 12v battery in parallel? or would it mess up > the charger part? > "ZOLOFT" <zol...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> I am not sure if you understand the difference between a "Back up Power > Supply" and a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) There is a BIG > difference. A back up system like you are thinking about is just for > using when the power goes out. A UPS system is designed to provide a > seamless transition to battery power with no bump or flicker of > current/voltage. That way the PC does not reboot and no data is lost. > The principle of a UPS in a nutshell is this:
> AC Line--->Battery Charger--->Batteries--->Inverter--->AC Load (PC)
> When the power is on, the battery charger floats the batteries AND > carries the entire load of the Inverter (Important). When the AC Line > power is lost the battery charger shuts down and the batteries start to > discharge through the inverter until they are exhausted, or the power is > restored.
You're thinking of high end true online UPSes. Those have expensive sine inverters, experience reduced battery life, etc. The $100 ones you see at futureshop, and most low end units (even most APC units), run on filtered 120V mains power and within a couple milliseconds of loosing power, having a brownout, or overvoltage, switch over to internal quasi-sine wave inverter power run off the battery. There is a couple milliseconds where there is no power (this is listed in the specs for a UPS), and capacitors in the PSU, etc carry over this momentary transition. For most consumer grade electronics this is enough.
We have "true UPS" systems at work (Power Plant) the gear takes up entire rooms and likewise has rooms just for the battery banks. BTW, which are sooo cool!! The large Lead Acid battery banks produce 129 VDC and are floated by huge battery chargers.
So what you are saying is that the inverter in my UPS is not supplying AC until the power fails? According to BELKIN, the Transfer Time from AC to Battery is 0 ms.
> You're thinking of high end true online UPSes. Those have expensive sine > inverters, experience reduced battery life, etc. The $100 ones you see at > futureshop, and most low end units (even most APC units), run on filtered > 120V mains power and within a couple milliseconds of loosing power, having a > brownout, or overvoltage, switch over to internal quasi-sine wave inverter > power run off the battery. There is a couple milliseconds where there is no > power (this is listed in the specs for a UPS), and capacitors in the PSU, > etc carry over this momentary transition. For most consumer grade > electronics this is enough.
It will always have AC as long as the UPS has 1 inverter and 1 converter. First the converter takes the AC turns it to DC this supplies both the battery and the inverter, the inverter then takes the DC either from the battery or the converter and inverts it back to AC! pretty much 0 ms.
ZOLOFT wrote: > We have "true UPS" systems at work (Power Plant) the gear takes up > entire rooms and likewise has rooms just for the battery banks. BTW, > which are sooo cool!! The large Lead Acid battery banks produce 129 VDC > and are floated by huge battery chargers.
> So what you are saying is that the inverter in my UPS is not supplying > AC until the power fails? According to BELKIN, the Transfer Time from > AC to Battery is 0 ms.
> Thanks for the heads up.
> Bill.
> Bill 2 wrote:
>> You're thinking of high end true online UPSes. Those have expensive sine >> inverters, experience reduced battery life, etc. The $100 ones you see at >> futureshop, and most low end units (even most APC units), run on >> filtered >> 120V mains power and within a couple milliseconds of loosing power, >> having a >> brownout, or overvoltage, switch over to internal quasi-sine wave >> inverter >> power run off the battery. There is a couple milliseconds where there >> is no >> power (this is listed in the specs for a UPS), and capacitors in the PSU, >> etc carry over this momentary transition. For most consumer grade >> electronics this is enough.
Just checked APC's website, and they do state 5-8 ms transfer times. My BELKIN states and I quote: "Transfer Time - N/A" . That may be the reason why my UPS is nice and warm all the time. I would think that the battery charger would not be doing much if it was only floating charged batteries. My laptop supply cools down to nothing once the batteries are fully charged, even when you are running on AC.
ZOLOFT wrote: > We have "true UPS" systems at work (Power Plant) the gear takes up > entire rooms and likewise has rooms just for the battery banks. BTW, > which are sooo cool!! The large Lead Acid battery banks produce 129 VDC > and are floated by huge battery chargers.
> So what you are saying is that the inverter in my UPS is not supplying > AC until the power fails? According to BELKIN, the Transfer Time from > AC to Battery is 0 ms.
> Thanks for the heads up.
> Bill.
> Bill 2 wrote:
>> You're thinking of high end true online UPSes. Those have expensive sine >> inverters, experience reduced battery life, etc. The $100 ones you see at >> futureshop, and most low end units (even most APC units), run on >> filtered >> 120V mains power and within a couple milliseconds of loosing power, >> having a >> brownout, or overvoltage, switch over to internal quasi-sine wave >> inverter >> power run off the battery. There is a couple milliseconds where there >> is no >> power (this is listed in the specs for a UPS), and capacitors in the PSU, >> etc carry over this momentary transition. For most consumer grade >> electronics this is enough.
