PROPOSAL: Purchase CNC Mill (Now with more detail!)

[Ben Humpherys]

Proposal: HeatSync Labs purchase Joseph Julicher’s CNC mill and all related accessories for the price of $1500, and a fund for CNC related donations be established to cover costs of tooling, maintenance, upgrades, etc. 

About the Machine:  The machine is an ENCO RF31 manual mill, which has been upgraded and converted to be a CNC Mill by the owner Joe. Joe has offered to help us move it and get it setup. It has:

•   9”x6”x5” working envelope.
•  The motors are 1200 oz/in nema-34 stepping motors for X and Y
•  600 oz/in nema 34 stepper motor for the Z axis
• Upgraded to have zero-backlash ballscrews
•   3600 rpm max spindle speed
•  3 horsepower motor

And Joe has offered to include with it:

•    4 Gecko G210 stepper motor drivers
  
•  Custom 720 watt power supply
  
•  A computer to run the CNC machine
  
•  A computer desk
  
•    A very LARGE and stable table to set the CNC machine on
  
•  EMC Linux CNC control software. (we have a license to MACH3 will will probably use instead)
  

And additionally, Joe has a “modest assortment” of the following included in the offer:

•  End mills
  
•   Boring head
  
•   Fly cutter
  
•   Saw
  
• Mill Holders
  
•  Arbors
  
•  Clamp kit
  
•  90 degree vise
  
•  A “crummy vise”
  

The cost of the upgrades from manual mill to CNC alone are worth more than the $1500 asking price, so this is a FREAKING AWESOME deal.

 We will have to wait for word from Jose to be certain on the financial details, but here on the google group there has been the following pledges:

• Jeremy Leung: $100
  
•  Will Bradley: $50
  
• Nate Plamandon: $50
  
• Jasper Nance: $200
  
•  Brian Aday: $100
  
• Russ Johnston: $50
  
• Warren: $50
  
• Paul Hicks: $50
  
•  Jdawgaz: $10 (Every bit counts!)
  
• JR:  $50
  

Total pledged:  $710!!!!!

So we should be VERY close to half-way funded just from members pockets, before even dipping into general lab funds. I’ll add here when I know from Jose what funds are actually in the bank for this. 

[Jerry Davis]

omg! that IS a lot of stuff. looks great to me.

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[Jacob Rosenthal]

Ben, I think your proposals are great. Your main problem (and it is always the main difficulty) is the follow through. The only person who can and will follow through is the person passionate about driving it forward. Today thats you!

First email each of these people and find out if they actually sent in money, and if they haven't hassle them until they do. Next, make sure you keep on jose at heatsynclabs dot org to find these pledges in the funds and account for them. Finally keep hassling him to be sure to he shows to the next HYH or sends along the necessary data with another board member.

[Ben Humpherys]

Not gonna lie, following through with ideas and making certain they happen is a challenge for me. So many more ideas than time and resources!!!

Emailing everyone about their donations is a great idea though, I'll go do that now.

[Jacob Rosenthal]

Excellent. Thanks for staying positive through this. We've all wanted CNC for years now but it takes someone to follow it all the way through and nobody has been willing or able up to now.

[Ben Humpherys]

An update:

So I contacted all the people who pledged, and of those two people have already put in the money, three said they would put it in right away, and one is awaiting the final vote to pass before making the donation. I think many people are somewhat hesitant to put up the money until this goes through, simply because if it falls through then the difficult question of what to do with what has been pledged arises.

Waiting on donations when there is uncertainty about whether the project will go through can lead to a chicken and egg sort of problem.  I suggest a kick-starter style widget we can put on the website, kindof like ignition deck for wordpress: http://ignitiondeck.com . The kickstarter style of charging everyones accounts only if fundraising succeeds would probably make this whole process easier.  Putting that in the "website ideas" folder lol. 

In other news, I contacted Joe, and the table for the CNC machine measures 40"x40"x30", but he recommends an additional 10 and 19 inches on either side, and 8 inches in front because the machine overhangs a bit. So for the machine we need a 64"x48" piece of floor space to fit the machine, plus a bit more to accommodate the computer. 

Joe is going to be out of town for a few weeks anyway, so we probably can't actually move the machine in until November. But lets vote to approve this anyway, so people can be assured it will happen and be confident their donations will be put to work. When he returns, lets meet him with check in hand!

[Ryan Mcdermott]

You could also just actually make this a kick starter.

I can totally understand people being hesitant to put money down on this before we even have a vote.

Kick starter also gives us exposure to people beyond the mailing list, and it gives an easy way to make credit card donations.  Cash doesn't go through the tubes very well...

To be blunt: you're totally operating under the assumption that the lab has the spare money to buy a mill right now, and is going to spend it.

We dont NEED "sync starter" to buy stuff...what is your plan if the vote fails?  Also werent you personally trying to buy a mill for your business very recently?  Are you still doing that?

-END OF LINE-

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[Paul Hickey]

I didn't think you could still use kickstarter to buy equipment anymore

Paul

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Paul Hickey

[Ben Humpherys]

I guess I need to explain my understanding of the financial situation a bit more, because I am actually rather confident that we DO have the funds available. This is based on one fact and two assumptions. First, near the end of August (about the 23rd), Will had spoken to Jose, and then told me that we had enough available, non-reserved funds that, between those and the pledges, we could in fact afford the machine. Thats when I began pushing this much more. I am making two assumptions: first, that our monthly income is greater than our monthly expenses, and second, that we have not purchased anything major since then. I think both of those are pretty safe assumptions, to the very best of my knowledge. Therefore, if the money was there near the end of August, it should still be there now. 

The whole "Sync-starter" funding method needs a rethink, lol. It's very loosely defined. A Kickstarter project is a great idea, assuming they haven't made a rule against that as well. Kickstarter is pretty restrictive nowadays. In general, the entire process of making large purchases could use some refinement. But since people have already made donations into the HeatSync account, that would complicate doing a kickstarter now. And besides, as stated above, I do think the funds are there. It has definitely been a learning process.

My plan for if the vote fails depends on why it fails. If it turns out the money just isn't there, then I'll probably wait until it is before proposing it again. 

And yea, I was looking at buying a CNC machine for my own business. I probably should have explained this sooner, but eventually I would like to be able to use the machine for my pcb manufacturing business, at least to start out with. I was going to only use it for that outside of the public hours, when others will be wanting to use it most. If people aren't comfortable with that though, I'm very willing to shelve the whole thing. I think that the opportunity for more people to have access to this technology is more important than if i end up being able to make a couple dollars. My primary motivation is not to make money with this machine, but to make it possible for people to have access to this revolutionary tool.

[Chad Stearns]

What is the financial status of heatsync at the moment?

Just because we do have money, doesnt mean we should necessarily spend it. If we have money in the bank, but, we are breaking even in terms of costs and revenue, then maybe we shouldnt spend that money. Not that that I KNOW we are just breaking even. I dont believe that, but I mean to say: how much money we are taking in is relevant to how much we should be spending. The simple fact that we have more money than a CNC costs does not mean we should spend that money on a CNC.

-ChadCS

[Jacob Rosenthal]

Just took in $20 from Eric Stevens (sp?) towards Cnc!

Logging it now

[David Huerta]

Correct, and Kickstarter is narrowing their focus even more from what I've heard from XOXO fest attendees. The CEO of IndieGoGo visited Alpha One Labs at World Maker Faire in NYC and said he's cool with basically anything not horrible, and they have a similar refund-if-it-fails payment setup.

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david [.dh] huerta

davidhuerta.me

[Ben Humpherys]

[Ben Humpherys]

Theres the tables Joe is giving us. The computer table is 40x36in. So we will want to be thinking about where to fit that as well.

[Ben Humpherys]

Here is the state of the HSL Finances, straight from Jose: 

"At this point we have collected only $480 towards the CNC purchase. If

there were other contributions they must have not been tagged
properly, though I dont think this is likely.

Currently we have ~ $8500 in the bank. Our run rate (aka monthly
expenses) has only slightly increased and sits around $2900. Major
expenses in the short term are payment for the welding machine ($2k).
We have our 3-month reserve in place which is over and above the
$8500.

End assessment, we can afford a CNC purchase but the community
commitment is not as promised. You will have to bring that up at HYH."

I know there is at least one person holding off until the machine is actually approved.

The worst-case scenario is that nobody contributes another penny. In which circumstance the difference is $1020. We have $8500 on top of the 3 month reserve, and an upcoming $2000 payment on the welding machine, so even in this worst-case scenario this purchase leaves $5480 in the bank. 

Still, that $230 shortfall between pledges and donations is a tad worrisome, and I really encourage everyone to pitch in their promised amount!

[JR]

Ben- the difference between the 2 amounts, is not a significant issue (as I've already pointed out).
The proposal can/should only be for the portion that hasn't been pledged, and until/unless the pledged amount comes in the purchase doesn't happen. 

Actually, the proper way would be to have a "not to exceed" value, so if more donations come in the lab portion can be automatically reduced.

So assuming my understanding of the pledges/donations so far is that the total is $730, the motion would be something like:

"I move we approve spending not more than $770 of HSL general funds to purchase the CNC mill offered to us by Joe, contingent upon the receipt of the pledged amount of $730 or more in donations to fund the balance before <insert date- I'd give it 2 weeks to hit a payday>.  If the $730 in donations are not received by the deadline, donors will be contacted to determine whether they would like their donation refunded or put into the HSL general fund."

[Jasper Nance]

Ooo I like that, JR!

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Jasper Nance - KE7PHI
Creative and Scientific Imagery
http://www.nebarnix.com/

[Ben Humpherys]

I've begun writing up a "how to purchase stuff" guide for large equipment like this from lessons learned from this whole process. And yea, my key recommendation will be just what you suggest: Set a specific dollar amount that will come from the general funds, and set out the mechanism by which donations will be raised in the proposal. Wording that it not be purchased until X amount of dollars has been donated would be one excellent way. I think getting the approval for the heatsync funds first before raising general donations would provide the reassurance that a donors money won't end up sidetracked somewhere else if things fall apart, and make people more confident and willing to give.

I'm hoping that people will approve it the way it stands right now, despite the flaws in the funding model, since we are already so close. But yes, in the future there are definitely ways to make the process run smoother.

[Austin Kipp]

I  Like that as well.

[Nate Plamondon]

You're my hero. This has been a great learning/growing experience, but let's only have it once. If you need help getting your guide onto the wiki, let me know.

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Nate Plamondon
Sent from a tiny on-screen keyboard

On Oct 11, 2012 3:46 PM, "Ben Humpherys" <moog...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've begun writing up a "how to purchase stuff" guide for large equipment like this from lessons learned from this whole process. And yea, my key recommendation will be just what you suggest: Set a specific dollar amount that will come from the general funds, and set out the mechanism by which donations will be raised in the proposal. Wording that it not be purchased until X amount of dollars has been donated would be one excellent way. I think getting the approval for the heatsync funds first before raising general donations would provide the reassurance that a donors money won't end up sidetracked somewhere else if things fall apart, and make people more confident and willing to give.

I'm hoping that people will approve it the way it stands right now, despite the flaws in the funding model, since we are already so close. But yes, in the future there are definitely ways to make the process run smoother.

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[Jacob Rosenthal]

Ben,

Congrats for pushing this through today. I know it seemed horrifyingly painful --some of it warranted and some not.  But I wanted to congratulate you on sticking through it all the way.

[Ben Humpherys]

Thanks. It's a relief to be done deliberating lol. 

[machinist]

hey, if you guys could give me some more information on the controller, i could look into getting a post processor to communicate with it.  

[Ryan Mcdermott]

Can I paypal @hslfinances for this?

OH!  Do we have a seperate: @hsldonations or something that I can put money at?

-Notrix

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Jeremy Davis <jsda...@gmail.com> wrote:

Being brand new and all, I'll start off meager but right, and give 25 bucks for this also.

On Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:45:04 PM UTC-7, Ben Humpherys wrote:

On Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:45:04 PM UTC-7, Ben Humpherys wrote:

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[Ben Humpherys]

The machine is controlled directly through a computer parallel port. The stepper motors are driven by Gecko 210 drivers, and I believe they are connected to the PC through a opto-isolated parallel port breakout board.

We have a donated license to MACH3 we were planning on using to run the machine.

[Will Bradley]

Yes please send your money to hslfi...@Gmail.com with a note saying what it's for (CNC mill).

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[Chad Stearns]

Marita and I are doing some treasuring right now.

I went through all our accounts to see what CNC donations I could account for. I have found a total of $530 worth of donations, some of which are from people who pledged, and some of the people who did pledge but havent paid (or if they did I havent been able to find it in our books). I will be contacting the people who did pledge but havent paid just to see whats up.

-ChadCS

[Chad Stearns]

Make that $730.

-ChadCS

[Corey Renner]

The Chadster, finding more treasure in the treasury.

 

c :)

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Chad Stearns <chadst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Make that $730.

-ChadCS

 

[Jerry Davis]

are either of you of goblin blood?

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Licensed Amateur Radio Operator: K7AZJ
Registered Linux User: 275424
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Recursion: (noun):
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[Chad Stearns]

No.

-ChadCS

[arizonamarita]

Speak for yourself Chad. ;)

[Will Bradley]

Nice! If $730 is the amount we needed, then Ben should be able to submit a procurement request and we can get to purchasin'!

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:27 PM, arizonamarita <arizon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Speak for yourself Chad. ;)

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[Chad Stearns]

I got some kind of email from Ben on that. Marita and I have a handful of invoices to take care of. The thing is neither of us are signers yet for any of our bank accounts. Jeremy Marita and I are going to get together on thursday to take care of this.

-ChadCS