change of direction on horses

[Milton]

You know it is getting tiring reading the endless banter getting
nowhere on the horse boarding issue. George your not going to find a
"smoking gun " in the permission documents .If there is a quid pro quo
it won't be in writing,and Dave just show Geo. the stupid documents
and get it over and buried.
We need to get on subjects that benefit the entire neighborhood.
The horse issue is one that really upset many of the residents and
probably will smolder for some time. I know I stayed away from it
during election time ,despite countless people continually bringing it
up.(Yes Dave there are more people than Geo. upset about it.There were
horse owners that rejected the developers limited offer for obvious
moral and ethical reasons reasons..
Personally I think the banning of the residents from picking
oranges in the old groves is a bunch of crap. THere are tens of
thousands of delicious oranges now going to waste for no good
reason.There are aliigators being culled from the lakes and ponds
regularily. Go to the dock nightly like I do and your lucky if you see
a gator once a month.. In a pristine lake like Buck Lake you should be
able to walk on them from one side of the lake to the other.You can
see gator trappers early (about 6:00am) on the west road into
Harmony about once a month (in that little turn in on the right as you
come in).What goes on at night we'll never know as you have to be out
of Buck Lake by sundown).
Anyway Dave and Geo. settle your little quarrel and lets get on
with life..

[Dave Leeman]

Milton
I am truly sorry. I honestly believed the number people paying
attention to this was, if not zero, then pretty close to it. It
greatly surprises me to have three others post about this subject.
All I ever wanted was for George to stop insulting my wife.
As far as I'm concerned, we can quit now.

[Geo]

Dave, there are currently 43 members of this group who receive emails.
Who knows how many more read at their leisure from the website.

You have mistakenly assumed that just because people are not writing
they are also not reading. I think more folks than just I would like
to know everything you know about the horse situation: how it got
started, how it got changed by Bob Evans and how it got from there to
whatever it is today. We would also like to know what can be done to
open it up for everyone and we would like to know how to avoid similar
exclusionary arrangements with the developer in the future.

IMHO, it would be helpful for you to share whatever information you
have, as you implied you would when you agreed to answer my questions.

I am sorry if you think the Q & A is some plot to insult your wife. It
isn't. It is an honest effort to get at the facts. What opinions may
be formed after all the facts are known is for the readers to decide.
Withholding the facts won't be helpful at all.

I will continue with the Q & A on the Harmony Horse Amenity. Hopefully
you will think better of it and respond in a more positive vein.

[Dave Leeman]

George,
You'll have to forgive me for being jaded. Shell-shocked is more like
it. After months of you consistently putting Kerul and I in the worst
light possible, offering up insulting and unsubstantiated opinions,
and never once giving us the benefit of the doubt, I am hard pressed
to believe you have somehow turned it all around. The evidence is on
my side that you haven't. In your response to Jim Warren, on the Q&A
thread you wrote,
"Why? Because Dave has repeatedly accused me in the past (unfairly I
would add) of claiming that my opinions are facts."
Exactly how are my "accusations" unfair? Give me one example from our
posts where I "accused" you of claiming your opinion was a fact when I
was wrong. Actually, since you say I did it repeatedly, you should
have numerous examples. Please provide some. Otherwise, please
retract your statement that I have repeatedly accused you unfairly.
That would certainly encourage posting in a more positive manner.

> > > with life..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Eric Pfefferkorn]

Touché!

[gad...@aol.com]

Thank you Milton,
Some things will never change....some have and some have not   it is what it is
Kathy Ball

-----Original Message-----
From: Milton <Buttonb...@Yahoo.com>
To: HarmonyFL <Harm...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 4:23 pm
Subject: [HarmonyFL:364] change of direction on horses

---

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[Jim Warren]

That’s true Kathy. And until the USA becomes a socialist country it will always be that way.

In the same way that some people spend their whole life complaining, and some people just get on with life, and do what they need to do that works for them.

No point crying over spilt milk my Mom would say………

 

Jim

[Dave Leeman]

Milton,
Your mention of the alligators is indeed troubling. At the (I think)
Nov conservation meeting we brought this to the attention of
Conservation Director Greg Golgowski. His statement was as follows:
Due to the fact that virtually all human fatalities are from gators 10
feet or more in length, the policy is to cull any gators that reach
that length.
I can't remember if it was stated or if it was implied that this is on
a case by case basis, and the trapper is called each time, but that is
the impression we got. It was absolutely not stated or implied that
the trapper has carte blanche to trap every month.
It sounds as if something is fishy is happening here. Has anyone else
seen this monthly trapping?

On Jan 8, 4:23 pm, Milton <Buttonbush7...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

[wallsr]

Dave,

I've not seen the trappers, but as a regular visitor to Buck Lake for the
past 3+ years, I can tell you that I've noticed a visible decrease in the
number of gators on the lake.

This is also true in the rentention ponds on the golf course. I played golf
in Harmony well before living here and several years ago you would see at
least one gator (some large) in almost all of the ponds. That is not the
case anymore.

I can see the positive and negatives of the situation. However, most of the
positive reasons for removing the gators are man-made (people feeding them,
taunting them, etc.). Being a life-long Floridian, seeing these guys in the
bodies of water doesn't phase me in the least, but people who are new to the
area and are often undeducated about the animal's behavior are
understandably prone to want to do these things. I've been out on the boats
in Buck Lake and have been followed around by large gators looking to be
fed, which obviously is a behavior they have learned.

Probably what is needed is a comprhensive education program regarding what
you should and should not do around gators. I would propose making this
part of the boat orientation that is required for all residents who want to
go out on the water. This won't completely solve the problem, but it may
save a few gators from becoming boots.

As for the prohibition on taking the oranges that Milton mentioned, I wasn't
aware that was even a policy. I've never made the hike to the orange
groves, but it doesn't seen to make too much sense to prohibit people from
taking them if they're just going to go to waste.

Ray

[Geo]

"whole life complaining"

That's pretty funny Jim, coming from someone who does little more in
this forum than complain about the so-called complainers.

The truth is that you would prefer that the "complainers" shut up and
go away (as you have stated before, in other words, see "No, not sad
at all" posted 5/21/2008). That's your opinion Jim and in the good ol'
USA you have every right to it, and to express it too. But by the same
token, I have a right not to be silenced by you or anyone else who
would prefer that the truth remain buried.

The USA is not a socialist country, thankfully. But that does not mean
that social justice does not exist here. What we want and what we will
ultimately have is fairness, whether you like it not.

As an example of what I mean, consider Great Britain. England is not a
socialist country either, but the English have tolerated some
unfairness to a greater degree than we have. Many Brits have accepted
hereditary rights without question, perhaps because it's been that
way there for as long as anyone can remember.

In the USA we chafe at the thought of a monarchy or a landed gentry.
All of that is contrary to the concept of a meritocracy that most
Americans hold dear.

Here, what you have is what you have earned, openly, honestly and
fairly (we hope). For some people to have what others cannot, without
regard to their merits, is simply wrong. Most Americans hold this
truth to be self-evident (among others).

On Jan 9, 10:37 am, "Jim Warren" <j...@jj-telecoms.com> wrote:
> That's true Kathy. And until the USA becomes a socialist country it will
> always be that way.
>
> In the same way that some people spend their whole life complaining, and
> some people just get on with life, and do what they need to do that works
> for them.
>

> No point crying over spilt milk my Mom would say...

> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See

> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215195222x1200993641/aol?red...
> p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=82%26bcd=Dec
> emailfooterNO82>  yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Jim]

George,

See here you go again... why do you think "whole life complaining" was
aimed at you?
Get off your paranoid merry go round, and do something productive.
Instead of trying to ridicule your neighbors.

“As an example of what I mean, consider Great Britain. England is not
a socialist country either.” You have no idea what you are talking
about. Great Britain is more socialist than you believe.(Current
“labour” government is born from the unions and socialist party) You
have no idea about life in GB. How many times have you been to GB and
lived the life?

“That's pretty funny Jim, coming from someone who does little more in
this forum than complain about the so-called complainers.” – This is
because that is what you entice people to do. I have do more for this
community than you George. So don’t go there. Where have I complained
about anyone on “George’s World”?

“The USA is not a socialist country, thankfully. But that does not
mean
that social justice does not exist here.” – So let me get this right.
You don’t want socialism, but you want socialist justice??

“I have a right not to be silenced by you or anyone else who
would prefer that the truth remain buried.” – Truth remain buried
about what? What great secret is there in Harmony? The Horse
facility?? Come on George every one does about it. It is no secret. If
you think there is “a conspiracy” then say it. You seem to be able to
talk about everything else here. Why are you being so “secretive”
about what you want regarding the “Secret no one knows Horse
facility?”
The truth is in reality, that you seem to thrive personally on trying
to upset your neighbors. But we are bigger than that George. You think
there is a Harmony “X-File”. Well maybe you should get out more and
stop watching the Sci-fi channel. There is no conspiracy, no one is
hiding anything from you or your neighbors George.
We also have a right to say shut up George!!!! You are talking
bollocks…..

" In the USA we chafe at the thought of a monarchy or a landed gentry"

- Did you know the USA spends more on items related to the British
Monarchy than any other country including the UK? Maybe in George's
world they chafe, but not the real world.

"Here, what you have is what you have earned, openly, honestly and
fairly (we hope). For some people to have what others cannot, without
regard to their merits, is simply wrong. Most Americans hold this
truth to be self-evident (among others)."

Yeah right. The Kennedy’s, the Bush's really don’t think they have
right to run the USA??? Right.
Madoff, worked his ass off yeah??? Brought down the worlds hedge fund
system.


Jim

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