can anybody commit this ?

[francesco perillo]

My dvn repository got drunk... yesterday I was able to commit, now it can't... seems a file camel case problem...

In the meanwhile, before I lose the work done, can anyone commit this patch ?

2012-06-14 13:33 UTC+0200 Francesco Perillo ( fperillo at gmail.com )
  * contrib/hbqt/qtcore/hbqt_pointer.cpp
  * contrib/hbqt/qtcore/hbqt_hbqslots.cpp
  * contrib/hbqt/qtcore/hbqt_misc.prg
    * moved all slots related functions from hbqt_pointer to
      hbqt_hbqslots
    - removed __pSlots variable and use of harbour class HBQSlots
    + partially implemented hbqt_disconnect function
    * hbqt_connect now also accepts harbour style
      (qtObject, signal, codeblock). It is the preferred way of
      making a signal/slot connection...
  - contrib/hbqt/qtcore/qth/HBQSlots.qth
  * contrib/hbqt/qtcore/qth/filelist.hbm
    * removed generated harbour HBQSlots class

[Bacco]

>       (qtObject, signal, codeblock). It is the preferred way of
>       making a signal/slot connection...

I thought that the best would be the inverse, allowing :connect() to
accept both codeblocks and other objects slots.
Why this one is the preferred?

Regards,
Bacco

[francesco perillo]

in hbqt_misc.prg, method object:connect( signal, codeBlock ) calls hbqt_connect( Self, Signal, codeBlock )

HBQT_CONNECT handles now two types of connection, one Qt based, one HB based:

Qt:  HBQT_CONNECT( object, signal, object, slot )
Everything is handled internally by Qt

HB:  HBQT_CONNECT( object, signal, codeblock )
a hidden object is used to intercept the slot call and it is forwarded to the codeblock

In the future it may have more, and we may also remove methods from HBQTOBJECTHANDLER (if we want to remove them...)

[Bacco]

The question is, why aren't those just handled by :connect() only in
the first place? Also the only addition I can imagine on this is to
accept function pointers too, but I believe that :connect() can
provide all three, no?

[francesco perillo]

:connect can handle them for sure, and it does.

From :connect I need to pass parameters to c level, otherwise HBQTOBJECTHANDLER class should be written directly in c... so I needed a HB_FUNC and hbqt_connect was already there, ready to use.

[Bacco]

> From :connect I need to pass parameters to c level, otherwise
> HBQTOBJECTHANDLER class should be written directly in c... so I needed a
> HB_FUNC and hbqt_connect was already there, ready to use.

Just asked, as you mentioned the function as "preferred", and I wanted
to know what would be the motivation, so I can keep up.

Thanks,
Bacco

[francesco perillo]

New checkout,
still problems....

Commit failed (details follow):
Server sent unexpected return value (403 Forbidden) in response to MKACTIVITY
request for '/svnroot/harbour-project/!svn/act/555224e8-8176-4048-884b-71d8d13d0f15'


Francesco

[Pritpal Bedi]

Hi

I cannot apply the patch.

Pritpal Bedi

>  patch2.patch
> 17KViewDownload

[francesco perillo]

I just checked in my sourceforge account and I have no more rights to harbour projects and I found myself in hbqt project...

Viktor, are you involved in this ?

smart move...

congratulations...

[Pritpal Bedi]

Hello Francesco

This patch, though works, sucks MT mode, and modularity.
I think we need to refactor it. Infact basic functionality remains
the same so no big advantage we get.

Pritpal Bedi

On Jun 14, 6:01 am, francesco perillo <fperi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  patch2.patch
> 17KViewDownload

[Pritpal Bedi]

Hi

> This patch, though works, sucks MT mode, and modularity.
> I think we need to refactor it. Infact basic functionality remains
> the same so no big advantage we get.

Please ignore it.
I was testing with wrong files.
Patch seems to be good and wil commit in a while
after more testings.

Pritpal Bedi

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 4:27 PM, francesco perillo <fper...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just checked in my sourceforge account and I have no more rights to
> harbour projects and I found myself in hbqt project...
>
> Viktor, are you involved in this ?
>
> smart move...
>
> congratulations...

Yes of course. I'm sorry about it, but since you just
cannot endorse anything I say, it seems better this way.
Anyhow Pritpal is blindly committing your patches, so
basically nothing will change from HBQT POV.

-- Viktor

[francesco perillo]

Wow !

clap clap...

in 2012 I commited 2 small patches and created a couple of others committed by other people...

Today I created a patch for rmoving a variable that YOU requested to be removed... going to commit... got error... since I had to leave the office I wrongly sent the *development* files to Pritpal that didn't realized that they were *devel* files and so committed the wrong ones...
development -> full of trace messages and with some tests not to be made public.


Anyway, I was not able to do my THIRD commit in six months...
...so, actually, I have been banned on.... my ideas !!

unbelievable...

[Viktor Szakáts]

> clap clap...
>
> in 2012 I commited 2 small patches and created a couple of others committed
> by other people...
>
> Today I created a patch for rmoving a variable that YOU requested to be
> removed... going to commit... got error... since I had to leave the office I

Your last stance on the question was totally ignoring and missing
my points (and Przemek's points), and I just can't read into your
mind that this means that you actually got it and working on a solution.
Though, I checked the patch and it was not something I'd commit
anyway.

> wrongly sent the *development* files to Pritpal that didn't realized that
> they were *devel* files and so committed the wrong ones...
> development -> full of trace messages and with some tests not to be made
> public.

I don't understand this complication. Seems like the usual
mess around HBQT. Ideally a patch is tested before
committing, especially when touching low-level internals.

> Anyway, I was not able to do my THIRD commit in six months...
> ...so, actually, I have been banned on.... my ideas !!

You can implement them in the separate hbqt project.

You've been unable to get on par with Harbour development,
not even with basic goals or endorsing basic stuff. You never
ask and never listen. You seem to want to learn C programming
via HBQT, which is just not the goal of an R/W account.
From your words you don't read any other commits, INSTALL
doc, or peek into any existing code. Also note that one of
your 3 patches was to revert my patch, without giving any
answers to raised valid concerns. As for the technicals.
Anyhow you're not "banned", just your R/W account revoked
until above things change. In the meanwhile it's okay to
submit patches and the only thing changed is that someone
will have to review them before committing.

Notice I have wasted an immense amount of time arguing
with you without going anywhere, told my thoughts many times,
none of them sticks, so this is my last e-mail on this topic.

-- Viktor

[francesco perillo]

Good.

Since we don't agree (*) you decide you are on the right side and revoke, without ever telling me, my rw access...

I answered your questions point by point, with technical reasons that you ignored (if I forgot to reply to a thread and you want to know the reason of something, please ask).

You are right on two points:

- I don't follow Harbour coding style
- we spent too much time exchanging messages, so I'll also stop and won't reply to the several false statements contained in your message.

for sure, I'm right on several other points.

Ciao,
Francesco

(*) for people eventually reading this thread, we actually agree more than he says

[Przemysław Czerpak]

Hi Viktor,

Even if I do not agree with someone and his ideas then it does not
mean that I will want to remove RW rights for anyone. I can imagine
some very unusual situation when someone tries to introduce some
"enemy" code to SVN i.e. violating some license agreements or
systematically breaks sth, etc. In such case we can discuss it
here and team can decide about reducing SVN access.
But for sure nothing like that has happened with Francesco.
Even if I understand your frustration then I think it was very bad
move which can kill this project soon.
Please restore Francesco SVN rights.

best regards,
Przemek

[Teo Fonrouge]

+1

[Maurizio la Cecilia]

+1

I believed this was a group of development in which all points of view could be discussed and any subsequent solution could be proposed, in a democratic way.
The aims of Francesco are good as his and Pritpal's work is trying to give a better use of hbQt waiting for a cleaner Przemek's solution.
His ideas could be of support to Przemek's analysis, also just suggesting things to be avoided.
So, please, revert the rights revocation and think in a democratic way.
Maurizio

[Francesco Saverio Giudice]

+1
Francesco

[Vito]

+1

 

Well said Przemyslaw, I couldn't say it better (at least not in such polite way).

 

Your answer is an example of polite and professional attitude. In any conversation, technical or not, "I don't like it" can't be an argument.

 

Vito

[Massimo Belgrano]

+1

2012/6/15 Vito <vitomir.c...@mcfrontis.hr>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Viktor Szakáts]

> I believed this was a group of development in which all points of view could
> be discussed and any subsequent solution could be proposed, in a democratic
> way.
> The aims of Francesco are good as his and Pritpal's work is trying to give a
> better use of hbQt waiting for a cleaner Przemek's solution.
> His ideas could be of support to Przemek's analysis, also just suggesting
> things to be avoided.

For suggesting things to avoid, there is no need for R/W rights,
nor to support Przemek's and Pritpal's analysis. So he can continue
to do it.

> So, please, revert the rights revocation and think in a democratic way.

I got tired of endless discussions and completely not getting
things. I think we need someone who understands C.

I will simply leave, if people like Francesco will just bomb
away this project like he did since he appeared here 1-2
years ago (though the bad part really only started to happen
lately, too bad I didn't notice earlier). I just cannot see how
he's able to finish HBQT in a meaningful way and he's proving
this almost every day, since a few months. My view is that
if someone is openly against basic rules and goals, he should
have no R/W rights, otherwise it will be a constant battle.

Speaking similar terms, going for the same goals is the
basic thing for group development IMO.

-- Viktor

[Viktor Szakáts]

Hi Przemek,

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Przemysław Czerpak
<dru...@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> Hi Viktor,
>
> Even if I do not agree with someone and his ideas  then it does not
> mean that I will want to remove RW rights for anyone. I can imagine
> some very unusual situation when someone tries to introduce some
> "enemy" code to SVN i.e. violating some license agreements or
> systematically breaks sth, etc. In such case we can discuss it
> here and team can decide about reducing SVN access.
> But for sure nothing like that has happened with Francesco.
> Even if I understand your frustration then I think it was very bad
> move which can kill this project soon.
> Please restore Francesco SVN rights.

This project is pretty close to be "killed" anyway, the question
is rather when and how. Francesco's involvement for sure
won't delay it, he had 3 commits, most of them wrong. Overall
Harbour is in pretty bad need of new 'talent', but it cannot attract
anybody new.

I especially miss your kind of involvement.

I don't plan to restore Francesco's R/W rights until I see him
accepting some basic things around here and stop attacking
existing contributor and each and every rules and bits, but please
feel free to readd him, or remove me for that matter, as being
here has became probably the most frustrating thing for me lately.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

Very bad pratice

are you owner of project?

Viktors is attacking existing contributor : 

all problem are born from Viktor that not alloewed   Przemek, evolve qt with hbqt2

and now not allow Francesco works

Tomorrow will remove everybody here

we are learming folowing hbqt  and is not a bit problem

The right choice was create a hbqt folder

Viktor please change your bad post

2012/6/15 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>

Hi Przemek,

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Przemysław Czerpak
<dru...@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> Hi Viktor,

I don't plan to restore Francesco's R/W rights until I see him
accepting some basic things around here and stop attacking
existing contributor and each and every rules and bits, but please
feel free to readd him, or remove me for that matter, as being
here has became probably the most frustrating thing for me lately.

-- Viktor

--
Massimo Belgrano

[francesco perillo]

Hi Viktor,
for sure I did few commits and provided some ideas or code others committed and is now working ok inside hbQt, code that was adapted to work with the new hbQt "vision".

So I don't agree with the "most of them wrong". Also I don't agree with "attacking
existing contributor and each and every rules and bits" since I don't remember to attack anybody (except you, of course :-) ) but only tried to provide infos and share (also debate) ideas.

I agree with you - as I said yesterday - that I haven't followed Harbour coding style. I will in the future.

I ask you to review my next commits for *formal* and *style* problems and in the future grant me rw status.

Is it ok for you ? If not, please give me back rw grants.

Francesco

[francesco perillo]

please calm down everybody (and thank you for your support).

I don't want that for a exchange of ideas between me and Viktor we reach a bad end...

Me, Viktor, Pritpal, Przemek, Bacco and all the friends I met here and in HMG4 project share the same goal, to have a working, stable, trustable hbQt library.

I and Viktor just disagree on how we should reach that status.

I want to be part of the development team, together with Pritpal and others who want to contribute code or just provide ideas. nyone is welcome, and we *do* need experts.

Viktor would like that only c "magicians" develop hbQt keeping me out of the process.

Francesco

[Viktor Szakáts]

And you keep your disrespectful tone... contradicting your
e-mail from 2 minutes ago. You seem to have a completely
failed assessment of ones abilities.

To make it clear I just don't want HBQT's public repository to
serve as a sandbox for anybody to learn C/C++. Commit code
there which is tested and have some level of "quality"
(not just purely "formal" and "style", but even these are far
reaching into code structuring) upon which "experts" are
willing to work, without fearing their work being destroyed by
next C/C++ crash-course commit.

This R/W thing became mostly a power struggle and from
past experiences, loudly and aggressively chasing
R/W accounts and colliding with project admins, existing
devs is the last thing that works out very well at the end.
IMO the right way is to start humble, watch and learn, submit
insanely perfect patches, let others review your work,
learn from any mistakes and eventually R/W rights will just
fly into your hands as a natural consequence.

I'd like to think Harbour is not in such deep sh*t, that R/W
rights should be granted by default for anybody, in a
desperate attempt to "save" the project. But, maybe it is
and I am wrong.

-- Viktor

[Leandro Damásio]

Massimo, I completelly disagree with you.

 

What you say here is wrong and bad. Viktor didn’t clame any property over harbour, but there is no doubt that he and Przemek are the main leaders working with few other like Mindaugas that have superior programming skills. If you don’t realize how Viktor participation on the leadership of harbour is important to the quality of Harbour, I believe you should look closer and very carefully – or move to xHarbour to (maybe) understand what I mean.

 

It is really frustrating to see how things do not work well to hbqt development despite all the human and technical resources are available. The will to participate is much important as knowledge and respect - not just one and not one more than the other. Francesco do not show respect for the guidance of people who knows better than him what has to be done to hbqt, how and why – even if it is exaustivelly explained and discussed directly to him. He also seems not to understand that following the leadership orientation is not a matter of authority, but of recognizing that the leaders of this project know somethings very well and maybe more than most of the community and the other developers. The current harbour leadership is making a beatifull job with harbour so far and it should be easy to trust their guidance once they are very attencious to the needs of harbour community. Notice that the leadership is not a right – it is a responsability. It requires to define rules, stand positions and sometimes make unpoppular choices. It is not an easy job to make and I am glad that Viktor does it well with Przemek.

 

I don’t agree that creating a new hbqt folder under harbour svn would have been the right choice. A whole new hbqt repository was created, filled and made available to current hbqt users and developers and apparently it is not good enough! The old hbqt folder under harbour could finally be used to start the new hbqt from scratch, with all the care to the proper design and the participation of harbour internals and C gurus. Everything should be working just fine to all the interested parts, but it simply doesn’t. Why? Because are the egos of some and the comodity of others are more important than all the racional arguments that were discussed until now.

 

In my humble oppinion, this kind of behavior is bad to the project and should not be encouraged.

 

Leandro

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Massimo Belgrano <mbel...@deltain.it> wrote:
> Very bad pratice
> are you owner of project?

I'm an admin of Harbour's sf.net site:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/harbour-project/

I'm also a frequent contributor.

> Viktors is attacking existing contributor :
> all problem are born from Viktor that not alloewed   Przemek, evolve qt with
> hbqt2

Anybody with an R/W right can create "hbqt2",
but you can't expect me to actively support
something I strongly don't believe in, even less
so if I would have to maintain it.

> and now not allow Francesco works

I allow anybody to "work". There are many ways
to work, someone may work here, may work in
other repos, may submit patches, may contribute
with clear and bright ideas, may contribute with
testing, reports, docs, support. SVN R/W right is
not a requirement for contribution, not even code
contribution, nor in Harbour, neither in general.
Please remember it's not a "title". It's a helper tool
for group development and it shows a level of
trust from admins and existing devs towards another
dev. Trust needs to be built and trust can be lost.

BTW with GIT, someone without R/W access
to a project can simply fork with one click and
continue to patch his own copy. He might even
submit better patches as pull requests.

> Tomorrow will remove everybody here

Note - though I had created it -, I don't have any control
over this mailing list now, so even in the nonsense case
you try to attribute to me, I couldn't do it. But, just as
adding new members and deleting spam and other
activities you like and accept without even thinking about
it, it's an admin's responsibility to delete members and
few other unpleasant jobs.

> we are learming folowing hbqt  and is not a bit problem

Indeed. I learned A LOT watching clever contributors
in Harbour's history, this is one of the highest blessings
of this project. But, one can learn best from someone
who has better skills.

-- Viktor

[francesco perillo]

Hi Leandro,
I think to have respect everybody, if it doesn't show I'm sorry. Probably I'm eating too much meat (due to diet) and I'm getting aggresive. Sorry fot this.

I've been asking for help, ideas, guidance for almost one year, and nobody helped.

Finally, about 2 months ago, Przemek gave us some ideas together with some code. He also kindly added some code to Harbour repository that makes his ideas possible !

At the beginning I didn't agree to how object should be parented but when I received a clear reason I accepted it. From that moment I never went back.
I also wrote some message telling Przemek that his ideas will be fine for one kind of Qt objects but for others we should need some other implementations. Some people told me that with my messages I made Przemek "run away", instead he answered to my questions providing possible solutions and also code !!!

Przemek stated twice to create a hbQt2 directory to start this new development, without adding who, when, how (from scratch or copying existing hbQt) to develop it.

While I spent my little free time exchanging email to not have hbQt deleted from repository (for respect to hbQt users), Pritpal implemented Przemek code and ideas into hbQt and I helped him when I could.

Then a little "flame" started with Viktor, not on real problems of hbQt but how the project should go further, that I should not commit anymore and he also created a ghetto-project on sourceforge revoking my rw grants.

Then he commited a change in hbQt, switching a DATA member to PROTECTED... and hbQt stopped working. I spent 2 hours trying to keep that member PROTECTED then I admitted I was not able to solve the problem, posted the code and asked for help. Nobody answered to my request. So I did revert Viktor patch. It broke hbQt and people started complaining on the mailing list to hbQt developers...  what should I do ?
Finally Przemek confirmed that the members were PUBLIC "by design"  - by the way Przemek is the author of the c code that uses that members...


So, please, tell me when and where I did not had "respect for the guidance of people who knows better than him (me) what has to be done to hbqt, how and why".

Francesco

[Massimo Belgrano]

2012/6/15 Leandro Damásio <te...@2dinfo.com.br>

Massimo, I completelly disagree with you.

and i disagree with you , but no personal problem

 

What you say here is wrong and bad. Viktor didn’t clame any property over harbour, but there is no doubt that he and Przemek are the main leaders working with few other like Mindaugas that have superior programming skills. If you don’t realize how Viktor participation on the leadership of harbour is important to the quality of Harbour, I believe you should look closer and very carefully – or move to xHarbour to (maybe) understand what I mean.

Viktor  participation is important for the quality of Harbour

Other VIktor post destroy harbour project (move to separate repository hbqt,remove user,ecc)

 

It is really frustrating to see how things do not work well to hbqt development despite all the human and technical resources are available. The will to participate is much important as knowledge and respect - not just one and not one more than the other. Francesco do not show respect for the guidance of people who knows better than him what has to be done to hbqt, how and why – even if it is exaustivelly explained and discussed directly to him.

IMO Francesco give his contribution

I don''t see Nothing of bad 

 

He also seems not to understand that following the leadership orientation is not a matter of authority, but of recognizing that the leaders of this project know somethings very well and maybe more than most of the community and the other developers.

 

The current harbour leadership is making a beatifull job with harbour so far and it should be easy to trust their guidance once they are very attencious to the needs of harbour community. Notice that the leadership is not a right – it is a responsability. It requires to define rules, stand positions and sometimes make unpoppular choices. It is not an easy job to make and I am glad that Viktor does it well with Przemek.

When Viktor made choice undemocratic it made bad  decision for harbour people

when Viktor not follow Przemek indication (see recent hbrun/hbmk2 or svn right )

 

 

I don’t agree that creating a new hbqt folder under harbour svn would have been the right choice. A whole new hbqt repository was created, filled and made available to current hbqt users and developers and apparently it is not good enough! The old hbqt folder under harbour could finally be used to start the new hbqt from scratch, with all the care to the proper design and the participation of harbour internals and C gurus. Everything should be working just fine to all the interested parts, but it simply doesn’t. Why? Because are the egos of some and the comodity of others are more important than all the racional arguments that were discussed until now.

 imo hbqt2 is the right solution  also because only Przemek can resolve this situation

 

 

In my humble oppinion, this kind of behavior is bad to the project and should not be encouraged.

This is what i think about last month of Viktor post

but , Leandro , we have a common intrest so we need a solution

were can harbour project found motivation to give right evolution and collaboration?

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Leandro Damásio]

Hi Fancesco

>I think to have respect everybody, if it doesn't show I'm sorry. Probably
>I'm eating too much meat (due to diet) and I'm getting aggresive. Sorry fot
>this.

I don't accept your apologies because of your sarcasm. You clearly don't
recognize and value respect.

>I've been asking for help, ideas, guidance for almost one year, and nobody
>helped.

You should ask yourself why.

>Finally, about 2 months ago, Przemek gave us some ideas together with some
>code. He also kindly added some code to Harbour repository that makes his
>ideas possible !
>
>At the beginning I didn't agree to how object should be parented but when I
>received a clear reason I accepted it. From that moment I never went back.
>I also wrote some message telling Przemek that his ideas will be fine for
>one kind of Qt objects but for others we should need some other
>implementations. Some people told me that with >my messages I made Przemek
>"run away", instead he answered to my questions providing possible
>solutions and also code !!!
>
>Przemek stated twice to create a hbQt2 directory to start this new
>development, without adding who, when, how (from scratch or copying
>existing hbQt) to develop it.

Yes, and Viktor numbered many practical reasons why there is no need to keep
two versions of hbqt under harbour svn if just one of will stay. The
separate repository created specially to hbqt would have solved any needs of
Przemek, current hbqt users and current hbqt developers. You just ignored
the benefits of a separate hbqt repository to start a fight because you
don't want it to be resolved this way. Now there are posts mentioning
"democracy" where simple technical reasons should count. I really don't see
anything good coming from this.

>While I spent my little free time exchanging email to not have hbQt deleted
>from repository (for respect to hbQt users),

Sorry, I don't believe that. You could still manifest your respect to hbqt
users in the separate hbqt repository.

>Pritpal implemented Przemek code and ideas into hbQt and I helped
>him when I could.

It is very good that you and Pritpal can learn from Przemek's proposal
general lines to make current hbqt code better, but that is not the whole
picture! Przemek also proposed to restart the design from clear base code to
top and this is pretty much the opposite of what you have been doing! Can't
you realize that? You are not working on the new hbqt. You just don't let
the old go to see something new and better arise. That is a pitty.

>Then he commited a change in hbQt, switching a DATA member to PROTECTED...
>and hbQt stopped working. I spent 2 hours trying to keep that member
>PROTECTED then I admitted I was >not able to solve the problem, posted the
>code and asked for help. Nobody answered to my request. So I did revert
>Viktor patch. It broke hbQt and people started complaining on the mailing
> >list to hbQt developers...

I don't see the relevance of this kind of detail.

>what should I do ?

If really you don't know, read again to Viktors posts on the topic and you
may find very usefull information there, but once you are asking me, I
suggest you stop being so territorial about current hbqt or assume your own
territory in a separate repository. It will be a win win.

>Finally Przemek confirmed that the members were PUBLIC "by design" - by
>the way Przemek is the author of the c code that uses that members...
>So, please, tell me when and where I did not had "respect for the guidance
>of people who knows better than him (me) what has to be done to hbqt, how
>and why".

I believe I already answered to this.

Regards,
Leandro

[Massimo Belgrano]

2012/6/15 Leandro Damásio <te...@2dinfo.com.br>

Hi Fancesco

I think to have respect everybody, if it doesn't show I'm sorry. Probably I'm eating too much meat (due to diet) and I'm getting aggresive. Sorry fot this.

I don't accept your apologies because of your sarcasm. You clearly don't recognize and value respect.

This is clear only for you

 we must understand that we all here are not native English speaking

so is like the children's games of  phone whiteout cable

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Leandro Damásio]

Hi Massimo,

>>Massimo, I completelly disagree with you.
>
>and i disagree with you , but no personal problem
>>What you say here is wrong and bad. Viktor didn’t clame any property over
>>harbour, but there is no doubt that he and Przemek are the main leaders
>>working with few other like Mindaugas >>that have superior programming
>>skills. If you don’t realize how Viktor participation on the leadership of
>>harbour is important to the quality of Harbour, I believe you should look
>>closer and >>very carefully – or move to xHarbour to (maybe) understand
>>what I mean.
>
>Viktor participation is important for the quality of Harbour
>Other VIktor post destroy harbour project (move to separate repository
>hbqt,remove user,ecc)

This is plain overstatement.

>>It is really frustrating to see how things do not work well to hbqt
>>development despite all the human and technical resources are available.
>>The will to participate is much important as >>knowledge and respect - not
>>just one and not one more than the other. Francesco do not show respect
>>for the guidance of people who knows better than him what has to be done
>>to hbqt, >>how and why – even if it is exaustivelly explained and
>>discussed directly to him.
>
>IMO Francesco give his contribution
>I don''t see Nothing of bad

Apparently you do not sepparate participation and contribuition. This little
*war* doesn't help anyone or bring any good. I recognize that Francesco
gives many contribuitions, but not all participations are contribuitions.

>When Viktor made choice undemocratic it made bad decision for harbour
>people

I don't see this decision as a violation of any democracy principle.

>when Viktor not follow Przemek indication (see recent hbrun/hbmk2 or svn
>right )

This is the only polemic on the mailing list currently. Al the rest seems
purely technical to me.

> imo hbqt2 is the right solution also because only Przemek can resolve
> this situation

Why? What problems could be solved by creating a new hbqt2 folder inside
harbour svn tree and instead of using a sepparate repository do current hbqt
code that is destined to not be part of harbour anymore in a near future?

Regards,
Leandro

[francesco perillo]

Hi Leandro,
I don't want to carry on starting a new flame with you, but I asked to not remove hbQt from svn *until a new working hbQt is ready*. It's different from not remove at all.

As per today, 15 June 2012, 19:00 GMT+2, the only "working" (+ or -) hbQt is the one present in SVN.

It is used by several people here and several in HMG4 and other projects. HMG4 users use nigthly build and don't have Qt sdk installed. As per Viktor request, "users" of hbQt library must not have Qt sdk installed.

If you remove hbQt from svn, hbQt "users" must transform into hbQt "developers" installing Qt sdk and keep in sync harbour and hbQt. No great problem, but they must be alerted of this change. And infact I proposed to plan a switch giving them some time to adapt and test.

Or should they upgrade their nightly build to discover hbQt was removed ?


Anyway, I don't have now, and I never had, any power on hbQt, it's not my territory and everyone is welcome to join the project and commit changes (not delete the directory, of course :-) ).


Since I'm a person that always wants to become "better" and not the bad one you think I am, if you think that I didn't get answers to my questions because I asked in the wrong way, please contact me in private, I will be happy to hear !

Francesco

[Leandro Damásio]

>

>but , Leandro , we have a common intrest so we need a solution

>

>were can harbour project found motivation to give right evolution and collaboration?

 

Massimo, I don’t see a straight ahead answer to your question. You put together two subjects that not always serve the same master: one is the supposed need to find people motivated to colaborate to harbour, the other is the “right evolution” that I understand as the constant need to prommote the change to a better state, ok?

Most probably, to follow the right direction is the best way to find people interested in using and contribuiting to harbour, but the opposite is surelly false.

Abdicating the observation of best practices is surelly not a good strategy to motivate contribuition.

Regards,

Leandro

 

[Leandro Damásio]

Hi Francesco,

>I don't want to carry on starting a new flame with you, but I asked to not remove hbQt from svn *until a new working hbQt is ready*. It's different from not remove at all.
>
>As per today, 15 June 2012, 19:00 GMT+2, the only "working" (+ or -) hbQt is the one present in SVN.

 

That must be because nobody cared to chek and fix whathever needed to be fixed (if any) at the the separated hbqt repository created to keep current hbqt version development independent from harbour development.

>It is used by several people here and several in HMG4 and other projects. HMG4 users use nigthly build and don't have Qt sdk installed. As per Viktor request, "users" of hbQt library must not have Qt sdk installed.
>
>If you remove hbQt from svn, hbQt "users" must transform into hbQt "developers" installing Qt sdk and keep in sync harbour and hbQt. No great problem, but they must be alerted of this change. And infact I >proposed to plan a switch giving them some time to adapt and test.

 

What about offering nightly hbqt builds with Qt SDK from the brand new hbqt repository? I cannot see any fatal consequences. From users point of view, isnt’ it enough to put qt dlls under path and point hbqt.qtc so can hbmk2 link his application to hbqt?

>Or should they upgrade their nightly build to discover hbQt was removed ?

Sounds fair. There is more than 30 days that this new hbqt version/model is under discussion. Nobody can depend seriously on harbour nightly builds without to read the development mailing list and expect to have no surprises.

>Anyway, I don't have now, and I never had, any power on hbQt, it's not my territory and everyone is welcome to join the project and commit changes (not delete the directory, of course :-) ).

Why not? What is important is the content of the directory and it is still available to be used and developed in a new repository.

>Since I'm a person that always wants to become "better" and not the bad one you think I am,

 

Good for you!

 

> if you think that I didn't get answers to my questions because I asked in the wrong way, please

>contact me in private, I will be happy to hear !

Thanks, but there would be no point to do that. I just want to see harbour dealing with qt wrapping with the same highly trustable level of quality and simplicity it deals with other important parts of the project.

 

Regards,

Leandro

[Massimo Belgrano]

I request to every body

stop post on this flame

and give attention  to Technical question

Thanks

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Leandro Damásio]

you can’t be serious Massimo

please, tell me you are joking

 

From: Massimo Belgrano

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 4:12 PM

To: harbou...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [harbour] Re: can anybody commit this ?

[Viktor Szakáts]

>>> I think to have respect everybody, if it doesn't show I'm sorry. Probably
>>> I'm eating too much meat (due to diet) and I'm getting aggresive. Sorry fot
>>> this.
>>
>>
>> I don't accept your apologies because of your sarcasm. You clearly don't
>> recognize and value respect.
>
>
> This is clear only for you
>  we must understand that we all here are not native English speaking
> so is like the children's games of  phone whiteout cable

There is no frequent poster who is also a native English
speaker since quite a long time on this list, so this applies
to nearly everyone here.

If someone is not confortable enough to express complex
thoughts in this chosen common language 1) express less
complicated thoughts in simple language 2) put extra effort
in trying to express more complex thoughts clearly 3) not
express his opinion 4) deal with the consequences of any
of the above, and of course 5) make corrections, if necessary.

Unfortunately it is a true trade-off and it's a very practical one.
But to cover oneself with bad English and pointing to this
as possible reason for misunderstandings each time things
go haywire: it's just looking for excuses. Like in this case
and several similar ones in the past.

On the other hand, Harbour would not exist as it is now, if
it would have been limited to a non-international audience.

So like SVN, ANSI C and Clipper compatibility, English is
a "fact of life" to accept if someone wants to participate.

[ disclaimer: I'm also not native English speaker, and
trying to enhance my English gradually since quite a long
time, like many others. ]

-- Viktor

[Luigi Ferraris]

Hi to everyone.

I think we should all be less angry, respect the views, but above all:
"restore the peace".

Everyone can make mistakes or pursuing totally different ideas.

I understand that discussions involving continuous time, but close the
access is like raising a wall.

Best regards

Luigi