WTF
DogBot
life I have ever said that so many times as I try to understand
something new.
It all starts when I see this cool video about coding for blueprint. A
framework ...Compass......The idea rocks! so Im like..lets get
this..but then it says I need SASS...hmmm ok...another framework???
hmmm WTF...fine lets get that too!! wait..IT says that I need
Haml..WTF??? ok what is that...dont know..another
framework...ok ...fine...let's get that too.....WAIT...it runs on
Ruby??huh? WTF??? ok lets see what that is all about....hmmm..a
programming language!!!WTF!!!...not for windows..WTF!!!!.kinda for
macs..WTF..but hey It has a WIN distribution after all..ok lets get
that..the instructions are like "just ruby install/done" WTF???
where??? I download install a webpage opens..it's effing broken..where
do I put "ruby install/done"..after a day I figure out I have to use
windows command promt!!! WTF!!!!
ok this this ruby is finally working..it like a server or something,
WTF..it is running..now I need a GEM??WTF!!!!! something about Ruby on
Rails..multiple versions some older that others I am getting a massive
headache.......
back to the haml site one way or another it seems I need something
called EMACS..WTF..!!!!! I dare you to install it and see how many
WTFsss you will say....it's like some text editor that is so smart
that you dont use the mouse dont even use the cursor keys..if you want
to go back one character you hit control then B!!! Brilliant!!! two
random keys instead of one with an arrow!!!!WWWTTTFFFF!! ok I might
not need this crap.... lost a day learning to use the Rubik cube of
text editors. back to haml. back to sass. back to compass.
Install:
sudo gem install compass
WHAT THE
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
where do I put that??!!!!!!!
Nathan Weizenbaum
I'm very sorry you found Sass and Compass hard to install. We try to do our best to guide people through the installation process as easily as possible, but this isn't always easy for people who don't already have Ruby installed.
In the future, we intend to provide a single-download graphical installer for Sass and Compass, but until then we welcome input on our installation instructions. Was http://ruby-lang.org not clear about how to install Ruby on Windows? Where did you get the impression that you needed to install Emacs? That's certainly not required.
Thanks for taking the time to provide input!
- Nathan Weizenbaum
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Bradley Grzesiak
"What? That can't be," someone said.
"It is. In fact, it describes the lift of any 2-D body in an incompressible fluid," he stated.
Span-wise lift equals the negative fluid density times the free-flow velocity times the circulation.
We then spent the next few classes of this aerodynamics class learning the proof behind this incredibly simple equation. We dove into Taylor expansions, Green's Theorem, and (if I recall correctly) Laplacian Transforms. Once we got done, we each had a number of pages that fully decomposed this simple equation into something that was finally intuitively provable. We then spent another couple weeks applying the formula to various shapes as point vortices and finally panel vortices.
I bring this all up because it took me a long time in school to get to the point where I could even keep up with the professor. Even though the equation looked simple, showing that it actually meant something took a ton of effort.
Blueprint is great. Compass is awesome. Haml, as far as I'm concerned, absolutely rocks. But I say this as someone who has spent years making my way to the point where I can read the "quick start" guide and simply go. When I found out about Haml, Sass, Compass, and Blueprint, I had already made it 95% of the way there. I already knew linux, os x, ruby, rails, etc. I had, in effect, taken all of the pre-requisites for something like an Aerodynamics class.
DogBot, you're not there yet, but I wish you the best. When you get stuck, ask for help from friends, IRC, mailing lists... whatever is at your disposal. If you stay positive and open your mind like a sponge, you'll get there with the help of your persistence and various communities.
I'm not intending to "talk down" to anyone... just trying to explain that something may look simple at first blush, but there's bound to be plenty of knowledge required to work with it correctly.
Best,
:brad
PS: As someone who doesn't use Windows for development, I can't help you with installation issues. I can say, however, that you can work with any non-rich-text text editor (eg: notepad, notepad++, scite, etc). Also, rails is not necessary for sass, but you'll likely find the most documentation (and community members) relating the two.
PPS: Emacs navigation keys are neat once you get them into muscle memory. I navigate most text fields in os x with them.
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Bradley Grzesiak
co-founder, bendyworks llc
http://bendyworks.com/
DogBot
the few others like me here it is:
1. the ruby site: even though the very first item on the main menu
says "downloads"..(I just noticed that) somehow that is not where I
looked (home is generally there) and there is no other download on
that page except for something about the latest release which is a zip
file that I did not know not what to do with. somehow most of the help
I found hat to do with Macs. Still after i figured out how to install
it..nothing happens..there is no interface, or programming
environment..I was lost..so I fugured I trace back and just install
everything..First stop Haml:
Quote:"Most people will just want the standard stable Haml gem. To
install this:
sudo gem install haml"
Tha is all it says...I started on google and found that the developer
of Haml uses emacs or maintains a hmls related script for it, but it
sounded like this was the ticket perhaps were "sudo gem install haml"
turns out is just a bunch of snippets for a text editor from hell.
I am now at a complete and absolute loss as to where to put the magic
phrase "sudo gem install haml" and my personal holy grail:"sudo gem
install compass" and even then..I KNOW I will be staring at an empty
screen in the knowledge that like ruby..it is there..in my computer
waiting for my clever commands that will never come as I have no idea
where to put them!!!!
Glenn Rempe
Brad).
DogBot. It seems all you wanted to do was use the BluePrint CSS
framework.
You don't *need* **any** of what you experimented with to use
BluePrint. Just go to:
And here's a bonus quick start guide.
http://wiki.github.com/joshuaclayton/blueprint-css/quick-start-tutorial
I would normally assume that you at least know HTML and CSS (therefore
your interest in BluePrint in the first place), but after reading your
post I'm not so sure. I did find it funny though, albeit in a sad
sort of way, kind of like watching a puppy mistakenly eat its own
poop. Now *that* makes me say WTF?!
Good luck.
G
PS - Did you pick the HAML google group for your WTF post randomly out
of the five plus frameworks and tools that baffled you? I'm sure
these guys would have enjoyed your WTF post as well:
DogBot
I do make websites for a living, some with some pretty nifty
functionality but I do it mostly without too much knowledge of the
"guts" of the technology, I get it done on the brains of geniouses who
have developed such nifty tools that brain dead guys like me can just
ride for an easy paycheck! Why did I pick this forum?..well at some
random point I felt I just needed to vent in an angry non-productive
but highly satisfying way.
Actualy my post started out as:
where do I put this command:
sudo gem install haml
Thank you
Then I added WTF somwhere and well....I feel kind of embarrassed
now...
Still my original question remains:where do I put "sudo gem install
haml"?
Ruby is installed on my machine...I am pretty sure.
Thanks
Eric Meyer
sitting next to me the entire time, walking me through it - worth
every minute. Also I'm on osx, which solves half the problems you've
hit. It is a problem for those of us without unix/dev experience - and
a result of this still being a fairly young tool.
I would love to see more docs that don't assume I know my way around
the command line. At this point I'm starting to learn, but it is a
rather large and unnecessary barrier to the community up-front. I
think that issue's been discussed around here plenty, and probably
doesn't need a lot of re-hashing.
Cheers all,
-e
Jacques Crocker
gem install haml
If it doesnt work, then fix your local ruby installation so rubygems is available. If it works, then you're one step closer on a still very long path to understanding what you truly seek.
On a related topic, the whole "sudo gem" thing. I've come around recently to the idea that is a big mistake whenever anyone runs "sudo gem" anything. Lets get the docs fixed up... no more needlessly encouraging "sudo gem" to people! RVM has turned me over to the joys of having nice portable user level gem installations.
Lorin Tackett
Take "sudo" off though, that's a UNIX/Linux thing. So just use `gem install haml`.
As a warning, your mileage may vary on Windows. I have no idea how much effort has been rolled into supporting Windows. I ended up using Cygwin when I needed to use Haml/Sass in a Windows environment, but that was a few years ago.
I hope that helps, but I'm equally convinced that you're actually looking for Blueprint, and not Compass, Haml or Sass.
Keep reading and learning, it's a pretty steep incline for someone unfamiliar with the tools, but it's totally worth it. Good luck!
-Lorin
On Jan 18, 2010, at 9:29 PM, DogBot wrote:
DogBot
I finally figured this out.No need for further responses. Nathan
thanks for you calm and professionalism in the face of a ranting
lunatic it helped me retrace my steps and along with the perspective
provided by Bradley I did not let the material overwhelm me.
You are right Glenn I do not need any of this for my aims, I am
already developing with blueprint and that also made me less anxious.
So suddenly I got it and now I have compass!!!! It might have been
random but I'm glad i picked this group to rant.
Charles Roper
and a great insight into a user's first-time experience with both Ruby
and Haml/Sass/Compass. DogBot, I found your original post a genuine
laugh out loud read. I think we've all felt like that over the years.
I remember trying to work out how to build a form mailer way back in
the mid-90's. I'd barely grasped HTML and there I was faced with this
mishmash of complex sounding weirdness such as "CGI", "Sendmail",
"Perl", "Server Site Scripting"... Ah, I remember the pain well. It
took a while, but I got the hang of most of it in the end (not Perl,
mind; I ended up using ASP classic, because I found that I was on a
Windows server, not Unix.)
So anyway, I'd just like to confirm here that Haml/Sass/Compass and
the vast majority of other Ruby tools run absolutely fine on Windows.
There is a tendency within the Ruby community to assume a user is on
*nix or Mac; it's definitely a scene dominated by non-Windows
platforms. But, despite that bias, Ruby works extremely well on
Windows, particularly with the new RubyInstaller (see below). You just
have to remember to ignore "sudo" when you're confronted with a
command like "sudo gem install haml". FYI, sudo is somewhat akin to
triggering UAC on Vista/Windows 7; however, you don't need to have
admin privileges to install gems on Windows and therefore you can just
run "gem install haml" from the command line.
I help out with the RubyInstaller project, which aims to provide an
easy-to-use and intuitive installer for Ruby on Windows and also
improve compatibility. Unfortunately, it's not had a major public
release yet. Here's the temporary website:
You may have already used the RubyInstaller, but if you haven't I'd
encourage you to try it. It comes with Ruby itself, plus some
documentation and a shortcut to the command line you need to run in
order to 'access' Ruby. There's also an equally friendly mailing list
(linked on the site). Questions specific to Ruby on Windows are always
welcomed there, and we especially welcome feedback on the whole
RubyInstaller experience.
Just be sure to stick to version 1.8 for now. Version 1.9 still has
many gems that don't work, so it's best to avoid that for the time
being, unless you really know you need it.
Regarding editors for Ruby on Windows, I recommend E Text Editor or
Notepad++. E is particularly good for working with Sass/Compass/Haml
because it has syntax highlighting (called Bundles) you can easily
download from within the application.
http://e-texteditor.com/
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/
If you want something with more bells and whistles, I've heard good
things about RubyMine:
http://www.jetbrains.com/ruby/
The nice thing about RubyMine is that Sass support is built in, so I
think you can just install it and get going.
Give me a shout if you need any further Windows specific help. :)
Charles
Enrique Gimenez
Late as well! Time zones I guess...
Actually, I feel kinda responsible for this. Months ago I wrote to the group with a similar (though less funny) story. I too felt that the docs had too many non-explicit prerequisites to be read and understood properly. So I volunteered to improve the UX aspect of the documentation, or so to speak.
I then created the "Haml Training Group" list, and began sketching, but abandoned the project almost immediately due to very impelling personal reasons. Sorry about that, DogBot! I'm pretty sure that you would have suffered a lot less had I followed thru.
And thanks for your email! It shows the need is still there. So I pledge to pick up the work in February...
My apologies and appreciation to all of you,
Chepi
@charlesroper: Great links!
Hampton
After this message, I have spent the entire day (its GMT here.. so its evening)
making a GUI for Sass for people who don't want to deal with Ruby.
And... its FREAKING WORKING.
Check out the screen shot:
http://img.skitch.com/20100119-eg56b6k9283971k26nkricg3uc.png
It needs more tweaking... but I can basically only blow today on it. Aka, I'm
taking patches from forks!
Its split between JS and Ruby and HTML. So, yeah... good skills to have.
Built off Appcelerator and so you can go grab that if you want to play with it.
It polls every second right now in all of the directories that you have added
and looks for changes.
Stuff to do:
* Store the folders so that if you close the app, they will come back
* Improve the growl messages
* Fix the crash that happens with two folders
* Give a decent notice when the sass file doesn't compile correctly.
The "Update" button is just there for people who are debugging stuff
and want to *know* it got updated.
Git link:
http://github.com/hcatlin/sass
ENJOY!
Amy L
http://rendera.heroku.com/
Richard Aday
own bundled gem? It seems that now with SCSS coming out the compilers
will have nothing in common (except for backwards compatibility)
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DogBot
annonced I was ok. I decided to just scratch the whole thing and go
with Charles suggestions. Pretty good! I got the e editor too (having
small problems not in the scope of this forum)
But overall I have made my first project and feeling good about it.
I was thinking of writing a newbie's guide now that the horror is
fresh in my mind so Enrique if you need some help let me know.
I laughed when I read Hampton's email. I thought cool! lets get
this..wait..I need Appcelerator ..what is that? well you know what
came next!!! ha ha ha
Cool community you all got here, I think I will stick around. I just
discovered the Compass group..still glad I posted here.
Jacques, Erin and Lorin, very helpful stuff, thanks
Alex
Dogbot.info
Hampton
It would be like... just a regular windows application!
NO DEPENDENCIES.
Promise.
Noel
Sent from my iPhone
DogBot
everywhere...nothing downloads I keep getting pages with code. Same
thing with some text editors I'm trying.... the haml/sass/compass
higligting/coding etc are in this github but for the life of me I
cannot figure how to download anything from there.
I don't know what happened all of a sudden..i was happy, designing,
programming, Livin la vida HTML..when all of a sudden I am a frickin
dinosaur..overnight!! is like I was in a damn cave or something. For
the past three days I feel like my mom must feel in front of an
ATM..you know it must be damm easy, a little kid just walked up and
got money, but you just stare not knowing even what question to
ask.....except I don have a teller to give hell to....
DogBot..Should change username to Old DogBot (stressing with the new
tricks)
> > haml+uns...@googlegroups.com <haml%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
Noel
love reading your posts.
Git is a source code version control system. Github is a site where
developers can share code with one another.
So these git commends are run from the command line and require and
WTF tool namely Git :)
Good luck,
Noel
PS. the tool Hampton is developing would be a "simple" executable
which you would just download and run, no other tools to install, etc.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to haml+uns...@googlegroups.com.
Charles Roper
> Same
> thing with some text editors I'm trying.... the haml/sass/compass
> higligting/coding etc are in this github but for the life of me I
> cannot figure how to download anything from there.
DogBot, if you're using E Text Editor, select the Bundles menu, then
Edit Bundles > Manage Bundles. Look for Ruby Sass, click on it, then
click Install.
You might need to manually switch to Sass syntax mode: Edit > Syntax >
Ruby Sass (or hit Alt-Win-Shift-S).
Your Sass code should now be highlighted. You might want to choose a
different colour scheme (Theme) too: Edit > Edit Theme. I recommend
DobDark, which is my own custom theme and is tailored to
HTML/CSS/Ruby/Sass/Haml in particular, although it works well with
most others such as PHP.
Charles
P.S. I've just realised I haven't uploaded a Haml bundle to the
bundles manager (I mostly get my stuff directly from Github). If you
like, I'll add a Haml bundle ... ?
DogBot
WTF indeed. But I get git now. Truly thanks. After another hour of
screencasts (I dont'watch TV anymore, just the Command Line channel) I
realized that what I needed to start with was the "git for
windows"(hint: is mentioned in the learn git page but alas no
link..that would be too easy) In the process I also learned about SVN
and tortoise (something else that had me vexed for other semi-related
reasons)and marveled at the irony of the large amount of codes,
languages and secret handshakes I now have learned to avoid coding
(that was the point of getting Compass in the first place..lazyness).
Oh well, at least I don't feel so much like a dad crashing his son's
frat party anymore.
Charles that was INCREDIBLY helpful. Instant gratification. Closest
thing to nerd porn in a long time. Love dobdark, I want to make a
website based on that scheme. In fact I am going to make an
insignificant change to the scheme an call it dogbark
Hampton..dude...I got the your stuff from git. Its a bunch of files. I
click on all of them..nothing happens (one launches e-text in XML
mode) Sounds like you worked hard on it and it is very cool so I'd
like to make the effort. Do I need apcelerator? and if so. could you
give me a step-by-step? remember to speak to me as if I was that
Japanese guy who was hiding in the jungle since WW2.
DogBot
On Jan 20, 2:51 am, Charles Roper <reac...@charlesroper.co.uk> wrote:
> 2010/1/20 DogBot <alejo.col...@gmail.com>:
DogBot
thanks.
Dogbot
Richard Aday
Just a thought :)
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Enrique Gimenez
And yes, I believe I could use that newbie guide you mentioned, DogBot...
chepi
Chris Eppstein
DogBot
RedHat over the years and considered it. But after all I have read and
learned during these last few days it is beginning to dawn on me that
the place to be for cutting edge web development is my first and true
love..The Mac. (my last mac was a Performa..that is a looooong time
ago) which incidentally now combines mac, unix and intel(and thus
windows)
I have so much invested on the win platform though that it will be
difficult, starting with a CS4 master suite and a Bridge based
workflow (can one "side-grade" software to another platform??hmmmm)
and a million more things....
But I am considering it.
I might install Linux on a VM, and try development there...what
flavor do you recommend?
Chepi, I am working on it will have a draft on here soon
Dog
Richard Aday
I myself have a Mac at home and recommend it. If that's what you want over Linux, go for it! Mac has a command line as well since it is based off of Unix.
Anyways, if you do decide to try Linux, I would recommend the latest version of Ubuntu.
-Richard
On Jan 20, 4:16 pm, Chris Eppstein <ch...@eppsteins.net> wrote:
> Better advice: Buy a mac. It's got unix underneath and a nice UI.
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Richard Aday <richard.a...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > DogBot, instead of learning how to use the tools on Windows, you could
> > spend your time installing Linux and learning the Command Line. Then you
> > can follow all the *nix documentation.
>
> > Just a thought :)
>
>
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/haml?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > -Richard Aday
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Haml" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to ha...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Noel
second choice Ubuntu, which you can try from a live CD (I know Live
CD, WTF, but should be simple to figure that one out). Actually works
really well relative to where Linux distributions were years ago and
their UI takes queues from Mac.
Amy
I consider myself to be technology agnostic: if your current setup
fits your normal workflow then stick with it. For the cost of a Mac
your could instead get a Linux slice on a web host. Then you have a
dev environment AND an identical production env. That will make some
deployments faster.
-- Amy
On Jan 20, 2010, at 16:23, DogBot <alejo....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll tell you what, Richard....I have taken a glance at Ubuntu and
> RedHat over the years and considered it. But after all I have read and
> learned during these last few days it is beginning to dawn on me that
> the place to be for cutting edge web development is my first and true
> love..The Mac. (my last mac was a Performa..that is a looooong time
> ago) which incidentally now combines mac, unix and intel(and thus
> windows)
>
> I have so much invested on the win platform though that it will be
> difficult, starting with a CS4 master suite and a Bridge based
> workflow (can one "side-grade" software to another platform??hmmmm)
> and a million more things....
>
> But I am considering it.
>
> I might install Linux on a VM, and try development there...what
> flavor do you recommend?
>
> Chepi, I am working on it will have a draft on here soon
>
> Dog
>
>
> On Jan 20, 4:16 pm, Chris Eppstein <ch...@eppsteins.net> wrote:
>> Better advice: Buy a mac. It's got unix underneath and a nice UI.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Richard Aday
>> <richard.a...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> DogBot, instead of learning how to use the tools on Windows, you
>>> could
>>> spend your time installing Linux and learning the Command Line.
>>> Then you
>>> can follow all the *nix documentation.
>>
>>> Just a thought :)
>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 12:49 PM, DogBot <alejo.col...@gmail.com>
>>>> haml+uns...@googlegroups.com <haml
>>>> %2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
>>
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/haml?hl=en.
>>
>>> --
>>> -Richard Aday
>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> "Haml" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to ha...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> haml+uns...@googlegroups.com <haml
>>> %2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
Charles Roper
I'm agnostic too and have used all versions of Windows, some versions
of Mac OS X and pre OS X, and a couple of flavours of Linux. All have
their pros and cons:
Windows: Great choice of inexpensive but variable quality hardware and
variable quality software, but not a *nix ecosystem. It's also kind of
uncool to be on Windows these days; it lacks geek-cred.
Linux: Harder to use than both Win and OS X (but getting better all
the time), lots of free software of variable quality, a great
community, and it's Linux. You don't get things like Adobe CS, though,
which is one of the primary reasons I haven't switched to Ubuntu full
time.
Mac: Good choice of high quality software; OS X is just awesome; built
on *nix; but kind of expensive with a lack of hardware options. What
hardware options there are tend to be of reasonably high quality with
beautiful industrial design. Has a high geek-cred factor.
To be honest, switching from Windows would be a bit of a drastic move
just to use Sass and Git, especially if you've already invested in
software for the platform. I use Ruby, Haml, Sass, Git and all sorts
of other things perfectly happily on Windows. I also use an Ubuntu VM
running on VirtualBox when I need it and it's brilliant - I love
Ubuntu. VirtualBox is lovely too.
Some resources for you to help you on you way:
http://progit.org/book/ch1-4.html
http://github.com/guides/using-git-and-github-for-the-windows-for-newbies
http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/
http://code.google.com/p/tortoisegit/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/
http://www.virtualbox.org/
In the long run, it's probably best to just buy a Mac if you're after
the best all-round experience (you can still run Linux and Windows in
VirtualBox VMs), but don't think you can't have just as much fun on
Windows if that's where you're stuck.
If you're really into the whole platform agnostic thing and you come
to deploy Rails or Sinatra (or other Rack-based) apps online, then
Heroku is really awesome. They've pretty much abstracted the OS away.
It all just works and you don't have to think about servers and such.
Plus, basic accounts are free, so you can test your app out live
without any initial cost outlay.
Charles
2010/1/21 Amy <amster...@gmail.com>:
>>>>> <haml%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
>>>
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/haml?hl=en.
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -Richard Aday
>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> Groups
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>>>> To post to this group, send email to ha...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>>>
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>
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Amy L
DogBot
NOEL>>(I know Live CD, WTF..
HA HA HA!!
Noel you made me choke on my coffee!!!!
and then Charles:
>>switching from Windows would be a bit of a drastic move
just to use Sass and Git....
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
(I know,I know it's ROFL but that is just not satisfying enough to
express how much that tickled me!)
Honestly Charles, I would not buy a $3000 machine for that..nooo
sirreee..I'd do it for the chicks...
YEAH!!
nuff said..
Wait speaking of chicks.....Amy.....Heroku? seriously....WTF!
I'm not even going to Google that..I reckon I don't have enough
Tylenol right now...
OldDog