funding option for social startup or boostrapping startup

[Jiang Fung Wong]

Hi,

In sg, I have an idea for a social startup (social work), which I don't want to commit full-time to it. 

Therefore I am bootstrapping it, but it's good to have some fund to do things quick, e.g. outsourcing logo and site layout design.

What are the funding options? VC and angels will not entertain me.

Regards,

Jiang

[Meng Weng Wong]

pay for it yourself out of savings :) or raise money from FFF.

99designs is pretty cheap, and you can download a site template for very little money.

JFDI will be pioneering a "lean lazy" methodology aimed at entrepreneurs like you who don't want to go full-time yet – the idea is to do Ash Maurya's book "Running Lean" on nights and weekends as part of a rolling admission toward the 2013 intake. But even so, founders need to demonstrate some degree of commitment to their idea, and that usually means putting their own money into the startup. Investors like to see skin in the game.

[Jiang Fung Wong]

Wow thanks for the advice. Although I don't quite understand some of the acronyms in your reply, I will find out.

You must be the one who designed the Meng's map of capital markets.

Cheers,

Jiang

[Mingming Wang]

Another way to do things quick, is to find cofounders.

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[David Low]

FFF = Friends, Family and Fools

Cheers, 

David

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Jiang Fung Wong <kakar...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Martin Bähr]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 08:37:34PM +0800, Meng Weng Wong wrote:
> pay for it yourself out of savings :) or raise money from FFF.
>
> 99designs is pretty cheap, and you can download a site template for very little money.
>
> JFDI will be pioneering a "lean lazy" methodology aimed at entrepreneurs like you who don't want to go full-time yet – the idea is to do Ash Maurya's book "Running Lean" on nights and weekends as part of a rolling admission toward the 2013 intake. But even so, founders need to demonstrate some degree of commitment to their idea, and that usually means putting their own money into the startup. Investors like to see skin in the game.

what about loans?
is it ok to take some of the investor money (once received) to pay back
a previous loan?

greetings, martin.
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[Fazli Mansor]

Have you checked out the ComCare Enterprise Fund from the Sg Gov...  http://app1.mcys.gov.sg/Assistance/ComCareEnterpriseFundCEF.aspx 

/fazli

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[Meng Weng Wong]

It depends on the intent of the initial lender. If the lender is doing it as an investment, then that loan should convert to the next round of equity raised.

If the lender was just FFF and wants the money back, and it's not a large amount relative to the amount raised, say 10%, then it's ok to pay back.

for more about venture financing i recommend

http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/category/term-sheet
http://www.amazon.com/Venture-Deals-Smarter-Lawyer-Capitalist/dp/0470929820/
http://mengwong.com/sg/capital/10%20how%20to%20invest.pdf

[Benjamin Scherrey]

Martin,

    My experience (someone speak up if they've seen otherwise) is that investors  (especially early ones) do not like having their investment pay back loans. It's important that their money is used to take the business forward. Servicing a loan on a reasonable monthly payment may be ok but buying out a pending or due note is something almost never done. 

    Having an existing note convert to equity (known as a convertible note - which is arranged as such before hand) is a common form of funding. Indeed that's exactly how I've funded our first startup spin off of Proteus. We boot strapped the product for ourselves and have now turned it into it's own company with a team of new owners. We are funding via a convertible note that has the IP as collateral. If the note doesn't convert and is not paid back then this provides protection for Proteus as the original IP we developed will revert back to us rather than become an asset to be liquidated amongst other investors or stockholders that we may not know in the future. 

  -- Ben

[Frank Lee]

You can talk to NVPC for funding as well, if your agenda and theirs correlate and your idea is great to proceed with.
We managed to get some funding from NVPC for our social enterprise startup, Empact.

They can also help in linking you up with other socially nice folks.

Ping me at fran...@symfluence.com if you need links?

Best Regards,
Frank

[Frank Lee]

Crowdfund it?
http://www.togather.asia/

You may want to talk to Social Enterprise Association as well for funding.

[Martin Bähr]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 07:18:48PM +0700, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> My experience (someone speak up if they've seen otherwise) is that
> investors (especially early ones) do not like having their investment pay
> back loans. It's important that their money is used to take the business
> forward. Servicing a loan on a reasonable monthly payment may be ok but
> buying out a pending or due note is something almost never done.

thanks, that is pretty much what i expected.

greetings, martin.
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services: debugging, programming, training, linux sysadmin, web development
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Martin B�hr http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

[Martin Bähr]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 05:12:46PM +0800, Meng Weng Wong wrote:
> It depends on the intent of the initial lender. If the lender is doing
> it as an investment, then that loan should convert to the next round
> of equity raised.

i am starting to get what this thing about convertible notes is about.

if i fail (and don't get a next round), i have to pay back the money,
but if do get the next round, then the initial loan/investment becomes
part of that.

what if the initial investor wants out? he or she would effectively have
to try to sell his part of the equity to someone else, which would be
the equivalent of paying back the loan.

if that's right then it's all a matter of negotiating the terms.

greetings, martin.
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Martin B�hr http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

[Meng Weng Wong]

One term for this is "partial liquidation."

See http://www.cloudave.com/1616/should-founders-be-allowed-to-take-money-off-the-table/ for a decent summary of the issues.

This thinking applies to equity investors and founders though. Your scenario describes debt.

Unless the debt amount truly is a small percentage of the later investor's investment the later investor will probably balk.

In fact certain term sheets will contain a Negative Pledge to the effect that all funds raised will go toward operating expenses of the company; loan repayments other than founder reimbursements for operating expenses are specifically prohibited.

[Patrick]

On 2012-04-27 19:47, Martin B�hr wrote:
> if that's right then it's all a matter of negotiating the terms.

Negotiating is absolutely job #1. These transactions aren't
exchange-regulated, they're completely open-ended.[1]

This creates a major time-suck which you should plan for in advance; the
last thing you want to be doing is negotiating when you have cash
dwindling and time is running out.


Patrick

[1] They want 37 boxes of orange Jell-O? A bowl of M&Ms with the brown
ones removed? Non-dilutive rights? The counterparty can specify
anything, so you have to read and grok every line.

[Benjamin Scherrey]

The missing brown m&m's was actually an excellent tell. :-) I think all performance contracts should have something like that in them.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Patrick <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

[1] They want 37 boxes of orange Jell-O? A bowl of M&Ms with the brown

ones removed? Non-dilutive rights? The counterparty can specify
anything, so you have to read and grok every line.

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[Patrick Haller]

On 2012-04-28 11:27, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> The missing brown m&m's was actually an excellent tell. :-) I think all
> performance contracts should have something like that in them.

It's a proxy; Van Halen would have been better off independently
verifying all the components. Nowadays, it might be better to ship an
eval team to the site and/or pull their instrumentation data feeds.

Granted, without any error-checking or correlations, M&Ms still win ;)

[elisha]

Just in case you're going to use 99designs, appsumo is selling $50
credits for $5
http://www.appsumo.com/99designs-50-credit-for-5/

[Martin Bähr]

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 01:57:04AM +0800, Meng Weng Wong wrote:
> One term for this is "partial liquidation."
> See
> http://www.cloudave.com/1616/should-founders-be-allowed-to-take-money-off-the-table/
> for a decent summary of the issues.

on aspect discussed here is a decent salary as opposed to a minimal one
for the founders. i kinda agree with the poster. "feed the family" money
is a must.

> Unless the debt amount truly is a small percentage of the later
> investor's investment the later investor will probably balk.

the important thing to take away here is to make clear in the dept
negotiation that it will only be repaid when i personally earn some
money, not when the company raises more money. or let the dept be
converted. or avoid dept to begin with.

[Meng Weng Wong]

that's right. anyone who lends money without a clear plan to get it back deserves to wait.

besides, is the loan to you or to the company? these are basic questions that need to be resolved.

[Patrick]

> besides, is the loan to you or to the company? these are basic questions that need to be resolved.

> > the important thing to take away here is to make clear in the dept
> > negotiation

Writing a contract is like writing code: you want to cover all the
situations that could occur and provide a mechanism for resolving any
unforeseen issues. So, for each situation, you specify exactly who will
do what for how long, and who will get what at what time.

You should code it now, so you get familiar with the problem space (kind
of like write one to throw away ;). Debt registrations (e.g. [1]) in the
US are one way, reading the example debt contracts [2] are another.


Patrick

[1] http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/7032/000119312512191374/d308537ds1.htm
[2] http://www.printablecontracts.com/Debt_Agreement_Contract.php

[Justin Lee]

I usually take the same style of writing firewall rules for contracts.

Deny all, then allow conditions that are agreed upon.

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[nubela]

You might wanna flesh out a MVP and get some traction, possibly then
investors might respond :)

On Apr 29, 10:54 am, Justin Lee <triple...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I usually take the same style of writing firewall rules for contracts.
>
> Deny all, then allow conditions that are agreed upon.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Patrick <patrick.hal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > besides, is the loan to you or to the company? these are basic questions
> > that need to be resolved.
> > > > the important thing to take away here is to make clear in the dept
> > > > negotiation
>
> > Writing a contract is like writing code: you want to cover all the
> > situations that could occur and provide a mechanism for resolving any
> > unforeseen issues. So, for each situation, you specify exactly who will
> > do what for how long, and who will get what at what time.
>
> > You should code it now, so you get familiar with the problem space (kind
> > of like write one to throw away ;). Debt registrations (e.g. [1]) in the
> > US are one way, reading the example debt contracts [2] are another.
>
> > Patrick
>
> > [1]

> >http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/7032/000119312512191374/d308537ds1...