Solar power and usage monitoring - hackerspace_brisbane

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Message from discussion Solar power and usage monitoring
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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 15:17:34 +1000
Message-ID: <CAKZ1cTw07JtObNsvDrb_096safbOpqPub2ySU+N9ti=dZJq...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Solar power and usage monitoring
From: James Hodgkinson <yale...@ricetek.net>
To: hackerspace_brisbane@googlegroups.com
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Yeah, it's connected to a machine that's always on for various reasons, so
I have a perl script which takes the XML and parses it into something I can
feed into RRDtool.

The person I got the script off has a cacti monitor which imports the data
and allows analysis. I haven't decided which way I'm going, because I've
got other plans for the data as well.

I looked at emoncms and the various open-source solutions but for the price
this one seems to be the least effort.

James

On 3 November 2012 13:40, Joel Byrnes <fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Cool :) so you're monitoring the power point circuit going to your bedroom
> specifically?
>
> So you have that little screen that shows usage, but instead use the XML
> feed for more data? That might work. I just thought it was a bit expensive
> for the base unit, but I need do a a full costing of different solutions.
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:07 PM, James Hodgkinson <yale...@ricetek.net>wrote:
>
>> I'm closer to the second guy, but once I've added a few more per-circuit
>> sensors I'll be at a middle ground. An example of what I graph constantly
>> is here: http://yaleman.org/power.html and I can tell when someone's
>> cooking, the hot water system's on or one of our fridges is running. The
>> bottom graph shows my bedroom, with the laptop/fan overnight being the only
>> load.
>>
>> Most of the time we sit at 4-600w depending on whether computers and or
>> fridges are running.
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>> On 3 November 2012 13:03, Joel Byrnes <fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Somewhat relatedly, years ago I saw an article where an electrician had
>>> wired up current sensors to *every single power point and light* in his
>>> house, and collected that data into some monitoring solution. So obviously
>>> he had very good info on what used power and how to minimise it. But it
>>> would have been a huge effort and expense.
>>>
>>> A smarter system was one where a guy monitored just the whole power for
>>> the house, or may it was per-circuit, and although multiple devices were
>>> using power at once, he applied signal analysis and could readily identify
>>> the usage of typical devices as they powered on; lights were constant, the
>>> fridge comes on suddenly for short periods, the air con has a bit of a wave
>>> to it. From that he could tell how much power the majority of typical
>>> devices used, and how much they cost over time, without having to monitor
>>> every point.
>>>
>>> I just went to check now, and we're putting power into the grid (but not
>>> getting paid for it yet until Energex installs the new meter). A cloud went
>>> over and it slowed down and nearly stopped at power-neutral. So right now
>>> during the day we're using less than 900W, which is good for our future
>>> power bills.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Joel Byrnes <
>>> fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the analysis Buzz. I'm aware of the clamp concept, the
>>>> trouble is then how do you read them? And then what can/should you do with
>>>> the data? I'm looking for experiences with a whole solution, and yet not
>>>> one that condenses all the data and and processing into a device.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM, buzz <davidb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Clamp meter/s are the easiest and least intrusive way of measuring
>>>>> your current usage, but probably hard to "integrate" or log.   there
>>>>> are some clamp meters  that you can get that will have the built-in
>>>>> ability to log to a RS232 or similar output, but they are usually
>>>>> pricy.
>>>>>
>>>>> The open energy monitor system uses a "CT Sensor" which I've not heard
>>>>> of till today, but as far as I can tell it's just the "clamp" part of
>>>>> a clamp meter, which sounds promising.    they are pretty cheap too,
>>>>> between $20-$30 ( including shipping )  each unit.
>>>>> two examples:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Owl-CM119-CM160-Energy-Monitor-Meter-Standard-CT-Sensor-/110959200098?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item19d5af0762
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Current-Sensor-CT-Clamp-for-Watts-Clever-Wireless-Energy-Monitors-2-or-3-phase-/280776520560?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item415f95b370
>>>>>
>>>>> http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/buildingblocks/report-yhdc-sct-013-000-current-transformer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another option may include hacking a el-cheapo $9 clamp meter (
>>>>> including shipping!)  like the one below, but personally I'd use one
>>>>> of the above ones: ( twice the price , but way less than 1/2 the
>>>>> hassle )
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-AC-DC-Digital-Multimeter-Electronic-Tester-CLAMP-/270759701846?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f0a892d56
>>>>>
>>>>> And the last , and most "ghetto" option is to find the smallest
>>>>> transformer you can that has approx 2000 turns or more on its
>>>>> secondary , and a "core" that is removable, and disconnect the  Active
>>>>> wire from the circuit that you want to measure, and feed it through
>>>>> the core of the transformer, and then connect the secondary coil to
>>>>> something that can measure it's output.    ( the primary coil is
>>>>> unused ).   it's very smart to use two 20V zeners back-to-back across
>>>>> the secondary, as well as a shunt resistor in parallel with them, as
>>>>> it's easy for large AC voltages ( with tiny amounts of current)  to
>>>>> build-up in the transformer otherwise.           Essentially you are
>>>>> making a new "primary" for the transformer that is just 1 turn, or
>>>>> pass-through, so the current is miniscule.  THis is exactly how CT and
>>>>> Clamp meters work anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Buzz.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2 November 2012 14:49, Joel Byrnes
>>>>> <fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > Hi all,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I just got a solar panel system installed, and am interested in
>>>>> monitoring
>>>>> > and logging both the output from the panels, and the total house
>>>>> power
>>>>> > usage. Does anyone here have experience with that?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have an Aurora 2kW inverter, PVI-2000-OUTD-AU. It has a RS-485
>>>>> connection,
>>>>> > but for some reason that has been run into the back of the
>>>>> meter/breaker
>>>>> > box, maybe it gets plugged into the Energex updated meter when that
>>>>> gets
>>>>> > installed?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I will probably use a Raspberry Pi, a USB to RS485 adapter, and wifi
>>>>> to log
>>>>> > the data, unless there are better/cheaper options? I considered XBee
>>>>> to
>>>>> > monitor the RS485 but that's expensive, and still requires something
>>>>> at the
>>>>> > other end to monitor it.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The best solution appears to be the free software Aurora Monitor,
>>>>> which runs
>>>>> > on linux and windowshttp://auroramonitor.sourceforge.net/ logging
>>>>> to the
>>>>> > free service at pvoutput.org.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I found some articles on connecting to the inverter, although in
>>>>> some cases
>>>>> > they open the inverter itself which seems unnecessary.
>>>>> >
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr027pj1qk8lely/Aurora%20PV%20Inverter%20Monitoring%20with%20Hexin%202108E-B.doc?m
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1965598#
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This USB adapter is $10 and includes a breakout for non-standard
>>>>> connections
>>>>> > such as this
>>>>> >
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-2-0-RS422-RS-422-RS485-Converter-Adapter-Serial-/200462341052?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Components&hash=item2eac7c93bc#ht_4088wt_941
>>>>> > However there was something in the manual about 600V protection...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So all that seems pretty straightforward, next, the hard part is
>>>>> monitoring
>>>>> > the total house power usage, and/or the power input/output from/to
>>>>> the grid.
>>>>> > I am told the Energex meter has no data output, which is pretty poor
>>>>> since
>>>>> > it's apparently digital.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There are options for current-sensing with non-contact clamps, like
>>>>> > Fluksometer http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=312 which also has
>>>>> wifi and
>>>>> > does logging itself. But if I'm using a Raspberry Pi it seems
>>>>> simpler to do
>>>>> > it all in once device.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Does anyone have proven solutions for this?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks
>>>>> > Joel
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
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>>>>> Groups
>>>>> > "hackerspace_brisbane" group.
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>>>>> > For more options, visit this group at
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>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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--e89a8f23440fb7fe4f04cd905ebd
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah, it&#39;s connected to a machine that&#39;s always on for various reas=
ons, so I have a perl script which takes the XML and parses it into somethi=
ng I can feed into RRDtool.=A0<div><br></div><div>The person I got the scri=
pt off has a cacti monitor which imports the data and allows analysis. I ha=
ven&#39;t decided which way I&#39;m going, because I&#39;ve got other plans=
 for the data as well.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I looked at emoncms and the various open-source solutio=
ns but for the price this one seems to be the least effort.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>James<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3 November 2012 13:40,=
 Joel Byrnes <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fatal.exception.occurr=
e...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Cool :) so you&#39;re monitoring the power p=
oint circuit going to your bedroom specifically? <br><br>So you have that l=
ittle screen that shows usage, but instead use the XML feed for more data? =
That might work. I just thought it was a bit expensive for the base unit, b=
ut I need do a a full costing of different solutions. <br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:07 PM, James Hodgki=
nson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yale...@ricetek.net" target=3D=
"_blank">yale...@ricetek.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">

I&#39;m closer to the second guy, but once I&#39;ve added a few more per-ci=
rcuit sensors I&#39;ll be at a middle ground. An example of what I graph co=
nstantly is here: <a href=3D"http://yaleman.org/power.html" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://yaleman.org/power.html</a> and I can tell when someone&#39;s cook=
ing, the hot water system&#39;s on or one of our fridges is running. The bo=
ttom graph shows my bedroom, with the laptop/fan overnight being the only l=
oad.<div>


<br></div><div>Most of the time we sit at 4-600w depending on whether compu=
ters and or fridges are running.<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br><div><br>=
</div></font></span><div><span><font color=3D"#888888">James</font></span><=
div>

<div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3 November 2012 13:03, Joel Byrn=
es <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Somewhat relatedly, years ago I saw an artic=
le where an electrician had wired up current sensors to *every single power=
 point and light* in his house, and collected that data into some monitorin=
g solution. So obviously he had very good info on what used power and how t=
o minimise it. But it would have been a huge effort and expense. <br>



<br>A smarter system was one where a guy monitored just the whole power for=
 the house, or may it was per-circuit, and although multiple devices were u=
sing power at once, he applied signal analysis and could readily identify t=
he usage of typical devices as they powered on; lights were constant, the f=
ridge comes on suddenly for short periods, the air con has a bit of a wave =
to it. From that he could tell how much power the majority of typical devic=
es used, and how much they cost over time, without having to monitor every =
point. <br>



<br>I just went to check now, and we&#39;re putting power into the grid (bu=
t not getting paid for it yet until Energex installs the new meter). A clou=
d went over and it slowed down and nearly stopped at power-neutral. So righ=
t now during the day we&#39;re using less than 900W, which is good for our =
future power bills. <br>


<div><div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Joel Byrnes=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br>



<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks for the analysis Buzz. I&#39;m aware =
of the clamp concept, the trouble is then how do you read them? And then wh=
at can/should you do with the data? I&#39;m looking for experiences with a =
whole solution, and yet not one that condenses all the data and and process=
ing into a device. <br>



<div><div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM, buzz <span d=
ir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:davidb...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dav=
idb...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




Clamp meter/s are the easiest and least intrusive way of measuring<br>
your current usage, but probably hard to &quot;integrate&quot; or log. =A0 =
there<br>
are some clamp meters =A0that you can get that will have the built-in<br>
ability to log to a RS232 or similar output, but they are usually<br>
pricy.<br>
<br>
The open energy monitor system uses a &quot;CT Sensor&quot; which I&#39;ve =
not heard<br>
of till today, but as far as I can tell it&#39;s just the &quot;clamp&quot;=
 part of<br>
a clamp meter, which sounds promising. =A0 =A0they are pretty cheap too,<br=
>
between $20-$30 ( including shipping ) =A0each unit.<br>
two examples:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Owl-CM119-CM160-Energy-Monitor-Meter-=
Standard-CT-Sensor-/110959200098?pt=3DUK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networki=
ng&amp;hash=3Ditem19d5af0762" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/=
Owl-CM119-CM160-Energy-Monitor-Meter-Standard-CT-Sensor-/110959200098?pt=3D=
UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&amp;hash=3Ditem19d5af0762</a><br>





<a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Current-Sensor-CT-Clamp-for-Watts-Cle=
ver-Wireless-Energy-Monitors-2-or-3-phase-/280776520560?pt=3DAU_B_I_Electri=
cal_Test_Equipment&amp;hash=3Ditem415f95b370" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
ebay.com.au/itm/Current-Sensor-CT-Clamp-for-Watts-Clever-Wireless-Energy-Mo=
nitors-2-or-3-phase-/280776520560?pt=3DAU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&amp=
;hash=3Ditem415f95b370</a><br>





<a href=3D"http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/buildingblocks/report-yhdc-sct=
-013-000-current-transformer" target=3D"_blank">http://openenergymonitor.or=
g/emon/buildingblocks/report-yhdc-sct-013-000-current-transformer</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Another option may include hacking a el-cheapo $9 clamp meter (<br>
including shipping!) =A0like the one below, but personally I&#39;d use one<=
br>
of the above ones: ( twice the price , but way less than 1/2 the<br>
hassle )<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-AC-DC-Digital-Multimeter-Electro=
nic-Tester-CLAMP-/270759701846?pt=3DAU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&amp;ha=
sh=3Ditem3f0a892d56" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-AC-D=
C-Digital-Multimeter-Electronic-Tester-CLAMP-/270759701846?pt=3DAU_B_I_Elec=
trical_Test_Equipment&amp;hash=3Ditem3f0a892d56</a><br>





<br>
And the last , and most &quot;ghetto&quot; option is to find the smallest<b=
r>
transformer you can that has approx 2000 turns or more on its<br>
secondary , and a &quot;core&quot; that is removable, and disconnect the =
=A0Active<br>
wire from the circuit that you want to measure, and feed it through<br>
the core of the transformer, and then connect the secondary coil to<br>
something that can measure it&#39;s output. =A0 =A0( the primary coil is<br=
>
unused ). =A0 it&#39;s very smart to use two 20V zeners back-to-back across=
<br>
the secondary, as well as a shunt resistor in parallel with them, as<br>
it&#39;s easy for large AC voltages ( with tiny amounts of current) =A0to<b=
r>
build-up in the transformer otherwise. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Essentially you =
are<br>
making a new &quot;primary&quot; for the transformer that is just 1 turn, o=
r<br>
pass-through, so the current is miniscule. =A0THis is exactly how CT and<br=
>
Clamp meters work anyway.<br>
<br>
Buzz.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2 November 2012 14:49, Joel Byrnes<br>
<div><div>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I just got a solar panel system installed, and am interested in monito=
ring<br>
&gt; and logging both the output from the panels, and the total house power=
<br>
&gt; usage. Does anyone here have experience with that?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have an Aurora 2kW inverter, PVI-2000-OUTD-AU. It has a RS-485 conne=
ction,<br>
&gt; but for some reason that has been run into the back of the meter/break=
er<br>
&gt; box, maybe it gets plugged into the Energex updated meter when that ge=
ts<br>
&gt; installed?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I will probably use a Raspberry Pi, a USB to RS485 adapter, and wifi t=
o log<br>
&gt; the data, unless there are better/cheaper options? I considered XBee t=
o<br>
&gt; monitor the RS485 but that&#39;s expensive, and still requires somethi=
ng at the<br>
&gt; other end to monitor it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The best solution appears to be the free software Aurora Monitor, whic=
h runs<br>
&gt; on linux and windowshttp://<a href=3D"http://auroramonitor.sourceforge=
.net/" target=3D"_blank">auroramonitor.sourceforge.net/</a> logging to the<=
br>
&gt; free service at <a href=3D"http://pvoutput.org" target=3D"_blank">pvou=
tput.org</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I found some articles on connecting to the inverter, although in some =
cases<br>
&gt; they open the inverter itself which seems unnecessary.<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr027pj1qk8lely/Aurora%20PV%20Inv=
erter%20Monitoring%20with%20Hexin%202108E-B.doc?m" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//www.dropbox.com/s/pr027pj1qk8lely/Aurora%20PV%20Inverter%20Monitoring%20w=
ith%20Hexin%202108E-B.doc?m</a><br>





&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1965598#" target=3D"=
_blank">http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1965598#</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This USB adapter is $10 and includes a breakout for non-standard conne=
ctions<br>
&gt; such as this<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-2-0-RS422-RS-422-RS485-Conve=
rter-Adapter-Serial-/200462341052?cmd=3DViewItem&amp;pt=3DAU_Components&amp=
;hash=3Ditem2eac7c93bc#ht_4088wt_941" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ebay.com=
.au/itm/USB-2-0-RS422-RS-422-RS485-Converter-Adapter-Serial-/200462341052?c=
md=3DViewItem&amp;pt=3DAU_Components&amp;hash=3Ditem2eac7c93bc#ht_4088wt_94=
1</a><br>





&gt; However there was something in the manual about 600V protection...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So all that seems pretty straightforward, next, the hard part is monit=
oring<br>
&gt; the total house power usage, and/or the power input/output from/to the=
 grid.<br>
&gt; I am told the Energex meter has no data output, which is pretty poor s=
ince<br>
&gt; it&#39;s apparently digital.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There are options for current-sensing with non-contact clamps, like<br=
>
&gt; Fluksometer <a href=3D"http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=3D312" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=3D312</a> which also ha=
s wifi and<br>
&gt; does logging itself. But if I&#39;m using a Raspberry Pi it seems simp=
ler to do<br>
&gt; it all in once device.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anyone have proven solutions for this?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; Joel<br>
&gt;<br>
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