Solar power and usage monitoring - hackerspace_brisbane

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Message from discussion Solar power and usage monitoring
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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 12:38:08 +1000
Message-ID: <CANnr-csxkpUYZ1pkHE9_sMdKsLeRKQOSkV79Whjkii6riqc...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Solar power and usage monitoring
From: Joel Byrnes <fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com>
To: hackerspace_brisbane@googlegroups.com
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On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 9:15 PM, James Hodgkinson <yale...@ricetek.net>wrote:

> If you want to go the clamp meter route, check out the currentcost meter -
> I bought mine from smartnow.com.au and I'm happy as with it. Puts out XML
> over serial and can take one "main" transmitter with three clamps and up to
> 9 other inputs, either inline power meters (which they sell on that site)
> or more clamp meters.
>
>
I don't really fancy locking up my data in a device, in fact I don't really
see the need for the screen thing at all. I'm happy with logging to a local
or online service and viewing the data in a browser, in fact that is likely
to be much more useful and flexible. Can you do that?



> James
>
>
> On 2 November 2012 21:09, James Churchill <pel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nooooooo. Firstly, don't confuse RS232 with TTL/3v3 serial - one has up
>> to 25V signalling, the other is 5/3v.
>>
>> Also, RS485 uses differential signalling as opposed to the single ended
>> RS232 - you might be confusing it with RS-422.
>>
>> - James
>>
>> On 2 November 2012 20:26, Luke Hovington <lu...@hovo.id.au> wrote:
>>
>>> I see no reason why you can't use the rs485, as far as I know it's just
>>> one way rs232 so all you have to do is open the connection and just read
>>> the output. (plugging it directly into the rPie, without adapter)
>>>
>>> If this is the case, rPie would be ideal.
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 2, 2012, buzz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clamp meter/s are the easiest and least intrusive way of measuring
>>>> your current usage, but probably hard to "integrate" or log.   there
>>>> are some clamp meters  that you can get that will have the built-in
>>>> ability to log to a RS232 or similar output, but they are usually
>>>> pricy.
>>>>
>>>> The open energy monitor system uses a "CT Sensor" which I've not heard
>>>> of till today, but as far as I can tell it's just the "clamp" part of
>>>> a clamp meter, which sounds promising.    they are pretty cheap too,
>>>> between $20-$30 ( including shipping )  each unit.
>>>> two examples:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Owl-CM119-CM160-Energy-Monitor-Meter-Standard-CT-Sensor-/110959200098?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item19d5af0762
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Current-Sensor-CT-Clamp-for-Watts-Clever-Wireless-Energy-Monitors-2-or-3-phase-/280776520560?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item415f95b370
>>>>
>>>> http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/buildingblocks/report-yhdc-sct-013-000-current-transformer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another option may include hacking a el-cheapo $9 clamp meter (
>>>> including shipping!)  like the one below, but personally I'd use one
>>>> of the above ones: ( twice the price , but way less than 1/2 the
>>>> hassle )
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-AC-DC-Digital-Multimeter-Electronic-Tester-CLAMP-/270759701846?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f0a892d56
>>>>
>>>> And the last , and most "ghetto" option is to find the smallest
>>>> transformer you can that has approx 2000 turns or more on its
>>>> secondary , and a "core" that is removable, and disconnect the  Active
>>>> wire from the circuit that you want to measure, and feed it through
>>>> the core of the transformer, and then connect the secondary coil to
>>>> something that can measure it's output.    ( the primary coil is
>>>> unused ).   it's very smart to use two 20V zeners back-to-back across
>>>> the secondary, as well as a shunt resistor in parallel with them, as
>>>> it's easy for large AC voltages ( with tiny amounts of current)  to
>>>> build-up in the transformer otherwise.           Essentially you are
>>>> making a new "primary" for the transformer that is just 1 turn, or
>>>> pass-through, so the current is miniscule.  THis is exactly how CT and
>>>> Clamp meters work anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Buzz.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2 November 2012 14:49, Joel Byrnes
>>>> <fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Hi all,
>>>> >
>>>> > I just got a solar panel system installed, and am interested in
>>>> monitoring
>>>> > and logging both the output from the panels, and the total house power
>>>> > usage. Does anyone here have experience with that?
>>>> >
>>>> > I have an Aurora 2kW inverter, PVI-2000-OUTD-AU. It has a RS-485
>>>> connection,
>>>> > but for some reason that has been run into the back of the
>>>> meter/breaker
>>>> > box, maybe it gets plugged into the Energex updated meter when that
>>>> gets
>>>> > installed?
>>>> >
>>>> > I will probably use a Raspberry Pi, a USB to RS485 adapter, and wifi
>>>> to log
>>>> > the data, unless there are better/cheaper options? I considered XBee
>>>> to
>>>> > monitor the RS485 but that's expensive, and still requires something
>>>> at the
>>>> > other end to monitor it.
>>>> >
>>>> > The best solution appears to be the free software Aurora Monitor,
>>>> which runs
>>>> > on linux and windowshttp://auroramonitor.sourceforge.net/ logging to
>>>> the
>>>> > free service at pvoutput.org.
>>>> >
>>>> > I found some articles on connecting to the inverter, although in some
>>>> cases
>>>> > they open the inverter itself which seems unnecessary.
>>>> >
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr027pj1qk8lely/Aurora%20PV%20Inverter%20Monitoring%20with%20Hexin%202108E-B.doc?m
>>>> >
>>>> > http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1965598#
>>>> >
>>>> > This USB adapter is $10 and includes a breakout for non-standard
>>>> connections
>>>> > such as this
>>>> >
>>>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-2-0-RS422-RS-422-RS485-Converter-Adapter-Serial-/200462341052?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Components&hash=item2eac7c93bc#ht_4088wt_941
>>>> > However there was something in the manual about 600V protection...
>>>> >
>>>> > So all that seems pretty straightforward, next, the hard part is
>>>> monitoring
>>>> > the total house power usage, and/or the power input/output from/to
>>>> the grid.
>>>> > I am told the Energex meter has no data output, which is pretty poor
>>>> since
>>>> > it's apparently digital.
>>>> >
>>>> > There are options for current-sensing with non-contact clamps, like
>>>> > Fluksometer http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=312 which also has
>>>> wifi and
>>>> > does logging itself. But if I'm using a Raspberry Pi it seems simpler
>>>> to do
>>>> > it all in once device.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does anyone have proven solutions for this?
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks
>>>> > Joel
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups
>>>> > "hackerspace_brisbane" group.
>>>> > To post to this group, send email to
>>>> hackerspace_brisbane@googlegroups.com.
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> > hackerspace_brisbane+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace_brisbane?hl=en.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>
>>>>  --
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>>
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>
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 9:15 PM, James Hodgkinson=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yale...@ricetek.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">yale...@ricetek.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">
If you want to go the clamp meter route, check out the currentcost meter - =
I bought mine from <a href=3D"http://smartnow.com.au" target=3D"_blank">sma=
rtnow.com.au</a> and I&#39;m happy as with it. Puts out XML over serial and=
 can take one &quot;main&quot; transmitter with three clamps and up to 9 ot=
her inputs, either inline power meters (which they sell on that site) or mo=
re clamp meters.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div>

<br></div></font></span></blockquote><div><br>I don&#39;t really fancy lock=
ing up my data in a device, in fact I don&#39;t really see the need for the=
 screen thing at all. I&#39;m happy with logging to a local or online servi=
ce and viewing the data in a browser, in fact that is likely to be much mor=
e useful and flexible. Can you do that?<br>
<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font co=
lor=3D"#888888"><div></div></font></span><div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font =
color=3D"#888888">James</font></span><div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 November 2012 21:=
09, James Churchill <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pel...@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">pel...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">

Nooooooo. Firstly, don&#39;t confuse RS232 with TTL/3v3 serial - one has up=
 to 25V signalling, the other is 5/3v.<div><br></div><div>Also, RS485 uses =
differential signalling as opposed to the single ended RS232 - you might be=
 confusing it with RS-422.</div>

<span><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br></div><div>- James</div></font></span><div><div><div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 November 2012 20:26, Luke Hovington <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lu...@hovo.id.au" target=3D"_blank">lu...@hovo.id.a=
u</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I see no reason why you can&#39;t use the rs485, as far as I know it&#39;s =
just one way rs232 so all you have to do is open the connection and just re=
ad the output. (plugging it directly into the rPie, without adapter)<span><=
/span><div>



<br></div><div>If this is the case, rPie would be ideal.</div><div><div><di=
v><br>On Friday, November 2, 2012, buzz  wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">


Clamp meter/s are the easiest and least intrusive way of measuring<br>

your current usage, but probably hard to &quot;integrate&quot; or log. =A0 =
there<br>
are some clamp meters =A0that you can get that will have the built-in<br>
ability to log to a RS232 or similar output, but they are usually<br>
pricy.<br>
<br>
The open energy monitor system uses a &quot;CT Sensor&quot; which I&#39;ve =
not heard<br>
of till today, but as far as I can tell it&#39;s just the &quot;clamp&quot;=
 part of<br>
a clamp meter, which sounds promising. =A0 =A0they are pretty cheap too,<br=
>
between $20-$30 ( including shipping ) =A0each unit.<br>
two examples:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Owl-CM119-CM160-Energy-Monitor-Meter-=
Standard-CT-Sensor-/110959200098?pt=3DUK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networki=
ng&amp;hash=3Ditem19d5af0762" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/=
Owl-CM119-CM160-Energy-Monitor-Meter-Standard-CT-Sensor-/110959200098?pt=3D=
UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&amp;hash=3Ditem19d5af0762</a><br>




<a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Current-Sensor-CT-Clamp-for-Watts-Cle=
ver-Wireless-Energy-Monitors-2-or-3-phase-/280776520560?pt=3DAU_B_I_Electri=
cal_Test_Equipment&amp;hash=3Ditem415f95b370" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
ebay.com.au/itm/Current-Sensor-CT-Clamp-for-Watts-Clever-Wireless-Energy-Mo=
nitors-2-or-3-phase-/280776520560?pt=3DAU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&amp=
;hash=3Ditem415f95b370</a><br>




<a href=3D"http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/buildingblocks/report-yhdc-sct=
-013-000-current-transformer" target=3D"_blank">http://openenergymonitor.or=
g/emon/buildingblocks/report-yhdc-sct-013-000-current-transformer</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Another option may include hacking a el-cheapo $9 clamp meter (<br>
including shipping!) =A0like the one below, but personally I&#39;d use one<=
br>
of the above ones: ( twice the price , but way less than 1/2 the<br>
hassle )<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-AC-DC-Digital-Multimeter-Electro=
nic-Tester-CLAMP-/270759701846?pt=3DAU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&amp;ha=
sh=3Ditem3f0a892d56" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-AC-D=
C-Digital-Multimeter-Electronic-Tester-CLAMP-/270759701846?pt=3DAU_B_I_Elec=
trical_Test_Equipment&amp;hash=3Ditem3f0a892d56</a><br>




<br>
And the last , and most &quot;ghetto&quot; option is to find the smallest<b=
r>
transformer you can that has approx 2000 turns or more on its<br>
secondary , and a &quot;core&quot; that is removable, and disconnect the =
=A0Active<br>
wire from the circuit that you want to measure, and feed it through<br>
the core of the transformer, and then connect the secondary coil to<br>
something that can measure it&#39;s output. =A0 =A0( the primary coil is<br=
>
unused ). =A0 it&#39;s very smart to use two 20V zeners back-to-back across=
<br>
the secondary, as well as a shunt resistor in parallel with them, as<br>
it&#39;s easy for large AC voltages ( with tiny amounts of current) =A0to<b=
r>
build-up in the transformer otherwise. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Essentially you =
are<br>
making a new &quot;primary&quot; for the transformer that is just 1 turn, o=
r<br>
pass-through, so the current is miniscule. =A0THis is exactly how CT and<br=
>
Clamp meters work anyway.<br>
<br>
Buzz.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2 November 2012 14:49, Joel Byrnes<br>
&lt;<a>fatal.exception.occur...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I just got a solar panel system installed, and am interested in monito=
ring<br>
&gt; and logging both the output from the panels, and the total house power=
<br>
&gt; usage. Does anyone here have experience with that?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have an Aurora 2kW inverter, PVI-2000-OUTD-AU. It has a RS-485 conne=
ction,<br>
&gt; but for some reason that has been run into the back of the meter/break=
er<br>
&gt; box, maybe it gets plugged into the Energex updated meter when that ge=
ts<br>
&gt; installed?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I will probably use a Raspberry Pi, a USB to RS485 adapter, and wifi t=
o log<br>
&gt; the data, unless there are better/cheaper options? I considered XBee t=
o<br>
&gt; monitor the RS485 but that&#39;s expensive, and still requires somethi=
ng at the<br>
&gt; other end to monitor it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The best solution appears to be the free software Aurora Monitor, whic=
h runs<br>
&gt; on linux and windowshttp://<a href=3D"http://auroramonitor.sourceforge=
.net/" target=3D"_blank">auroramonitor.sourceforge.net/</a> logging to the<=
br>
&gt; free service at <a href=3D"http://pvoutput.org" target=3D"_blank">pvou=
tput.org</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I found some articles on connecting to the inverter, although in some =
cases<br>
&gt; they open the inverter itself which seems unnecessary.<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr027pj1qk8lely/Aurora%20PV%20Inv=
erter%20Monitoring%20with%20Hexin%202108E-B.doc?m" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//www.dropbox.com/s/pr027pj1qk8lely/Aurora%20PV%20Inverter%20Monitoring%20w=
ith%20Hexin%202108E-B.doc?m</a><br>




&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1965598#" target=3D"=
_blank">http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1965598#</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This USB adapter is $10 and includes a breakout for non-standard conne=
ctions<br>
&gt; such as this<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-2-0-RS422-RS-422-RS485-Conve=
rter-Adapter-Serial-/200462341052?cmd=3DViewItem&amp;pt=3DAU_Components&amp=
;hash=3Ditem2eac7c93bc#ht_4088wt_941" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ebay.com=
.au/itm/USB-2-0-RS422-RS-422-RS485-Converter-Adapter-Serial-/200462341052?c=
md=3DViewItem&amp;pt=3DAU_Components&amp;hash=3Ditem2eac7c93bc#ht_4088wt_94=
1</a><br>




&gt; However there was something in the manual about 600V protection...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So all that seems pretty straightforward, next, the hard part is monit=
oring<br>
&gt; the total house power usage, and/or the power input/output from/to the=
 grid.<br>
&gt; I am told the Energex meter has no data output, which is pretty poor s=
ince<br>
&gt; it&#39;s apparently digital.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There are options for current-sensing with non-contact clamps, like<br=
>
&gt; Fluksometer <a href=3D"http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=3D312" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=3D312</a> which also ha=
s wifi and<br>
&gt; does logging itself. But if I&#39;m using a Raspberry Pi it seems simp=
ler to do<br>
&gt; it all in once device.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anyone have proven solutions for this?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; Joel<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
ups<br>
&gt; &quot;hackerspace_brisbane&quot; group.<br>
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ups.com</a>.<br>
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&gt; <a>hackerspace_brisbane+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
&gt; For more options, visit this group at<br>
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" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace_brisbane?hl=
=3Den</a>.<br>
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