Who wants to build a 3D printer?

[Scott B]

I have been having a bit of a chat to Pix behind the scenes regarding
building/purchasing my own 3D printer.

At the moment we are looking at the possibility of building a
something like a MendelMax ( http://reprap.org/wiki/MendelMax ) -
using the reprap software and compatible electronics, but with my own
aluminium tube based frame and components to hopefully end up with a
higher quality machine than some of the questionable Huxley/Mendel
kits that are currently available.

We may also choose to make our own compatible main board that will
allow modular plug in stepper motor drivers and seperate power
supplies for the controls, hot end and heated bed - plent of options
to discuss yet.

So If anyone else is currently looking at building/buying a machine
also, stick your hand up – if you want to get on board we can group
buy the motors, drivers etc. and work together on the development -
if I am going to fire up the CNC Mill/Lathe to make one part for mine,
I mght as well press the 'Start' button a few more times a make a
few...

[Steven Pickles]

*snap*

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[Paul Schulz]

Hi Scott,

Please count me in.. although at this stage I am really interested in
a 'whiteboard' writing bot.
(I'll need stepper motors and a controller).

See: http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace-adelaide/browse_thread/thread/1918bc8703c83756

[sighmon]

*puts hand up*

I'm definitely keen, especially if it involves building/designing one
that needs less maintenance & prints more dimensionally accurate
parts.

Love the idea of modular plug in parts. Should help debugging & allow
for upgrades as we see what works/doesn't work.

Scott: if you're going to be making parts on the CNC, I'm happy to put
some money into a kitty to go towards materials.

*exciting*

s.

On Jun 1, 12:06 pm, Steven Pickles <thatpix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *snap*
>

> On 1 June 2012 12:34, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have been having a bit of a chat to Pix behind the scenes regarding
> > building/purchasing my own 3D printer.
>
> > At the moment we are looking at the possibility of building a

> > something like a MendelMax (http://reprap.org/wiki/MendelMax) -

[Scott B]

So whats on our wish list here?

based on my *very* limited experience with these thingsI would like:
The material feed steper motor to be integral with the 'hot end' - as
per the prusa.
Strong simple frame - alloy tubing or similar, not plastic bits and
threaded rod. This kind of construction (only smaller) http://www.razordance.co.uk/
Electronics/software compatible with a reprap - but perhaps a modular
design of the main PCB rather than a all in one board.
Built in material spool.

On Jun 1, 12:06 pm, Steven Pickles <thatpix...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *snap*

>
> On 1 June 2012 12:34, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have been having a bit of a chat to Pix behind the scenes regarding
> > building/purchasing my own 3D printer.
>
> > At the moment we are looking at the possibility of building a

> > something like a MendelMax (http://reprap.org/wiki/MendelMax) -

> > using the reprap software and compatible electronics, but with my own
> > aluminium tube based frame and components to hopefully end up with a
> > higher quality machine than some of the questionable Huxley/Mendel
> > kits that are currently available.
>
> > We may also choose to make our own compatible main board that will
> > allow modular plug in stepper motor drivers and seperate power
> > supplies for the controls, hot end and heated bed - plent of options
> > to discuss yet.
>
> > So If anyone else is currently looking at building/buying a machine
> > also, stick your hand up – if you want to get on board we can group
> > buy the motors, drivers etc.  and work together on the development -
> > if I am going to fire up the CNC Mill/Lathe to make one part for mine,
> > I mght as well press the 'Start' button a few more times a make a
> > few...
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "HackerSpace - Adelaide, South Australia" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to hackerspac...@googlegroups.com
> > .
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > hackerspace-adel...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace-adelaide?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Scott B]

and yeah, I am expecting to make most of the frame on the CNC mill -
although I have a AC Tig I would most likely go for a bolt together
design so that warping isn't an issue, and an updated parts can be
bolt on/off.

This is what it can pump out in a couple of hours once its up and
running http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4099/4763653932_49edd8474d_b.jpg
(cat not included)

[Ken]

I'm somewhat interested in a 3D printer, but not the type that consumes 6 months of effort to get it to actually print something.
(And I'm about to move houses, so adding hardware to my substantial magpie collection doesn't make sense right now).
So I'll probably end up buying something ready-made if it is cheap enough (and small enough).

But it occurs to me, for you make-it-from-scratch people, that inkjet printers can be had for a song, even laser printers.
So that gives you a couple of stepper motors, a rotating long roller, and a good steel rod & carriage, with a precision belt/stepper for moving the carriage along the rod.

Wouldn't cheap printers supply cheap but precision parts to contribute to the movement bits for a 3D printer?
Yes, there would be a heap of bits to throw away, which wouldn't be good for the environment, but...

Waddaya reckon?

Ken.

[Paul Schulz]

... also keen on developing a modular reprap print head to improve reliability. Eg if one gets clogged can swap it for another and fix in slow time. (Need source of heatsink/fan combination, and to find a suitable connector/socket.)

[Steven Pickles]

hey Ken,

If you want a cheap(ish) 3d printer that will "just work", I highly recommend the Makerbot. Now you can only get the pre-built Replicator which is ~USD$1700

Scott is going with the RepRap designs because he ultimately wants to make it larger / better / faster / awesome etc. The Makerbot models, while derived from the RepRap project, are not designed to be "flexible" in this way. They are a kind of highly specialised evolutionary leaf-node on the RepRap family tree.

As for printers/scanners, they tend to be low torque steppers with a lot gearing to make them useful for their purpose. If you wanted to make a 3D printer on the absolute lowest budget possible, they would be an option, but you will be limited in speed and print quality. It is more of an option for people making RepStraps (a cobbled together 3D printer purely to print the parts for bootstrapping a RepRap if you don't have access to a 3D printer already).

pix

[Scott B]

Good Idea, that was the thinking behind our modular stepper drivers
etc. If a machine goes down you want to be able to quickly and easily
swap parts out with another machine or spares to diagnose problems.

RC hobby connectors would be great for things that require a bit of
current (bed and tip heaters) The rest should be able to be done with
a normal mulit-pole connectors, we would just have to come up with a
wiring standard and stick to it.

On Jun 1, 12:31 pm, Paul Schulz <pschul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... also keen on developing a modular reprap print head to improve
> reliability. Eg if one gets clogged can swap it for another and fix in slow
> time. (Need source of heatsink/fan combination, and to find a suitable
> connector/socket.)

> On Jun 1, 2012 12:55 PM, "Scott B" <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > and yeah, I am expecting to make most of the frame on the CNC mill -
> > although I have a AC Tig I would most likely go for a bolt together
> > design so that warping isn't an issue, and an updated parts can be
> > bolt on/off.
>
> > This is what it can pump out in a couple of hours once its up and

> > runninghttp://farm5.staticflickr.com/4099/4763653932_49edd8474d_b.jpg

> > (cat not included)
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > .
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > For more options, visit this group at

[Jonathan Wheare]

This may be of interest - it is a more or less standard extruder that
has been modified with a quick release to allow filament to be rapidly
inserted or removed.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12320

I have also stumbled over another aluminium mendel design that could be
useful:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16076

J.

[Ken]

Thanks for that feedback, pix.
US$1700 is not cheap by my reckoning. $300 + $50 shipping is preferable.  :)
I'm not adverse to assembling something, but what is coming from the people in the group seems to be a collection of hiccups, breakages, fails, etc.
You have to ask yourself whether the aim is to make a 3D printer and get it working for the satisfaction of it, or whether it is to actually print some parts.
I'll watch what happens in the group with interest.

Ken.

[Steven Pickles]

The RAMPS electronics is the most modular, I think. It's a shield that sits on an arduino mega, and has heaters to take pololu stepper drivers (or clones).

I'd like at least one RAMPS kit to inevitably replace my Makerbot electronics, or maybe to make a cartesian robot out of scanners.

http://reprap.org/wiki/RAMPS

pix

[Steven Pickles]

Truth be told, one of the reasons I inflicted the RepRap on the group was the amount of tinkering necessary ;) Although I was expecting the kit to be of higher production quality. That is why I am now suggesting to Scott that he sources his own parts. Some of the trickier parts to source are in the extruder, and fortunately, the great Vik Oliver is now selling Mendel extruders through DiamondAge:

http://diamondage.co.nz/?page_id=161

pix

[Steven Pickles]

The quick release for this extruder (which is actually in this thing http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11731) looks a lot like the one I use on my printer: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7113

It's a good idea, saves a lot of futzing around with tension on the filament drive between filament swaps.

pix

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[Scott B]

looks exactly like the feeder on my MIG welder.... Has anyone looked
in to using hardened knurled wheels from a MIG? - the bigger dia
should give a nice 'bight', and they will never wear out.



On Jun 1, 1:05 pm, Steven Pickles <thatpix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The quick release for this extruder (which is actually in this thinghttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11731) looks a lot like the one I use on

> my printer:http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7113
>
> It's a good idea, saves a lot of futzing around with tension on the
> filament drive between filament swaps.
>
> pix
>

> On 1 June 2012 13:17, Jonathan Wheare <jonathanwhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This may be of interest - it is a more or less standard extruder that has
> >  been modified with a quick release to allow filament to be rapidly
> > inserted or removed.

> >http://www.thingiverse.com/**thing:12320<http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12320>

>
> > I have also stumbled over another aluminium mendel design that could be
> > useful:

> >http://www.thingiverse.com/**thing:16076<http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16076>

>
> > J.
>
> > On 01/06/12 13:11, Scott B wrote:
>
> >> Good Idea, that was the thinking behind our modular stepper drivers
> >> etc. If a machine goes down you want to be able to quickly and easily
> >> swap parts out with another machine or spares to diagnose problems.
>
> >> RC hobby connectors would be great for things that require a bit of
> >> current (bed and tip heaters) The rest should be able to be done with
> >> a normal mulit-pole connectors, we would just have to come up with a
> >> wiring standard and stick to it.
>
> >> On Jun 1, 12:31 pm, Paul Schulz<pschul...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>> ... also keen on developing a modular reprap print head to improve
> >>> reliability. Eg if one gets clogged can swap it for another and fix in
> >>> slow
> >>> time. (Need source of heatsink/fan combination, and to find a suitable
> >>> connector/socket.)
> >>> On Jun 1, 2012 12:55 PM, "Scott B"<solar.sen...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>  and yeah, I am expecting to make most of the frame on the CNC mill -
> >>>> although I have a AC Tig I would most likely go for a bolt together
> >>>> design so that warping isn't an issue, and an updated parts can be
> >>>> bolt on/off.
> >>>> This is what it can pump out in a couple of hours once its up and

> >>>> runninghttp://farm5.**staticflickr.com/4099/**
> >>>> 4763653932_49edd8474d_b.jpg<http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4099/4763653932_49edd8474d_b.jpg>

> >>>> (cat not included)
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> >>>> "HackerSpace - Adelaide, South Australia" group.

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[Steven Pickles]

I think the only exploration of repurposing welding parts is using tips as nozzles, but now purpose built nozzles are not too hard to come by (and welding tips generally only go down to 0.6mm). Hobbing bolts with a dremel cutting disk seems to be a common mothod of getting a knurled bolt for driving the filament. There are even some printable jigs on thingiverse for just this. I doubt that wear is a problem with metal driving plastic. The problem is normally ground off plastic filling the knurls, but it doesn't happen often. I clean off mine whenever my drive is open, but I've never had to open it just to clean it.

pix

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[Scott B]

What are the thoughts on a heater bed design?

Are the Huxleys an etched PCB, or resistors, for the heat source?

On Jun 1, 1:29 pm, Steven Pickles <thatpix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the only exploration of repurposing welding parts is using tips as
> nozzles, but now purpose built nozzles are not too hard to come by (and
> welding tips generally only go down to 0.6mm). Hobbing bolts with a dremel
> cutting disk seems to be a common mothod of getting a knurled bolt for
> driving the filament. There are even some printable jigs on thingiverse for
> just this. I doubt that wear is a problem with metal driving plastic. The
> problem is normally ground off plastic filling the knurls, but it doesn't
> happen often. I clean off mine whenever my drive is open, but I've never
> had to open it just to clean it.
>
> pix
>

> > To post to this group, send email to hackerspac...@googlegroups.com

> > .
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > hackerspace-adel...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at

[Steven Pickles]

If you want to go the PCB route, I recently bought a huge roll of aluminium tape which should work as a heat spreader.

pix

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[Scott B]

If we can buy a standard one off the shelf for a reasonable price then
I would probably prefer to go that route - otherwise it will end up
being a +6 month project before we squirt our first bit of plastic.

On Jun 1, 1:44 pm, Steven Pickles <thatpix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you want to go the PCB route, I recently bought a huge roll of aluminium
> tape which should work as a heat spreader.
>

> [image: Inline images 1] <http://www.flickr.com/photos/_xiq/7312473308/>
>
> pix

[Steven Pickles]

i imagine we could get a pcb heater fabbed like any other pcb, no? just a pit pricier because of the size. you probably have the means to drill and tap mounting holes for resistors in a thin aluminium heater bed.

pix

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[Jonathan Wheare]

I believe we will be running the Huxley without a heated bed on
Saturday. If it goes well you may be able to avoid the problem
completely, at least with PLA.

J.

[Damien P]

On Jun 1, 12:11 pm, Paul Schulz <p...@mawsonlakes.org> wrote:
> Please count me in.. although at this stage I am really interested in
> a 'whiteboard' writing bot.
> (I'll need stepper motors and a controller).

I'll have to give this a shot one day too. I've got some regular
motors with gearboxes on them. They're probably a bit slow but
they'll do for starters.

One thing I thought about with steppers is they might not have the
holding torque when the string is almost horizontal.

[Damien P]

On Jun 1, 12:17 pm, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Strong simple frame

Some of the ones shown on the page that Robert posted the other day
[1] seem to have very few parts. They replace the frames with laser-
cut acrylic or go without a frame (Printrbot style) [3].

1: http://www.3ders.org/
2: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120529-vision-3d-printer-an-optimized-reprap-prusa-mendel-on-kickstarter.html
3: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120102-parametric-printrbot-variant-new-reprap-3d-printer.html

[Scott B]

the printrbot looks like a nice solution.

On Jun 1, 7:38 pm, Damien P <athe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 1, 12:17 pm, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Strong simple frame
>
> Some of the ones shown on the page that Robert posted the other day
> [1] seem to have very few parts.  They replace the frames with laser-
> cut acrylic or go without a frame (Printrbot style) [3].
>
>  1:http://www.3ders.org/

>  2:http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120529-vision-3d-printer-an-optimized...
>  3:http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120102-parametric-printrbot-variant-n...

[Scott B]

Is anyone planning on making it to the meeting tomorrow?

I'm keen to get the ball rolling and look at ordering a bulk pack of
motors - anyone seen a better price than this?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/704350/209748576-423237714/10pcs-NEMA17-78-Oz-in-CNC-stepper-motor-stepping-motor-1-8A.html

And some linear bearings (from about $1 ea for 8mm ones) and some
ground shaft to suit (still looking for a cheap source - possibly
ejector pins).

[Steven Pickles]

I'll be in tomorrow.

[Tamsyn Michael]

@ Ken

If you're after a low effort / low cost 3D printer a friend of mine ordered this a few weeks ago:
http://www.solidoodle.com/

$500 from the States.  I can give you an update on how it goes if you like.

[Ken]

Thanks Tamsyn, I did see that one on the net.
The website still talks about pre-order, which makes it pretty risky, I reckon.

Ken.

[Tamsyn Michael]

:) - I'll let you know if my friend's investment disappears in a cloud of smoke.

[Scott B]

Starting to come together:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8022/7314797204_f29e4c3242_b.jpg

On Jun 1, 9:15 pm, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j.mich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> :) - I'll let you know if my friend's investment disappears in a cloud of
> smoke.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Ken <k...@waggies.net> wrote:
> > Thanks Tamsyn, I did see that one on the net.
> > The website still talks about pre-order, which makes it pretty risky, I
> > reckon.
>
> > Ken.
>

[Steven Pickles]

The printrbot design has been folded back into the RepRap family under the name Wallace: http://reprap.org/wiki/Wallace

The Vision printer looks like a pretty sensible mendel variant (if you have a laser cutter). Acrylic is not a terribly cheap medium though.

pix

[Steven Pickles]

Hey John, was there supposed to be some content in this email?

pix

On 1 June 2012 19:45, indigo <susanj...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Jun 1, 12:04 pm, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been having a bit of a chat to Pix behind the scenes regarding
> building/purchasing my own 3D printer.
>
> At the moment we are looking at the possibility of building a

> something like a MendelMax (http://reprap.org/wiki/MendelMax) -

> using the reprap software and compatible electronics, but with my own
> aluminium tube based frame and components to hopefully end up with a
> higher quality machine than some of the questionable Huxley/Mendel
> kits that are currently available.
>
> We may also choose to make our own compatible main board that will
> allow modular plug in stepper motor drivers and seperate power
> supplies for the controls, hot end and heated bed - plent of options
> to discuss yet.
>
> So If anyone else is currently looking at building/buying a machine
> also, stick your hand up – if you want to get on board we can group
> buy the motors, drivers etc.  and work together on the development -
> if I am going to fire up the CNC Mill/Lathe to make one part for mine,
> I mght as well press the 'Start' button a few more times a make a
> few...

[Damien P]

n Jun 2, 1:34 am, Steven Pickles <thatpix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Vision printer looks like a pretty sensible mendel variant (if you have
> a laser cutter). Acrylic is not a terribly cheap medium though.

I'm sure plywood cut with a scroll saw would work just as well - it
just won't look as cool!

[Robert Hart]

Came across this

http://maschinenringraum.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/articulated-plotting-robot-for-10.html

[Steven Pickles]

on the topic of the vision printer, a critique in the form of a
thingiverse entry:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:24070

also links to another 3d printer crowdfunded project:
http://www.indiegogo.com/tantillus/

pix

[Tamsyn Michael]

Cool!  If this becomes a thing, then I'd love to become involved (ie go in for a share of parts) - especially if it's that cheap.  I may do the drawing robot, but then again I might make an arm for a beer fetching robot.  We'll see.  :)

[Damien P]

On Jun 2, 12:24 am, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Starting to come together:http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8022/7314797204_f29e4c3242_b.jpg

Here's an idea for simplifying the Y (?) axis (the one with the bed on
it). You could put the motor in the base (as you've done for the Z
axis), and instead of using a belt, use a rack and pinion instead.
Put a small gear on the motor shaft, and if that's not precise enough,
add a few more gears. Attach the rack to the bed. This avoids the
belt, which simplifies the assembly and avoids problems with the belt
stretching during use, which seems to cause blobs on the printed
object. You also won't have any belt wheels that can snap, which will
save a few parts.

[Steven Pickles]

There are some herringbone rack and pinion designs on thingiverse for just this purpose... (would link but I'm on my phone)

[Kim Hawtin]

On 6/1/12, Damien P <ath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One thing I thought about with steppers is they might not have the
> holding torque when the string is almost horizontal.

this is where you want to unassemble old (referably dead) HP4 laser printers.
or even the old 8000 series. they have plenty of sturdy steppers in them =)

also someof the old scanners have decent steppers in them and a toothed belt.
keep the small gear on the stepper and put a much larger gear on the
output shaft.
you get the torque multiplication there for free ;)
i've see the double string drawing bots done this way to move much
larger "print heads" that would other wise be way to heavy.

cheers,

kim
--
"Art without engineering is dreaming; engineering without art is
calculating." --SKR

[Greg]

> and some ground shaft to suit.

I got 304 stainless 8mm bar from Senturion Steel on Cavan Road for the
15 printers I build last year.

Greg Frost

[Greg]

> Here's an idea for simplifying the Y (?) axis (the one with the bed on
> it).  You could put the motor in the base (as you've done for the Z
> axis), and instead of using a belt, use a rack and pinion instead.

The problem I see with this is avoiding backlash in the gearing setup.
I found you can get reasonably inexpensive MXL pullies and belts on
ebay which give excellent performance.

[Damien P]

On Jun 3, 2:49 pm, Greg <greg.fr...@baesystems.com> wrote:
> The problem I see with this is avoiding backlash in the gearing setup.

I guess I should have thought a bit more! I think the idea is worth
investigating, because it should reduce the part count. Maybe it's
possible to print a pair of gears with a built-in spring to reduce
backlash ([1])?

The Reprap Build System pages have some pages of a rack and pinion set
[2].

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backlash_(engineering)#Anti-backlash_designs
2: http://reprap.org/wiki/RBS/Gears

[Scott B]

Some cheap steppers from a local supplier:

http://ausxmods.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=74

its only half the torque of the usual NEMA17 though and it has a short
output shaft.

they also do pololu driver for under $15

A HK ebay seller is doing a complete RAMPS 1.4 board with 5 stepper
drivers and Mega for about $150 - very tempting as it would save a lot
of time.

[Greg]

Those look like the exact steppers on the 15 machines I built last
year. They are a little under powered, but can be made to work with
careful tuning, particularly if you use lm8uu linear bearings to make
the axes easier to move and limit the acceleration in the firmware.

For heat beds, a simple quick and cheap option is an iron attached to
an aluminium plate.
http://oi56.tinypic.com/21eoyhk.jpg

I got Greens Metals (near the ent centre) to make the 3mm alu plates
210x210mm for a good price.

That with a kapton coated glass plate on top makes an ideal build
platform.

On Jun 3, 8:44 pm, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Some cheap steppers from a local supplier:
>

> http://ausxmods.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&produ...

[Greg]

I had to re-design some of the parts to get those short shafted motors
to work (the extruder, X-end motor and Y motor bracket). My xend motor
design is now part of the standard prusa2, and most people use my
extruder.

[Damien P]

On Jun 3, 8:44 pm, Scott B <solar.sen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A HK ebay seller is doing a completeRAMPS1.4 board with 5 stepper

> drivers and Mega for about $150 - very tempting as it would save a lot
> of time.

I'm surprised at the cost of these boards, I didn't expect that to be
such a substantial part of the build.

[Scott B]

Same guy is now selling a batch of 10 for $1000 - that is 10x mega's,
10 Shields and 50 step-sticks.... basically getting the shield for
free at that price.

I'm tempted to email him and see if he will do a similar price for a
batch of 5 (plus a few temp sensors - $1.50ea) - just to make sure we
don't

Ill take two of the board myself - have we got 3 other takers?

[Steven Pickles]

I'll take one set.

pix

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of Steven Pickles on 06/04/12 22:19:

> I'll take one set.

One for me too.

--
Tim Aslat <t...@spyderweb.com.au>
Spyderweb Consulting
http://www.spyderweb.com.au
Mobile: +61 0401088479

[Jonathan Wheare]

On 05/06/12 08:35, Tim Aslat wrote:
> In the immortal words of Steven Pickles on 06/04/12 22:19:
>> I'll take one set.
>
> One for me too.
>

I'm interested in a set as well.

J.

[Paul Schulz]

+1 (I'm also interested in the stepper motors)

>
> J.

[Steve Roehrs]

Interesting link on Slashdot today re 3D printers :

http://singularityhub.com/2012/06/04/3d-printing-is-the-future-of-manufacturing-and-neri-oxman-shows-how-beautiful-it-can-be/

 

 (Also see the links at the end)

Steve

[Scott B]

Ebay guy as offered:

5 set for 110 usd each plus 20 usd shipping by fedex, the thermistors
i can add for free (10 off)

Works out to about AU$120 ea delivered depending on the exchange rate.

They should be here by the end of the week.

On Jun 5, 8:44 am, Paul Schulz <p...@mawsonlakes.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Jonathan Wheare
>

> >http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace-adelaide?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jonathan Wheare]

OK, I'm in.

J.

[Peter Wintulich]

Hello Scott,

I will go in as well please.

Regards Peter W.

On 05/06/12 10:31, Jonathan Wheare wrote:
> OK, I'm in.
>
> J.
>
>
> 05/06/12 10:29, Scott B wrote:
>> Ebay guy as offered:
>>
>> 5 set for 110 usd each plus 20 usd shipping by fedex, the thermistors
>> i can add for free (10 off)
>>
>> Works out to about AU$120 ea delivered depending on the exchange rate.
>>
>> They should be here by the end of the week.

--

Peter Wintulich

Voicetronix Pty. Ltd.
Level 1, 246 Pulteney Street,
ADELAIDE 5000
South Australia
AUSTRALIA
+61 8 8232 9112

[Scott B]

Peter, This first batch of 5 might be all spoken for already by the
looks....Including my spare =(.

Might be worth waiting a couple days for these to arrive, and as long
as they all test ok (I'm sure they will) we can no doubt get another
batch for the same or better price direct from the seller.

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of Scott B on 06/05/12 10:39:

> Peter, This first batch of 5 might be all spoken for already by the
> looks....Including my spare =(.
>
> Might be worth waiting a couple days for these to arrive, and as long
> as they all test ok (I'm sure they will) we can no doubt get another
> batch for the same or better price direct from the seller.

How do we get cash to you for this?

Cheers

Tim

[Scott B]

Cash on collection of goods is fine with me. That can either be at the
next meeting, or you can arrange to meet me at work(Norwood)/
home(Greenacres) once they arrive if you want to get your hands on
them eariler.

[Scott B]

What are peoples thoughs on the steppers?

We can either get in a few of the cheap ($8 ea plus $10 delivery) ones
from the local supplier - which may be a bit down on torque and have a
short shaft... Or just get some of the 'proper' full torque and long
shaft ones from china for about $15 delivered...but they may take a
few weeks to get here.

Personally I'm thinking eventually I would like the full torque
NEMA17's on my X,Y and Z axis, but I may look at getting a good
qualtiy smaller (NEMA14/) on my extruder(s) with appropriate gearing
to try and keep the weight of the head down.

I would also like to test the RAMPS boards as soon as they arrive to
make sure they are all ok - so having some steppers on hand sooner
rather than later would be handy for this - unless someone already has
some? or is willing to let us wire up a RAMPS board to their printer?

> > Mobile: +61 0401088479- Hide quoted text -

[Jonathan Wheare]

I would prefer paying a little extra for some NEMA style steppers.
Building a printer is complicated enough without adding extra problems.

There are some spare steppers in the cage - mostly ex-printer parts.
These should be fine for testing purposes.

J.

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of Scott B on 06/05/12 11:54:

> What are peoples thoughs on the steppers?
>
> We can either get in a few of the cheap ($8 ea plus $10 delivery) ones
> from the local supplier - which may be a bit down on torque and have a
> short shaft... Or just get some of the 'proper' full torque and long
> shaft ones from china for about $15 delivered...but they may take a
> few weeks to get here.
>
> Personally I'm thinking eventually I would like the full torque
> NEMA17's on my X,Y and Z axis, but I may look at getting a good
> qualtiy smaller (NEMA14/) on my extruder(s) with appropriate gearing
> to try and keep the weight of the head down.
>
> I would also like to test the RAMPS boards as soon as they arrive to
> make sure they are all ok - so having some steppers on hand sooner
> rather than later would be handy for this - unless someone already has
> some? or is willing to let us wire up a RAMPS board to their printer?

A friend of mine has a business repairing printers and fax machines, he
also has a considerable junk pile of scrapped machines, with steppers if
you are willing to pull them apart yourself.

He's also subscribed to the list so he should see this post.

Cheers

Tim


--
Tim Aslat <t...@spyderweb.com.au>

[Steven Pickles]

Don't put me down for steppers. I'll be hooking the RAMPS board up to my ToM eventually, or maybe my junky scanner bits.

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[Scott B]

I was thinking the same thing - would rather pay the extra $5ea up
front and know that it only has to be tuned once and we have plenty of
torque on tap, than go the cheap option which may lead to marginal
results and lots of headaches down the track.

So if I can get hold of 10 full torque NEMA17's for $15-$20ea I'm sure
we would have enough takers here to offload any ones that I don't use
myself...

Also looking for some round NEMA14's - combined with some Trex 450 (RC
helicopter) main and tail gears I can see a light, smooth and cheap
extruder driver coming together.

> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Ken]

Here is a dumb question from an interested party on the side...

If you hand-roll movement bits, eg the extruder, how do you calibrate the software for the home-grown step vs movement values?

Ken.
 

[Scott B]

One would imgine there is a calibration factor you can adjust - how
many steps per MM of plastic to be layed down... no doubt the guys
familiar with the software can confirm.

RAMPS boards have been ordered - $120.51 deleviered by the looks -
better order some steppers before the dollar drops any more =(

On Jun 5, 11:50 am, Ken <k...@waggies.net> wrote:
> Here is a dumb question from an interested party on the side...
>
> If you hand-roll movement bits, eg the extruder, how do you calibrate the
> software for the home-grown step vs movement values?
>
> Ken.
>

> >http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace-adelaide?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[Jonathan Wheare]

The Sprinter firmare that we have for the Huxley has several default step settings measured in steps per milimeter.  If you use the same timing belts and gears as a standard printer, you can just pick the default.  These values can be overridden at runtime by senting a gcode to the driver board with the updated step size.
For example the x-axis of Hackerspaces Huxley has 80 steps per milimeter.

J.

[Steven Pickles]

As another example, by Makerbot has a few customisations which change
the step size of some of the axes, and I change these values in an
xml configuration file. It does create some annoyances with not being
able to use other peoples skeinforge profiles easily, but it is
workable at a software level.

pix

[Jonathan Wheare]

On 05/06/12 12:17, Scott B wrote:
> I was thinking the same thing - would rather pay the extra $5ea up
> front and know that it only has to be tuned once and we have plenty of
> torque on tap, than go the cheap option which may lead to marginal
> results and lots of headaches down the track.
>
> So if I can get hold of 10 full torque NEMA17's for $15-$20ea I'm sure
> we would have enough takers here to offload any ones that I don't use
> myself...
>
> Also looking for some round NEMA14's - combined with some Trex 450 (RC
> helicopter) main and tail gears I can see a light, smooth and cheap
> extruder driver coming together.

OzRepRap are selling T2.5 gears and belts. Hackerspaces Huxley has one
of its gears on the X-axis

http://ozreprap.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2

They are also selling Nema 17s for around $20. I would be inclined to
do some business with them where possible to encourage local suppliers.

J.

[Paul Schulz]

Scott B: Please put me down for 5 NEMA14 stepper motors.

[Scott B]

RAMPS boards:
Fedex
Estimated delivery Jun 7, 2012 by 5:00 PM

If anyone wants them for the weekend perhaps make plans to catch up
with me at Sydenham rd Norwood (in office hours) on friday to collect
- I don't think Ill have time to make it to the 24 hour hack session.

> >http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace-adelaide?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[Scott B]

Anyone want anything from Bilbycnc?
http://www.bilbycnc.com.au/default.asp

Nema 17 $20ea
Nema 11 (for extruder) $25
they also do fillament, belts, pulley etc.

Free postage for orders over $250 - I would almost be there once I get
my steppers and a few bits.

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace-adelaide?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Ryan Leach]

Ill grab an lm8uu bearing if you dont mind.

[Scott B]

Sorry, I managed to hit the free postage amount myself by the time I
got some fillament and a few spares, so I sent the order off earlier
today.

I will however most likely be order a heap of linear bearings shortly
so I should have some spare if you are not in a rush for it.

On Jun 6, 5:07 pm, Ryan Leach <ryan.the.le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ill grab an lm8uu bearing if you dont mind.

> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/hackerspace-adelaide?hl=en.-Hidequotedtext -

>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > --
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> > To post to this group, send email to hackerspac...@googlegroups.com
> > .

> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > hackerspace-adel...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at

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[Ryan Leach]

No rush just an eventual upgrade.

[Greg]

These pulleys are good and inexpensive (But you need to drill the bore
out to 5mm). The same seller has one with a 5.08mm bore. Not sure how
that would go on a 5mm shaft (I use drilled out pullies).

MXL belt is pretty cheap too.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MXL-TIMING-BELT-PULLEYS-0-08-PITCH-SIZE-15-10-PCS-/320878756147?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab5dd4133

[Scott B]

Yeah that is a good price, pity he doesn't do an XL/T5 ones the MXL
would probably be fine on smaller units (Huxley and lighter), but may
be a bit undersized for a larger machine?

On Jun 7, 6:52 pm, Greg <greg.fr...@baesystems.com> wrote:
> These pulleys are good and inexpensive (But you need to drill the bore
> out to 5mm). The same seller has one with a 5.08mm bore. Not sure how
> that would go on a 5mm shaft (I use drilled out pullies).
>
> MXL belt is pretty cheap too.
>

> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MXL-TIMING-BELT-PULLEYS-0-08-PITCH-SIZE-15...

[Scott B]

The RAMPS kits have just arrived. Each nicely packaged in their own
'lunch box'.

The stepper boards look a little grubby (flux residue) and I want to
have a closer look a the soldering on the small surface mount IC, but
generally the quality looks fine.

Come and grab them if you want one.

[Jonathan Wheare]

Thanks for letting us know that they have arrived. Unfortunately I
can't make it out to Norwood today.
Will you be at the Wednesday hacksession next week? What method of
payment would you prefer?

J.

[Scott B]

Cash on collection is easiest - much easier to keep track of who has
paid for/received their kit.
I'll reserve a kit for you, and I should be there Wednesday.

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of Scott B on 06/08/12 12:20:

> The RAMPS kits have just arrived. Each nicely packaged in their own
> 'lunch box'.
>
> The stepper boards look a little grubby (flux residue) and I want to
> have a closer look a the soldering on the small surface mount IC, but
> generally the quality looks fine.
>
> Come and grab them if you want one.

Will you be at the big hacksession on Sunday? If not, then I'll have
top pick mine up next Wednesday.



--
Tim Aslat <t...@spyderweb.com.au>

[Scott B]

Unlikely to be there on the weekend, but if I happen to make it I'll
be sure to bring them with me.

On Jun 8, 12:18 pm, Tim Aslat <t...@spyderweb.com.au> wrote:
> In the immortal words of Scott B  on 06/08/12 12:20:
>
> > The RAMPS kits have just arrived. Each nicely packaged in their own
> > 'lunch box'.
>
> > The stepper boards look a little grubby (flux residue) and I want to
> > have a closer look a the soldering on the small surface mount IC, but
> > generally the quality looks fine.
>
> > Come and grab them if you want one.
>
> Will you be at the big hacksession on Sunday?  If not, then I'll have
> top pick mine up next Wednesday.
>
> --
> Tim Aslat <t...@spyderweb.com.au>

[Scott B]

My box if bits just arrived from BilbyCNC

Included is various stepper motors and wires to suit the RAMPS board,
limit switches, a few hot end parts, and some T5 belts and pulleys.

I am a little disappointed in the slop between the T5 belt and pulley,
perhaps the imperial ones are better?

I also have a 1.5kg reel of 1.75mm Black PLA - I'm happy to swap
part reels of various colors if anyone wants some black?

Planning to bring it all along Wednesday so we can start some testing.

[Scott B]

Just had 20 of them arrive - so if your still after one... they worked out to about $1ea inc delivery.

[Damien P]

I've created a simulator for a machine that draws on a whiteboard (or poster etc).  The machine will have a motor at the top corners of a board, and suspend a pen by strings.  You tell it if you want the pen down or up, and tell it how much to turn each motor by, which is how I expect the computer to communicate with the controller that drives the motors.  I expect to use this simulator for writing code that turns a specially crafted SVG into motor commands.

Check it out here - with Java installed, you should be able to double-click on the jar, or use "java -jar ...":

https://github.com/downloads/damien-hackadl/whiteboard/whiteboard-simulator-1.0-SNAPSHOT-jar-with-dependencies.jar

(The download is far too big, it turns out the timing library I used pulled a huge amount of dependencies.  This is just a demo, so I'm not going to bother trying another one.)

Type commands in the top bar, like this: M -0.5 2.  This means Move the left motor anticlockwise by 0.5 radians, and the right motor anticlockwise by 2 radians (positive numbers lengthen the string, negative to shorten).  Use D instead of M to draw a line.  If the Go button doesn't do anything, the command is probably wrong.

I wondered for a while why I bothered working out the maths to drive this, but I'll need the same maths to convert an svg into motor commands anyway.

The code is on github too.

There are similar projects around too:

http://spritesmods.com/?art=whiteboard
http://tinkerlog.com/2011/09/02/der-kritzler/

[Paul Schulz]

Hi Damien,

I am interested in this.. will be looking into what you have don in
the near future. (There must be some holidays coming up sometime.)

I would love to have a whiteboard robot running at Science Alice..
particularly if we could monitor IRC or Tweets with it.

Cheers,
Paul

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[Damien P]

On Monday, July 9, 2012 12:18:28 PM UTC+9:30, Paul Schulz wrote:

I would love to have a whiteboard robot running at Science Alice..

I was thinking of getting it going in time for this too.  I'd better hurry up! Does anyone want to work on the hardware for this?  I've got a few DC motors from Ken that have worm gears attached to them.  I should see how much current they draw; if I'm lucky I won't need H-bridges.  I'd need to add a way to detect how far the motors have moved.  I have a half disassembled laser fax machine, that seems to have them in strange places.

I thought of using steppers, but I suspect that holding torque could be an issue, and the worm gears won't budge when the machine isn't operating.  If the stepper stalls I have no idea what position it's in.

For the part that holds the pen, I was thinking of something like this (excuse my dodgy picture):

(if you don't get a picture, try http://imgur.com/JXwX1 )

The bit that holds the pen is a bit too complicated in the picture; instead maybe use some wood with a groove in it, and use a rubber band to hold the pen on.  It can take any size pen that way.  It still needs something to stop the pen sliding backwards - something adjustable would be nice.

The "mass" is something significantly heavier than the pen.  It should probably have something pointy on the front, so if it rubs against the board it doesn't rub everything out.

We'd also need a frame to hold the motors.  Wood or aluminium should do.  It would just need a horizontal part that sits on the board, and some vertical parts to press against the wall and stop the thing falling forward.
 

particularly if we could monitor IRC or Tweets with it.

Would we get a data connection with lots of other people's phones there?

[Damien P]

On Monday, July 9, 2012 7:14:41 PM UTC+9:30, Damien P wrote:

I should see how much current they draw; if I'm lucky I won't need H-bridges. 

Hmm, no luck.  They draw 120mA under no load, and about 500mA under load.

[Steven Pickles]

I have a DC motor with a built in opto. But only one sorry. It's from a laser printer I think. Got it at one of Adam Webb's dismantleothons.

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[Steven Pickles]

Also in your setup torque issues can be largely overcome with counter weights. I think Jon mentioned this previously.

[Paul Schulz]

Just when you thought that you'd don enough trigonometry..

- What about adding a third motor/cable and having a 3d bot?

- This could be hung from the top of the Science Alive booth.

Not sure what we could make it do though.

[Steven Pickles]

they had something like this at one of the riaus events, with three people controlling the three servos and they had to pick up something with a hook, if i recall.

pix

[Damien P]

On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:01:43 PM UTC+9:30, Paul Schulz wrote:

Just when you thought that you'd don enough trigonometry..

Trying to remember the year 11 maths wasn't easy!
 

- What about adding a third motor/cable and having a 3d bot?

- This could be hung from the top of the Science Alive booth.

Not sure what we could make it do though.

Squirt expanding foam? (I have a feeling I'll regret making this suggestion...)

[Tamsyn Michael]

*giggles* - silly string?

[Damien P]

The host software is getting there:

[Scott B]

A bit more progress last night. Ordered 5m of 8mm threaded rod from small-parts - I will need less than a meter my self, so plenty left over if others want some. In the same package is 2m of 'silver steel' shafting, hopefully it should run smoother than standard stainless rod.

Meanwhile I have ordered various bearings and couplers from ebay.

Still deciding on the frame construction. 30mm T-slot section is out of stock at the local supplier at the moment, its about $25/m. Or I may just weld up a frame from standard alloy channel - which would probably cost less than $25 for the whole printer - but it requires drilling and tapping every time I want to attach something to the frame =(

[Peter Wintulich]

I have available a quantity of Aluminium Square U channel 12mm x 12mm
with wall thickness about 1.6mm and about 770mm long.
You are welcome to some.

Peter

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ADELAIDE 5000
South Australia
AUSTRALIA
+61 8 8232 9112

[Ben Kramer]

What kind of pricing do you think could be done with the bulk buy ?

Cheers,

Ben.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Bront <br...@iinet.net.au> wrote:

Absolute newbie to Hackerspace...
Saw your stand and RepRaps at Science Alive Adelaide.  I have been researching RepRaps for a year or so and as I don't have a lot of spare time, I am looking for full kits that will work well aand are ready to build.
Is anyone thinking of buying a wholesale lot (10 min) of RepRapPro Mendel (http://reprappro.com/Mendel) or Huxley (http://reprappro.com/Huxley)?  The retail price is US$779 posted for the Mendel and US$679 for the smaller Huxley.  I like the larger Mendel version and would be willing to get wholesale pricing and organise the order if there are enough interested in Adelaide or Oz in general.

Let me know your thoughts.

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[Scott B]

That may come in handy. I am toying with the idea of using normal roller bearings running in U channel rather than linear bearings for the Y axis.

4x8x3 bearings would probably run nicely in that - I would have one in each corner of the bed, plus one at the middle of each side that is offset slightly higher and spring loaded (using the stiffness of FR4) to take up the slop - 8mm bearings running in a 8.8mm slot.

I would also need 4 bearings laying flat to handle the sideways movement.