Re: How can i contact with the developers?
Scott Merrill
> Sorry for my late reply. I'd said that I would ask 4-5 questions; but my
> friends have also contributed, so there are more than 5 questions. If you
> have not enough time, you may not answer all of them. Thank you very much
> for your interest.
Hi Hasan.
Thanks for contacting us. I've forwarded your questions to the Habari
project team, and have collected their replies, which you will find
below. I'm CCing the habari-users mailing list, so that they can see
our answers, too! Please feel free to select the responses you wish to
publish in your article. If you have any additional questions, or need
anything clarified, please do not hesitate to contact me / us.
Cheers,
Scott
The current complete list of project members is:
chrisdmitri (http://chrisjdavis.org/)
rbowen2000 (http://wooga.drbacchus.com/)
smerrill (http://skippy.net/)
epithet (http://asymptomatic.net/)
randy.walker (http://randywalker.net/)
jaypipes (http://www.jpipes.com/)
nemo8686 (http://caius.name/)
brokenkode (http://www.brokenkode.com/)
moeffju (http://www.moeffju.net/)
lairmail (http://lair.fierydragon.org/)
umbrae (http://www.umbrae.net/)
sylvermoon (http://bytehavenwebworks.com/)
matt.r.read (http://www.mattread.com/)
> 1. What is the advantage of Habari's object oriented programming for the
> end-users?
* moeffju:
If by "end users" you mean people who "just" use the software without
ever dabbling in theme or plugin creation, then there is no direct
benefit for them. Indirectly, everyone benefits from a clean codebase,
though: If it's easier to develop for the platform, there will be more
choice for the end-user, whether it's themes or plugins. A clean and
modular codebase also makes it easier for new people to join the project.
* epithet:
Object-oriented code requires more mental discipline during its
initial construction than traditional top-down coding. The result of
the extra work is more modular code that is easier to understand and
extend. End users will never need to know that the code is object
oriented to reap the additional benefits that developers will be able
to provide as a result.
There are other benefits to Habari's coding standards beyond OOP,
including a commitment to inline documentation. Something crazy like
30% of the overall size of the code is currently documentation.
Standardizing on the next important version of PHP gives Habari an
advantage as well.
* lairmail:
It depends largely on the type of end user.
Plugin authors and theme developers benefit from not having to worry
about global variables and (in my personal opinion) the cleaner
structure of code in an object oriented system.
If you just need to run a blog? Then there is no direct benefit; but
the focus on a design upfront helps bring about cleaner code. In
theory, at least. How well this works in practice is something you
should judge for yourself by looking at the Habari code.
* chrisdmitri
I would say that average end users will reap the benefits of our object
model every time they load a page, or publish an entry. Habari is
considerably faster than any other blog/CMS I have used and a large
reason for that is the lean, object oriented code we have written.
* smerrill
Object oriented programming provides a lot of flexibility "under the
hood". While end-users won't directly make use of this flexibility,
developers can use this to make the end-user experience better. Our
object model allows developers to create new post types easily (think
podcasting, video, etc) and the Habari internals will all _just work_.
The end user will be freed from juggling some of the more complex
plugins in other blog solutions.
> 2. Some of the developers of Habari were contributing to WordPress at past.
> What are the most important reasons for you, for leaving WordPress, and
> starting Habari Project? Were you bothered because of WordPress team's
> commercial activities?
* sylvermoon:
Personally, my reasons for looking away from WordPress are several-fold:
1. While commercial activities aren't bad in and of themselves even in
supposedly "open source" software, covert commercial activities (that
is, those which the wider userbase discovers only by accident) are
distasteful in the extreme. I have a hard time recommending software to
clients where anything hidden goes on.
2. WordPress migrated from a mostly team-oriented development affair
into a dictatorship, where only the "name" associated with the software
makes any decisions, and quite frequently in my view they're the wrong
decisions.
3. WordPress, instead of being continued in development in one direction
has now two branches. The "old" branch in my viewpoint should have been
made as solid as possible rather than the developer chasing the newest
toys simply because he's far more interested in web20 than necessary -
all that "web20-ness" could quite well be done within the plugin
community rather than bloating the code with it and forcing it on those
for whom it's of no use whatsoever. The only reason I'm still using WP
on client sites is that the 2.0 "old" branch is still being supported -
presumably through early 2010 if the dev can be believed.
* epithet:
Being so involved in WordPress for the years prior to Habari makes
this a difficult, involved, and somewhat political question to answer.
Primarily, Habari is a group of people I like to work with. Working
within the Habari community feels like the early days of my
involvement with WordPress. I expect that Habari, like WordPress,
will have pains as it grows, but I trust that the people I'm doing
this with share my ideals for creating a truly open blogging platform,
and will help evolve the project in the direction that is best. It's
really the compact that Habari works with and the community that
agrees to it that makes Habari superior.
If WordPress could do anything that would have me consider them again,
it would be to release the WordPress code to the community under a
neutral custodial organization, rather than Automattic holding it
hostage for their own commercial use. The irony is that without the
leadership that Automattic provides, a truly open source WordPress
might not survive, for many of the same reasons that a fork of
WordPress would find it difficult to survive.
* chrisdmitri
As with epithet, this is a hard, messy question to answer. I was very
involved in the WP community for a number of years and still have a lot
of love for the community. As I have said before, I came to a place in
my understanding of OSS development that made it necessary to leave WP
and find something new. I wanted to develop in a community that was
open to everyone's input and rewarded hard work, regardless of who you
were. That is why I helped start Habari.
* smerrill
I was not bothered at all by the commercial activities surrounding
WordPress. If I had been, I would have argued strenuously against
Habari's use of the Apache Software License, which is arguably much more
business-friendly than the GNU Public License.
In my experience, WordPress is open source in name only. More
precisely, the WordPress code is, for most people, read-only. As time
goes by, the number of people who are able to meaningfully add new code
dwindles. Moreover, it seems to me that WordPress, as it gets older, has
developed an aversion to experimentation. It was for these reasons that
I was so excited to join the Habari team. We want to encourage (and
reward!) participation and experimentation.
> 3. There are lots of blogging systems in the world. What are the
> differences
> and advantages of Habari, and why people should use Habari instead of
> WordPress and other blog software?
* sylvermoon:
1. Habari is a built-from-the-ground-up blogging system. Other systems
seem to have been tacked onto over time without consideration of where
the software started, where it's been in the meantime, or where it's going.
Habari's coders are longtime blog software users. They spent many
months discussing what a "pipeline" schematic of a good blogging program
should look like, and that's what they're providing - unlike the "DIY
plumber" sort....
2. Habari uses state-of-the-art technology/backend programs rather than
relying (except for html4.0 *sigh*) on programs which if not already
dated will be soon. Forward thinking/forward moving is inherently
preferable, since "the internet is a fluid non-living organism which
changes on a micro-milliseconds basis" (I made that one up myself) -
which means no one's going to keep up with or on top of it, but living
in the past (php4 etc.) isn't wise....
3. I won't say "people should use Habari instead of WordPress" etc. I
will say that people should have a better choice of options from which
to select. And that I believe Habari is a better choice for many even
now in beta, and will be much more so in the future.
* moeffju:
Habari starts with a clean slate, is lean and mean and modular and
"agile". This gives us a chance to closely follow our users wishes and
current trends and letting people pick and choose their functionality
instead of just forcing a big, monolithic app on them.
* epithet:
Unlike anything already available, Habari was conceived after blogging
for the purposes of blogging. The other tools, while they may have
pioneered, are mostly continued addendum to existing code. Habari is
a ground-up construction with all of the knowledge of blogging already
existing.
Still, be practical - Habari might not be the best choice. People
should choose what they need based on what the software provides.
That said, Habari's flexibility of features gives it an impressive
resume for anyone who would use it for blogging. Our plans include
database-independence, a pluggable theme engine, built-in spam
protection, and bundled documentation. That combination of features
sets it apart from everything else that's available, and doesn't touch
on the robust API and PHP5 compatibility.
* lairmail:
Habari is built from the ground up, the developers are in a unique
position to assess and develop architectural solutions for problems
affecting bloggers today. People in the team are actively thinking
about issues such as spam prevention and statistics gathering right
now - instead of as an afterthought.
Habari is populated by people who blog fairly regularly and have
contributed actively to other blogging software. There are people
who've been building software for a while, published authors, members
of large open source project communities (like the ASF
[http://www.apache.org/foundation/]). There is a huge diversity of
experience and backgrounds; that helps immensely.
* chrisdmitri
The right tool for the right job. That is my motto. Habari leverages
new and exciting technology and methodologies. As others have stated,
we started with a clean slate code wise, and a much fuller understanding
of blogging. We want to make Habari the best software for a number of
different types of blogging, textual blogging, audio blogging, video
blogging. etc.
* smerrill
Folks should use the blogging solution that they feel best enables them
to blog. WordPress (and Serendipity, and Drupal, and all the others)
are fine choices. It is my opinion that Habari stays out of your way
more, which is something I seek in a blogging tool: I want to
concentrate on the writing, and not the tool.
Habari, currently, has a very strong focus on _blogging_. Many other
blogging tools veer off into "content management". I believe that
blogging is a subset of the latter; so while a content management system
can be used for blogging, a strong blog tool might not do a good job at
content management. The focus on blogging allows us to focus more
precisely on the needs and wants of bloggers, rather than trying to be
all things to all people.
> 4. What is your ideal; do you think that Habari will be the best and widely
> used blog publishing system in future? What will change in blogsphere after
> Habari?
* sylvermoon:
I would envision Habari opening the door to those who might be wanting
to get away from "canned" online blogging tools such as wordpress.com,
blogger, typepad et al, and who may be intimidated by the self-hosted
software blog setup situations, of which only WordPress can be classed
anywhere close to "simple" (and it's not really any more....)
While self-hosted WordPress for instance used to be an easy
less-than-5-minute install, I do not believe that now to be the case.
It is so for me, some of the time, but I have honestly got to the point
where I'll use Fantastico to install it for clients simply because it
works first time every time with that while I've had my problems with it
manually lately (especially with upgrades).
Habari's install routine even in beta is practically flawless and
foolproof, and I don't see that changing as release approaches. This
will make the program EXTREMELY attractive to those for whom installing
WordPress has become a nightmare (you only have to read the WP forum to
see how often that occurs!), and for those who, having looked at the
blog solutions within Drupal, ModX etc., are making wardsigns against
evil....
* moeffju:
While it would be nice if everyone loved Habari, it doesn't really make
a big difference to me. I like creating, and I like great programs, and
if we can make a few people happy with Habari, that's great. If we
convince some people that clean, modular code is a good thing, hooray.
But I have no big ambition of transforming the blogosphere - Habari is
just a tool, big changes come from people.
* epithet
I would love for Habari to have a userbase as large as even some of
the other smaller players in blog software. I would be thrilled to
have more. I will put Habari into the hands of as many people as I
can to let them try it, but it's not my goal to convert people. I
think that if our software doesn't sell them by itself, then we either
need to fix the software or narrow our niche audience.
* lairmail:
I have no idea if Habari will be the best and most used blogging
software. I'd certainly like it to be used by many. More importantly
to me, though - choice is a great thing and if Habari strikes the
right balance between being developer friendly and accessible to
people without a great deal of apriori technical knowledge - I'd
personally be very happy
The one change I'd hope for is that more people are compelled to blog
- because Habari makes it easier for them to do so. I'm just here to
build cool software - software that works for me and for countless
other people like me.
*chrisdmitri
I would love for Habari to reign supreme as the "bestest little blogging
tool in the interwebs", but the chances of that are not the best. What
I hope Habari does is help push the adoption of newer, exciting
technology like PHP 5. If we could get everyone running on PHP 5, that
woulb be enough for me personally.
* smerrill
I think that Habari will be a strong contender in the blogging space,
for a number of reasons. The well-documented code should make it easy
for would-be developers to join the project and affect development. The
open, forward-thinking design should make it easy for Habari to support
blogging standards that develop after the tools do (see for example how
complex it can be to get podcasting enabled in some solutions which were
designed before podcasting became popular). The Apache Software License
should make it easy to use Habari in business endeavors, without some of
the ambiguities associated with the GPL.
At the end of the day, though, if Habari advances the craft of blogging,
I will consider it a success. If Habari encourages other tools to
improve and innovate, I will consider it a success.
> 5. What are your thoughts about Movable Type's being open source?
* epithet:
I think it's great that Six Apart is offering MT4 as open source. I
don't think it will affect their bottom line, since their corporate
clients will be willing to pay for support anyway. And the folks that
use MT as a free offering will be happy not having to deal with
licensing as with the prior version. I'm curious what Six Apart plans
to do regarding support for open source MT though, since without it,
they'll be leaving all of those users in the lurch.
* lairmail:
The more the merrier.
* chrisdmitri
Having used MT in the past, this was a welcome surprise. The folks at
MT make a great product and I am realyl glad that they have taken this step.
* smerrill
I think it demonstrates the value of open source development. Passionate
users become passionate developers, and have a vested interest in the
success of the product. I'm glad that SixApart is going to encourage a
healthy community around their new open source project. I have no doubt
that the best ideas from MTOS will filter up to their commercial
projects -- I sincerely hope that ideas will flow the other way, too.
Otherwise they run the risk of being seen as using the open source
offering for a predatory purpose.
> 6. WordPress users may import their databases to their Habari blog. Well
> then, will it possible to use WordPress plugins and themes in Habari. (We
> know, Habari's codes are independent of WordPress) And also, will you
> prepare importing tools for the other blogging systems and services?
* moeffju:
I'm certain we'll get more importing tools. About plugin/theme level
compatibility, it's something I have thought about and while it is
possible, I'm not sure when it will be implemented, if ever. However,
both would be possible from a plugin, so anyone could go and implement
that feature.
* epithet
As far as I know, there are no official plans for using WordPress
plugins and themes in Habari at the moment. There has been some talk
about writing a theme engine that would support some great many
existing WordPress themes. I think we'd like to get a stable Habari
release finished before taking that on though. Of course, anyone who
wants to try developing it would have my support, and likely the
support of many others.
It's a good idea to include importing tools from other systems and
services, although I couldn't say at the moment which ones we might
include as part of a 1.0 launch.
* lairmail:
Will it be possible to use WordPress plugins and themes? I'd certainly
like that to happen. It would (if nothing else) make my forthcoming
task of porting a few custom WordPress plugins much easier. I don't
know of any such initiative in the works so far - but I'd certainly
support such a move.
Importing tools? I'd suggest that anyone who wants an importing tool
send a mail to the mailing list. Lots of the developers onboard thus
far seem to be from a WordPress background - but I'm sure it's a
matter of voicing interest to get an importer done for other blogging
software.
* chrisdmitri
I am assuming that once we are in full swing (meaning a 1.0 release) we
will start seeing more and more import plugins rise to the surface.
* smerrill
There have been a number of casual conversations about how to utilize
WordPress themes. It ought to be possible, with the aid of a helper
plugin and a new theme Engine, but no one has spent any real time
working on a specific implementation.
It's unlikely that WordPress plugins will work without modification.
For many WordPress plugins, it ought not be too difficult to translate
them into Habari plugins. We'll have thorough plugin and development
documentation to help plugin authors convert, and the mailing lists
are a fine place to discuss specific questions anyone might have.
As for importers: A successful importer really needs to know the
original system's database design, and we simply don't have the
experience with many other systems. I think we're all happy to help
with any problems folks might have developing importers, though, so it
ought not be overly taxing to create importers. Anyone interested in
importing from another system should subscribe to the habari-dev mailing
list and speak up!
> 7. How will Habari's localization support? (In WordPress, the localization
> teams translate some system files besides the language file. And the
> official WordPress package does not include any locale, this is a
> disadvantage for non-English users.)
* moeffju:
Personally, I want to offer different packages of Habari for download,
that would include localization, probably by region (so you'd have a
Western Europe package, for example, or a South American one). I also
want to keep all translations together where possible. Much of this is
still speculation though, as Habari is not readied for full localization
yet.
* epithet
I'm not the best to talk about this, and it's a case where I'm glad we
have such a diverse team whose individual interests can be met by
developing for the project. There are folks who developed
multilingual projects for WordPress who are anxious to help form
Habari's localization features, and I'm glad they're on board.
* chrisdmitri
The plans on the books are to let the people who know and are passionate
about this stuff have at it. We have had a number of people speak up
and offer thier services to us as translators. It should be exciting.
* smerrill
I think we all recognize the importance of providing full support to
non-English speakers. Blogging is not strictly an English-speaking
phenomenon! We've had a lot of people contact us to express a
willingness to help translate Habari into their language. We're still
working out how best to handle localization. When we finish that, the
specific langauge translations shouldn't take too long to produce.
Most of us on the Habari team are native English speakers, though, so
we're not entirely sure how best to distribute Habari to non-English
speakers. Anyone with an opinion on the matter should join one of our
mailing lists and make their suggestions!
> 8. When will you publish the stable release of Habari?
* moeffju:
When it's done :)
* epithet:
As soon as there are enough ponies to merit a stable.
* lairmail:
When it's done.
* chrisdmitri
We have a commitment, especially in these early days, to release when
its ready. We want to release something beautiful and as bug free as
possible. This means a bit more development and testing time than some
people are used to.
* smerrill
When it's done.
> 9. What do you think about the future of the blogs? Blogs are also very
> popular in Turkey nowadays. (e.g
> http://wordpress.com/blog/2007/07/02/june-wrap-up/, Matt says that "After
> English the top languages are Spanish, Turkish, Brazilian Portuguese,
> Italian, and Indonesian.") If you have a message to Turkish bloggers, we
> will be glad to hear them.
* sylvermoon:
Blogging is a great leveler. It gives everyone everywhere (except of
course where not allowed by repressive governments) a voice of his or
her own, a way to reach out to the world, to say "This is who I am,
these are my concerns, how can we change the world?"
The single most important thing about blogging and bloggers in my view
is that (excepting defamation or release of government secrets of
course!) there's no "shutting us up". Our messages will always have a
vehicle.... Unless every government in the world suddenly chooses to
act in concert to ban blogging, blogs and bloggers are here to stay.
* moeffju:
I wouldn't know how to answer that. I don't think blogs will be going
away any time soon, but I don't know how they might develop. The basic
concept only goes so far, I suppose.
The only Turkish I remember is "elmayim", which is probably misspelled,
but supposedly means "I am an apple". Does that count as a message? :)
* epithet:
There are a lot of problems to be solved with blogging before we can
close the book on development. Multilingual and non-English blogs are
two of these. Spam is another. Hopefully, opening our audience to
the former can have some influence on the latter, and I'd be happy to
have enabled any voice, no matter what language they use, to speak via
blog.
* chrisdmitri
I hope that blogs continue to be what they are so good at; a platform
for the everyperson to speak their mind. And my message for our friends
in Turkey: keep blogging!
* smerrill
Blogging is here to stay. What it will look like in another five years
is anyone's guess, but I hope that Habari will have had a positive
influence.
My message to the Turkish bloggers is: if you're unsatisfied with the
state of any other blogging tool, please work with us to make Habari
work for you!
--
GPG 9CFA4B35 | ski...@skippy.net | http://skippy.net/
Hasan Karaboga
Thank you and all other Habari developers very much for your answers, it's much appreciated. :)
We will publish that answers soon in our Turkish blog (news about blogs, bloggers and blog readers in Turkey - blogkazani.com) both in Turkish and English.
Thanks!
Hasan.
Hasan Karaboga wrote:
> Sorry for my late reply. I'd said that I would ask 4-5 questions; but my
> friends have also contributed, so there are more than 5 questions. If you
> have not enough time, you may not answer all of them. Thank you very much
> for your interest.
Hi Hasan.
Thanks for contacting us. I've forwarded your questions to the Habari
project team, and have collected their replies, which you will find
below. I'm CCing the habari-users mailing list, so that they can see
our answers, too! Please feel free to select the responses you wish to
publish in your article. If you have any additional questions, or need
anything clarified, please do not hesitate to contact me / us.
Cheers,
Scott
The current complete list of project members is:
chrisdmitri (http://chrisjdavis.org/)
rbowen2000 (http://wooga.drbacchus.com/)
smerrill (http://skippy.net/ )
epithet (http://asymptomatic.net/)
randy.walker (http://randywalker.net/)
jaypipes ( http://www.jpipes.com/)
nemo8686 (http://caius.name/)
brokenkode (http://www.brokenkode.com/)
moeffju ( http://www.moeffju.net/)
lairmail (http://lair.fierydragon.org/)
umbrae (http://www.umbrae.net/)
sylvermoon ( http://bytehavenwebworks.com/)