A bit of a proposal that we reevaluate the plugins in core and extras
before the .5 release.
I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, and
given some love. Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo
and Viddler silo are really core plugin material.
Perhaps also if the jWYSIWYG plugin is up to snuff, it gets moved to
core as well.
As I think the consensus is that .5 will be more of a beta release, I
think we really need to bundle plugins that most bloggers have come to
expect in functionality to be available to them out of the box.
To that end, I hope the pingback plugin gets some love before .5 is
released, I (perhaps haven't opened a ticket yet) have had some issue
posting with multiple pings and getting an error lately.
> A bit of a proposal that we reevaluate the plugins in core and extras > before the .5 release.
> I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, and > given some love. Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo > and Viddler silo are really core plugin material.
> Perhaps also if the jWYSIWYG plugin is up to snuff, it gets moved to > core as well.
> As I think the consensus is that .5 will be more of a beta release, I > think we really need to bundle plugins that most bloggers have come to > expect in functionality to be available to them out of the box.
> To that end, I hope the pingback plugin gets some love before .5 is > released, I (perhaps haven't opened a ticket yet) have had some issue > posting with multiple pings and getting an error lately.
I agree about including metaWeblog and some type of rich editor. I
would also add preapproved for sure (no one wants to have to approve
every comment), and possibly pingerupdate (pinging services is
important) and blogroll (people expect one).
On Mar 7, 11:28 am, Michael Heilemann <heilem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Might I suggest the textile (and perhaps markdown as well)?
> On 7 Mar 2008, at 14:55, Michael Bishop <miklb.onl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A bit of a proposal that we reevaluate the plugins in core and extras
> > before the .5 release.
> > I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, and
> > given some love. Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo
> > and Viddler silo are really core plugin material.
> > Perhaps also if the jWYSIWYG plugin is up to snuff, it gets moved to
> > core as well.
> > As I think the consensus is that .5 will be more of a beta release, I
> > think we really need to bundle plugins that most bloggers have come to
> > expect in functionality to be available to them out of the box.
> > To that end, I hope the pingback plugin gets some love before .5 is
> > released, I (perhaps haven't opened a ticket yet) have had some issue
> > posting with multiple pings and getting an error lately.
On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 05:55:36AM -0800, Michael Bishop wrote:
> A bit of a proposal that we reevaluate the plugins in core and extras > before the .5 release.
> I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, and > given some love.
I was talking to Rick Cockrum about this yesterday. I hope the metaweblog API becomes irrelevant and AtomPub replaces it. I recognise the client landscape isn't sufficient at the moment, but I've heard rumours about new clients, say, for the iPhone, in development. My concern (though it's small and I will not raise my voice again if people support the inclusion of the metaweblog plugin) is that it's backward looking, which doesn't fit Habari's desired image.
> Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo and Viddler silo > are really core plugin material.
I also had concerns about this but someone (ringmaster?) convinced me that it was reasonable to provide media silos for an image service and a video service.
> Perhaps also if the jWYSIWYG plugin is up to snuff, it gets moved to > core as well.
I think a wysiwyg editor of some kind would be an important core plugin. The jWYSIWYG plugin is very lightweight, given that we already bundle jquery. As for the plugin, I think the only thing lacking is to be resizable. jWYSIWYG itself may need some work but joksnet (the dev) seems to be on board. Once a jWYSIWYG tag has been made and an external set up I would strongly support its inclusion in core.
> As I think the consensus is that .5 will be more of a beta release, I > think we really need to bundle plugins that most bloggers have come to > expect in functionality to be available to them out of the box.
> To that end, I hope the pingback plugin gets some love before .5 is > released, I (perhaps haven't opened a ticket yet) have had some issue > posting with multiple pings and getting an error lately.
I agree it's a very important plugin, and it's been a bit flaky.
> > I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, and > > given some love.
> I was talking to Rick Cockrum about this yesterday. I hope the > metaweblog API becomes irrelevant and AtomPub replaces it. I recognise > the client landscape isn't sufficient at the moment, but I've heard > rumours about new clients, say, for the iPhone, in development. My > concern (though it's small and I will not raise my voice again if > people support the inclusion of the metaweblog plugin) is that it's > backward looking, which doesn't fit Habari's desired image.
This is a good point, but the other aspect is that Habari favors documented standards over impromptu developments from single entities. If there is a metaWebLog design / implementation spec, that would make it suitable for inclusion with Habari until APP (or our implementation) matures.
> > Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo and Viddler silo > > are really core plugin material.
> I also had concerns about this but someone (ringmaster?) convinced me > that it was reasonable to provide media silos for an image service and > a video service.
I think Flickr is the de facto image hosting service these days. They have a well defined API. I think it makes sense to bundle this. Its presence should not preclude core bundling of other image silos. I'd love to see a Gallery silo.
Viddler is on the cusp of user acceptance, I think (It's not as popular as YouTube), so a reasonable argument could be made that it doesn't belong. Echoing Michael's comments above, though, I think it's sufficiently forward-looking as to make it a reasonable candidate for inclusion.
> > To that end, I hope the pingback plugin gets some love before .5 is > > released, I (perhaps haven't opened a ticket yet) have had some issue > > posting with multiple pings and getting an error lately.
> I agree it's a very important plugin, and it's been a bit flaky.
> On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 05:55:36AM -0800, Michael Bishop wrote:
> > A bit of a proposal that we reevaluate the plugins in core and extras
> > before the .5 release.
> > I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, and
> > given some love.
> I was talking to Rick Cockrum about this yesterday. I hope the
> metaweblog API becomes irrelevant and AtomPub replaces it. I recognise
> the client landscape isn't sufficient at the moment, but I've heard
> rumours about new clients, say, for the iPhone, in development. My
> concern (though it's small and I will not raise my voice again if
> people support the inclusion of the metaweblog plugin) is that it's
> backward looking, which doesn't fit Habari's desired image.
Completely valid points, and certainly worthy of longer term goals. I
honestly wouldn't see this happening by a .5 release, and despite
backward looking, users rely on clients like Ecto, MarsEdit, and
Scribefire. Supporting those until Atom Pub filters down to the user
level would seem logical.
> > Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo and Viddler silo
> > are really core plugin material.
> I also had concerns about this but someone (ringmaster?) convinced me
> that it was reasonable to provide media silos for an image service and
> a video service.
My only concern with this is that they are service specific. I
personally do not like the idea of Habari coming across as "pushing"
specific, commercial services in an open source app. I would be
concerned about integrity and ulterior motive issues being raised by a
larger community. If there were silos for service agnostic image/
video integration, I'd be all for inclusion.
> On Mar 8, 6:56 am, "Michael C. Harris" <michael.twof...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 05:55:36AM -0800, Michael Bishop wrote:
>>> A bit of a proposal that we reevaluate the plugins in core and >>> extras >>> before the .5 release.
>>> I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, >>> and >>> given some love.
>> I was talking to Rick Cockrum about this yesterday. I hope the >> metaweblog API becomes irrelevant and AtomPub replaces it. I >> recognise >> the client landscape isn't sufficient at the moment, but I've heard >> rumours about new clients, say, for the iPhone, in development. My >> concern (though it's small and I will not raise my voice again if >> people support the inclusion of the metaweblog plugin) is that it's >> backward looking, which doesn't fit Habari's desired image.
> Completely valid points, and certainly worthy of longer term goals. I > honestly wouldn't see this happening by a .5 release, and despite > backward looking, users rely on clients like Ecto, MarsEdit, and > Scribefire. Supporting those until Atom Pub filters down to the user > level would seem logical.
>>> Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo and Viddler silo >>> are really core plugin material.
>> I also had concerns about this but someone (ringmaster?) convinced me >> that it was reasonable to provide media silos for an image service >> and >> a video service.
> My only concern with this is that they are service specific. I > personally do not like the idea of Habari coming across as "pushing" > specific, commercial services in an open source app. I would be > concerned about integrity and ulterior motive issues being raised by a > larger community. If there were silos for service agnostic image/ > video integration, I'd be all for inclusion.
On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 07:21:36AM -0800, Michael Bishop wrote:
> On Mar 8, 6:56 am, "Michael C. Harris" <michael.twof...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 05:55:36AM -0800, Michael Bishop wrote:
> > > A bit of a proposal that we reevaluate the plugins in core and extras > > > before the .5 release.
> > > I think the metaweblog plugin might be something we want in core, and > > > given some love.
> > I was talking to Rick Cockrum about this yesterday. I hope the > > metaweblog API becomes irrelevant and AtomPub replaces it. I recognise > > the client landscape isn't sufficient at the moment, but I've heard > > rumours about new clients, say, for the iPhone, in development. My > > concern (though it's small and I will not raise my voice again if > > people support the inclusion of the metaweblog plugin) is that it's > > backward looking, which doesn't fit Habari's desired image.
> Completely valid points, and certainly worthy of longer term goals. I > honestly wouldn't see this happening by a .5 release, and despite > backward looking, users rely on clients like Ecto, MarsEdit, and > Scribefire. Supporting those until Atom Pub filters down to the user > level would seem logical.
I said I wasn't going to argue, but hey, I am :) I agree with both your points - there won't be more a huge number of new AtomPub clients before 0.5, and we should support existing clients. I argue that we are supporting them by providing a metaweblog plugin, but that plugin doesn't need to be in core.
> > > Likewise, I personally question if the flickr silo and Viddler silo > > > are really core plugin material.
> > I also had concerns about this but someone (ringmaster?) convinced me > > that it was reasonable to provide media silos for an image service and > > a video service.
> My only concern with this is that they are service specific. I > personally do not like the idea of Habari coming across as "pushing" > specific, commercial services in an open source app.
I also was concerned about the favouring of specific services, commercial or not.
> I would be concerned about integrity and ulterior motive issues > being raised by a larger community. If there were silos for service > agnostic image/ video integration, I'd be all for inclusion.
I don't think such a thing is possible. So, we're left with the choice between including only the Simple File silo or providing some exemplars for video and image. I believe it's such a good feature that we'd be crazy not to include the silos. As a compromise, we can also include as many alternative silos in -extras as possible. YouTube is already there (and I'm still waiting on the feedback people have promised on that) and I'll commit to writing a Picasa one before 0.5.
> I said I wasn't going to argue, but hey, I am :) I agree with both > your points - there won't be more a huge number of new AtomPub clients > before 0.5, and we should support existing clients. I argue that we > are supporting them by providing a metaweblog plugin, but that plugin > doesn't need to be in core.
This (and other concerns of this nature) will be less of an issue if there is an easy way to install plugins from a central location (our repository). If this is a concern to you (2nd-person plural), then you should consider helping get hp.o in shape for accomplishing that.
On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 05:35:07PM -0500, Owen Winkler wrote:
> Michael C. Harris wrote:
> > I said I wasn't going to argue, but hey, I am :) I agree with both > > your points - there won't be more a huge number of new AtomPub clients > > before 0.5, and we should support existing clients. I argue that we > > are supporting them by providing a metaweblog plugin, but that plugin > > doesn't need to be in core.
> This (and other concerns of this nature) will be less of an issue if > there is an easy way to install plugins from a central location (our > repository).
Absolutely. Is this just an aside, or are you expressing an opinion one way or another about whether the metaweblog plugin should be in core?
> If this is a concern to you (2nd-person plural), then you should > consider helping get hp.o in shape for accomplishing that.
I'm more than happy to help, but have no idea where to start on this. (I note the 2nd-person plural, I'm just expressing my willingness to help.)
Combining pingerupdate and the pingback plugin is an option that makes
sense as long as the configuration panel allows you to turn either on
or off and change the list of services to update.
I've had second thoughts about the metaWeblog plugin, though. It's
important in that it lets people blog from their favorite editor.
Whatever it's birth, it's the only widely supported remote blogging
api there is at the moment. But it is limited in what it can do
without extending it so much you have another engine-specific api. As
such, it would be better off in -extras.
On Mar 8, 6:35 pm, Owen Winkler <epit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Michael C. Harris wrote:
> > I said I wasn't going to argue, but hey, I am :) I agree with both
> > your points - there won't be more a huge number of new AtomPub clients
> > before 0.5, and we should support existing clients. I argue that we
> > are supporting them by providing a metaweblog plugin, but that plugin
> > doesn't need to be in core.
> This (and other concerns of this nature) will be less of an issue if
> there is an easy way to install plugins from a central location (our
> repository). If this is a concern to you (2nd-person plural), then you
> should consider helping get hp.o in shape for accomplishing that.
If that's the case, then what would be the reason to have any plugins
in core? Or once this is in place, would Habari not ship with any
plugins?
