PHP 5.3 (for 0.9)

[Owen Winkler]

We're planning to adopt a requirement of PHP 5.3 for Habari versions 0.9
and greater.

Comments?

Owen

[Bryce Campbell]

Don't do it. Mediawiki had troubles with PHP 5.3 and my Debian server only has 5.2. My MBP is the the only one that has 5.3 and I had to install Macports just to get web apps working.

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[Owen Winkler]

On 12/3/2011 10:22 AM, Bryce Campbell wrote:
> Don't do it. Mediawiki had troubles with PHP 5.3 and my Debian server
> only has 5.2. My MBP is the the only one that has 5.3 and I had to
> install Macports just to get web apps working.

Random facts:
* PHP 5.2 is no longer supported.
* PHP 5.4 is in currently Release Candidate.
* PHP 5.3 fixes some issues which we've had to write workarounds for.
* PHP 5.3 has been running Habari without fail on most of our own
developers' servers.

Is your concern that other scripts on the same server will cease to
function if you were to upgrade PHP to the only currently supported
version? habariproject.org actively runs both Habari and MediaWiki
under PHP 5.3, so I'm not sure what the problem is there.

Owen

[Bryce Campbell]

My MBP came with 5.3.0 and Mediawiki, nor any other wiki, would install. Due to database issues versions later than 5.3.0 fixed my issue, but I had to install MacPorts to upgrade PHP. Also, I don't feel like messing around with my Debian server and breaking its stability by upgrading the PHP version.

[Christopher Davis]

I agree with Owen. The fact to 5.2 is no longer supported means we need to move on.

Adding to that the fact that a core, founding principle of Habari is to push the envelope, to keep moving forward, we really need to make the move to 5.3 as a min req.

Also just for more info, I run 5.3.x on all my servers, dev and prod, and haven't had any issues with Habari to date.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Owen Winkler]

I don't know anything about OSX coming with PHP at all, so I can't speak to that issue. But I do know that any server with PHP 5.2 will not have any security patches applied to it going into the future, so whether you choose to use Habari there or not, your server will likely be insecure/unpatched unless you upgrade. 

I suggest we have some knowledgeable folks write up some basic upgrade instructions to move from 5.2 to 5.3 so that people who are hesitant have no reason not to keep their servers secure. Most of us use Debian or Ubuntu, so it's probably something common enough that people could help and/or find the results useful. 

Owen

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[Scott Merrill]

For what it's worth, Debian 6 (squeeze) ships PHP 5.3.3:
http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=php5

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 (and variants) should have PHP 5.3
available in the php53 RPM:
https://rhn.redhat.com/rhn/software/packages/details/Overview.do?pid=653567

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 (and variants) should have PHP 5.3.3 as the
normal php RPM:
https://rhn.redhat.com/rhn/software/packages/details/Overview.do?pid=626569

(note: RHN login required to access those redhat.com URLs. Sorry about that.)

It looks like Ubuntu ships PHP 5.3 in Lucid Lynx and up:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=php5

[Michael C. Harris]

Yes, please.

See http://wiki.habariproject.org/en/User:Michaeltwofish#Why_we_should_be_.3E_5.3.1
(probably time to move that to its own page).

While we're namespacing, it would be nice to revisit some of the
project layout to make it more sensible (like formcontrol templates
living in admin).

--
Michael C. Harris, School of CS&IT, RMIT University
http://twofishcreative.com/michael/blog
IRC: michaeltwofish #habari

[Michael Bishop]

As a resident Mac user, using MAMP to run web apps is a dead simple way to run 5.3. As to Debian, I'm no server admin, but I've been running 5.3 for quite some time on my linode VPS with no issues. As Scott mentions, Squeeze comes with it.

If making it a minimum requirement will make Habari better, and development easier for those working in the areas they would benefit from it's improvements, I'd say its a no brainer to do so.

~miklb

[Andrew Heath]

I'm a HostGator customer. Their default shared hosting package is PHP 5.2.

When I asked them why not 5.3, they said they enable it for everyone who asks, but go with 5.2 by default since some people are a little behind.

I think that sums it up nicely.

Also, if you look here: http://php.net/downloads.php

The last 5.2.X release was in January 2011, nearly a year ago, and it's no longer supported.

We don't want to fall behind!

Forward, lads (& lasses) !

- A

[Stenehall]

Given that 0.8 isn't even released we can assume that 0.9 will take at
least 7-8 months until release. By that time 5.3 will be old and 5.4
will have been out for ~half a year.

Habari faq states (http://wiki.habariproject.org/en/
FAQ#How_is_this_different_from_the_eleventy_billion_other_blog_packages.
3F)
"Habari is being written specifically for modern web hosting
environments, and uses modern object-oriented programming
techniques."
That among other things clearly state that Habari should be using
modern, up to date solutions. I haven't read up on the features of 5.4
but if that includes anything that Habari could use I vote php 5.4 for
Habari 0.9.

Moving to php 5.3 is a given to me, if not 5.4

[Michael C. Harris]

On Sunday, 4 December 2011, Michael C. Harris <mic...@twofishcreative.com> wrote:
> On 4 December 2011 02:13, Owen Winkler <epi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We're planning to adopt a requirement of PHP 5.3 for Habari versions 0.9 and
>> greater.
>>
>> Comments?
>
> Yes, please.
>
> See http://wiki.habariproject.org/en/User:Michaeltwofish#Why_we_should_be_.3E_5.3.1
> (probably time to move that to its own page).
>
> While we're namespacing, it would be nice to revisit some of the
> project layout to make it more sensible (like formcontrol templates
> living in admin).

If we do adopt the PSR-0, how do we deal with the namespaces of plugins and themes, which can be activated in a variety of locations?

[Geoffrey Sneddon]

On 03/12/11 15:22, Bryce Campbell wrote:
> Don't do it. Mediawiki had troubles with PHP 5.3 and my Debian server only
> has 5.2. My MBP is the the only one that has 5.3 and I had to install
> Macports just to get web apps working.

With regards to Debian, Squeeze has 5.3, though Lenny only has 5.2.
However, Lenny is unsupported as of 7 February 2012. As such, it seems
likely that when Habari 0.9 ships the oldest supported Debian release
will have PHP 5.3. I'd argue that setting required PHP version based
upon the oldest supported Debian release is a reasonable thing to do.

/g