fog and flood

[moutsie56]

I've decided to build a small fog and flood system. Have any of you
used this type of system, and can you tell me, is the nutrient solution
for the fogger the same concentration as the nutrient solution I use to
flood the tap roots? Also, do you run your fogger continously, or on a
short cycle timer? Thanks.

[Marvinhl]

Hi, Can you please clarify what you mean by a fog and flood system?
I've built and tested several different systems, fill and drain, NFT,
drip, spray, etc. but I don't know what a fog and flood system is. A
description and a picture would help. In my 'Poor Man's Aeroponic
System' I use the nutrient solution 1/2 strength (pH adjusted) for
starting seeds and full strength when the seedlings are about 3 weeks
old. I run the system 24/7 about 30 seconds on and 6 minutes off.

[moutsie56]

When I investigated into ways to increase DO, this seemed to be the way
to go. I purchased a fogger on ebay
(http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-10-Head-Jet-Pond-Fountain-Mister-Fogger-HYDROPONICS_W0QQitemZ7757959826QQcategoryZ103440QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
and I am making a small unit, simular to one I saw at this site-
http://www.nutramist.com/purchase.html . The idea is to flood and drain
the tap roots (once established), while the fogger should promote
superior growth in the smaller developing roots. Maybe I have been
fooled by the techno hype, but I am almost done, and should be able to
report back soon as to how it goes. So far, I can tell you that the
fogger really is a neat item, and the fog produced feels dry. If it
doesn't work out, I can always use it as a humidifier. The next thing I
want to try, are those LED grow lights, but they are soooooo
expensive...I don't know. Thanks for the hint for a starting point as
to timing and nutrient strength, I already have a NFT timer that does 1
min on / 4 min off, and I think I will give that a shot first, but It
looks like I may need to get an adjustable recycle timer. Thanks again.

[Bob]

Foggers require alot of attention.

Heat is a critical issue. Temps over 80+ can very quickly cause
serious damage or even kill plants.

The second critical issue is the res level. It MUST be maintained at
a proper level at all times. Foggers can use a deceptive amount of
liquid.

Last is the issue of keeping the fogger heads clean. Nutrient
solution are of course full of chemicals and can clog the foggers head
very rapidly.

Not quite sure how you are gonna mix fogger and e/f as they are
totally different methods of hydro. The intent of foggers is to keep
a very highly O2'ed mix spraying the roots while with e/f the roots
are flooded at usually
tightly controlled time frames.
Bob

[moutsie56]

Yes, I agree, they require constant monitoring. The faster you grow,
the quicker problems will arise and get you. One of the main reasons I
am trying this method, is that I have a lot of time on my hands, and
most of it I devote to my hobby, so it sould be a good fit for me.
While just testing the fogger, I could see how rising temperatures
could be a problem, so I purchased a CAP adjustable high temp shut off,
and I will use the thermastat from that to turn off the fog when it
exceeds 72 (I may have to play with that a little, but sure I can keep
it well under 80). My fogger has an automatic shut-off if the res gets
too low, but it does look like I will have to check the water lever on
a frequent schedule, unless I can rig some sort of water controler to
keep a constant level maintained, and that shouldn't be rocket science.
The mix of fog and e/f turns out to be rather simple. I have a flood
table, in which I place a tray holding 3" net cups, the tray acts as a
cover to keep in the fog. The flood table runs normally, except that
instead of the net cups sitting on the floor of the flood table, they
are suspended about 3-4" over it. I am using a small exhaust fan
attached at one end of the table, and hosing in the fog from the other
end, so that the fog will flow through the roots. After the tap roots
reach near the bottom of the flood table, then they will be fed by
flood/drain pump. And yes, you are correct, it takes little time for
the nutrient to discolor the heads to the fogger, but I haven't seen it
actually clog at all. It uses ultrasonic technology to create the fog,
so I'm not sure if clogging will ever be any kind of a problem. The
discoloration wipes clean, easily and quickly, so I will try to keep it
maintained. So far, my big mistake was testing in a small room. I left
the fogger running to see how humid I could make it, and made the
mistake of having the control unit in the same room. Anybody with a
grain of since, would have realized they give you that 25' cord, so you
don't get the controler wet. Anyway, I hope to have it back from the
repair shop by Friday, so I can start testing on some real living
plants, and see if I can keep them alive. It's all a just a big
experiment for me. Thanks for your suggestions, certainly every system
has advantages and disadvantages, and you seem to have a very good
understanding of the ones inherent to this one. Should be fun to see if
it works out. I'm also sure I will run into some unexpected problems
along the way, and I will be back here looking for more help. Thanks,
Kevin

[Bob]

So... if I understand... you have your plants suspended over the e/f table...
and are intermittently aero'ing them with your ultrasonic unit...

I see some very unhappy plants in your immediate future. Aero grown
plants love aero.. but the aero needs to be on very frequently with
only brief off cycles...

If not... the roots will dry out and yours will dry quicker with your
fan blowing on them.. dry roots = dead/dying plants very very quickly
Bob

[moutsie56]

Actually, I don't have it running just yet, as I am waiting for a new
fogger head, something was bad in it and blowing fuses. I hope to have
it going next week (crossing fingers). The plan is to use a CAP high
temperature shutdown switch on the fogger, and shut down the fogger if
it goes above 72 degrees. The fogger and fan will shut off, and the
fogger will cut back on at 65 degrees. I will probably have to play
with the temperature settings a bit, the hardest part will probably be
keeping the res cool, with summer on the way. If this does not work to
keep it running nearly all of the time, I will have to go to a short
recycle timer or an adjustable one. I have 1/4 and 3/5 NFT timers,
but it may be time for me to get an ART, "timing is everything" they
say. Also, flooding the tap roots evey so often, should help.
Basically, I am trying to do my own Nutramist fog/flood, this is the
url where you can check it out -
http://www.nutramist.com/nutramistgardens.html
As soon as I get something up and running, I'll report back to let you
help me figure out what's killing my plants, should be fun! :>)

[Bob]

If you check the temp output of your fogger you will find a shut off of
around 76/78 will be good. The output cools very rapidly once it gets
away from the head.

Res's can be kept at a proper temp in summer with frozen 1 liter
bottles. In the winter often times an aquarium heater does it.
-
> http://www.nutramist.com/nutramistgardens.html

A totally different unit than I thought.. thanks for the link.

"what's killing my plants, should be fun!"

Uttt ohh.....
Bob