Grafx2 on 486 with Win95

[HoraK FDF]

Hi,

2 weeks ago i revived an old notebook with a 486sl 25 mhz and 8 MB Ram
and tested its power consumtion and it only takes 28 watt (my other
comps consume ~180 watt thats why i'm looking forward to the nintendo
ds version wich consumes 0 watt while loading oO) so i decided to make
an dos on it and use the old grafx2 for dos and draw my pictures there
unluckily the grafx2 killed my filesystem :( while trying to to get it
run. Then i looked on the new grafx2 and saw it supports win95 and
than i looked on win95 and it supports 486 so i made the notebook new
with win95. Thats the first part of the Story :P and now the part
where i need some help. I installed grafx2-2.3.1781.win32 and starting
to test it picture loading is a bit slow but that does not matter
scrolling speed is ok but when i click on the picture to draw a pixel
it lags sometimes longer sometimes only very short after the lag i can
draw without lag (when i move the cursor fast and wide than a little
lag is there but no one draws this way i only tested it) when i than
release the button it lags again sometimes longer sometimes only very
short that makes painting very hard ive tryed to set the undo pages to
1 and disable synced views but that dosent help. Is there an older
version that is maybe better on an old maschine or can try other
option to save hardwarepower? Or can something in the sources be
disabled to save hardwarepower?

If someone can help me with this it would be very nice.

... Thanks in advance and regards HoraK-FDF

[pulko...@pulkomandy.ath.cx]

Hello,
This is likely because of the layers. They make everything slower (even
when you don't use them). It is possible to make a version of GrafX2
without layer support.

Note you can also run the new versions of GrafX2 under DOS, using the
hx-dos extender. You may need to cheat with VESA modes and the UniVBE or
solething similar, so windows 95 is likely a simpler way.

--
Adrien / PulkoMandy

[Yves Rizoud]

25MHz is really not much, I've never seen a working Win95 desktop with
less than 100Mhz (and 16Mb).
One bottleneck for such old system is slow memory operations,
especially because grafx2 makes a backup of the entire image each time
you click, no matter how small the modified part. If you edit small
images (< 320x200) it should be bearable.
Please try the version attached here: http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/issues/detail?id=31#c30
It's a variant of latest v2.3 that loses layers but allows basic
animation; since it doesn't have the layering display system, it
should run much faster while you're drawing, and uses less memory.

If disk access is also slow, you'll still have the problem that every
minute, the safety backup will cause a very noticeable "hiccup".
There's no setting to disable it... but you can use a kind of hack :
place a read-only file called "gfx2.lck" in the same directory as
gfx2.cfg, this will disable the safety backups.

Last performance advice: Use fullscreen mode, and instead of pixel
scaler (double, triple etc) you should try to get the smallest
resolution you like.

grafx2 supposedly runs OK on MS-DOS if you use the freeware "HX DOS
Extender". It would be one way to free much more resources (RAM and
cpu).

Yves

[HoraK FDF]

Thanks for the help I tryed HX-Dos extender for a while with an other
version but it dosent run there, so i will try it again and i will
test the version provided. Is the Auto-Save Yes/No option in the
option menu something else as the safety backup function? UniVBE is no
problem its already installed under dos and runs fine :) . I will give
u an report after the new tests.

... greetings HoraK-FDF

[pulko...@pulkomandy.ath.cx]

On 2011-08-20 at 21:56:55 [+0200], HoraK FDF <Hora...@web.de> wrote:
> Thanks for the help I tryed HX-Dos extender for a while with an other
> version but it dosent run there, so i will try it again and i will
> test the version provided. Is the Auto-Save Yes/No option in the
> option menu something else as the safety backup function?

Yes, this is for auto-saving the settings to disk when you close the
window. If it's set to off you have to click "save" each time you change
something.

> UniVBE is no
> problem its already installed under dos and runs fine :) . I will give
> u an report after the new tests.
>
> ... greetings HoraK-FDF

Ok, please report problems you get with Hx-DOS. This is not very well
tested, it used to work but may be broken again now. If you see an error
message or something like that, tell us and we'll see what we can do.

[HoraK FDF]

Hi,

i teste a bit with the HX Extender first i decided to get it working
on a newer comp so i must replace my grafic card agains an old pci
grafic card that is recocnized by univbe. Than i tryed to start GrafX2
but it fails all Paths are set correct and the error is:
dpmild32: import not found: LookupIconIdFromDirectoryEx
dpmild32: file USER32.dll
dpmild32: c:\tools\hx\bin\SHELL32.DLL: cannot resolve imports

than i renamed the shell32.dll in the hx folder so that he must take
the one from the windows/system folder but that brings also an error
(i dont know if hx really supports the schell32.dll from win98 and
needs its own but i tryed):
dpmild32: import not found: CreateEllipticRgnIndirect
dpmild32: file GDI32.dll
dpmild32: C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SHELL32.DLL: cannot resolve imports
dpmild32: C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SHELL32.DLL: cannot load PE file

i dont testet the version without layers until now i will first try
dos.

... greetings HoraK-FDF

[Yves Rizoud]

The first error is from a function that we use now to set icon, and if it is not implemented in HX Extender, it explains why it wouldn't start. In this case, the way you replaced one file from HX Extender by a stock win98 file wouldn't work. You should rename back the DLL to its original name before any other tests.

You can try version 2.1, it was the last version where we got feedback of running it on MS-DOS :
http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/downloads/detail?name=grafx2-2.1.1080-win32.zip
It was before we implemented layers at all.

It's very possible that later versions don't work so well, especially the restriction of filenames in 8+3... But if at least you can get 2.1 to work with reasonable performance, I'll try to make a build of 2.2 or 2.3 without layers and witout the icon stuff that's doesn't work with HX Extender.

Yves

2011/8/22 HoraK FDF <Hora...@web.de>

[HoraK FDF]

Hi,

ive tryed the grafx2-2.1.1080 it starts up but the mouse dont releases
somtimes and if so it starts to lag when drawing long lines. An other
question is how do i set fullscreen via the the ini file ive tryed
"fullscreen" "full" and "full screen" but none works and he writes
back "window" after i run grafx2? Long file names work with doslfn.
The wheel is also not working but maybe i get it by pass some options
to cutemouse.

... greetings HoraK-FDF

[HoraK FDF]

Hi,

i tested a bit around with the dos version one problem is that it
starts up in window mode where all colors are fine but if i set
fullscreen the colors reduce to 16 colors i dont found a way to start
it directly in full screen mode maybe that can pervent hx from
switching back to 16 colors. Than the lagging and hanging mousecursor
makes it totaly hard to draw so ive came to the point where i must say
the dos version is not very useable for at least freehand drawing. So
i decided to test the windows version without layers it makes the same
lag as the other version grafx2-2.3.1781 so drawing is very hard
again. Maybe an other backup function where only the modified part is
recorded could help but changing this for some old pcs out there is
too much work i think. So i must use Deluxe paint, Satanpaint, VGA
Pain or paint shop pro 3.12 if i really want to draw on the little
486 :/ . Thats hard if grafx2 is allready in the head :P

... Thanks for the Help ... greetings HoraK-FDF

[Yves Rizoud]

I have a very hard time understanding what you're doing.
The original DOS version of Grafx2 (" Grafx 2 beta 96.5%") didn't have a choice of window or fullscreen mode, and should run fine on plain DOS on a 486. With VESA support you'd get plenty of video modes, otherwise the default MCGA mode (320x200) is ALWAYS available on any VGA card.

In any case, if you try any version of grafx2 2.1 or later, you can start in fullscreen by specifying arguments on command-line:
grafx2.exe /mode 320x200
Or set the variable Default_video_mode in gfx2.ini

By the way you'll probably want to set the Merge_movement variable there to 100, it will allow skipping video frames if the display cannot be refreshed as fast as the mouse reports positions.

Yves

2011/8/25 HoraK FDF <Hora...@web.de>

[HoraK FDF]

The Grafx 2 beta 96.5% killed my filesystem so i dont try it again. I
dont looked in the web for documentation about grafx2 commandline
switches ive only tryed /? but it gives no output now i know its on
the first side of the wiki damn ive should have look there first. How
i set fullscreen mode in the gfx2.ini ive tryed to write
Default_video_mode = fullscreen , full and full screen but he always
writes back window there after i run grafx2. I had only i quick look
in the wiki now because i'm under time presure at the moment but found
nothing what i should write there does i overlooked it?

... greetings HoraK-FDF

[HoraK FDF]

ok now i understand what i must write there Default_video_mode =
640x480 and so on i thought Default_window_size sets the actual
resolution. I will try the Merge_movement with the 2.1 under dos maybe
it resolves the lag and that the left button releases only after next
click.

[HoraK FDF]

Ive now got the wheel working and merge movment removes the lag but
the mousekey hang is still there i tryed some microsoft, logitech, and
cutemouse driver versions but all bring the same result. here again
what happens:

some clicks don't gets noticed and no draw occurs.
sometimes after a click when the button is allready released he still
draws clicking again stops this.

ive tryed it under windows there the problem dont occurs. what could
cause this problem under dos? hx maybe?

... Thanks in Advance and greetings HoraK-FDF