Cameron suffers embarrassing Commons defeat as Tory rebels and Labour MPs unite over EU budget

[Sandman]

Now what is the pratt going to do, he has just been kicked in the

balls in parliament, and the look on his face says it all, I pity the

cat at number 10 when he goes home. He could take the top men

from his own party, and from labour to the sumit next month, then

get them all to lobby representatives from other countries, and try

to get some on side, or he could call a referendum and let us decide

our own destiny.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225329/EU-budget-vote-Cameron-suffers-embarrassing-Commons-defeat-Tory-rebels-Labour-MPs-unite-demand-tougher-stance-EU-s-budget.html

[Jonksy]

Oh dear...i would hate to be the wankers carer...

[AWM]

Nice !

On Oct 31, 8:10 pm, Sandman <joere...@aol.com> wrote:
> Now what is the pratt going to do, he has just been kicked in the
> balls in parliament, and the look on his face says it all, I pity the
> cat at number 10 when he goes home. He could take the top men
> from his own party, and from labour to the sumit next month, then
> get them all to lobby representatives from other countries, and try
> to get some on side, or he could call a referendum and let us decide
> our own destiny.
>

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225329/EU-budget-vote-Camero...

[Jonksy]

Lets hope it is the start of many AWM...

[jar]

It's another step forward by progressive MPs to let the leadership or the establishment realise that they will not be used as rubber stamps. Something I've long supported.
Now it's working with a party that's not in hock to the unions could it work for one that is. The only way out of that one. Is state funding.
Of course I don blame the opposition for using these questionable tactics as there is no doubt that any opposition would do the same

[tinman]

With a bit of luck the UK could be looking at the end of this Tory
lead coalition.

With even more luck the UK could be looking at the back end of Cameron
and Osborne.

On 31 Oct, 20:10, Sandman <joere...@aol.com> wrote:
> Now what is the pratt going to do, he has just been kicked in the
> balls in parliament, and the look on his face says it all, I pity the
> cat at number 10 when he goes home. He could take the top men
> from his own party, and from labour to the sumit next month, then
> get them all to lobby representatives from other countries, and try
> to get some on side, or he could call a referendum and let us decide
> our own destiny.
>

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225329/EU-budget-vote-Camero...

[Jonksy]

What the fuck has your wankers defeat got to do with the unions OLD man? ..I would rather see a party supported by the unions which is MADE UP from the voice of the people rather than a bunch of wankers who are owned and controlled by the bwankers and financial sector..

[tinman]

This is the end of the road for the Tories.

The country rejected then in 2010. it's rejecting them now.

It will reject them into the history books in 2015.

[Trueblue]

If you listened to a serious news report on the vote it was blatantly clear this vote had no power to force the governments hands, Labour who gave half our rebate away for no gain agreed to above inflation increases to the EU each year so their vote was purely for political point scoring.

 

Our vote in the EU is just one and the Government has agreed to use the Veto against any real term increase, thats the toughest stance of any government since Margaret Thatcher so all this is just a storm in a teacup.

[jar]

You don't get it thicko do you. Public funding would prevent political parties relying on funds and influence either from the Unions or big business. Tories have proposed it but Labour have been instructed that it cannot apply to unions

[GBur3]

The tory party is a rabble. It's fucking insane - you've got tory
rebels uniting with labour against a combination of liberals and
people from their own party. Could they be any more divided? Oh, yes
I'm sorry - if you want to get the tories to agree on something then
you've got to suggest buggering the poor.

Fucking joke.

On Oct 31, 8:10 pm, Sandman <joere...@aol.com> wrote:

> Now what is the pratt going to do, he has just been kicked in the
> balls in parliament, and the look on his face says it all, I pity the
> cat at number 10 when he goes home. He could take the top men
> from his own party, and from labour to the sumit next month, then
> get them all to lobby representatives from other countries, and try
> to get some on side, or he could call a referendum and let us decide
> our own destiny.
>

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225329/EU-budget-vote-Camero...

[jar]

What a rant stick to singles Gbur

[Trueblue]

On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 23:51:12 UTC, GBur3 wrote:

The tory party is a rabble. It's fucking insane - you've got tory
rebels uniting with labour

 

 

Try using your head Alex, Labour agreed above inflation increases 13 years running including 2008.09 the height of the depression.

[GBur3]

Pete, did you read all of my post?

This has nothing to do with labour - who just did their job in being
the opposition and testing government mettle.

Had the tory rebels backed their own PM, the government would have
won. A government with a majority of 80+ had its intentions thwarted
because the leading party can't get its act together.

And it is that division that will make the headlines tomorrow - not
what labour did between 2 and 15 years ago!

[Trueblue]

On Thursday, 1 November 2012 00:03:22 UTC, GBur3 wrote:

Pete, did you read all of my post?

This has nothing to do with labour -

 

Of course it does Alex, let me make this point to highlight Labours complete hypocrisy, they voted for the EU to make AUSTERITY CUTS

[Jonksy]

Talking of thikos LABOUR are NOT in power so what influence could they possibly put on the proceedings? Your bloody excuses in support of the caMoron and his wankers get more bloody dumber by the hour..Bloody hell you either blame labour the lib dems the EU or the fucking weather but never the REAL inept twats..better known as the tits up tories..

[jar]

Really then it wasn't Labour that voted with the Tory rebels to defeat the gvt then? Thicko

[Jonksy]

They were doing their fucking job you thick tory prick....What a pity they don't do it more often..FOOL..

[Jonksy]

It doesn't take long before you start the name calling does it arsehole?...Oh dear did your beloved tories get a bloody nose?...LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 23:33:54 UTC, jar wrote:

[Briar]

Arent we all clutching at straws here ? They announced beforehand
that the result would not mean anything. They wriggle about trying to
walk the wire and gain some undeserved support from the anti-EU
people, but also from those that still support our being in it. End
result is just showing their impotence to do anything concrete about
it.
Britain has lost its way, and lost its once brilliant talent of
managing world affairs through manipulating other players.

IMHO it would not be enough for us to leave the EU - its existence,
and its fake currency, remains a serious threat to the well-being of
the UK, so our best strategy would be to work secretly to set all the
member states in it against each other, to destroy the horrible €, and
to bring individual states to reclaim their sovreignity and
independence of action.

Until the notion of a Union of European States is eliminated, the EU
will remain a negative influence on the wealth and future of the UK.
Our future if we have one is in trading with the wide world as we did
before WW2, and not as a peripheral province of an inward-oriented
union of states trading with each other. In any case, as the economy
inside the EU is a disaster area, the less we have to do with it the
luckier we will be !

On Oct 31, 8:10 pm, Sandman <joere...@aol.com> wrote:

> Now what is the pratt going to do, he has just been kicked in the
> balls in parliament, and the look on his face says it all, I pity the
> cat at number 10 when he goes home. He could take the top men
> from his own party, and from labour to the sumit next month, then
> get them all to lobby representatives from other countries, and try
> to get some on side, or he could call a referendum and let us decide
> our own destiny.
>

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225329/EU-budget-vote-Camero...

[Sandman]

What is it with you and the unions Jar, do they frighten you that much,

did your parents threaten you with a union man when you were a kid,

if you misbehaved. Get real, unions serve a purpose, if only to hold

some governments in check, and stop them from doing things that are

out of order. Unions have done some good things over the years, and

some bad, the same applies to the party in government you pay homage

to.

 

On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 21:37:32 UTC, jar wrote:

[tinman]

It doesn't matter how the die hards here dress this up this is a total
disaster for Cameron.

[tinman]

The Tory party will be assigned to the history books at the next
election. Cameron and Osborne have shown they are both incapable of
leadership. People now see both men for what they are and want rid
of them.

Cameron's austerity on the poor is lining the pockets of the rich.

[Trueblue]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 4:17:53 AM UTC, Jonksy wrote:

Talking of thikos LABOUR are NOT in power so what influence could they possibly put on the proceedings?

 

 

It pleases and excites their gullibles and you confirm.

[tinman]

LMFAO. Your reduced to this TB.

[Jonksy]

Don't use the word wriggle Tinny it upsets his leg jizzer..

[jar]

Another nugget from Jonsky who never does anything else but name call. If he didnt do that or copy what on earth would he say.

You still dont get it do you Jonsky despite Labours hypocritical manoeuvering Cameron has been delivered exactly what he wanted but couldnt ask for.Plus the didnt have to get the unions OK

[jar]

Youve got an obsession about legs and sex Jonsky, it could be serious

[Jonksy]

one simple question then fool..are labour in power or not?..I rest my case thiko..

[jar]

youve lost it again and they wont ever be whilst they are owned by the Unions. McClusky great !!!

One more try Labour saw a chance to defeat the gvt by joining in with the Tory rebels geddit? 

Very hypocritical for party political purposes only as opposed to whats best for the country however they played straight into Camerons hands in strengthening his negotiating position 

[tinman]

It's quite simply really jon. This is a humiliating defeat for
Cameron. and a serious blow to his already shaky PM ship.

Most see this as a warning from his own back bencher's that voters
will not put up with his austerity program if the money saved is being
handed out to feed the EU's bottomless pit and in foreign aid.

It doesn't take much looking around to see why the voters have had
enough of the two clowns running or not running the show.

Halfway through now and a lot of these back bencher's realise it's
their neck on the line.

Cameron is a walking disaster waiting to happen again and again.

[jar]

You obviously havnt a clue of what your talking about. Dont you even know of Labours track record on monies given to the EU as opposed to Cameron fighting against it.

Foreign aid is fully endorsed by the Labour party so what are you on about.

Its about time MPs were not used as rubber stamps or told what to do by the Unions.

As it happens Cameron couldnt have asked for better than he got as it strengthens his negotiating position

That you can see whats obvious to the average moron can doesnt help.

[Jonksy]

I just love all the dumb arse excuses from the usual brain dead mate..If they actually followed the links that are posted and read the readers own responses and criticisms of their beloved tories they just may get the picture to what is going on...The MAJORITY of peeps didn't want the arseholes in in the first place and those who supported the tossers were sold down down the river, Not only by promises which weren't worth a toss but by also selling the suckers out to the left..And the usual OLD fart bleats on about the bigger picture,,,LOL LOL LOL

[Jonksy]

That wasn't the answer thicko...So I will ask you YET again are labour in NOW or NOT?

[tinman]

The public see the coalition and the Tory party in particular in total
disarray. At a time when the country needs strong leadership it see's
Cameron's own backbenchers telling him to man up and stop handing over
Billions of taxpayers money to foreigners.

And what do the press headlines scream back at the voting public
concerning this weakling PM.

We get Clegg and Osborne whining about there's nothing they can do.

Who going to vote for this bunch of whimps.

According to the polls no one.

[tinman]

They're saying on the news here Cameron's position will soon be
untenable. Even his own party see him as a weakling.

[Jonksy]

Oh be fare mate the usual brain dead will vote for them...And then spend the rest of their lives blaming labour the unions the EU or the lib dems..

[AWM]

Does this never sink in jar that, with regards to Foreign aid, the UK
has 'pledged' an amount, as have other developed nations, to the ODA.

Cameron see fit to increase our amount whilst most of the others just
ramble along, a bit here, a bit there, not even reaching any targets.

And why does this Aid still go to countries like Russian, Brazil,
China and Turkey fpr example.

[tinman]

Two years on and Cameron is seen as the weakling PM. The Tories are a
shambles, It doesn't matter what the die hards here post Cameron
hasn't a clue and the voters can see it.

Even now he still wants to give away Billions of taxpayers pounds.

[Affa]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 3:32:11 PM UTC, jar wrote:

 

As it happens Cameron couldnt have asked for better than he got as it strengthens his negotiating position

 

 

lol .......... putting a positive spin on it ......... some in westminster do likewise.

Exactly how what will it achieve in the negotiations?

If the EU majority vote to increase the budget, it will be increased and the UK contribution increased with it.

The EU Commision will resort to QMV (Qualified Majority Voting) and the 'veto' is negated.

 

But the PM has set his target on a FREEZE ....... which is in fact a limit tied to inflation. So not a FREEZE at all.

As one Conservative MP said "using the veto has virtually no chance of success" ...... and the possibility is that in doing so, and isolating Britain

from the table when the final decission is made, will likely cost us more.

 

 

 

[jar]

Wasnt the answer you wanted but those were the facts of the matter. That you are too thick to understand is your problem. Dont ask Tinman for any help he cant get it either

[jar]

This country signed up to the o7% GDP and that is what Cameron has adhered to with the full backing of the Labour party. Thats what has sunk in AWM

No need to lecture me about it and where it goes as I have written so many posts indicating my opposition to this vanity project where as you say the money goes to countries where it shouldnt plus to consultants and Swiss bank accounts. I guess Im as angry as anyone about it and have said so many times

[Jonksy]

Do you have to practice to be that thick or does it come naturally..I will ask you YET again OLD man are labour in power now or not? The FACTS are yet again that you lied..

[jar]

dont want to do a tinman on you but I have to repeat its not my fault if you dont understand whats being said. We all know Labour are in opposition but by combining with the Tory rebels they inflicted a defeat on the gvt. NOW GEDDIT!!

[Jonksy]

I understand perfectly unlike you...You made a statement which was total bullshit and now as per usual you are trying to get OFF the hook...You OLD tory types are just full of shit and when you are caught out you slither like the rock sliders that you are..

[jar]

Yes that post explains a lot no content just invective. That has always meant youve been swatted again. Im begining to think you like it

[Jonksy]

i do wish you would keep up with your very own bullshit..You stated that labour were the ones who stopped the state funding of parties. I would like you to explain how they could unleash all this power as they were not the government of the day. And no party fought harder against state funding  than your beloved tories...This yet again was another caMoron broken promise which he said would be brought in if he got into No: 10 along with his bullshit of making UK politics more transparent and MP's more accountable over their expenses...yep and that is now one million per week extra since he got in...we are so lucky to have a lying prick like that at the helm...Just think what it would be like if he wasn't on our side.....

[Trueblue]

On Thursday, 1 November 2012 16:37:38 UTC, Affa wrote:

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 3:32:11 PM UTC, jar wrote:

 

As it happens Cameron couldnt have asked for better than he got as it strengthens his negotiating position

 

 

lol .......... putting a positive spin on it ......

 

...

 

No, thats exactly how Radio 4s political editor put, the UK is not alone in threatening to use its veto, every western member of the EU with the exception of France wants a freeze or cuts

[jar]

I cannot believe that anyone can fail to understand what is so blatantly obvious on matters such as this all parties have to subscribe to public funding. It's a matter on record that Labour will not agree unless the unions are exempt.

[Affa]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 6:31:07 PM UTC, jar wrote:

 

This country signed up to the o7% GDP and that is what Cameron has adhered to

 

 

There is no signed agreement to spend this money on Foreign AID! There is no binding obligation to do so!

All there is is a 'concensus', first agreed to at the  UN General Assembly in 1970 (Heath gov't) and adhered to ever since 'as a target'.

 

I've told you this before, but you insist on saying it was 'signed up to' - there is no binding agreement. get it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AWM]

So have all the other countries jar, and they can't be bothered, nor
do they increase their contribution.

[jar]

Sorry Affa the facts remain that it was agreed to and Cameron has stated backed up by Harriet Harman that we are honour bound to keep to our word you can play around with words to find a get out as much as you want but that's the reality of the situation

[jar]

As I said Awm I detest the situation and am aware that the other countries are not fulfilling their promises Cameron's excuse on that one is that we should set an example. Again I don't agree but am just passing on what has been explained about the matter in the media.

[AWM]

That's why I voted for a party who pledged to scrap the 'pledge'.

It was a clear choice.

[Affa]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 10:37:49 PM UTC, jar wrote:

 

Sorry Affa the facts remain that it was agreed to and Cameron has stated backed up by Harriet Harman that we are honour bound to keep to our word

 

Oh! Cameron has done more than that. What he has stated is that he will enshrine the committment 'in law' thus 'binding' the government to

maintain that level of Foreign Aid.

 

 

you can play around with words to find a get out as much as you want but that's the reality of the situation

 

 

I just gave you the reality.

 

 

 

[AWM]

The other reality being, jar voted for it.

[Trueblue]

On Thursday, 1 November 2012 22:56:40 UTC, AWM wrote:

The other reality being, jar voted for it.

 

You voted to islolate the UK from the rest of the world subjecting the UK to absolute third world povery.

[AWM]

Drama queen....

[Jonksy]

He is one of those who was dumb enough to be taken in by the lying turds AWM....LOL and locky stated he voted for only party who would do anything about immigration....LOL...I rest my case mate...

On Thursday, 1 November 2012 22:56:40 UTC, AWM wrote:

[Jonksy]

Your the one failing to understand so stop fudging the issue you LIED end of...If it was a matter of record you would have the proof whereas I can give you a dozen links showing the caMorons bullshit over the matter and the tory twats resentment over state funding...You really should get over your self about the unions you sound like a fucking echo..

[AWM]

Your case is so rested, it is tanning itself on a far away island,
sipping wine, whilst dipping it's feet in the warm ocean, surrounded
by beautiful women waiting to give it a massage.

[jar]

I won't match the aggressive tone as if you are asking a serious question it's superfluous and unnecessary.
I have of course answered it before but to refresh your memory I am a supporter of good well run Unions and until recently when he died the guy that used to be head of. The local TGWA was one of my drinking chums as was the. Head of th MU.
The key word. Is good well run unions epitomised by the sensible Joe Gormley who would have not caused. The. Mayhem that Scargill did.
My gripe is against those that are more interested in their own power and ambitions rather than those. They are supposed to represent. Surely you are aware that a small number of. Militants make it their business to control the silent majority of moderates in order to cause chaos Communist messrs Crowe and McClusky are hardly peacemakers and the threat of strike action which should be the last item on their agenda is often the first and obviously at the country's most vulnerable time
I don't blame the Unions for using their financial muscle to gain influence over the Labour party in fact I admire the clever move but that's how things stand . You like it or you don't . I prefer to have an elected gvt free of ties and that's why I have always supported state funding but guess what Labour won't agree unless the Unions are exempt. Should tell us the story I think

[jar]

But which. Party would that be clearly it's neither of the three that are in power. Like you if I knew of a party that would an could scrap the pledge I would vote for them too.
This question seems to be taboo for discussion on TV . There are newspapers that will bring it up and being in opposition Labour are rightly staying quiet about their support and it's left to Cameron to rightly take the brunt of an enraged electorate. I broke my duck and emd Tory office telling them it would lose them the election because so many object to the gvt taking taxpayers money without their permission and wasting a good proportion of it

[AWM]

So many people said that, but few had the courage of their
convictions.

[jar]

Your using. The wrong tense the bill was talked out. Now will he risk another rebellion by those that state that they will represent the will of their constituents?
So no reality again which you so often claim incorrectly

[jar]

You know this to be a reality do you Awm sorry to disillusion you but I did no such thing

[jar]

There's no point of voting for a party that won't be able to deliver. In my opinion its better to use a vote to keep Labour and their masters out. I've said often enough that I agree with those that say the next election will have more votes against a party than for them. Silly forecasting I know but the Lib Dems will not be the power brokers they were last time.

[AWM]

Oh yeah, sorry, you a are a foreigner discussing matters pertaining to
us in the UK.

[AWM]

Like I said, courage of convictions.

[jar]

Thought people born in the sound of Bow Bells were British at least so the gvt thought when I got my call up papers. Cant get info prior to 1786 as Godmanchester Cambs and Swindon dont have the records. JerseyCI UK happens to be a crown possession . To suggest Englishmen living in such places is risible .

[jar]

That would result in voting for a party that has no representation in Parliament . Fat lot of good

[AWM]

Of course you are British, but you live outside the realms of our
democracy of Parliamentary representation and are self governing.

An ex pat, if you like.

[AWM]

How do we know there is no representation until after the votes are
counted?

[kevbrick]

hey hey hey........lets not start on us ex-pats now......this ex-pet
is right now siting by the pool getting smashed.......

[Jonksy]

this side of the water is fuck all to do with him...he chose not to pay into our system in his tax free shit hole so he DOES not have the right to poke his nose into OUR affairs...

[AWM]

Nice work fella !!

[tinman]

You''l need to shout jon . He's crashed out. It started well, he
had some of the grandkids round and we we're star gazing till about
10.30.pm.

[jar]

The truth is somewhat different . Jersey is supposed to be self governing Crown possession with Britain  responsible for Foreign policy . We get many visits from Home Office MPs and those that are allocated to see that what is done meets with their approval. Some have advocated to be independant as Cornwall does because Westminster wont allow us to have those big firms relocate here to avoid the tax much under discussion at the moment.

[jar]

The polls are there

[jar]

As accurate as usual fortunately there was no crash but your interest in what I do is flattering as the rest of the time was spent driving , some of the kids are in Ireland and wed been with some of the others yesterday Lunch.

However those that have brains do need to rest now and again to keep sharp but that wouldnt apply to you Tinman otherwise your posts would be better than those of a five year old

[AWM]

The polls jar? Ok, come an election, three main parties are on 25%
each, others 25%. Who, and why, should I vote for?

Cos I always thought democracy was about voting within the parameters
of one's beliefs, not propping up the failed two party state.

On Nov 2, 6:06 pm, jar <jar...@aol.com> wrote:
> The polls are there

[jar]

I think you will find the polls will give a good indication who will form the next gvt and my guess is that it will be probably Labour who won't need any help from the Lib Dems. It's a long time ahead but if Cameron insists on committing political suicide I can't see any other result.
Now how people can stop either one I just cannot envisage as you say nothing would be better than changing the system and maybe that's what the Lib Dems had in mind with their proffered system of voting but the result of that effort shows how difficult it is to effect a change in the status quo