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Subject: Re: Call for action: Time to rethink a road-map and more frequent
updates for GWT.
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Joseph, Coderinabstract
I agree with you both.
I also appreciate the GWT contributors, and I hope Google will continue to
support and improve this toolkit,
But since there was no official movement on the blog and on the project
page for about 6 months, I believe it is our responsibility to let google
know it is missing, and we hurt for that, help me spread the word please.
Alan,
I am following Ray, and saw that post. I am also searching constantly for
new updates about the project, but don't you agree it should have been at
least posted also in the blog? again, if you want the community to grow,
you must make it easier for new comers to join and bring them up to date.
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:
>
> + 1...
>
> Working on web apps since web came to existence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML,
> javascript, struts and it was a real mess and did not truly enjoy it.
> Also,apps created were error prone with code bloat and good design was
> messy and a challenge.
>
> The power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a
> complete game changing innovation compared to the page based development,
> untyped and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end user
> experiences.
>
> Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML5/CSS and supporting a truly open
> standard already qualifies this to be the best design experience for
> someone like me who really enjoys good application design. Augmenting GWT
> with frameworks like GWTP and other opensource frameworks makes this
> a formidable high performing application design architecture out there. I
> have yet to find a solid scalable OO/Java based design framework with this
> kind of pure OO and componentization power for user experience
> management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and it keeps on getting better.
>
> I sincerely hope Google continues to promote this awesome framework and
> continue to make web development so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to
> see it go away from the front page of the new google developers site,
> however agree that this is a large and formidable community which shall
> continue to move forward.
>
> Best...
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:
>>
>> Hi Joseph
>> On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:
>> > Alan,
>> >
>> > Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the
>> > efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise
>> > building such a framework would most certainly charge the Earth for it
>> > while also crippling its functionality in exchange for customer
>> > lock-in. Google just makes great software.
>> >
>> > However, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of
>> > Practice group must make a case for why any new application should use
>> > GWT. It is important to management to know the future of GWT and a
>> > roadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personally think
>> > GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap
>> > and rough release schedule will lend greater confidence to others in
>> > the stability and longevity of the framework needed before a company
>> > is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it.
>> >
>>
>> Have you seen this thread on Google+?
>> https://plus.google.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ
>>
>> especially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric
>> Clayberg's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and
>> pasted two comments which caught me eye.
>> <SNIP>
>> Ray Cromwell: "Many of Google's services are still being written in GWT
>> and won't change anytime soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from
>> which Google derives the majority of their revenue, are written in GWT,
>> so given that fact alone, GWT will be around for a long time and
>> continue to be improved. The loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set
>> back (unrelated to Dart), and we have people trying to get up to speed
>> on their contributions to maintain them, but honesty, we rely on many of
>> our top external users like Thomas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill
>> the gap until that time. (Thanks guys) Turnover is natural and happens
>> at all companies, and it's always rough.
>>
>> The next release or two of GWT may include more core improvements than
>> the last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:
>> 1) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed,
>> and 15% gzipped
>> 2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in Chrome (and
>> hopefully Firefox)
>> 3) A "super draft mode" that can recompile many apps in under 10 seconds
>> and most under 5
>> 4) New "to the metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings
>> 5) Testing framework that makes GUI testing delightful
>> 6) Incremental compile support to speed up production compiles
>>
>> So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug (in some
>> situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This reflects
>> somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up on
>> other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be improved
>> responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.
>>
>> Obviously, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java
>> isn't going away anytime soon. :)"
>> </SNIP>
>> <SNIP>
>> Eric Clayberg: "I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode.
>> Not even close! Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT
>> team continues to focus on making GWT a great choice for building
>> structured web applications now and in the future. If you have the need
>> to start a new web app project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and
>> there is no reason to avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we
>> have very ambitious plans for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large,
>> important projects within Google (and outside Google), and that is
>> unlikely to change any time soon."
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>> I accept that its not an official roadmap - but it seems to give a clear
>> indication of a continued commitment to developing GWT, albeit on a
>> slower scale than before. I shoudl add that I have no commercial
>> affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GWT in a couple of
>> different projects in two different companies.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> > If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand why such planning
>> > would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it, such public
>> > planning will only drive more companies and startups to join the GWT
>> > bandwagon.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ.
>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > google-web-toolkit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
>>
>>
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:
>
> + 1...
>
> Working on web apps since web came to existence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML,
> javascript, struts and it was a real mess and did not truly enjoy it.
> Also,apps created were error prone with code bloat and good design was
> messy and a challenge.
>
> The power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a
> complete game changing innovation compared to the page based development,
> untyped and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end user
> experiences.
>
> Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML5/CSS and supporting a truly open
> standard already qualifies this to be the best design experience for
> someone like me who really enjoys good application design. Augmenting GWT
> with frameworks like GWTP and other opensource frameworks makes this
> a formidable high performing application design architecture out there. I
> have yet to find a solid scalable OO/Java based design framework with this
> kind of pure OO and componentization power for user experience
> management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and it keeps on getting better.
>
> I sincerely hope Google continues to promote this awesome framework and
> continue to make web development so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to
> see it go away from the front page of the new google developers site,
> however agree that this is a large and formidable community which shall
> continue to move forward.
>
> Best...
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:
>>
>> Hi Joseph
>> On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:
>> > Alan,
>> >
>> > Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the
>> > efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise
>> > building such a framework would most certainly charge the Earth for it
>> > while also crippling its functionality in exchange for customer
>> > lock-in. Google just makes great software.
>> >
>> > However, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of
>> > Practice group must make a case for why any new application should use
>> > GWT. It is important to management to know the future of GWT and a
>> > roadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personally think
>> > GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap
>> > and rough release schedule will lend greater confidence to others in
>> > the stability and longevity of the framework needed before a company
>> > is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it.
>> >
>>
>> Have you seen this thread on Google+?
>> https://plus.google.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ
>>
>> especially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric
>> Clayberg's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and
>> pasted two comments which caught me eye.
>> <SNIP>
>> Ray Cromwell: "Many of Google's services are still being written in GWT
>> and won't change anytime soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from
>> which Google derives the majority of their revenue, are written in GWT,
>> so given that fact alone, GWT will be around for a long time and
>> continue to be improved. The loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set
>> back (unrelated to Dart), and we have people trying to get up to speed
>> on their contributions to maintain them, but honesty, we rely on many of
>> our top external users like Thomas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill
>> the gap until that time. (Thanks guys) Turnover is natural and happens
>> at all companies, and it's always rough.
>>
>> The next release or two of GWT may include more core improvements than
>> the last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:
>> 1) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed,
>> and 15% gzipped
>> 2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in Chrome (and
>> hopefully Firefox)
>> 3) A "super draft mode" that can recompile many apps in under 10 seconds
>> and most under 5
>> 4) New "to the metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings
>> 5) Testing framework that makes GUI testing delightful
>> 6) Incremental compile support to speed up production compiles
>>
>> So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug (in some
>> situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This reflects
>> somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up on
>> other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be improved
>> responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.
>>
>> Obviously, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java
>> isn't going away anytime soon. :)"
>> </SNIP>
>> <SNIP>
>> Eric Clayberg: "I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode.
>> Not even close! Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT
>> team continues to focus on making GWT a great choice for building
>> structured web applications now and in the future. If you have the need
>> to start a new web app project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and
>> there is no reason to avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we
>> have very ambitious plans for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large,
>> important projects within Google (and outside Google), and that is
>> unlikely to change any time soon."
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>> I accept that its not an official roadmap - but it seems to give a clear
>> indication of a continued commitment to developing GWT, albeit on a
>> slower scale than before. I shoudl add that I have no commercial
>> affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GWT in a couple of
>> different projects in two different companies.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> > If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand why such planning
>> > would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it, such public
>> > planning will only drive more companies and startups to join the GWT
>> > bandwagon.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ.
>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > google-web-toolkit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
>>
>>
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:
>
> + 1...
>
> Working on web apps since web came to existence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML,
> javascript, struts and it was a real mess and did not truly enjoy it.
> Also,apps created were error prone with code bloat and good design was
> messy and a challenge.
>
> The power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a
> complete game changing innovation compared to the page based development,
> untyped and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end user
> experiences.
>
> Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML5/CSS and supporting a truly open
> standard already qualifies this to be the best design experience for
> someone like me who really enjoys good application design. Augmenting GWT
> with frameworks like GWTP and other opensource frameworks makes this
> a formidable high performing application design architecture out there. I
> have yet to find a solid scalable OO/Java based design framework with this
> kind of pure OO and componentization power for user experience
> management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and it keeps on getting better.
>
> I sincerely hope Google continues to promote this awesome framework and
> continue to make web development so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to
> see it go away from the front page of the new google developers site,
> however agree that this is a large and formidable community which shall
> continue to move forward.
>
> Best...
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:
>>
>> Hi Joseph
>> On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:
>> > Alan,
>> >
>> > Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the
>> > efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise
>> > building such a framework would most certainly charge the Earth for it
>> > while also crippling its functionality in exchange for customer
>> > lock-in. Google just makes great software.
>> >
>> > However, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of
>> > Practice group must make a case for why any new application should use
>> > GWT. It is important to management to know the future of GWT and a
>> > roadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personally think
>> > GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap
>> > and rough release schedule will lend greater confidence to others in
>> > the stability and longevity of the framework needed before a company
>> > is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it.
>> >
>>
>> Have you seen this thread on Google+?
>> https://plus.google.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ
>>
>> especially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric
>> Clayberg's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and
>> pasted two comments which caught me eye.
>> <SNIP>
>> Ray Cromwell: "Many of Google's services are still being written in GWT
>> and won't change anytime soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from
>> which Google derives the majority of their revenue, are written in GWT,
>> so given that fact alone, GWT will be around for a long time and
>> continue to be improved. The loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set
>> back (unrelated to Dart), and we have people trying to get up to speed
>> on their contributions to maintain them, but honesty, we rely on many of
>> our top external users like Thomas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill
>> the gap until that time. (Thanks guys) Turnover is natural and happens
>> at all companies, and it's always rough.
>>
>> The next release or two of GWT may include more core improvements than
>> the last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:
>> 1) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed,
>> and 15% gzipped
>> 2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in Chrome (and
>> hopefully Firefox)
>> 3) A "super draft mode" that can recompile many apps in under 10 seconds
>> and most under 5
>> 4) New "to the metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings
>> 5) Testing framework that makes GUI testing delightful
>> 6) Incremental compile support to speed up production compiles
>>
>> So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug (in some
>> situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This reflects
>> somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up on
>> other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be improved
>> responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.
>>
>> Obviously, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java
>> isn't going away anytime soon. :)"
>> </SNIP>
>> <SNIP>
>> Eric Clayberg: "I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode.
>> Not even close! Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT
>> team continues to focus on making GWT a great choice for building
>> structured web applications now and in the future. If you have the need
>> to start a new web app project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and
>> there is no reason to avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we
>> have very ambitious plans for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large,
>> important projects within Google (and outside Google), and that is
>> unlikely to change any time soon."
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>> I accept that its not an official roadmap - but it seems to give a clear
>> indication of a continued commitment to developing GWT, albeit on a
>> slower scale than before. I shoudl add that I have no commercial
>> affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GWT in a couple of
>> different projects in two different companies.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> > If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand why such planning
>> > would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it, such public
>> > planning will only drive more companies and startups to join the GWT
>> > bandwagon.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ.
>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > google-web-toolkit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
>>
>>
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:
>
> + 1...
>
> Working on web apps since web came to existence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML,
> javascript, struts and it was a real mess and did not truly enjoy it.
> Also,apps created were error prone with code bloat and good design was
> messy and a challenge.
>
> The power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a
> complete game changing innovation compared to the page based development,
> untyped and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end user
> experiences.
>
> Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML5/CSS and supporting a truly open
> standard already qualifies this to be the best design experience for
> someone like me who really enjoys good application design. Augmenting GWT
> with frameworks like GWTP and other opensource frameworks makes this
> a formidable high performing application design architecture out there. I
> have yet to find a solid scalable OO/Java based design framework with this
> kind of pure OO and componentization power for user experience
> management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and it keeps on getting better.
>
> I sincerely hope Google continues to promote this awesome framework and
> continue to make web development so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to
> see it go away from the front page of the new google developers site,
> however agree that this is a large and formidable community which shall
> continue to move forward.
>
> Best...
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:
>>
>> Hi Joseph
>> On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:
>> > Alan,
>> >
>> > Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the
>> > efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise
>> > building such a framework would most certainly charge the Earth for it
>> > while also crippling its functionality in exchange for customer
>> > lock-in. Google just makes great software.
>> >
>> > However, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of
>> > Practice group must make a case for why any new application should use
>> > GWT. It is important to management to know the future of GWT and a
>> > roadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personally think
>> > GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap
>> > and rough release schedule will lend greater confidence to others in
>> > the stability and longevity of the framework needed before a company
>> > is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it.
>> >
>>
>> Have you seen this thread on Google+?
>> https://plus.google.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ
>>
>> especially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric
>> Clayberg's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and
>> pasted two comments which caught me eye.
>> <SNIP>
>> Ray Cromwell: "Many of Google's services are still being written in GWT
>> and won't change anytime soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from
>> which Google derives the majority of their revenue, are written in GWT,
>> so given that fact alone, GWT will be around for a long time and
>> continue to be improved. The loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set
>> back (unrelated to Dart), and we have people trying to get up to speed
>> on their contributions to maintain them, but honesty, we rely on many of
>> our top external users like Thomas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill
>> the gap until that time. (Thanks guys) Turnover is natural and happens
>> at all companies, and it's always rough.
>>
>> The next release or two of GWT may include more core improvements than
>> the last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:
>> 1) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed,
>> and 15% gzipped
>> 2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in Chrome (and
>> hopefully Firefox)
>> 3) A "super draft mode" that can recompile many apps in under 10 seconds
>> and most under 5
>> 4) New "to the metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings
>> 5) Testing framework that makes GUI testing delightful
>> 6) Incremental compile support to speed up production compiles
>>
>> So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug (in some
>> situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This reflects
>> somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up on
>> other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be improved
>> responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.
>>
>> Obviously, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java
>> isn't going away anytime soon. :)"
>> </SNIP>
>> <SNIP>
>> Eric Clayberg: "I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode.
>> Not even close! Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT
>> team continues to focus on making GWT a great choice for building
>> structured web applications now and in the future. If you have the need
>> to start a new web app project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and
>> there is no reason to avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we
>> have very ambitious plans for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large,
>> important projects within Google (and outside Google), and that is
>> unlikely to change any time soon."
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>> I accept that its not an official roadmap - but it seems to give a clear
>> indication of a continued commitment to developing GWT, albeit on a
>> slower scale than before. I shoudl add that I have no commercial
>> affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GWT in a couple of
>> different projects in two different companies.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> > If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand why such planning
>> > would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it, such public
>> > planning will only drive more companies and startups to join the GWT
>> > bandwagon.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ.
>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > google-web-toolkit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
>>
>>
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:
>
> + 1...
>
> Working on web apps since web came to existence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML,
> javascript, struts and it was a real mess and did not truly enjoy it.
> Also,apps created were error prone with code bloat and good design was
> messy and a challenge.
>
> The power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a
> complete game changing innovation compared to the page based development,
> untyped and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end user
> experiences.
>
> Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML5/CSS and supporting a truly open
> standard already qualifies this to be the best design experience for
> someone like me who really enjoys good application design. Augmenting GWT
> with frameworks like GWTP and other opensource frameworks makes this
> a formidable high performing application design architecture out there. I
> have yet to find a solid scalable OO/Java based design framework with this
> kind of pure OO and componentization power for user experience
> management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and it keeps on getting better.
>
> I sincerely hope Google continues to promote this awesome framework and
> continue to make web development so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to
> see it go away from the front page of the new google developers site,
> however agree that this is a large and formidable community which shall
> continue to move forward.
>
> Best...
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:
>>
>> Hi Joseph
>> On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:
>> > Alan,
>> >
>> > Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the
>> > efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise
>> > building such a framework would most certainly charge the Earth for it
>> > while also crippling its functionality in exchange for customer
>> > lock-in. Google just makes great software.
>> >
>> > However, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of
>> > Practice group must make a case for why any new application should use
>> > GWT. It is important to management to know the future of GWT and a
>> > roadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personally think
>> > GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap
>> > and rough release schedule will lend greater confidence to others in
>> > the stability and longevity of the framework needed before a company
>> > is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it.
>> >
>>
>> Have you seen this thread on Google+?
>> https://plus.google.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ
>>
>> especially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric
>> Clayberg's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and
>> pasted two comments which caught me eye.
>> <SNIP>
>> Ray Cromwell: "Many of Google's services are still being written in GWT
>> and won't change anytime soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from
>> which Google derives the majority of their revenue, are written in GWT,
>> so given that fact alone, GWT will be around for a long time and
>> continue to be improved. The loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set
>> back (unrelated to Dart), and we have people trying to get up to speed
>> on their contributions to maintain them, but honesty, we rely on many of
>> our top external users like Thomas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill
>> the gap until that time. (Thanks guys) Turnover is natural and happens
>> at all companies, and it's always rough.
>>
>> The next release or two of GWT may include more core improvements than
>> the last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:
>> 1) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed,
>> and 15% gzipped
>> 2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in Chrome (and
>> hopefully Firefox)
>> 3) A "super draft mode" that can recompile many apps in under 10 seconds
>> and most under 5
>> 4) New "to the metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings
>> 5) Testing framework that makes GUI testing delightful
>> 6) Incremental compile support to speed up production compiles
>>
>> So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug (in some
>> situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This reflects
>> somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up on
>> other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be improved
>> responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.
>>
>> Obviously, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java
>> isn't going away anytime soon. :)"
>> </SNIP>
>> <SNIP>
>> Eric Clayberg: "I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode.
>> Not even close! Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT
>> team continues to focus on making GWT a great choice for building
>> structured web applications now and in the future. If you have the need
>> to start a new web app project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and
>> there is no reason to avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we
>> have very ambitious plans for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large,
>> important projects within Google (and outside Google), and that is
>> unlikely to change any time soon."
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>> I accept that its not an official roadmap - but it seems to give a clear
>> indication of a continued commitment to developing GWT, albeit on a
>> slower scale than before. I shoudl add that I have no commercial
>> affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GWT in a couple of
>> different projects in two different companies.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> > If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand why such planning
>> > would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it, such public
>> > planning will only drive more companies and startups to join the GWT
>> > bandwagon.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ.
>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > google-web-toolkit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
>>
>>
------=_Part_82_33078232.1333545638024
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div>Joseph, Coderinabstract<br><br>I agree with you both.<br>I also apprec=
iate the GWT contributors, and I hope Google will continue to support and i=
mprove this toolkit,<br>But since there was no official movement on the blo=
g and on the project page for about 6 months, I believe it is our responsib=
ility to let google know it is missing, and we hurt for that, help me sprea=
d the word please.<br><br>Alan,<br>I am following Ray, and saw that post. I=
am also searching constantly for new updates about the project, but don't =
you agree it should have been at least posted also in the blog? again, if y=
ou want the community to grow, you must make it easier for new comers to jo=
in and bring them up to date.<br></div><div><br> </div>On Wednesday, A=
pril 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:<blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left: 1ex;">+ 1...<div><br></div><div>Working on web apps since =
web came to existence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML, javascript, struts and it w=
as a real mess and did not truly enjoy it. Also,apps created were error pro=
ne with code bloat and good design was messy and a challenge.</div><div><br=
></div><div>The power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with =
GWT is a complete game changing innovation compared to the page based devel=
opment, untyped and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end=
user experiences. </div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely hope thats GWTs=
power with HTML5/CSS and supporting a truly open standard alread=
y qualifies this to be the best design experience for someone like me who r=
eally enjoys good application design. Augmenting GWT with frameworks like G=
WTP and other opensource frameworks makes this a formidable high =
performing application design architecture out there. I have yet to find a =
solid scalable OO/Java based design framework with this kind of pure OO and=
componentization power for user experience management... combine that with=
GIN/GUICE and it keeps on getting better.</div><div><br></div><div>I since=
rely hope Google continues to promote this awesome framework and continue t=
o make web development so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to s=
ee it go away from the front page of the new google developers site, howeve=
r agree that this is a large and formidable community which shall continue =
to move forward.</div><div><br></div><div>Best...<br><br>On Tuesday, April =
3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">Hi Joseph<br>On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:<br>> A=
lan,<br>><br>> Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grate=
ful for the <br>> efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any oth=
er enterprise <br>> building such a framework would most certainly charg=
e the Earth for it <br>> while also crippling its functionality in excha=
nge for customer <br>> lock-in. Google just makes great software.<br>>=
;<br>> However, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of =
<br>> Practice group must make a case for why any new application should=
use <br>> GWT. It is important to management to know the future of GWT =
and a <br>> roadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personal=
ly think <br>> GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google=
, a roadmap <br>> and rough release schedule will lend greater confidenc=
e to others in <br>> the stability and longevity of the framework needed=
before a company <br>> is willing to build multi-million dollar project=
s with it.<br>><p>Have you seen this thread on Google+?<br><a href=3D"ht=
tps://plus.google.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://plus.google.com/<wbr>117487419861992917007/posts/<wbr>6YWpsHp=
qMqZ</a></p><p>especially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also =
Eric <br>Clayberg's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied =
and <br>pasted two comments which caught me eye.<br><SNIP><br>Ray Cro=
mwell: "Many of Google's services are still being written in GWT <br>and wo=
n't change anytime soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from <br>which Go=
ogle derives the majority of their revenue, are written in GWT, <br>so give=
n that fact alone, GWT will be around for a long time and <br>continue to b=
e improved. The loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set <br>back (unrelated=
to Dart), and we have people trying to get up to speed <br>on their contri=
butions to maintain them, but honesty, we rely on many of <br>our top exter=
nal users like Thomas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill <br>the gap until=
that time. (Thanks guys) Turnover is natural and happens <br>at all compan=
ies, and it's always rough.</p><p>The next release or two of GWT may includ=
e more core improvements than <br>the last few point releases of GWT so far=
, consider:<br>1) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% un=
compressed, <br>and 15% gzipped<br>2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Ja=
va debugging in Chrome (and <br>hopefully Firefox)<br>3) A "super draft mod=
e" that can recompile many apps in under 10 seconds <br>and most under 5<br=
>4) New "to the metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings<br>5) Testing framewo=
rk that makes GUI testing delightful<br>6) Incremental compile support to s=
peed up production compiles</p><p>So code will be getting smaller, faster, =
easier to debug (in some <br>situations) and test, and compiles will go qui=
cker. This reflects <br>somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as =
people ramp up on <br>other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure the=
re will be improved <br>responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.=
</p><p>Obviously, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Jav=
a <br>isn't going away anytime soon. :)"<br></SNIP><br><SNIP><b=
r>Eric Clayberg: "I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode. <br=
>Not even close! Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT <br>t=
eam continues to focus on making GWT a great choice for building <br>struct=
ured web applications now and in the future. If you have the need <br>to st=
art a new web app project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and <br>there =
is no reason to avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we <br>have ve=
ry ambitious plans for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large, <br>importa=
nt projects within Google (and outside Google), and that is <br>unlikely to=
change any time soon."<br><SNIP></p><p><br>I accept that its not an =
official roadmap - but it seems to give a clear <br>indication of a continu=
ed commitment to developing GWT, albeit on a <br>slower scale than before. =
I shoudl add that I have no commercial <br>affliation with Google whatsoeve=
r, I just use GWT in a couple of <br>different projects in two different co=
mpanies.</p><p>Alan</p><p></p><p>> If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I do=
n't understand why such planning <br>> would be detrimental to the GWT t=
eam. As I see it, such public <br>> planning will only drive more compan=
ies and startups to join the GWT <br>> bandwagon.<br>><br>> Sincer=
ely,<br>> Joseph<br>><br>><br>> -- <br>> You received this m=
essage because you are subscribed to the Google <br>> Groups "Google Web=
Toolkit" group.<br>> To view this discussion on the web visit <br>> =
<a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFg=
J" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/<wbr>msg/google-web-toolki=
t/-/<wbr>5rzWGy06oFgJ</a>.<br>> To post to this group, send email to <a =
href=3D"mailto:google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">googl=
e-web-toolkit@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>> To unsubscribe from this g=
roup, send email to <br>> <a href=3D"mailto:google-web-toolkit%2Bunsubsc=
ribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">google-web-toolkit+<wbr>unsubscrib=
e@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>> For more options, visit this group at <br>&=
gt; <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/google-web-toolkit?hl=
=3Den</a><wbr>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p>=
<p></p><p></p></blockquote></div></blockquote><br>On Wednesday, April 4, 20=
12 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left: 1ex;">+ 1...<div><br></div><div>Working on web apps since web came t=
o existence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML, javascript, struts and it was a real =
mess and did not truly enjoy it. Also,apps created were error prone with co=
de bloat and good design was messy and a challenge.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>The power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a c=
omplete game changing innovation compared to the page based development, un=
typed and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end user expe=
riences. </div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely hope thats GWTs power wit=
h HTML5/CSS and supporting a truly open standard already qualifie=
s this to be the best design experience for someone like me who really enjo=
ys good application design. Augmenting GWT with frameworks like GWTP and ot=
her opensource frameworks makes this a formidable high performing=
application design architecture out there. I have yet to find a solid scal=
able OO/Java based design framework with this kind of pure OO and component=
ization power for user experience management... combine that with GIN/GUICE=
and it keeps on getting better.</div><div><br></div><div>I sincerely hope =
Google continues to promote this awesome framework and continue to make web=
development so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to see it go a=
way from the front page of the new google developers site, however agree th=
at this is a large and formidable community which shall continue to move fo=
rward.</div><div><br></div><div>Best...<br><br>On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12=
:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>Hi Joseph<br>On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:<br>> Alan,<br>&=
gt;<br>> Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for t=
he <br>> efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterp=
rise <br>> building such a framework would most certainly charge the Ear=
th for it <br>> while also crippling its functionality in exchange for c=
ustomer <br>> lock-in. Google just makes great software.<br>><br>>=
However, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of <br>> =
Practice group must make a case for why any new application should use <br>=
> GWT. It is important to management to know the future of GWT and a <br=
>> roadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personally think =
<br>> GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadm=
ap <br>> and rough release schedule will lend greater confidence to othe=
rs in <br>> the stability and longevity of the framework needed before a=
company <br>> is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it=
.<br>><p>Have you seen this thread on Google+?<br><a href=3D"https://plu=
s.google.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://plus.google.com/<wbr>117487419861992917007/posts/<wbr>6YWpsHpqMqZ</a><=
/p><p>especially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric <br>=
Clayberg's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and <br>p=
asted two comments which caught me eye.<br><SNIP><br>Ray Cromwell: "M=
any of Google's services are still being written in GWT <br>and won't chang=
e anytime soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from <br>which Google deri=
ves the majority of their revenue, are written in GWT, <br>so given that fa=
ct alone, GWT will be around for a long time and <br>continue to be improve=
d. The loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set <br>back (unrelated to Dart)=
, and we have people trying to get up to speed <br>on their contributions t=
o maintain them, but honesty, we rely on many of <br>our top external users=
like Thomas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill <br>the gap until that tim=
e. (Thanks guys) Turnover is natural and happens <br>at all companies, and =
it's always rough.</p><p>The next release or two of GWT may include more co=
re improvements than <br>the last few point releases of GWT so far, conside=
r:<br>1) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompresse=
d, <br>and 15% gzipped<br>2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugg=
ing in Chrome (and <br>hopefully Firefox)<br>3) A "super draft mode" that c=
an recompile many apps in under 10 seconds <br>and most under 5<br>4) New "=
to the metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings<br>5) Testing framework that m=
akes GUI testing delightful<br>6) Incremental compile support to speed up p=
roduction compiles</p><p>So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to=
debug (in some <br>situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. Thi=
s reflects <br>somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ra=
mp up on <br>other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will b=
e improved <br>responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.</p><p>Ob=
viously, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java <br>isn=
't going away anytime soon. :)"<br></SNIP><br><SNIP><br>Eric Cl=
ayberg: "I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode. <br>Not even=
close! Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT <br>team conti=
nues to focus on making GWT a great choice for building <br>structured web =
applications now and in the future. If you have the need <br>to start a new=
web app project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and <br>there is no rea=
son to avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we <br>have very ambiti=
ous plans for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large, <br>important projec=
ts within Google (and outside Google), and that is <br>unlikely to change a=
ny time soon."<br><SNIP></p><p><br>I accept that its not an official =
roadmap - but it seems to give a clear <br>indication of a continued commit=
ment to developing GWT, albeit on a <br>slower scale than before. I shoudl =
add that I have no commercial <br>affliation with Google whatsoever, I just=
use GWT in a couple of <br>different projects in two different companies.<=
/p><p>Alan</p><p></p><p>> If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't under=
stand why such planning <br>> would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I=
see it, such public <br>> planning will only drive more companies and s=
tartups to join the GWT <br>> bandwagon.<br>><br>> Sincerely,<br>&=
gt; Joseph<br>><br>><br>> -- <br>> You received this message be=
cause you are subscribed to the Google <br>> Groups "Google Web Toolkit"=
group.<br>> To view this discussion on the web visit <br>> <a href=
=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/<wbr>msg/google-web-toolkit/-/<wb=
r>5rzWGy06oFgJ</a>.<br>> To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D=
"mailto:google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">google-web-t=
oolkit@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>> To unsubscribe from this group, s=
end email to <br>> <a href=3D"mailto:google-web-toolkit%2Bunsubscribe@go=
oglegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">google-web-toolkit+<wbr>unsubscribe@googl=
egroups.com</a>.<br>> For more options, visit this group at <br>> <a =
href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den" target=
=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den<=
/a><wbr>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p=
><p></p></blockquote></div></blockquote><br>On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:0=
7:22 AM UTC+3, coderinabstract wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex;">+ 1...<div><br></div><div>Working on web apps since web came to exis=
tence.... asp, jsp, cgi, DHTML, javascript, struts and it was a real mess a=
nd did not truly enjoy it. Also,apps created were error prone with code blo=
at and good design was messy and a challenge.</div><div><br></div><div>The =
power of true OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a complet=
e game changing innovation compared to the page based development, untyped =
and script based frameworks in creating highest quality end user experience=
s. </div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML=
5/CSS and supporting a truly open standard already qualifies this=
to be the best design experience for someone like me who really enjoys goo=
d application design. Augmenting GWT with frameworks like GWTP and other op=
ensource frameworks makes this a formidable high performing appli=
cation design architecture out there. I have yet to find a solid scalable O=
O/Java based design framework with this kind of pure OO and componentizatio=
n power for user experience management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and i=
t keeps on getting better.</div><div><br></div><div>I sincerely hope Google=
continues to promote this awesome framework and continue to make web devel=
opment so much fun. Was kind of disappointed to see it go away fr=
om the front page of the new google developers site, however agree that thi=
s is a large and formidable community which shall continue to move forward.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Best...<br><br>On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53=
PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Jos=
eph<br>On 04/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:<br>> Alan,<br>><br>=
> Thanks as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the <br>=
> efforts the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise <b=
r>> building such a framework would most certainly charge the Earth for =
it <br>> while also crippling its functionality in exchange for customer=
<br>> lock-in. Google just makes great software.<br>><br>> Howeve=
r, I work in a large enterprise where our GWT Community of <br>> Practic=
e group must make a case for why any new application should use <br>> GW=
T. It is important to management to know the future of GWT and a <br>> r=
oadmap is how this is commonly done. While I don't personally think <br>>=
; GWT will suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap <br>=
> and rough release schedule will lend greater confidence to others in <=
br>> the stability and longevity of the framework needed before a compan=
y <br>> is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it.<br>&g=
t;<p>Have you seen this thread on Google+?<br><a href=3D"https://plus.googl=
e.com/117487419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ" target=3D"_blank">https://pl=
us.google.com/<wbr>117487419861992917007/posts/<wbr>6YWpsHpqMqZ</a></p><p>e=
specially Ray Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric <br>Clayber=
g's - I suggest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and <br>pasted t=
wo comments which caught me eye.<br><SNIP><br>Ray Cromwell: "Many of =
Google's services are still being written in GWT <br>and won't change anyti=
me soon, for example AdWords and AdSense, from <br>which Google derives the=
majority of their revenue, are written in GWT, <br>so given that fact alon=
e, GWT will be around for a long time and <br>continue to be improved. The =
loss of Ray Ryan and Bob were a big set <br>back (unrelated to Dart), and w=
e have people trying to get up to speed <br>on their contributions to maint=
ain them, but honesty, we rely on many of <br>our top external users like T=
homas Broyer and Stephan Haberman to fill <br>the gap until that time. (Tha=
nks guys) Turnover is natural and happens <br>at all companies, and it's al=
ways rough.</p><p>The next release or two of GWT may include more core impr=
ovements than <br>the last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:<br>1=
) Compiler optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed, <br>=
and 15% gzipped<br>2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in =
Chrome (and <br>hopefully Firefox)<br>3) A "super draft mode" that can reco=
mpile many apps in under 10 seconds <br>and most under 5<br>4) New "to the =
metal" "modern browser" HTML bindings<br>5) Testing framework that makes GU=
I testing delightful<br>6) Incremental compile support to speed up producti=
on compiles</p><p>So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug =
(in some <br>situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This refle=
cts <br>somewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up o=
n <br>other parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be impro=
ved <br>responsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.</p><p>Obviously=
, we want Dart to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java <br>isn't goin=
g away anytime soon. :)"<br></SNIP><br><SNIP><br>Eric Clayberg:=
"I can assure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode. <br>Not even close!=
Quite the contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT <br>team continues to=
focus on making GWT a great choice for building <br>structured web applica=
tions now and in the future. If you have the need <br>to start a new web ap=
p project, GWT would be an excellent choice, and <br>there is no reason to =
avoid it. The GWT team is fully staffed, and we <br>have very ambitious pla=
ns for GWT's future. GWT is used by many large, <br>important projects with=
in Google (and outside Google), and that is <br>unlikely to change any time=
soon."<br><SNIP></p><p><br>I accept that its not an official roadmap=
- but it seems to give a clear <br>indication of a continued commitment to=
developing GWT, albeit on a <br>slower scale than before. I shoudl add tha=
t I have no commercial <br>affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GW=
T in a couple of <br>different projects in two different companies.</p><p>A=
lan</p><p></p><p>> If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand w=
hy such planning <br>> would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it=
, such public <br>> planning will only drive more companies and startups=
to join the GWT <br>> bandwagon.<br>><br>> Sincerely,<br>> Jos=
eph<br>><br>><br>> -- <br>> You received this message because y=
ou are subscribed to the Google <br>> Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.=
<br>> To view this discussion on the web visit <br>> <a href=3D"https=
://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://groups.google.com/d/<wbr>msg/google-web-toolkit/-/<wbr>5rzWGy0=
6oFgJ</a>.<br>> To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:g=
oogle-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">google-web-toolkit@<w=
br>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email=
to <br>> <a href=3D"mailto:google-web-toolkit%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroup=
s.com" target=3D"_blank">google-web-toolkit+<wbr>unsubscr...@googlegroups.c=
om</a>.<br>> For more options, visit this group at <br>> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den</a><wbr>.</=
p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></b=
lockquote></div></blockquote><br>On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC=
+3, coderinabstract wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">+ 1.=
..<div><br></div><div>Working on web apps since web came to existence.... a=
sp, jsp, cgi, DHTML, javascript, struts and it was a real mess and did not =
truly enjoy it. Also,apps created were error prone with code bloat and good=
design was messy and a challenge.</div><div><br></div><div>The power of tr=
ue OO, with Java, generics and good design with GWT is a complete game chan=
ging innovation compared to the page based development, untyped and script =
based frameworks in creating highest quality end user experiences. </d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML5/CSS and s=
upporting a truly open standard already qualifies this to be the =
best design experience for someone like me who really enjoys good applicati=
on design. Augmenting GWT with frameworks like GWTP and other opensource fr=
ameworks makes this a formidable high performing application desi=
gn architecture out there. I have yet to find a solid scalable OO/Java base=
d design framework with this kind of pure OO and componentization power for=
user experience management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and it keeps on =
getting better.</div><div><br></div><div>I sincerely hope Google continues =
to promote this awesome framework and continue to make web development so m=
uch fun. Was kind of disappointed to see it go away from the fron=
t page of the new google developers site, however agree that this is a larg=
e and formidable community which shall continue to move forward.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Best...<br><br>On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, =
Alan Chaney wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margi=
n-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Joseph<br>On 0=
4/03/2012 08:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:<br>> Alan,<br>><br>> Thanks=
as always for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the <br>> effort=
s the Google developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise <br>> buil=
ding such a framework would most certainly charge the Earth for it <br>>=
while also crippling its functionality in exchange for customer <br>> l=
ock-in. Google just makes great software.<br>><br>> However, I work i=
n a large enterprise where our GWT Community of <br>> Practice group mus=
t make a case for why any new application should use <br>> GWT. It is im=
portant to management to know the future of GWT and a <br>> roadmap is h=
ow this is commonly done. While I don't personally think <br>> GWT will =
suffer from the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap <br>> and ro=
ugh release schedule will lend greater confidence to others in <br>> the=
stability and longevity of the framework needed before a company <br>> =
is willing to build multi-million dollar projects with it.<br>><p>Have y=
ou seen this thread on Google+?<br><a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/11748=
7419861992917007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ" target=3D"_blank">https://plus.google.c=
om/<wbr>117487419861992917007/posts/<wbr>6YWpsHpqMqZ</a></p><p>especially R=
ay Cromwell's comment about half-way down? Also Eric <br>Clayberg's - I sug=
gest you read the whole thread, but I've copied and <br>pasted two comments=
which caught me eye.<br><SNIP><br>Ray Cromwell: "Many of Google's se=
rvices are still being written in GWT <br>and won't change anytime soon, fo=
r example AdWords and AdSense, from <br>which Google derives the majority o=
f their revenue, are written in GWT, <br>so given that fact alone, GWT will=
be around for a long time and <br>continue to be improved. The loss of Ray=
Ryan and Bob were a big set <br>back (unrelated to Dart), and we have peop=
le trying to get up to speed <br>on their contributions to maintain them, b=
ut honesty, we rely on many of <br>our top external users like Thomas Broye=
r and Stephan Haberman to fill <br>the gap until that time. (Thanks guys) T=
urnover is natural and happens <br>at all companies, and it's always rough.=
</p><p>The next release or two of GWT may include more core improvements th=
an <br>the last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:<br>1) Compiler =
optimizations that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed, <br>and 15% gzi=
pped<br>2) SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in Chrome (and=
<br>hopefully Firefox)<br>3) A "super draft mode" that can recompile many =
apps in under 10 seconds <br>and most under 5<br>4) New "to the metal" "mod=
ern browser" HTML bindings<br>5) Testing framework that makes GUI testing d=
elightful<br>6) Incremental compile support to speed up production compiles=
</p><p>So code will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug (in some <b=
r>situations) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This reflects <br>som=
ewhat the shift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up on <br>other=
parts of the SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be improved <br>res=
ponsiveness to fixing bugs in that area as well.</p><p>Obviously, we want D=
art to be a huge success, but even if it is, Java <br>isn't going away anyt=
ime soon. :)"<br></SNIP><br><SNIP><br>Eric Clayberg: "I can ass=
ure you that GWT is not in maintenance mode. <br>Not even close! Quite the =
contrary, GWT is very healthy, and the GWT <br>team continues to focus on m=
aking GWT a great choice for building <br>structured web applications now a=
nd in the future. If you have the need <br>to start a new web app project, =
GWT would be an excellent choice, and <br>there is no reason to avoid it. T=
he GWT team is fully staffed, and we <br>have very ambitious plans for GWT'=
s future. GWT is used by many large, <br>important projects within Google (=
and outside Google), and that is <br>unlikely to change any time soon."<br>=
<SNIP></p><p><br>I accept that its not an official roadmap - but it s=
eems to give a clear <br>indication of a continued commitment to developing=
GWT, albeit on a <br>slower scale than before. I shoudl add that I have no=
commercial <br>affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GWT in a coup=
le of <br>different projects in two different companies.</p><p>Alan</p><p><=
/p><p>> If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand why such pla=
nning <br>> would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it, such publ=
ic <br>> planning will only drive more companies and startups to join th=
e GWT <br>> bandwagon.<br>><br>> Sincerely,<br>> Joseph<br>>=
<br>><br>> -- <br>> You received this message because you are subs=
cribed to the Google <br>> Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.<br>> To=
view this discussion on the web visit <br>> <a href=3D"https://groups.g=
oogle.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//groups.google.com/d/<wbr>msg/google-web-toolkit/-/<wbr>5rzWGy06oFgJ</a>.<=
br>> To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:google-web-t=
oolkit@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">google-web-toolkit@<wbr>googlegr=
oups.com</a>.<br>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <br>>=
; <a href=3D"mailto:google-web-toolkit%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">google-web-toolkit+<wbr>unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>=
> For more options, visit this group at <br>> <a href=3D"http://group=
s.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://gro=
ups.google.com/<wbr>group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den</a><wbr>.</p><p></p><p=
></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></blockquote><=
/div></blockquote><br>On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:07:22 AM UTC+3, coderin=
abstract wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-=
left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">+ 1...<div><br>=
</div><div>Working on web apps since web came to existence.... asp, jsp, cg=
i, DHTML, javascript, struts and it was a real mess and did not truly enjoy=
it. Also,apps created were error prone with code bloat and good design was=
messy and a challenge.</div><div><br></div><div>The power of true OO, with=
Java, generics and good design with GWT is a complete game changing innova=
tion compared to the page based development, untyped and script based frame=
works in creating highest quality end user experiences. </div><div><br=
></div><div>Sincerely hope thats GWTs power with HTML5/CSS and supporting a=
truly open standard already qualifies this to be the best design=
experience for someone like me who really enjoys good application design. =
Augmenting GWT with frameworks like GWTP and other opensource frameworks ma=
kes this a formidable high performing application design architec=
ture out there. I have yet to find a solid scalable OO/Java based design fr=
amework with this kind of pure OO and componentization power for user exper=
ience management... combine that with GIN/GUICE and it keeps on getting bet=
ter.</div><div><br></div><div>I sincerely hope Google continues to promote =
this awesome framework and continue to make web development so much fun. Wa=
s kind of disappointed to see it go away from the front page of t=
he new google developers site, however agree that this is a large and formi=
dable community which shall continue to move forward.</div><div><br></div><=
div>Best...<br><br>On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:54:53 PM UTC-4, Alan Chaney=
wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Joseph<br>On 04/03/2012 0=
8:34 AM, Joseph Lust wrote:<br>> Alan,<br>><br>> Thanks as always =
for your courteous replies. I'm grateful for the <br>> efforts the Googl=
e developers put into GWT, as any other enterprise <br>> building such a=
framework would most certainly charge the Earth for it <br>> while also=
crippling its functionality in exchange for customer <br>> lock-in. Goo=
gle just makes great software.<br>><br>> However, I work in a large e=
nterprise where our GWT Community of <br>> Practice group must make a ca=
se for why any new application should use <br>> GWT. It is important to =
management to know the future of GWT and a <br>> roadmap is how this is =
commonly done. While I don't personally think <br>> GWT will suffer from=
the recent project pogroms at Google, a roadmap <br>> and rough release=
schedule will lend greater confidence to others in <br>> the stability =
and longevity of the framework needed before a company <br>> is willing =
to build multi-million dollar projects with it.<br>><p>Have you seen thi=
s thread on Google+?<br><a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/1174874198619929=
17007/posts/6YWpsHpqMqZ" target=3D"_blank">https://plus.google.com/<wbr>117=
487419861992917007/posts/<wbr>6YWpsHpqMqZ</a></p><p>especially Ray Cromwell=
's comment about half-way down? Also Eric <br>Clayberg's - I suggest you re=
ad the whole thread, but I've copied and <br>pasted two comments which caug=
ht me eye.<br><SNIP><br>Ray Cromwell: "Many of Google's services are =
still being written in GWT <br>and won't change anytime soon, for example A=
dWords and AdSense, from <br>which Google derives the majority of their rev=
enue, are written in GWT, <br>so given that fact alone, GWT will be around =
for a long time and <br>continue to be improved. The loss of Ray Ryan and B=
ob were a big set <br>back (unrelated to Dart), and we have people trying t=
o get up to speed <br>on their contributions to maintain them, but honesty,=
we rely on many of <br>our top external users like Thomas Broyer and Steph=
an Haberman to fill <br>the gap until that time. (Thanks guys) Turnover is =
natural and happens <br>at all companies, and it's always rough.</p><p>The =
next release or two of GWT may include more core improvements than <br>the =
last few point releases of GWT so far, consider:<br>1) Compiler optimizatio=
ns that reduce code by size by 30% uncompressed, <br>and 15% gzipped<br>2) =
SourceMap support and Source-Level Java debugging in Chrome (and <br>hopefu=
lly Firefox)<br>3) A "super draft mode" that can recompile many apps in und=
er 10 seconds <br>and most under 5<br>4) New "to the metal" "modern browser=
" HTML bindings<br>5) Testing framework that makes GUI testing delightful<b=
r>6) Incremental compile support to speed up production compiles</p><p>So c=
ode will be getting smaller, faster, easier to debug (in some <br>situation=
s) and test, and compiles will go quicker. This reflects <br>somewhat the s=
hift in GWT team composition, but as people ramp up on <br>other parts of t=
he SDK (e.g. MVP stuff), I'm sure there will be improved <br>responsiveness=
to fixing bugs in that area as well.</p><p>Obviously, we want Dart to be a=
huge success, but even if it is, Java <br>isn't going away anytime soon. :=
)"<br></SNIP><br><SNIP><br>Eric Clayberg: "I can assure you tha=
t GWT is not in maintenance mode. <br>Not even close! Quite the contrary, G=
WT is very healthy, and the GWT <br>team continues to focus on making GWT a=
great choice for building <br>structured web applications now and in the f=
uture. If you have the need <br>to start a new web app project, GWT would b=
e an excellent choice, and <br>there is no reason to avoid it. The GWT team=
is fully staffed, and we <br>have very ambitious plans for GWT's future. G=
WT is used by many large, <br>important projects within Google (and outside=
Google), and that is <br>unlikely to change any time soon."<br><SNIP>=
;</p><p><br>I accept that its not an official roadmap - but it seems to giv=
e a clear <br>indication of a continued commitment to developing GWT, albei=
t on a <br>slower scale than before. I shoudl add that I have no commercial=
<br>affliation with Google whatsoever, I just use GWT in a couple of <br>d=
ifferent projects in two different companies.</p><p>Alan</p><p></p><p>> =
If GWT retains buy-in at Google, I don't understand why such planning <br>&=
gt; would be detrimental to the GWT team. As I see it, such public <br>>=
planning will only drive more companies and startups to join the GWT <br>&=
gt; bandwagon.<br>><br>> Sincerely,<br>> Joseph<br>><br>><br=
>> -- <br>> You received this message because you are subscribed to t=
he Google <br>> Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.<br>> To view this =
discussion on the web visit <br>> <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d=
/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/5rzWGy06oFgJ" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.go=
ogle.com/d/<wbr>msg/google-web-toolkit/-/<wbr>5rzWGy06oFgJ</a>.<br>> To =
post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:google-web-toolkit@goog=
legroups.com" target=3D"_blank">google-web-toolkit@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a=
>.<br>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <br>> <a href=
=3D"mailto:google-web-toolkit%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">google-web-toolkit+<wbr>unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>> For =
more options, visit this group at <br>> <a href=3D"http://groups.google.=
com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.googl=
e.com/<wbr>group/google-web-toolkit?hl=3Den</a><wbr>.</p><p></p><p></p><p><=
/p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></blockquote></div></bl=
ockquote>
------=_Part_82_33078232.1333545638024--
------=_Part_81_25370931.1333545638023--
Message from discussion Call for action: Time to rethink a road-map and more frequent updates for GWT.
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