Google Wave Inbox Notification tool for the Windows Desktop

[Oliver Baker]

Hi all,

It was my intention from the beginning to make a Tool for your Desktop
which would tell you when you have new Waves. And I was surprised that
nobody had made one before me, so, I have made it!

This is currently only for Windows. It has a few bugs but nothing that
should make it crash, and, unlike Google I only employ myself, and
thats for free.

This will be in Beta until the Official release of Google Wave as
anything could happen in the preview.

This has been coded pretty slack (release as of this message) since
the Wave team will probably end up creating much better method of
access for external applications than the method I am using, and so it
will be re-coded for those methods. (I am still improving this one)

The link to the Project home: http://code.google.com/p/gwave-tools/

It would be much appreciated if bugs could be reported on the Project
site, I will read them, and take note of them.

Enjoy,
Oliver

[Chris Bailey]

I'd be willing to help test. Also my wave ID is Xcom923

[Sam Osborne]

Sure I'll grab it.. Gimme about half an hour and I'll come in and start testing it.

2009/10/13 Chris Bailey <xco...@gmail.com>

[pamela (Google Employee)]

Hi Oliver - 

There is no source code in the repository. Where is the source code available at?
We do not offer an API that gives access to inbox information, so I'm curious as to how you managed to do this. Can you explain further?

- pamela

[Scott Breakall]

I've downloaded the exe, but am I missing something? There's nowhere
for me to enter my wave credentials?

~Scott~

[Andrey Fedorov]

Uhoh, I hope you guys are at least running antivirus as you run exe's you downloaded online?

- Andrey

[Brian May]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 05:07:18PM -0400, Andrey Fedorov wrote:
> Uhoh, I hope you guys are at least running antivirus as you run exe's you
> downloaded online?

Even a good antivirus program won't help if the downloaded exe grabs your
Google Wave username and password and automatically sends it to the author.

Not that I am suggesting that is what this program does, but since we don't
have the source code available (yet), who knows?

Even if this project is legitimate, other similar projects may not be.

(similar concerns also apply when typing in username & password information in
waves that have untrusted robots)
--
Brian May <br...@microcomaustralia.com.au>

[James Purser]

Even without the code it is possible to do basic checks. I ran the
strings took across the exe this morning and couldn't see anything out
of the ordinary. However while it is a .net app it doesn't work under
mono.

--
Sent from my mobile device

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Pamela,

Like I said, the first release (Version 1.0) was coded pretty slack,
which is why it isn't in the repository yet. I am currently cleaning
it up and soon (next 1-2 days) it will be put into the repository.

And I am surprised that you don't know how I did this, its a
relatively simple Idea in principal, however I found was much harder
to do in code.

My application is relatively basic. On any web browser open up Google
Wave and then view its source, Google Wave builds the User Interface
after it loads the main page, which is why you can't see the User
Interface Code (Unless you are using Google Chrome and use the
Inspector on the User Interface). However, when Google Wave Finishes
loading the page before creating the GUI the source of the page
contains an Array of your Waves (Not in 100% entirety, like not all
the Blips will have all of their text written in the source of the
page) but there is an extremely sufficient amount there to Gather your
Waves, their ID's, Title, Creator etc...
After Gathering that information (Which I have not entirely perfected
yet) I display the Waves for the user in the Programs Notify Icon Menu
along with each ones Total Messages and Unread Messages.

This is pretty slack and was just a simple innovative way of doing
what nobody else (and to my surprise eluded the Google Staff) could
do.

I am going to continually release newer, more effective versions of
this application. And if the Google Wave team does release an API for
what I have done then I will update my application to use that API.

-

I realized this solution at the beginning of August when I gained
access to the Developers Sandbox. My original plan was to create a
Google Chrome extension which used this method to display Unread
messages. (I have made an extension like this for Hotmail). I had
started but unfortunately I had not completely mastered reading the
HTML Source and then when my laptop got stolen that project got
scrapped.

I have to say, being 17 and to out smart people much smarter than me
and people who work for Google and deal with making Google Wave I am
pretty surprised.

If I lived close the the Wave Hackathon instead of living in New
Zealand I probably would have made this there and then.

--

I hope this enlightens you. And is explained well.

The Source for the project should be put up on Google Code within 24
hrs of this message.

Regards,
Oliver Baker

On Oct 14, 9:49 am, "pamela (Google Employee)" <pamela...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Oliver -
> There is no source code in the repository. Where is the source code
> available at?
> We do not offer an API that gives access to inbox information, so I'm
> curious as to how you managed to do this. Can you explain further?
>
> - pamela
>

> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Sam Osborne <sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sure I'll grab it.. Gimme about half an hour and I'll come in and start
> > testing it.
>

> > 2009/10/13 Chris Bailey <xcom...@gmail.com>

[pamela (Google Employee)]

Hey Oliver-

I responded to you offline, but will also respond here to keep the thread in the forum.

I assumed that was how you were doing this, but wanted to give you a chance to explain. It is generally considered illegal to "scrape" the HTML of webpages that do not grant explicit permission for that. That is why webpages provide APIs- so that developers can legally use content.

I would advise on waiting until we offer some sort of Google data API to distribute a program like this.

- pamela

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Oliver Baker <ocb...@gmail.com> wrote:

How dare you Andrey!

I do not store any of your information what so ever excluding the last
Wave server you selected.

Any Login information you enter is immediatly put into the Google Wave
Login page to log the application into the Google Wave login page.

To enter your login details on Version 2 (Sorry I made this a little
stupidly) you will need to left click on the Notify Icon or right
click the icon, go into the Waves item, then click the login to see
your waves button.

Also, make sure you have Google Chrome Frame installed on your
computer for this to work. I am still working out the bugs.

[Oliver Baker]

Hi All,

At Pamela's request I have removed this Application from its Google
Code Project until the release of the required API pack.

Regards,
Oliver Baker

On Oct 14, 1:42 pm, "pamela (Google Employee)" <pamela...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Joe Developer]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:42 AM, pamela (Google Employee) <pame...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Oliver-

I responded to you offline, but will also respond here to keep the thread in the forum.

I assumed that was how you were doing this, but wanted to give you a chance to explain. It is generally considered illegal to "scrape" the HTML of webpages that do not grant explicit permission for that. That is why webpages provide APIs- so that developers can legally use content.

Really? Generally considered illegal? I would appreciate a link that documents such a finding. I would imagine that google search results would be fairly sparsely populated if they could only include those pages that include explicit permission for google to scrape. 

[Brian May]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 09:48:02AM +0700, Joe Developer wrote:
> Really? Generally considered illegal? I would appreciate a link that
> documents such a finding. I would imagine that google search results would
> be fairly sparsely populated if they could only include those pages that
> include explicit permission for google to scrape.

My understanding is that it is a grey area of law, and you are likely to get
different answers depending on country, what you are scrapping, what you are
using it for, who holds the copyright on the data you are scrapping, who you
ask, etc.

However scrapping is really ugly, error prone, and needs frequent updating. I
would consider these issues more important then the legal issue. Especially
as it seems likely that Google will develop a proper API in the future.
--
Brian May <br...@microcomaustralia.com.au>

[Joe Developer]

However scrapping is really ugly, error prone, and needs frequent updating. I
would consider these issues more important then the legal issue. Especially
as it seems likely that Google will develop a proper API in the future.

Absolutely. 

[pamela (Google Employee)]

Sure, good point, let me clarify, though please keep in mind that I'm not a lawyer...

According to the Google Wave terms of use, it is not permitted to "modify, adapt, translate, or reverse engineer any portion of the Service unless expressly authorized". In Oliver's prototype, he essentially reverse engineered the client display mechanism to extract the content. You can read more of the policies at: http://wave.google.com/help/wave/program_policies.html

Once we have an API to let you programmatically extract the content -- which is something we're working on -- then that API could be used to build this prototype without having to reverse engineer. Another thing to consider, more in the wave protocol effort, would be a client/server protocol -- but things are early there at the moment.

- pamela

[Joe Developer]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:11 AM, pamela (Google Employee) <pame...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sure, good point, let me clarify, though please keep in mind that I'm not a lawyer...

According to the Google Wave terms of use, it is not permitted to "modify, adapt, translate, or reverse engineer any portion of the Service unless expressly authorized". In Oliver's prototype, he essentially reverse engineered the client display mechanism to extract the content. You can read more of the policies at: http://wave.google.com/help/wave/program_policies.html

Thank you for spelling that out Pamela :)

 

[Dan Peterson]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 2:11 PM, pamela (Google Employee) <pame...@gmail.com> wrote:

Once we have an API to let you programmatically extract the content -- which is something we're working on -- then that API could be used to build this prototype without having to reverse engineer. Another thing to consider, more in the wave protocol effort, would be a client/server protocol -- but things are early there at the moment.

I'm looking forward to a day when we have such APIs exposed :)

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Guys,

Although I have pulled the program out of the project for the time being. I am still pressing on with its development (of course leaving out information retrieval for when the API is released) so I am still going to need people to help test out the program to get rid of bugs.

For those of you who have used the program before I removed it, no, it will certainly not look like that to the user when the API is released, it will look much better.

for those of you who are still interested in bug testing, you can reply to this topic and if you feel like it send me a Wave on either the Dev or the Preview (Username is ocbaker) showing your interest.

Once I have redesigned the interface enough I will start to release preview versions of the application on Google Code with temporary preview information in the place of where the real information will go when the API is released. Just so you guys can get a feel for the application and let me know what your opinion of it is.

Once again I apologize for my little mistake.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[kim3er]

Thanks for clearing that up, I was a bit taken back by the use of the
word illegal for scraping websites. I suspect that we will start to
see the nature of scraping change in the near future as websites
become the API. Pages written in valid XHTML/HTML 5 with meaningful
naming conventions (like micro formats). I don't think scraping can be
a dirty word anymore. But I can understand the need for a company like
Google to control where and how the bandwidth is used.

Rich

On Oct 14, 4:11 am, "pamela (Google Employee)" <pamela...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sure, good point, let me clarify, though please keep in mind that I'm not a
> lawyer...
>
> According to the Google Wave terms of use, it is not permitted to "modify,
> adapt, translate, or reverse engineer any portion of the Service unless
> expressly authorized". In Oliver's prototype, he essentially reverse
> engineered the client display mechanism to extract the content. You can read
> more of the policies at:http://wave.google.com/help/wave/program_policies.html
>
> Once we have an API to let you programmatically extract the content -- which
> is something we're working on -- then that API could be used to build this
> prototype without having to reverse engineer. Another thing to consider,
> more in the wave protocol effort, would be a client/server protocol -- but
> things are early there at the moment.
>
> - pamela
>

> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Joe Developer <joe.d.develo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:42 AM, pamela (Google Employee) <
> > pamela...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hey Oliver-
> >> I responded to you offline, but will also respond here to keep the thread
> >> in the forum.
>
> >> I assumed that was how you were doing this, but wanted to give you a
> >> chance to explain. It is generally considered illegal to "scrape" the HTML
> >> of webpages that do not grant explicit permission for that. That is why
> >> webpages provide APIs- so that developers can legally use content.
>
> >> Really? Generally considered illegal? I would appreciate a link that
> > documents such a finding. I would imagine that google search results would
> > be fairly sparsely populated if they could only include those pages that
> > include explicit permission for google to scrape.
>
> > I would advise on waiting until we offer some sort of Google data API to
> >> distribute a program like this.
>
> >> - pamela
>

[Oliver Baker]

Hi All,

I have good news!!!

Pamela has allowed me to continue developing and displaying my application using its current "Scrapping" method until the API comes out.

I have put the Application back on Google Code and will shortly be releasing an update which fixes the Proxy Authentication issue.

Thanks,

Oliver Baker

[Sam Osborne]

What language is it made in?

2009/10/15 Oliver Baker <ocb...@gmail.com>

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Sam,

The Application is made in Visual Basic .net 3.5 (Yes, I am only 17, still studying for a Bachelors and VB is easier than C# and obviously C/C++).

[Sam Osborne]

Ok.. I can interpret VB.net... Ish.. Now I want to know two things:

• How did you manage to get the APIs from whatever language they're in (Java/Python I think) to VB?
• Where's the source? I wanna see if I can get the source, translate it into C++, and then get it to run in Linux..
  

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Sam,

Answer to your First Question:

If you read the whole post you will know I have been given permission by Google to (For This Application only) Breach Condition L of  the Google Wave Program Policy until the relative API is released by Google.

Which means that there is no current API for what I have done.

Answer to your second question.

I am assuming that you want to create your own project based on my source code???? Seems pretty harsh Sam.

The Main part of my application that you probably want to obtain is the part which obtains the information. When the API comes out, my applications source to you that you currently want would be near pointless

The source will be put up on Google Code soon (Within 2-3 days) since parts of it have to be re-written. I don't mind you using my source code. But I am trusting people not to pull a fast one on me.

Hope that answers your questions.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[Sam Osborne]

1: Ok.

2: No, not make my own project based on yours, help you to translate it. If you turn it into C++ (which, if you can't do, I'll try to do) it'll be able to run on Windows, Mac AND Linux.
I'd be having a look at the VB code, learn how the parts I'm not sure about work and what their C++ equivalents are.
It's simply because of the fact that .net programs cannot be run on Mac or Linux, where some Wave users are. You could TRY getting it to run on AIR, but I'm not sure how that works :S
You may want to look at C++ For Dummies

[Joe Developer]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 2:49 AM, Sam Osborne <sam.to...@googlemail.com> wrote:

1: Ok.

2: No, not make my own project based on yours, help you to translate it. If you turn it into C++ (which, if you can't do, I'll try to do) it'll be able to run on Windows, Mac AND Linux.
I'd be having a look at the VB code, learn how the parts I'm not sure about work and what their C++ equivalents are.

I think you will find that the bulk of it is tied to the windows gui interface, the interfacing with Wave is done via http and scraping, basically just doing the steps that your browser does while logging you in (passing cookies and auth). 

 

It's simply because of the fact that .net programs cannot be run on Mac or Linux, where some Wave users are.

Well, there is Mono. 

 

You could TRY getting it to run on AIR, but I'm not sure how that works :S
You may want to look at C++ For Dummies

Getting weaned off VB sounds like a good call. 

 

[Sam Osborne]

People prefer to just be able to run/install something, without having to go around installing other things as well... Getting away from VB is always a good call.. I did VB for the past 2 years, now I'm C++-ing.
Seeing as I'm not even half way through that pdf, I can't do GUI's yet (:(), though, if I can translate the http scraping and whatnot code, then someone else could do that bit..
Open Source means other people can take the code and do what they like with it, and it's also a community effort, so many people can contribute.. For example, Oliver can go for the main code, the Windows bits, and then I can translate some code into C++, and some other person could go in and get my adaptation of Oliver's code into a GUI.

2009/10/15 Joe Developer <joe.d.d...@gmail.com>

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Again,

I see your point Sam.

The only problem is I can't code in C++, and the plans that I have for this application would go well beyond the capability of me learning within a few days.

Also it would mean I would not be able to Bug Fix my own application for a while and would have to rely on others doing it for me which could be pretty dangerous.

I don't mind you creating a C++ version of my App, at the moment I am creating a new GUI interface for the Application.

I will not be able to help you create the C++ version, since I am going to have to start learning C++ real fast.

I am going to put up some Future designs for the application including an example Preview of the applications dialog window in the wave : https://wave.google.com/wave/?pli=1#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252BbTKibG6gA.2 .

Anyway, I will put up the current source of the application within the next couple of hours.

I wouldn't mind this all being done in C++, but I have to be careful I start going into something I can't do. I don't want to ruin myself.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[Oliver Baker]

Thats all very good, however I have to make sure I find people that I know will not suddenly ditch the application halfway through, leaving me dead in the water. (I am not saying that you would do it, its happened to me before)

I suppose we can move into C++, but we are going to have to find somebody who can program the GUI's for C++ Applications.

I will put up all the current plans for this application on the Specified Wave and we can start figuring out who's gonna do what.

It will be interesting to see how this all progresses.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[Joe Developer]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:20 AM, Oliver Baker <ocb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thats all very good, however I have to make sure I find people that I know will not suddenly ditch the application halfway through, leaving me dead in the water. (I am not saying that you would do it, its happened to me before)

Experience can never be taken from you.  

I suppose we can move into C++, but we are going to have to find somebody who can program the GUI's for C++ Applications.

I don't know why anyone would code the gui in C++ I think you would find the gui more portable and easier to manage using something like gtk+ and whatever makes sense for the 'backend' be it c++ or python or * http://www.gtk.org/screenshots.html

 

I will put up all the current plans for this application on the Specified Wave and we can start figuring out who's gonna do what.

It strikes me as very likely that the linux/mac version will be a small shell script that gets called from something like conky now and then. 

[Oliver Baker]

The Source of Version 2 has been uploaded to Google Code, remember that I rushed this a little and the code is very scruffy (readable) since I really wasn't expecting to get this much support for the project.

If this is going to be coded now in C++ this has been put on hold.

(There is a slightly more cleaner version of the code with less bugs but I wanted to put up the code used in the latest version thats been released.)

Don't complain about this programs source, If I was to release this in vb.net with the API when it comes out this would be re - written to proper standards.

Thanks,

Oliver Baker

[Sam Osborne]

Ok... Well you could use wxWidgets to do the GUI for C++, instead of something like GTK.. It may mean learning a new thing on top of C++, but then you won't need some GUI maker thingy for every OS.. Linux just needs to install wxWidgets, not sure about Mac, but Windows works fine.

Ok.. I'll have a look at the code.. Same link as before?

All my code was (and some still is) pretty scruffy.. It can't be that bad!

Seeing as I'm TRYING (I may fail :( ) to translate the code almost directly, it may be pretty simple to find out which code means what, espcecially if (once I've translated it all) if I match the line numbers up.
For example:
VB.net code:
Line 1: msgbox("Hello")
C++ code:
Line 1: cout << "Hello";
Alternate C++ Code (there's another bit of code that does exactly the same thing
Line 1: printf("Hello");

Although you may not be able to compile it, you can sure Test For Bugs, rather than Bug Fix, and then just tell us some bugs.. If you're working your way through the simple stuff in that pdf, you may even be able to fix some of them..

2009/10/15 Oliver Baker <ocb...@gmail.com>

[Joe Developer]

From browsing the code it seems like a straight translation is unlikely to work all that well.. It seems like the vb code uses an embedded webbrowser to handle the handshaking with the wave site. 

[Sam Osborne]

Ouch. Wait, if it IS an embedded browser, and if it was made (which is likely) in Visual Studio, it's an embedded IE.... Which is very bad...

2009/10/16 Joe Developer <joe.d.d...@gmail.com>

[Sam Osborne]

Oh and can you put the source on there in a different format? Linux (which I'm primarily on) can't read rars....

2009/10/16 Sam Osborne <sam.to...@googlemail.com>

[Joe Developer]

rar x file.rar works fine here(Debian), you may want to install `unrar` from your package management system. 

Have a look at 'Form1.vb' : 
wbLogin.ReadyState = WebBrowserReadyState.Complete

I wanted to attach the source in tar.gz format, but intriguingly gmail tells me that it cannot be sent as it contains an executable. 

[Oliver Baker]

Hi,

yes its an embedded webbrowser since I have found no other method that works with MIT's Proxy (New Zealand MIT).

[Sam Osborne]

Ok.. Embedded web browser.. I like the idea, though it's almost definitely IE... Which I don't like..

I'll have a look at finding unrar.. I'm on ubuntu :)

2009/10/16 Oliver Baker <ocb...@gmail.com>

[Chris Bailey]

sorry for not being able to reply before. <_< not sure why it wouldn't let me. but Oliver if you focus on just making a GUI even if it's in a different language and make the actual getting of Wave data into it's own "core" that can be replaced in the future you should be fine with leaving it as is until Google releases an API

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Chris,

I Know, but you guys want me to stop doing it in VB.net.

If you go to https://wave.google.com/wave/#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252BbTKibG6gA and look at the Dialog design Picture I am already designing a User Interface in VB.NET. I am actually going to put up all my sketches there as well.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[Smola]

Hello all,

Oliver, I don't see how Sam's translating has anything to do with your
progress developing your app. You go on your merry way developing
your Windows app as your original intent implies. And if Sam chooses
to try and translate, then way to go for him. Whether he finishes it
or not or has a different GUI has no bearing on your own personal
progress on the app. If I were you I'd continue as if you'd never
heard Sam's original message and if he comes up with a translation you
can make decisions then.

VB was one of my first languages too! ;D I know it's pretty easy, but
if you know basic logic it's not a HUGE leap to go from language to
language. As you expand your curiosities I think you'll find that you
may even prefer a different language. I started out in software
design but found that I preferred web development instead.

Good luck on your app!

On Oct 16, 7:57 am, Chris Bailey <xcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sorry for not being able to reply before. <_< not sure why it wouldn't let
> me. but Oliver if you focus on just making a GUI even if it's in a different
> language and make the actual getting of Wave data into it's own "core" that
> can be replaced in the future you should be fine with leaving it as is until
> Google releases an API
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > yes its an embedded webbrowser since I have found no other method that
> > works with MIT's Proxy (New Zealand MIT).
>

> > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Joe Developer <joe.d.develo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> rar x file.rar works fine here(Debian), you may want to install `unrar`
> >> from your package management system.
> >> Have a look at 'Form1.vb' :
> >> wbLogin.ReadyState = WebBrowserReadyState.Complete
>
> >> I wanted to attach the source in tar.gz format, but intriguingly gmail
> >> tells me that it cannot be sent as it contains an executable.
>

> >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Sam Osborne <sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com

> >> > wrote:
>
> >>> Oh and can you put the source on there in a different format? Linux
> >>> (which I'm primarily on) can't read rars....
>

> >>> 2009/10/16 Sam Osborne <sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com>

>
> >>> Ouch. Wait, if it IS an embedded browser, and if it was made (which is
> >>>> likely) in Visual Studio, it's an embedded IE.... Which is very bad...
>

> >>>> 2009/10/16 Joe Developer <joe.d.develo...@gmail.com>

> >>>>>> 2009/10/15 Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com>

>
> >>>>>> The Source of Version 2 has been uploaded to Google Code, remember
> >>>>>>> that I rushed this a little and the code is very scruffy (readable) since I
> >>>>>>> really wasn't expecting to get this much support for the project.
> >>>>>>> If this is going to be coded now in C++ this has been put on hold.
>
> >>>>>>> (There is a slightly more cleaner version of the code with less bugs
> >>>>>>> but I wanted to put up the code used in the latest version thats been
> >>>>>>> released.)
>
> >>>>>>> Don't complain about this programs source, If I was to release this
> >>>>>>> in vb.net with the API when it comes out this would be re - written
> >>>>>>> to proper standards.
>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Oliver Baker
>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Joe Developer <

> >>>>>>> joe.d.develo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Smloa,

I could debug a C++ app right now even though I don't know how to code in C++. I am currently studying a Bachelor of Information Systems in New Zealand, and it is my intentions to come and work for Google as a Programmer when I leave MIT (New Zealand). I am only 17 so I have a little while to go yet, however I still need to have 3 years experience programming and one of the languages you need to know for Google is C++ (or C, forgot which). And since people want me to code in C++ I think that it would be in my best interests to do so as well, it would give me my best opportunity given my learning style to learn C++.

I don't disagree with you, I think I will continue to code in VB.NET and then maybe work on the C++ with Sam in my spare time. But I don't think I would ignore Sam though.

At the moment I can Code VB.net, some C#, HTML, Javascript, JAVA. but I need to know a whole heap more. and I don't learn from books, I learn from doing it. So Sam has unknowingly given me the best opportunity to learn how to code in C++.

I will continue to code in VB.NET.

Thanks,

Oliver

[Sam Osborne]

Oh thank you :P
VB was my first language too, until I installed Linux on a dual boot, and then I tried to run my app, with WINE (a program you put on Linux to allow it to launch .exe files) and I couldn't. Then, I asked a friend to try it on his Mac, same result. This and a few other things made me switch to C++ (which was popular a year ago with a load of my friends).

I've only got 3 languages under my belt, C++, VB.net and HTML, so you're doing pretty well for yourself!

2009/10/16 Oliver Baker <ocb...@gmail.com>

[Joe Developer]

Hi Oliver,

its great to hear how keen you are. 

There are a lot of languages out there and finding out which ones are right for a given task is half the battle :)

While there is a propensity for knee-jerk scoffing at VB, the reason that I personally thought it inappropriate is that it is inexorably bound to the Windows platform(mono and wine notwithstanding). 

You will probably find that a good percentage of people here are either on variants of BSD or Linux. It would be interesting to have a show of hands just for kicks.   

If I were you I would exploit your relative neuronal plasticity and apply it to picking up some different languages. Check out a functional programming language like fx Erlang. Some 'rapid development' languages like say python or ruby. Perhaps even a multiparadigm language like Ada (which could use a json lib btw ;) )

You will have plenty of time later to apply the paradigms and inspiration you pick up at making the killer services of the future. 17 isn't exactly 12 ;) Spend your time wisely.    

While learning by doing is a great way to keep the energy and enthusiasm up, it also tends to lock you in, if nothing else, do read about software patterns. Reinventing the wheel may lead to better wheels, but in all likelihood we would benefit more from improved drive-trains.

Anyway, good going with the Inbox Notification tool :) Happy Hacking. 

.  

[Oliver Baker]

If I was 12, and knew what I knew. I would be dead from having such a non-existent life. I already need to get one as it is, I am either programming or playing Xbox online with friends.

Thanks for the tips and I will defiantly look into all those programming languages (My most important ones at the moment though are ones that will get me a job at the one company bigger than microsoft (its Google). 

Thanks,

Oliver

[Andrew Red]

@Oliver,

Could you (or someone else) post the design photos on the wavesandbox? (I don't have a preview account :(  )

Thx
Andrew

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Andrew,

Here is the link to the WaveSandbox one.

(You really should consult with the Google Team about why you don't have a preview account if you have a sandbox account) unless of course you are cheating the system.

https://wave.google.com/a/wavesandbox.com/#restored:wave:wavesandbox.com!w%252BG0TCUy7kA

Have fun,

Oliver Baker

[Oliver Baker]

Hi All,

The Context menu preview has been uploaded to Google Code: Here

Please Note a few things first:

• The Black borders around the context menu is just a place holder for the actual border which will be added later
• This preview is only to show you some of the basic functionality
• Any of the looks may change, any suggestions can be posted here, On Google Wave or on Google Code.
• The folder in the zip must stay in-tact for everything to work, the Context menu app is the one with the context menu in, Windows Application 2 is the most recent build of the custom dialog
• At the moment the context menu is a control in a form which inherits my custom dialog, the real thing will look like it is expected to, it is in a form in the preview because its a preview.
• NO CODE HAS BEEN PROVIDED YET: Its not finished, I am trialling some stuff and I don't want people yappin in my ear about why the code here, here and here should be done like, this or like that. when the context menu is near completion I will then upload the code for you guys to scold me about.
• Once again, suggestions are welcome, the menu is not finished remember.

Other than that, have fun.

I am considering creating a Google Group just for this Project if enough support for the project is provided (suggestions, interested people, stuff like that) which would then be used to create discussion specifically on areas of the project, to lay it out neater.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[Andrew Red]

Hi Oliver,

I'm sorry, but I got board, so I wrote some code to launch a window from the notifaction area.

I posted the code on your wave (https://wave.google.com/a/wavesandbox.com/#restored:wave:wavesandbox.com!w%252BG0TCUy7kA.1)

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Red <andre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice. are you going to add the AnimateWindow function? This allows sliding windows (like gtalk) and it is easy (ish) to use.

I got my sandbox on October 14th, and the previews were sent out on October 1st (i think)...

[Andrew Red]

@joe, was 12 a typo?

I think you meant 21...

18 is the age where the maths in your brain is a maxmin, and it is around 21 for computing and programming.

@Oliver, WHAT!!! at the age of 10 I knew 4 langues well (Quick Basic, Liberty Basic, HTML/javascript and robolab) and I still have a life. Knowing a langue is the easy part of programming. To know how to manipulate logic is something that you can't learn off a book. I like Liberty Basic alot, not because it is a compiler and is slow, but because it is robust and very hard to crash. I am like you, I am 17, very young. I wouldn't recommend you to learn a langue (yet) because of portabilty, or speed, but rather to continue working on a langue that you are familer with, and take that langue to it's limits.

What I am meaning is, last year, I entered a comption called "Robocup Junior Australia (http://www.robocupjunior.org.au/) Preimer Rescue devision". I entered a robot running Liberty Basic to fowlow a line. Now, there are many ways to fowlow a line, Most people you the Lego NXT. I used a webcam, a nural network, wii motes and hand made motor driver assembly. From that I have realy learnt two thins... 1. NEVER ever under any cirstames think that MSDN has the answer to your api calls, 2. Computing is boring and you will never achive something unless you chalange yourself.

Sry everyone for boring you with my past, but I think it needs to be said. I now need to get back to studding for my end of school exams :(

Thx
Andrew

ps. I can't beleave how much time I have wasted on studying for English

pps. Sry for my spelling... It gets bad sometimes.

[Andrew Red]

Nice. are you going to add the AnimateWindow function? This allows sliding windows (like gtalk) and it is easy (ish) to use.

I got my sandbox on October 14th, and the previews were sent out on October 1st (i think)...

[Oliver Baker]

Hi Andrew,

Yes, I saw that.

I haven't tried it yet though.

[Oliver Baker]

Hi All,

PROGRESS UPDATE!

In case you all haven't noticed yet I have uploaded the source of the project to the Google code Project.

I have also been working on this project with a friend and he has been helping me sort out bugs and make improvements.

I have redone the Dialog Base, it looks much much better. I still haven't finished refining it for use in the application, but I will be releasing a download on Google Code called Dialog Base rebuild preview.

All of the controls I have created have now been moved into a Control Library and will be made available for use by the public.

The Context menu is still under development and will hopefully be made available for use within the next week or two (I have a long weekend since its Labour Day Weekend over here so I should be able to get it done soon.

I would love comments and feedback on this project. I do read all the feedback I get. I do take action on almost all the feedback I get (If you start saying my projects crap etc... and I shouldn't do this.... blah blah blah. I will not take much notice.). I do like negative comments though as long as they are constructive.

I an still waiting on the API to be released. When the API is released I will put the project into overdrive if it is not already finished.

When the API does come out, if the design of the project is not finished I will try to quickly release an app which will let you use the API with a basic interface (this is if somebody doesn't beat me to it).

Hope people are still interested.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[Sascha]

To put my two cents in,

I would recommend eclipse + java + swt
for a portable and good performing gui.

Enjoy!


On Oct 15, 10:16 pm, Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Again,
> I see your point Sam.
>
> The only problem is I can't code in C++, and the plans that I have for this
> application would go well beyond the capability of me learning within a few
> days.
>
> Also it would mean I would not be able to Bug Fix my own application for a
> while and would have to rely on others doing it for me which could be pretty
> dangerous.
>
> I don't mind you creating a C++ version of my App, at the moment I am
> creating a new GUI interface for the Application.
> I will not be able to help you create the C++ version, since I am going to
> have to start learning C++ real fast.
>
> I am going to put up some Future designs for the application including an
> example Preview of the applications dialog window in the wave :https://wave.google.com/wave/?pli=1#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%25...
>  .
>
> Anyway, I will put up the current source of the application within the
> next couple of hours.
>
> I wouldn't mind this all being done in C++, but I have to be careful I start
> going into something I can't do. I don't want to ruin myself.
>
> Regards,
> Oliver Baker

>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Sam Osborne <sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com>wrote:
>
> > 1: Ok.
>
> > 2: No, not make my own project based on yours, help you to translate it. If
> > you turn it into C++ (which, if you can't do, I'll try to do) it'll be able
> > to run on Windows, Mac AND Linux.
> > I'd be having a look at the VB code, learn how the parts I'm not sure about
> > work and what their C++ equivalents are.

> > It's simply because of the fact that .net programs cannot be run on Mac or

> > Linux, where some Wave users are. You could TRY getting it to run on AIR,

> > but I'm not sure how that works :S

> > You may want to look at C++ For Dummies<http://samosborneonline.co.cc/Downloads/C++_For_Dummies.pdf>
>
> > 2009/10/15 Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com>
>
> >> Hi Sam,
> >> *Answer to your First Question:*
>
> >> If you read the whole post you will know I have been given permission by
> >> Google to (For This Application only) Breach Condition L of  the Google Wave
> >> Program Policy until the relative API is released by Google.
>
> >> Which means that there is no current API for what I have done.
>
> >> *Answer to your second question.*
>
> >> I am assuming that you want to create your own project based on my source
> >> code???? Seems pretty harsh Sam.
>
> >> The Main part of my application that you probably want to obtain is the
> >> part which obtains the information. When the API comes out, my applications
> >> source to you that you currently want would be near pointless
>
> >> The source will be put up on Google Code soon (Within 2-3 days) since
> >> parts of it have to be re-written. I don't mind you using my source code.
> >> But I am trusting people not to pull a fast one on me.
>
> >> Hope that answers your questions.
>
> >> Regards,
> >> Oliver Baker
>
> >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Sam Osborne <sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com
> >> > wrote:
>
> >>> Ok.. I can interpret VB.net... Ish.. Now I want to know two things:
>
> >>>    - How did you manage to get the APIs from whatever language they're
> >>>    in (Java/Python I think) to VB?
> >>>    - Where's the source? I wanna see if I can get the source, translate
> >>>    it into C++, and then get it to run in Linux..
>
> >>> 2009/10/15 Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com>
>
> >>>> Hi Sam,
> >>>> The Application is made in Visual Basic .net 3.5 (Yes, I am only 17,
> >>>> still studying for a Bachelors and VB is easier than C# and obviously
> >>>> C/C++).
>
> >>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Sam Osborne <
> >>>> sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> What language is it made in?
>
> >>>>> 2009/10/15 Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com>
>
> >>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>> I have good news!!!
>
> >>>>>> Pamela has allowed me to continue developing and displaying my
> >>>>>> application using its current "Scrapping" method until the API comes out.
>
> >>>>>> I have put the Application back on Google Code and will shortly be
> >>>>>> releasing an update which fixes the Proxy Authentication issue.
>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Oliver Baker
>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:38 AM, kim3er <rich...@dogma.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for clearing that up, I was a bit taken back by the use of the
> >>>>>>> word illegal for scraping websites. I suspect that we will start to
> >>>>>>> see the nature of scraping change in the near future as websites
> >>>>>>> become the API. Pages written in valid XHTML/HTML 5 with meaningful
> >>>>>>> naming conventions (like micro formats). I don't think scraping can
> >>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>> a dirty word anymore. But I can understand the need for a company
> >>>>>>> like
> >>>>>>> Google to control where and how the bandwidth is used.
>
> >>>>>>> Rich
>
> >>>>>>> On Oct 14, 4:11 am, "pamela (Google Employee)" <pamela...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> > Sure, good point, let me clarify, though please keep in mind that
> >>>>>>> I'm not a
> >>>>>>> > lawyer...
>
> >>>>>>> > According to the Google Wave terms of use, it is not permitted to
> >>>>>>> "modify,
> >>>>>>> > adapt, translate, or reverse engineer any portion of the Service
> >>>>>>> unless
> >>>>>>> > expressly authorized". In Oliver's prototype, he essentially
> >>>>>>> reverse
> >>>>>>> > engineered the client display mechanism to extract the content. You
> >>>>>>> can read
> >>>>>>> > more of the policies at:
> >>>>>>>http://wave.google.com/help/wave/program_policies.html
>
> >>>>>>> > Once we have an API to let you programmatically extract the content
> >>>>>>> -- which
> >>>>>>> > is something we're working on -- then that API could be used to
> >>>>>>> build this
> >>>>>>> > prototype without having to reverse engineer. Another thing to
> >>>>>>> consider,
> >>>>>>> > more in the wave protocol effort, would be a client/server protocol
> >>>>>>> -- but
> >>>>>>> > things are early there at the moment.
>
> >>>>>>> > - pamela
>
> >>>>>>> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Joe Developer <
> >>>>>>> joe.d.develo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:42 AM, pamela (Google Employee) <
> >>>>>>> > > pamela...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> > >> Hey Oliver-
> >>>>>>> > >> I responded to you offline, but will also respond here to keep
> >>>>>>> the thread
> >>>>>>> > >> in the forum.
>
> >>>>>>> > >> I assumed that was how you were doing this, but wanted to give
> >>>>>>> you a
> >>>>>>> > >> chance to explain. It is generally considered illegal to
> >>>>>>> "scrape" the HTML
> >>>>>>> > >> of webpages that do not grant explicit permission for that. That
> >>>>>>> is why
> >>>>>>> > >> webpages provide APIs- so that developers can legally use
> >>>>>>> content.
>
> >>>>>>> > >> Really? Generally considered illegal? I would appreciate a link
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> > > documents such a finding. I would imagine that google search
> >>>>>>> results would
> >>>>>>> > > be fairly sparsely populated if they could only include those
> >>>>>>> pages that
> >>>>>>> > > include explicit permission for google to scrape.
>
> >>>>>>> > > I would advise on waiting until we offer some sort of Google data
> >>>>>>> API to
> >>>>>>> > >> distribute a program like this.
>
> >>>>>>> > >> - pamela
>
> >>>>>>> > >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Oliver Baker <
> >>>>>>> ocba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> How dare you Andrey!
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> I do not store any of your information what so ever excluding
> >>>>>>> the last
> >>>>>>> > >>> Wave server you selected.
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> Any Login information you enter is immediatly put into the
> >>>>>>> Google Wave
> >>>>>>> > >>> Login page to log the application into the Google Wave login
> >>>>>>> page.
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> To enter your login details on Version 2 (Sorry I made this a
> >>>>>>> little
> >>>>>>> > >>> stupidly) you will need to left click on the Notify Icon or
> >>>>>>> right
> >>>>>>> > >>> click the icon, go into the Waves item, then click the login to
> >>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>> > >>> your waves button.
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> Also, make sure you have Google Chrome Frame installed on your
> >>>>>>> > >>> computer for this to work. I am still working out the bugs.
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> On Oct 14, 10:07 am, Andrey Fedorov <anfedo...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> > >>> > Uhoh, I hope you guys are at least running antivirus as you
> >>>>>>> run exe's
> >>>>>>> > >>> you
> >>>>>>> > >>> > downloaded online?
> >>>>>>> > >>> > - Andrey
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Scott Breakall <
> >>>>>>> break...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> > >>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > I've downloaded the exe, but am I missing something?
> >>>>>>> There's nowhere
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > for me to enter my wave credentials?
>
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > ~Scott~

[Eric Dorman]

Hey Oliver,

Did you use the Embed API to make this with it?

This is a great idea.

Thanks & God Bless,
Eric

[Sam Osborne]

I'm on Windows so shall be trying it out over the weekend.. 

2009/10/23 Eric Dorman <dorm...@gmail.com>

[Karim Yaghmour]

Not sure if it had been suggested, but FWIW C# would be a good
candidate.
It's not too far from VB and Mono works on Mac and Linux alike.

HTH,

Karim Yaghmour

On Oct 15, 4:16 pm, Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Again,
> I see your point Sam.
>
> The only problem is I can't code in C++, and the plans that I have for this
> application would go well beyond the capability of me learning within a few
> days.
>
> Also it would mean I would not be able to Bug Fix my own application for a
> while and would have to rely on others doing it for me which could be pretty
> dangerous.
>
> I don't mind you creating a C++ version of my App, at the moment I am
> creating a new GUI interface for the Application.
> I will not be able to help you create the C++ version, since I am going to
> have to start learning C++ real fast.
>
> I am going to put up some Future designs for the application including an
> example Preview of the applications dialog window in the wave :https://wave.google.com/wave/?pli=1#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%25...
>  .
>
> Anyway, I will put up the current source of the application within the
> next couple of hours.
>
> I wouldn't mind this all being done in C++, but I have to be careful I start
> going into something I can't do. I don't want to ruin myself.
>

> Regards,
> Oliver Baker

[olemis]

On Oct 15, 1:56 pm, Sam Osborne <sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Ok.. I can interpret VB.net... Ish.. Now I want to know two things:
>
>    - How did you manage to get the APIs from whatever language they're in
>    (Java/Python I think) to VB?
>    - Where's the source? I wanna see if I can get the source, translate it
>    into C++, and then get it to run in Linux..
>
> 2009/10/15 Oliver Baker <ocba...@gmail.com>
>
> > Hi Sam,
> > The Application is made in Visual Basic .net 3.5 (Yes, I am only 17, still
> > studying for a Bachelors and VB is easier than C# and obviously C/C++).
>

Did anybody mentioned Python ? It's multi-platform, powerful, easy
and ... you're gonna love it !

;o)

--
Regards,

Olemis.

Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/
Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/

Featured article:
Gasol-ina para España - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/c6MtwvrQ92s/gasol-ina-para-espana.html

[Sam Osborne]

Afternoon! Just thought I'd jump in and say the following:

I opened the app up for the first time this evening.. Not sure what's actually supposed to be happening, but I like the native feel of the bubble that says signed in. I cleared up my wave inbox earlier today (read EVERYTHING new) and, to my understanding, the app will update once I get a new message? Until then, it looks pretty good.. the systray icon may need some changing, maybe make it transparent? Looks a bit odd on my taskbar.. Just my thoughts..

So far, it seems to be doing the job rather well! Though maybe an icon on the executable... Just a thought, I like the look of things (which is why I lurve Ubuntu).

2009/10/23 olemis <ole...@gmail.com>

[Tobias]

Nice one.

A desktop notifier is essential for any messaging system.
Some small sugestions of further development:
Highlighting of the deskbar icon when there're new waves would be
really nice.
A possibility to force a recheck of the wave account.


An other thing:
How do one opens a google wave link: eg:
https://wave.google.com/wave/#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252BbTKibG6gA.1
When I open it, I just go to my wave inbox, with no new wave added.

[Sam Osborne]

May be if you're not a participant...

2009/10/26 Tobias <tobias.b...@gmail.com>

[Felipe Fernandes]

It is possible build an adobe air application for do this?

abs

Felipe Fernandes | WebDesigner
www.happyfish.com.br
@felipefernandes (twitter)
--

[Sam Osborne]

That's not a bad idea.. Though I'm not sure what language AIR is...

2009/10/27 Felipe Fernandes <rip...@gmail.com>

[pamela (Google Employee)]

The AIR technology can be used with JavaScript or ActionScript3. It is commonly used with the latter because of it's association with Flex development, however. The most popular app written using AIR is TweetDeck. AIR lets you create desktop-like apps which can do offline storage, notification, etc. One could also use the Gears plugin or HTML5 to accomplish desktop-like functionality within a webapp.

- pamela

[Tobias]

I thought it was a public wave, which you could join by following the
link.
But if I underderstand you correct, Sam, one need to be af participant
already.

Is there a way which one easily can join these waves?
Just wondering, because i've seen these links several places, where it
seems to have the funktion of a forum-like wave.

On Oct 27, 10:08 am, Sam Osborne <sam.tosbo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> May be if you're not a participant...
>

> 2009/10/26 Tobias <tobias.bertel...@gmail.com>

>
>
>
>
>
> > Nice one.
>
> > A desktop notifier is essential for any messaging system.
> > Some small sugestions of further development:
> > Highlighting of the deskbar icon when there're new waves would be
> > really nice.
> > A possibility to force a recheck of the wave account.
>
> > An other thing:
> > How do one opens a google wave link: eg:
>

> >https://wave.google.com/wave/#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252BbTKi...<https://wave.google.com/wave/#restored:wave:googlewave.com%21w%252BbT...>
> > When I open it, I just go to my wave inbox, with no new wave added.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Oliver Baker]

Hi All,

The link in the quoted text above me for the Wave Post is wrong, the link is https://wave.google.com/wave/#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252BbTKibG6gA

Please be aware that the program is being redesigned completely (the user interface), and new messages received will be displayed in a quick popup like in Microsoft Outlook, as Windows 7 is effectively phasing out the Notify Section and Notify Icons are now being hidden a lot more. The link above will explain some of my ideas for this project.

As I have said before, the version of this program that currently checks Waves does not use Google's API, as far as I am aware Google Wave does not have an API for what this program does, however, as soon as an API is released this program will use the API provided and the current method used will not be used.

I love suggestions people make, I am more likely though to have suggestions kept if they are posted on the Google Wave (the link provided), as with more replies suggestions can be quickly lost in the discussion.

Other Notes:

I am well aware many people would love me to code this application in many different languages, however I will be creating this application in VB.net. When the application is finished I may consider re-writing this application in a different language. However, any of you are welcome to re-write my application in any language you desire, the code is available on The Google Code Project.

We are currently playing around with the design of the user interface, and I will be uploading some sketches of design ideas onto this projects wave. If the Google Wave API needed is released before the design is finished an application will be written up to use the API while the User Interface part is finished.

IMPORTANT NOTES ABOUT THE CURRENT RELEASE:

The current release does not accept proxies, I will not be including proxy support until the API is released by Google. (Sorry).

Sometimes the Application decides it will not connect to a Wave server, Please make sure that Google Chrome Frame is installed onto Internet Explorer. If you do have Google Chrome Frame installed and the app still doesn't work you can always try adding wave.google.com to internet explorers Safe Sites list (I do not recommend this though). ALSO, don't forget to right click on the Notify Icon, go to your waves list and click the login button if it is available, If this button is not available and you can't view your waves your out of luck sorry until the API is released.

Regards,

Oliver Baker

[Sres]

I assume this project is dead?