Google Buzz replaces Wave?

[Daniel França]

I was watching the video introducing Google Buzz

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/introducing-google-buzz.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/MKuf+(Official+Google+Blog)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

It has some Wave like features, doesn't?  It looks like if the recent low entusiasm about Wave can migrate efforts to this new tool? Or am I completely wrong?

[Ikai L (Google)]

The Buzz API, if you are interested, is here:

http://code.google.com/apis/buzz/

As they mentioned in the video, this isn't a replacement for Wave (and I won't stop using Wave because of it). They're totally different things, though we're always thinking about ways to better integrate all of our products for a rich user experience.

2010/2/9 Daniel França <daniel...@gmail.com>

I was watching the video introducing Google Buzz

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/introducing-google-buzz.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/MKuf+(Official+Google+Blog)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

It has some Wave like features, doesn't?  It looks like if the recent low entusiasm about Wave can migrate efforts to this new tool? Or am I completely wrong?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Wave API" group.
To post to this group, send email to google-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-wave-a...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.

--
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com | http://twitter.com/app_engine

[Daniel França]

Would be possible create gadgets to Buzz in the same way?

One tihng that I saw some people complain about Wave is that it's not integrate to Gmail, and this should be possible in Buzz, there's some plans about that for Wave?

[eyalzh]

IMHO, it targets twitter. Not wave.
It will be nice to see gadgets on wave that display public buzz feeds, though.

2010/2/9 Daniel França <daniel...@gmail.com>

[dougx]

I very _very_ much doubt that buzz is going to free-as-in-beer the
same way wave promises to be.

That's a pretty major difference.

There are a few things there that look a bit familiar though, for
example:
http://code.google.com/apis/buzz/documentation/#coming-soon
"Over the next several months Google Buzz will introduce an API for
developers, including full/read write support for posts with the Atom
Publishing Protocol, rich activity notification with Activity Streams,
delegated authorization with OAuth, federated comments and activities
with Salmon, distributed profile and contact information with
WebFinger, and much, much more."

...but if you look at the details, it's not really very wave-like;
certainly I don't see anything about conflict resolution for
collaborative editing; it's just a comment sharing tool.

~
Doug.

On Feb 10, 3:33 am, Daniel França <daniel.fra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was watching the video introducing Google Buzzhttp://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/introducing-google-buzz.html?u...

[Jonas Huckestein]

I think Wave and Buzz are completely different things. The wave hype
has worn off because it is a development version and most people don't
understand that.

It is my impression that Wave targets email and in particular
enterprise platforms such as MS exchange/sharepoint.

Buzz on the other hand is going for twitter/facebook.

Just my $0.02

Cheers, Jonas

[Raphaël Pinson]

I try to keep in mind that Wave is first and foremost a protocol, while Buzz is a social media plugin for Gmail (or so it seems). 

I believe the Wave protocol could well be the backbone for Buzz actually, so it's not a matter of Wave vs. Buzz (as in, the interface, which doesn't really matter so much in Wave).

Raphaël

[kayode odeyemi]

IMHO, I think it's just an extension to Gmail. An option to make Gmail better and have some social interaction integration. 

Wave is a different project on it's own. But I support the opinion about integrating Gmail into Wave. Reason is because there's hardly no conversation without email these days.

2010/2/10 Raphaël Pinson <rap...@gmail.com>

--
Odeyemi 'Kayode O.

Application Developer & Systems Engineer (Sun Certified Professional),
Drupal Developer

Tel: +2348053063373
P.O.Box 682, Ita-elewa, Ikorodu,
Lagos, Nigeria, West-Africa.

Website: http://www.sinati.com
Socialize with me: http://profile.to/charyorde, http://twitter.com/charyorde

[Ronald C.F. Antony]

On 10 Feb 2010, at 06:50, kayode odeyemi wrote:

> But I support the opinion about integrating Gmail into Wave. Reason is because there's hardly no conversation without email these days.

There are a few things that need to be done. As fascinating as Wave is, it will have an adoption struggle because other means of communications are well entrenched, and benefit from the network effect. In other words, Google Wave suffers the same challenge as if someone came with another desktop OS, which between the established Windows and Mac, plus the free Linux, is a hard sell.

Also, Wave is not yet mature enough. There are some glaring gaps in dealing with controlling access to data (Encryption!!!), and with the ability to delete data (reference counting GC sort of thing). Once these are solved Wave as a protocol can be considered "done", and it must be frozen at that point (imagine SMTP or http constantly changing...)

The next step is getting an e-mail gateway working. Since E-mail is static, this is non-trivial, but it's key to allow an absorption of e-mail into wave. It would be foolish to try to solve this in a general way. I think e-mail works fine for message-reply or chat-style wave interactions. The gateway should recognize these and send/import e-mails as such. Anything beyond that should simply be turned into an e-mail message that points to a URL that allows the recipient to view the wave on some web browser. Going much beyond that would both complicate things too much and also remove too many incentives for people actually dumping e-mail as we know it and moving to Wave.

A further step, when it comes to replacing IM clients, is that VoIP, is integrated. Voice and video conferences, with the option to capture these and embed them in the wave as sound or movie clips.

Least but not last have to be fool proof wave servers that are close to point and click installs, such that federation can meaningfully work. There need to be "just works" type servers for (barf) Windows, Mac OS X Server, Linux and BSD. People want to be in control of their data, and with e-mail they are, if they run their own mail server.

This list here is basically a collection of why despite the fact that I sent out dozens of Wave invites to friends, the Wave account is close to unused. No ability to delete and/or encrypt waves is near the top, people just don't want to have every goof-up permanently recorded in the history books or open to snoops of all sorts. The recent cyber attacks on Google should be more than ample to underline the importance of encryption.

The lack of e-mail and IM integration is a second issue, because most people have ONE mode of communication. There are the IM types, who hardly ever send an e-mail, and there are the e-mail types, who hardly ever touch IM. None of then wants "yet another app" to deal with, but they might consider SWITCHING to Wave, provided it allows them to continue what they are currently used to doing and doesn't involve the effort to try to convert all their conversation partners to move to a new platform first. (Chicken & Egg network effect thing...)

And lastly, people like me, have a distaste for the sort of cloud computing where critical data is held hostage, I have my own computing infrastructure, thank you, and if the internet goes down, I still have access to my data, and that's the way it should be; which means until 100% fully featured Wave servers can't be installed on my own computers (incl. web interface and all) and federation works in large scale deployments, Wave will remain a toy and a cool technology demonstration, but I'll avoid it for real work, and stick to e-mail and IM, where I'm master over my information storage.

Ronald

[Brian May]

On 11 February 2010 03:38, Ronald C.F. Antony <ronald...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The next step is getting an e-mail gateway working. Since E-mail is static, this is non-trivial, but it's key to allow an absorption of e-mail into wave. It would be foolish to try to solve this in a general way. I think e-mail works fine for message-reply or chat-style wave interactions. The gateway should recognize these and send/import e-mails as such. Anything beyond that should simply be turned into an e-mail message that points to a URL that allows the recipient to view the wave on some web browser. Going much beyond that would both complicate things too much and also remove too many incentives for people actually dumping e-mail as we know it and moving to Wave.

At the LCA2010 Wave mini-conference I seem to remember someone saying
Google tried to get an e-mail gateway working, but encountered some
very difficult problems. If they continued the way they were going,
Wave would become just a clone of email. As such the project was put
on hold. I don't know what these issues were, or if they can be
solved.

> The lack of e-mail and IM integration is a second issue, because most people have ONE mode of communication. There are the IM types, who hardly ever send an e-mail, and there are the e-mail types, who hardly ever touch IM. None of then wants "yet another app" to deal with, but they might consider SWITCHING to Wave, provided it allows them to continue what they are currently used to doing and doesn't involve the effort to try to convert all their conversation partners to move to a new platform first. (Chicken & Egg network effect thing...)

The #1 big problem I have wave, is that there end up being so many
different windows I need to open to check different things, and at the
moment Wave isn't assisting, it is making matters worse. Maybe in the
future this could change. e.g. right now if I remember I should be
checking the following on a regular basis:

* home email
* work email
* gmail email
* twitter
* Wave sandbox
* Wave preview
* reader.google.com
* calendar
* request tracker at work
* jabber (I tend to miss incoming messages and not having a speaker
doesn't help)
* etc - I am sure I missed something here...

Some of these things do need to be kept separated, e.g. home
email/work email, but I think there is room for improvement.

> And lastly, people like me, have a distaste for the sort of cloud computing where critical data is held hostage, I have my own computing infrastructure, thank you, and if the internet goes down, I still have access to my data, and that's the way it should be; which means until 100% fully featured Wave servers can't be installed on my own computers (incl. web interface and all) and federation works in large scale deployments, Wave will remain a toy and a cool technology demonstration, but I'll avoid it for real work, and stick to e-mail and IM, where I'm master over my information storage.

There needs to be a way to backup waves and continue using them
read/write if the server goes down. Or if you have a disagreement with
the hosting company for any reason.

Similarly it should be possible to create federated servers that don't
require a massive hardware budget in case the wave proves to be more
popular then expected. At the moment my understanding is that the
hosting server has a high workload for every client connected, and it
isn't possible to offload this workload to another more capable
server.
--
Brian May <br...@microcomaustralia.com.au>

[Carol Haney]

I agree - email and wave should be one service.  It is a misstep to keep them separate.

Carol Sue Haney

[Eric Kolotyluk]

Yes, I second that. My preference would be that a future version of Thunderbird has wave support and would just handle wave accounts as easily as it handles IMAP accounts.

Cheers, Eric

[Chris]

Since every protocol needs an acronym, umm... WAVE's Acronym is Very Empty.  (At least it doesn't lie like "XNA is Not an Acronym.")

But seriously... I too look forward to Wave being mainstream, although I think that'll be a very future version of Thunderbird.

In ALL things, strive for ><>,
Chris

[Jonas Huckestein]

I think apart from the difficult problems (all problems can be
solved!), Google did not want to have spam in wave because the spam
would reflect badly on their service.

I also see a future in which all of the services Brian mentioned are
in one interface. But that interface will most likely be a webapp in
the cloud.

Cheers, Jonas

On Feb 11, 6:22 pm, Chris <jesdisci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since every protocol needs an acronym, umm... WAVE's Acronym is Very Empty.
> (At least it doesn't lie like "XNA is Not an Acronym.")
>
> But seriously... I too look forward to Wave being mainstream, although I

> think that'll be a *very* future version of Thunderbird.

>
> In ALL things, strive for ><>,
> Chris
>

> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Eric Kolotyluk <eric.koloty...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >  Yes, I second that. My preference would be that a future version of
> > Thunderbird has wave support and would just handle wave accounts as easily
> > as it handles IMAP accounts.
>
> > Cheers, Eric
>
> > On 2010-02-10 7:13 AM, Carol Haney wrote:
>
> > I agree - email and wave should be one service.  It is a misstep to keep
> > them separate.
>

> > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:50 AM, kayode odeyemi <drey...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> IMHO, I think it's just an extension to Gmail. An option to make Gmail
> >> better and have some social interaction integration.
>
> >>  Wave is a different project on it's own. But I support the opinion about
> >> integrating Gmail into Wave. Reason is because there's hardly no
> >> conversation without email these days.
>

> >> 2010/2/10 Raphaël Pinson <raph...@gmail.com>

> >>>> google-wave-a...@googlegroups.com<google-wave-api%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> >>>> .
> >>>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
> >>>  --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >>> "Google Wave API" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to google-...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >>> google-wave-a...@googlegroups.com<google-wave-api%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> >>> .
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >> Odeyemi 'Kayode O.
>
> >> Application Developer & Systems Engineer (Sun Certified Professional),
> >> Drupal Developer
>
> >> Tel: +2348053063373
> >> P.O.Box 682, Ita-elewa, Ikorodu,
> >> Lagos, Nigeria, West-Africa.
>
> >> Website:http://www.sinati.com
> >> Socialize with me:http://profile.to/charyorde,
> >>http://twitter.com/charyorde
>
> >>  --
> >>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "Google Wave API" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to google-...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >> google-wave-a...@googlegroups.com<google-wave-api%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Carol Sue Haney
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google Wave API" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-wave-a...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google Wave API" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > google-wave-a...@googlegroups.com<google-wave-api%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>