classroom use
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Loren
Jun 6, 2009, 9:41:32 AM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
In college we used to compile class notes before finals into a master
copy that everyone in the class had access to.
My thought is to see the day when a published aspect of the wave is
projected behind the professor as an organic, collaborative white-
board.
Wave could be used to simultaneously create/publish class notes during
the class, replete with images (i.e. pictures of world leaders, .pdf
files of readings, etcetera).
I would like people to begin thinking about gadgets which could be
useful in a classroom collaborative note-taking setting.
-Loren
copy that everyone in the class had access to.
My thought is to see the day when a published aspect of the wave is
projected behind the professor as an organic, collaborative white-
board.
Wave could be used to simultaneously create/publish class notes during
the class, replete with images (i.e. pictures of world leaders, .pdf
files of readings, etcetera).
I would like people to begin thinking about gadgets which could be
useful in a classroom collaborative note-taking setting.
-Loren
bjoern
Jun 6, 2009, 9:57:51 AM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
Loren
Jun 6, 2009, 10:09:30 AM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
yes this is excellent!
On Jun 6, 9:57 am, bjoern <klose.bjo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Something like this?http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_one_teacher_uses_twitter_in_...
On Jun 6, 9:57 am, bjoern <klose.bjo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Something like this?http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_one_teacher_uses_twitter_in_...
Jack Park
Jun 6, 2009, 10:35:13 AM6/6/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
It is excellent. A kindred approach would be to create graph
structures of dialogues, along the lines of IBIS dialogues (e.g. [1]
or [2]), or even topic maps of the course. These can be created by
students along the way or as assigned exercises. Using IbIS, a teacher
poses an issue (question) and students do the research necessary to
take positions (answers) then proceed to debate their positions.
Jack
[1] http://compendium.open.ac.uk/
[2] http://cohere.open.ac.uk/
structures of dialogues, along the lines of IBIS dialogues (e.g. [1]
or [2]), or even topic maps of the course. These can be created by
students along the way or as assigned exercises. Using IbIS, a teacher
poses an issue (question) and students do the research necessary to
take positions (answers) then proceed to debate their positions.
Jack
[1] http://compendium.open.ac.uk/
[2] http://cohere.open.ac.uk/
Loren
Jun 6, 2009, 12:34:03 PM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
Cohere is an interesting concept, I especially like its visual
structure.
Perhaps there could be a robot, similar to 'bloggy,' which could be
present in the wave and publish concepts in the in a visual structure
which would be an expression of the connection language used.
The cohere video shows that they have a connection language which you
input when responding to an idea. It seems that you tag the idea (i.e.
possible solution, piece of evidence, or prediction), and then the
program can display the concepts and their relationship visually in a
concept or argument map.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBS03VoWWAA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcohere%2Eopen%2Eac%2Euk%2F&feature=player_embedded
On Jun 6, 10:35 am, Jack Park <jackp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is excellent. A kindred approach would be to create graph
> structures of dialogues, along the lines of IBIS dialogues (e.g. [1]
> or [2]), or even topic maps of the course. These can be created by
> students along the way or as assigned exercises. Using IbIS, a teacher
> poses an issue (question) and students do the research necessary to
> take positions (answers) then proceed to debate their positions.
>
> Jack
> [1]http://compendium.open.ac.uk/
> [2]http://cohere.open.ac.uk/
>
structure.
Perhaps there could be a robot, similar to 'bloggy,' which could be
present in the wave and publish concepts in the in a visual structure
which would be an expression of the connection language used.
The cohere video shows that they have a connection language which you
input when responding to an idea. It seems that you tag the idea (i.e.
possible solution, piece of evidence, or prediction), and then the
program can display the concepts and their relationship visually in a
concept or argument map.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBS03VoWWAA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcohere%2Eopen%2Eac%2Euk%2F&feature=player_embedded
On Jun 6, 10:35 am, Jack Park <jackp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is excellent. A kindred approach would be to create graph
> structures of dialogues, along the lines of IBIS dialogues (e.g. [1]
> or [2]), or even topic maps of the course. These can be created by
> students along the way or as assigned exercises. Using IbIS, a teacher
> poses an issue (question) and students do the research necessary to
> take positions (answers) then proceed to debate their positions.
>
> Jack
> [1]http://compendium.open.ac.uk/
> [2]http://cohere.open.ac.uk/
>
Loren
Jun 6, 2009, 12:38:45 PM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
There are many benefits which this course has gotten from using
twitter in class by projecting a giant image of live tweets, and
following up to build course continuity.
[] Overcoming public speaking inhibition -- Allows students to
participate in class via alternative means to speaking in front of the
group. Some people are intimidated by speaking in public. Many are
more capable of expressing a cogent thought in writing than in
speaking.
[] Course Continuity -- Provides a basis for the conversation(s) to
happen before and after the class. Lets face it coursework does not
end with the classroom ending - there is preparatory work and follow
up.
[] Study Aid -- Helps to compile class notes. This can be added to my
original concept of real time, collaborative, media-rich live-blogging
of the class. When combined with the Wave playback feature could make
for meaningful replays of a class possible.
[] Remote presence - when the prof. is absent, they may monitor class
activity through twitter (or Wave) and paricipate
Thoughts relevant to twitter
*twitter is good because those without laptops can still participate
in the conversation
*twitter character limit forces students to focus their ideas and
contribute a cogent statement
On Jun 6, 9:57 am, bjoern <klose.bjo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Something like this?http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_one_teacher_uses_twitter_in_...
>
twitter in class by projecting a giant image of live tweets, and
following up to build course continuity.
[] Overcoming public speaking inhibition -- Allows students to
participate in class via alternative means to speaking in front of the
group. Some people are intimidated by speaking in public. Many are
more capable of expressing a cogent thought in writing than in
speaking.
[] Course Continuity -- Provides a basis for the conversation(s) to
happen before and after the class. Lets face it coursework does not
end with the classroom ending - there is preparatory work and follow
up.
[] Study Aid -- Helps to compile class notes. This can be added to my
original concept of real time, collaborative, media-rich live-blogging
of the class. When combined with the Wave playback feature could make
for meaningful replays of a class possible.
[] Remote presence - when the prof. is absent, they may monitor class
activity through twitter (or Wave) and paricipate
Thoughts relevant to twitter
*twitter is good because those without laptops can still participate
in the conversation
*twitter character limit forces students to focus their ideas and
contribute a cogent statement
On Jun 6, 9:57 am, bjoern <klose.bjo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Something like this?http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_one_teacher_uses_twitter_in_...
>
aetopo
Jun 6, 2009, 2:29:43 PM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
In college we used to sit at large tables and listen to the
instructor. We would ask questions, answer questions, and even reserve
questions for later thought. We did all this while looking at one
another. This was a true social and collaborative setting in which we
could understand the nuances of what was being said and not said and
follow the thread of the discussion very efficiently and effectively.
It worked and will continue to work forever.
None of us looked for tools to assist us or distract us. We did
however look for good intentions.
I think instructors at all levels need to fill classrooms with waves
of good intentions and not with waves of gadgets.
instructor. We would ask questions, answer questions, and even reserve
questions for later thought. We did all this while looking at one
another. This was a true social and collaborative setting in which we
could understand the nuances of what was being said and not said and
follow the thread of the discussion very efficiently and effectively.
It worked and will continue to work forever.
None of us looked for tools to assist us or distract us. We did
however look for good intentions.
I think instructors at all levels need to fill classrooms with waves
of good intentions and not with waves of gadgets.
Chris Fullmer
Jun 6, 2009, 2:39:27 PM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
Or they could adapt to new technologies that were not available in the
past. I could see it going either way really....
past. I could see it going either way really....
Loren
Jun 6, 2009, 2:42:05 PM6/6/09
to Google Wave API
My question to you is when did you go to school?
Today people sit with laptops with many distractions - including but
not limited to facebook, twitter, online games, and instant
messaging.
This thread is about utilizing WAVE as a collaborative academic tool
in real time.
I do not find your input to be constructive or especially relevant
because it does not address contemporary life.
Today people sit with laptops with many distractions - including but
not limited to facebook, twitter, online games, and instant
messaging.
This thread is about utilizing WAVE as a collaborative academic tool
in real time.
I do not find your input to be constructive or especially relevant
because it does not address contemporary life.
casey dunn
Jun 6, 2009, 2:59:50 PM6/6/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Loren<Loren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My question to you is when did you go to school?
>
> Today people sit with laptops with many distractions - including but
> not limited to facebook, twitter, online games, and instant
> messaging.
> This thread is about utilizing WAVE as a collaborative academic tool
> in real time.
>
> My question to you is when did you go to school?
>
> Today people sit with laptops with many distractions - including but
> not limited to facebook, twitter, online games, and instant
> messaging.
> This thread is about utilizing WAVE as a collaborative academic tool
> in real time.
I've seen both modes during implementing Sakai at Stanford - a great
deal resting on the level of engagement by both instructor and
students.
and trust.
A number of instructors will never use more than an overhead
projection and a white board.
I'm pondering FERPA, as a starter.
Jack Park
Jun 6, 2009, 5:09:37 PM6/6/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
The connection language takes the form of "coherence relations" such
as "is an instance of", "is an example of", "supports", "refutes",
"causes" and so forth. The basis behind Cohere is that of annotating
information resources by "lifting ideas or questions" out of them,
then wiring those ideas up into a story. I'd like to think that either
Wavelets or Blips would be externally addressable in the same sense
that a Cohere annotation is, itself, an addressable resource you can
point to when connecting with coherence relations.
That way, we should be able to wire individual ideas found in waves
everywhere into coherent, contestable stories. Each connection is an
assertion made by somebody, say a student in a learning environment,
and should be addressable in the sense that the assertion itself, e.g.
X "causes" Y can be debated.
I see that opportunity as a grand opportunity for waves in the
classroom (and in the courtroom, and in government, and in ...).
Jack
perhaps I should have started this as a different thread so as not to
interfere with the twitter thread, which is, itself, worthy of further
dialogue.
as "is an instance of", "is an example of", "supports", "refutes",
"causes" and so forth. The basis behind Cohere is that of annotating
information resources by "lifting ideas or questions" out of them,
then wiring those ideas up into a story. I'd like to think that either
Wavelets or Blips would be externally addressable in the same sense
that a Cohere annotation is, itself, an addressable resource you can
point to when connecting with coherence relations.
That way, we should be able to wire individual ideas found in waves
everywhere into coherent, contestable stories. Each connection is an
assertion made by somebody, say a student in a learning environment,
and should be addressable in the sense that the assertion itself, e.g.
X "causes" Y can be debated.
I see that opportunity as a grand opportunity for waves in the
classroom (and in the courtroom, and in government, and in ...).
Jack
perhaps I should have started this as a different thread so as not to
interfere with the twitter thread, which is, itself, worthy of further
dialogue.
Loren
Jun 7, 2009, 1:19:48 AM6/7/09
to Google Wave API
This is not especially a twitter thread, but rather a general thread
to brainstorm using Wave in an academic environment so you're
intriguing insight into coherence relations are most welcome, Jack.
I am excited by the idea that this thread is generating enough
interest and content to break off into particular areas of discussion.
Perhaps a thread on 'coherence relations' and the API is in order.
Thanks Jack (and Casey, Chris, Bjoern) please keep contributing I
think this discussion is bearing fruit.
Loren
On Jun 6, 5:09 pm, Jack Park <jackp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The connection language takes the form of "coherence relations" such
> as "is an instance of", "is an example of", "supports", "refutes",
> "causes" and so forth. The basis behind Cohere is that of annotating
> information resources by "lifting ideas or questions" out of them,
> then wiring those ideas up into a story. I'd like to think that either
> Wavelets or Blips would be externally addressable in the same sense
> that a Cohere annotation is, itself, an addressable resource you can
> point to when connecting with coherence relations.
>
> That way, we should be able to wire individual ideas found in waves
> everywhere into coherent, contestable stories. Each connection is an
> assertion made by somebody, say a student in a learning environment,
> and should be addressable in the sense that the assertion itself, e.g.
> X "causes" Y can be debated.
>
> I see that opportunity as a grand opportunity for waves in the
> classroom (and in the courtroom, and in government, and in ...).
>
> Jack
> perhaps I should have started this as a different thread so as not to
> interfere with the twitter thread, which is, itself, worthy of further
> dialogue.
>
to brainstorm using Wave in an academic environment so you're
intriguing insight into coherence relations are most welcome, Jack.
I am excited by the idea that this thread is generating enough
interest and content to break off into particular areas of discussion.
Perhaps a thread on 'coherence relations' and the API is in order.
Thanks Jack (and Casey, Chris, Bjoern) please keep contributing I
think this discussion is bearing fruit.
Loren
On Jun 6, 5:09 pm, Jack Park <jackp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The connection language takes the form of "coherence relations" such
> as "is an instance of", "is an example of", "supports", "refutes",
> "causes" and so forth. The basis behind Cohere is that of annotating
> information resources by "lifting ideas or questions" out of them,
> then wiring those ideas up into a story. I'd like to think that either
> Wavelets or Blips would be externally addressable in the same sense
> that a Cohere annotation is, itself, an addressable resource you can
> point to when connecting with coherence relations.
>
> That way, we should be able to wire individual ideas found in waves
> everywhere into coherent, contestable stories. Each connection is an
> assertion made by somebody, say a student in a learning environment,
> and should be addressable in the sense that the assertion itself, e.g.
> X "causes" Y can be debated.
>
> I see that opportunity as a grand opportunity for waves in the
> classroom (and in the courtroom, and in government, and in ...).
>
> Jack
> perhaps I should have started this as a different thread so as not to
> interfere with the twitter thread, which is, itself, worthy of further
> dialogue.
>
> On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Loren <LorenRB...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Cohere is an interesting concept, I especially like its visual
> > structure.
>
> > Perhaps there could be a robot, similar to 'bloggy,' which could be
> > present in the wave and publish concepts in the in a visual structure
> > which would be an expression of the connection language used.
>
> > The cohere video shows that they have a connection language which you
> > input when responding to an idea. It seems that you tag the idea (i.e.
> > possible solution, piece of evidence, or prediction), and then the
> > program can display the concepts and their relationship visually in a
> > concept or argument map.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBS03VoWWAA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcohere%2...
>
> > Cohere is an interesting concept, I especially like its visual
> > structure.
>
> > Perhaps there could be a robot, similar to 'bloggy,' which could be
> > present in the wave and publish concepts in the in a visual structure
> > which would be an expression of the connection language used.
>
> > The cohere video shows that they have a connection language which you
> > input when responding to an idea. It seems that you tag the idea (i.e.
> > possible solution, piece of evidence, or prediction), and then the
> > program can display the concepts and their relationship visually in a
> > concept or argument map.
>
Jack Park
Jun 7, 2009, 10:27:46 AM6/7/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Loren.
I see this thread more in the light of something larger than learning:
sensemaking. After all, one way to look at a learning situation is
that it is a sensemaking event for learners. Sensemaking entails all
sorts of techniques, many of which are about organizing things in such
a way that you can, indeed, make sense of them; finding signals in the
noise, and more. Organizing tweets along various dimensions such as
author (whom you follow), subject (what it's about), time, and so
forth, allow you to generate sorted views. Then, taking time to wire
tweets together with coherence relations helps to form a story; from
there, humans (thus far) are much better than computers at making
meaning out of those stories. That's essentially the Engelbart/Nelson
augmentation program. I just happen to think that waves will solve
many of the HCI problems that have existed along the way. I call the
process "knowledge gardening"; there are some slides about (using
conventional HCI ideas) at [1]. Converting classrooms into knowledge
gardens would be, IMHO, a useful approach to improving education the
world over.
Jack
[1] http://www.slideshare.net/jackpark/knowledge-gardening
I see this thread more in the light of something larger than learning:
sensemaking. After all, one way to look at a learning situation is
that it is a sensemaking event for learners. Sensemaking entails all
sorts of techniques, many of which are about organizing things in such
a way that you can, indeed, make sense of them; finding signals in the
noise, and more. Organizing tweets along various dimensions such as
author (whom you follow), subject (what it's about), time, and so
forth, allow you to generate sorted views. Then, taking time to wire
tweets together with coherence relations helps to form a story; from
there, humans (thus far) are much better than computers at making
meaning out of those stories. That's essentially the Engelbart/Nelson
augmentation program. I just happen to think that waves will solve
many of the HCI problems that have existed along the way. I call the
process "knowledge gardening"; there are some slides about (using
conventional HCI ideas) at [1]. Converting classrooms into knowledge
gardens would be, IMHO, a useful approach to improving education the
world over.
Jack
[1] http://www.slideshare.net/jackpark/knowledge-gardening
Iain Cooke
Jun 7, 2009, 1:35:05 PM6/7/09
to Google Wave API
I see waves as evenmore valuable in remote learning/teaching
scenarios. If it isnt possible to all be together, then responsiveness
and flexibility makes all the difference. Right now, people have to
decide up front what sort of tool they want to use (email / IM /
wiki / forum) for a communication. With waves, you can more or less
adjust your use of the tool as you go along. Ultimately I am agreeing
with Jack that we have the potential here to solve many of the HCI
problems.
Iain
> >> >> >> > -Loren- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
scenarios. If it isnt possible to all be together, then responsiveness
and flexibility makes all the difference. Right now, people have to
decide up front what sort of tool they want to use (email / IM /
wiki / forum) for a communication. With waves, you can more or less
adjust your use of the tool as you go along. Ultimately I am agreeing
with Jack that we have the potential here to solve many of the HCI
problems.
Iain
>
> - Show quoted text -
Loren
Jun 14, 2009, 9:09:55 PM6/14/09
to Google Wave API
In college we used to compile class notes before finals into a master
copy that everyone in the class had access to.
My thought is to see the day when a published aspect of the wave is
projected behind the professor as an organic, collaborative white-
board.
Wave could be used to simultaneously create/publish class notes
during
the class, replete with images (i.e. pictures of world leaders, .pdf
files of readings, etcetera).
I would like people to begin thinking about gadgets which could be
useful in a classroom collaborative note-taking setting.
-Loren
copy that everyone in the class had access to.
My thought is to see the day when a published aspect of the wave is
projected behind the professor as an organic, collaborative white-
board.
Wave could be used to simultaneously create/publish class notes
during
the class, replete with images (i.e. pictures of world leaders, .pdf
files of readings, etcetera).
I would like people to begin thinking about gadgets which could be
useful in a classroom collaborative note-taking setting.
-Loren
Chris Weber
Jun 15, 2009, 1:13:07 PM6/15/09
to Google Wave API
I love this idea but it's easy to see how an fully open forum would
also be open for abuse, shenanigans, and other hijinks. Is it
possible to include a moderation step in the publishing workflow?
Perhaps introducing a student aid into the process so that bored or
cynical students couldn't introduce rudeness, irrelevance, or
distractions to the publicly viewable wave. It would slow down the
free flow of information a lot but I can't imagine a professor
enjoying jokes about how dumb they are being publically posted behind
them.
also be open for abuse, shenanigans, and other hijinks. Is it
possible to include a moderation step in the publishing workflow?
Perhaps introducing a student aid into the process so that bored or
cynical students couldn't introduce rudeness, irrelevance, or
distractions to the publicly viewable wave. It would slow down the
free flow of information a lot but I can't imagine a professor
enjoying jokes about how dumb they are being publically posted behind
them.
Jack Park
Jun 15, 2009, 1:18:21 PM6/15/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
A "moderation robot" as a participant comes to mind, code that somehow
engages a particular other participant in a "workflow". Not sure
that's possible, but sounds interesting.
engages a particular other participant in a "workflow". Not sure
that's possible, but sounds interesting.
Chris Marino
Jun 15, 2009, 1:21:55 PM6/15/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
A 'Moderation Robot' could do this as well as a bunch of other things...Rob Heittman is working on a prototype ( nann...@appengine.com) that does keyword scanning and some other things...
More here.
CM
More here.
CM
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Chris Weber <Christoph...@gmail.com> wrote:
Iain Cooke
Jun 15, 2009, 6:01:00 PM6/15/09
to Google Wave API
I'm not sure this is really a technical problem. A moderation bot
would be one defence. Another - and probably more effective would be
social pressure. After all, what is it that stops people ruining a
class with straightforward high jinks? Usually it is a combination of
fear (of reprisals from authority), respect (for the teacher one might
hope), an interest in learning something (in good classes) and peer
disapproval. When these things become weak, you get an unruly or
uncontrollable class. In wave, the students ought to be identifiable,
and the semi-permanent nature of the wave (even if a message is
deleted you could replay) means that it is hard to mess things up
without being trivially detectable.
Now, if you have an "open" forum with essentially anonymous
participants, then moderation becomes more vital as a defence, because
the social pressures are very weak. But then it would be more
interesting to figure out how to get something past the bot and onto
the screen....
Iain
On Jun 15, 7:21 pm, Chris Marino <christopher.c.mar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> .
>
> CM
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Chris Weber <Christopher.M.We...@gmail.com
would be one defence. Another - and probably more effective would be
social pressure. After all, what is it that stops people ruining a
class with straightforward high jinks? Usually it is a combination of
fear (of reprisals from authority), respect (for the teacher one might
hope), an interest in learning something (in good classes) and peer
disapproval. When these things become weak, you get an unruly or
uncontrollable class. In wave, the students ought to be identifiable,
and the semi-permanent nature of the wave (even if a message is
deleted you could replay) means that it is hard to mess things up
without being trivially detectable.
Now, if you have an "open" forum with essentially anonymous
participants, then moderation becomes more vital as a defence, because
the social pressures are very weak. But then it would be more
interesting to figure out how to get something past the bot and onto
the screen....
Iain
On Jun 15, 7:21 pm, Chris Marino <christopher.c.mar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> A 'Moderation Robot' could do this as well as a bunch of other things...Rob
> Heittman is working on a prototype ( nanny...@appengine.com) that does
> keyword scanning and some other things...
>
> More here<http://groups.google.com/group/wave-applications/browse_thread/thread...>
>
> .
>
> CM
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Chris Weber <Christopher.M.We...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> > I love this idea but it's easy to see how an fully open forum would
> > also be open for abuse, shenanigans, and other hijinks. Is it
> > possible to include a moderation step in the publishing workflow?
> > Perhaps introducing a student aid into the process so that bored or
> > cynical students couldn't introduce rudeness, irrelevance, or
> > distractions to the publicly viewable wave. It would slow down the
> > free flow of information a lot but I can't imagine a professor
> > enjoying jokes about how dumb they are being publically posted behind
> > them.
>
> > On Jun 6, 8:41 am, Loren <LorenRB...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > In college we used to compile class notes before finals into a master
> > > copy that everyone in the class had access to.
>
> > > My thought is to see the day when a published aspect of the wave is
> > > projected behind the professor as an organic, collaborative white-
> > > board.
>
> > > Wave could be used to simultaneously create/publish class notes during
> > > the class, replete with images (i.e. pictures of world leaders, .pdf
> > > files of readings, etcetera).
>
> > > I would like people to begin thinking about gadgets which could be
> > > useful in a classroom collaborative note-taking setting.
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> > I love this idea but it's easy to see how an fully open forum would
> > also be open for abuse, shenanigans, and other hijinks. Is it
> > possible to include a moderation step in the publishing workflow?
> > Perhaps introducing a student aid into the process so that bored or
> > cynical students couldn't introduce rudeness, irrelevance, or
> > distractions to the publicly viewable wave. It would slow down the
> > free flow of information a lot but I can't imagine a professor
> > enjoying jokes about how dumb they are being publically posted behind
> > them.
>
> > On Jun 6, 8:41 am, Loren <LorenRB...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > In college we used to compile class notes before finals into a master
> > > copy that everyone in the class had access to.
>
> > > My thought is to see the day when a published aspect of the wave is
> > > projected behind the professor as an organic, collaborative white-
> > > board.
>
> > > Wave could be used to simultaneously create/publish class notes during
> > > the class, replete with images (i.e. pictures of world leaders, .pdf
> > > files of readings, etcetera).
>
> > > I would like people to begin thinking about gadgets which could be
> > > useful in a classroom collaborative note-taking setting.
>
Rob Heittman
Jun 15, 2009, 9:44:11 PM6/15/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
I agree on the social pressure vs. monitoring difference. Detecting
and blocking naughtiness is not something that computers are great at.
The cases I'm experimenting with have more to do with helping the
workload of a human moderator. I misspent my childhood as a sysop on
BBSes, Compuserve, and AOL ...
and blocking naughtiness is not something that computers are great at.
The cases I'm experimenting with have more to do with helping the
workload of a human moderator. I misspent my childhood as a sysop on
BBSes, Compuserve, and AOL ...
So, I'm looking at what can be done with the "tell Nanny" sort of
case, where either a user flags something that needs attention, or an
overt stop-phrase is detected in passing. This adds an appropriate
on-duty mod to the wave and escalates it to their attention out of
band (email, SMS...) I'm also experimenting with different ways of
muting or banning offensive users, both in terms of what little the
API currently allows, and also to inform any RFEs I might put in to
Google, or marketing requirements for a non-Google enterprise
federated Wave server.
In the classroom case I think the only thing needed (but currently
don't have to my knowledge) is a way to close the allowed participant
set. In the current implementation I can't see what would stop a
joker from joining the wave from a (deniable) sock puppet account and
pranking it, end-running the social accountability aspect. Nanny can
sort-of do this now, just instruct it to delete anything a new
participant types, and whitelist everybody already in the wave -- but
that's an especially brutal hack. As more of Wave emerges this won't
be nearly as messy and the relevant capabilities will likely be in
core.
- Rob
Mohammady Mahdy
Jun 16, 2009, 4:16:24 AM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
I think such waves would be hosted on private servers that have their own authentication schemas *you authenticate with your student-id for example*
Rob Heittman
Jun 16, 2009, 9:01:14 AM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
I guess part of what I am interested in is how the 'private server' need could be met in different ways. For example, could my organization use Google Apps and -- like wavesandbox.com -- have a sufficiently closed universe of participants? I assume so, since that's kind of how it works now. But have not heard an announcement as to whether Wave will be publicly available that way, or only with public Google accounts. (anybody know?)
As a first class Google Apps citizen, it would be nice to have UIs for 'allow participants from my domain', etc -- many of the things Google Docs already does well. Relevant to the API topic here, it will be nice if there are means for a sufficiently capable bot (or other facility) to automate whatever those UIs expose.
For example I might want to spawn a Wave for each of my classes, load it with initial content, invite the students, and set the permissions. If I teach 5 sections of CS 555 (Implementing Google Wave APIs) every semester, it would be nice to have a tool that does this for me and avoid lots of repeat monkeywork. I can almost build that tool now with sandbox but not quite.
I know most big educational institutions tend to have their own IT infrastructure, but small ones often don't, and both big and small are increasingly turning to the cloud like everyone else. I'd love to see Google Wave itself -- not only private servers speaking the Wave protocol -- cover this need completely and well, and allow me to value add for the vertical via APIs in the cloud.
Just thinking out loud.
Marcelo Stein de Lima Sousa
Jun 16, 2009, 9:06:56 AM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
Perhaps would be useful to see how Edmodo (http://www.edmodo.com) implements discussions (and other classrooms tools) around twittering.
Greetings,
m.
=================================
marcelo stein de lima sousa
universidade tecnologica federal do parana
federal university of technology - parana
curitiba, brasil
msteinas at gmail dot com
marcelo stein de lima sousa
universidade tecnologica federal do parana
federal university of technology - parana
curitiba, brasil
msteinas at gmail dot com
Zac Shenker
Jun 16, 2009, 9:33:58 AM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
I would say that quite alot of what you want to achieve could be done through robots.
As far as I understand it if all the participants in your Wave are on your Wave server the traffic will only ever be to that Wave server. So your organisation could setup their own Wave server and all Waves would only ever be on your servers.
In terms of a class Wave you could setup a robot to handle this. You could setup a web interface that allows you to define classes and the Wave addresses of all of the students in that class. You could then create a new wave a set the title to be something like "ClassName/Code - Week1" you could then add your robot it can lookup all your students wave addresses and add them as participants in your wave.
Let me know if you have any interest in collaborating or discussing extensions for Wave in education.
Regards,
Zac
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Loren
Jun 16, 2009, 3:45:21 PM6/16/09
to Google Wave API
To all - thanks for your valuable input.
Thanks to Chris, today the conversation centered around the concept of
preventing abuse of the collaborative whiteboard. This is an important
issue.
Jack and Chris brought up the concept of a 'moderation robot,' similar
to the 'nanny' bot which Rob Heittman has been working on.
I like the concept of 'flagging posts and edits' which could be
inappropriate because it would allow for a teacher's aid to approve
edits and posts (or not). He or she would have an easier job acting as
a clearinghouse for edits. I believe the combination of robot and
human editorial control is important in an academic setting because of
the varied issues which are discussed in class. For instance if the
class is discussing gender issues some of the language used might be
edited out by a robot even if meaningful and relevant to classroom
discussion.
Rob also brings up an interesting point of an open or closed
participant set. Will Wave allow anyone on the server to join any
Wave? I do not think this is the case. I do not have access to the
sandbox but it would seem that the access would follow the same as
with Google Groups. Some groups are open access and you merely provide
your sign in information. Others require Group Owner invitation or
authorization for membership and access.
Again, thank you for your continuing contributions.
-Loren
On Jun 16, 9:33 am, Zac Shenker <zshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would say that quite alot of what you want to achieve could be done
> through robots.
> As far as I understand it
> if all the participants in your Wave are on your Wave server the
> traffic will only ever be to that Wave server. So your organisation
> could setup their own Wave server and all Waves would only ever be on
> your servers.
>
> In terms of a class Wave you could setup a robot to handle this. You
> could setup a web interface that allows you to define classes and the
> Wave addresses of all of the students in that class. You could then
> create a new wave a set the title to be something like "ClassName/Code
> - Week1" you could then add your robot it can lookup
> all your students wave addresses and add them as participants in your wave.
>
> Let me know if you have any interest in collaborating or discussing
> extensions for Wave in education.
>
> Regards,
> Zac
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Rob Heittman
> <rob.heitt...@solertium.com>wrote:
> >> <http://solertium.com/rob>http://solertium.com/rob
Thanks to Chris, today the conversation centered around the concept of
preventing abuse of the collaborative whiteboard. This is an important
issue.
Jack and Chris brought up the concept of a 'moderation robot,' similar
to the 'nanny' bot which Rob Heittman has been working on.
I like the concept of 'flagging posts and edits' which could be
inappropriate because it would allow for a teacher's aid to approve
edits and posts (or not). He or she would have an easier job acting as
a clearinghouse for edits. I believe the combination of robot and
human editorial control is important in an academic setting because of
the varied issues which are discussed in class. For instance if the
class is discussing gender issues some of the language used might be
edited out by a robot even if meaningful and relevant to classroom
discussion.
Rob also brings up an interesting point of an open or closed
participant set. Will Wave allow anyone on the server to join any
Wave? I do not think this is the case. I do not have access to the
sandbox but it would seem that the access would follow the same as
with Google Groups. Some groups are open access and you merely provide
your sign in information. Others require Group Owner invitation or
authorization for membership and access.
Again, thank you for your continuing contributions.
-Loren
On Jun 16, 9:33 am, Zac Shenker <zshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would say that quite alot of what you want to achieve could be done
> through robots.
> As far as I understand it
> if all the participants in your Wave are on your Wave server the
> traffic will only ever be to that Wave server. So your organisation
> could setup their own Wave server and all Waves would only ever be on
> your servers.
>
> In terms of a class Wave you could setup a robot to handle this. You
> could setup a web interface that allows you to define classes and the
> Wave addresses of all of the students in that class. You could then
> create a new wave a set the title to be something like "ClassName/Code
> - Week1" you could then add your robot it can lookup
> all your students wave addresses and add them as participants in your wave.
>
> Let me know if you have any interest in collaborating or discussing
> extensions for Wave in education.
>
> Regards,
> Zac
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Rob Heittman
>
>
>
> > I guess part of what I am interested in is how the 'private server' need
> > could be met in different ways. For example, could my organization use
> > Google Apps and -- like wavesandbox.com -- have a sufficiently closed
> > universe of participants? I assume so, since that's kind of how it works
> > now. But have not heard an announcement as to whether Wave will be publicly
> > available that way, or only with public Google accounts. (anybody know?)
>
> > As a first class Google Apps citizen, it would be nice to have UIs for
> > 'allow participants from my domain', etc -- many of the things Google Docs
> > already does well. Relevant to the API topic here, it will be nice if there
> > are means for a sufficiently capable bot (or other facility) to automate
> > whatever those UIs expose.
>
> > For example I might want to spawn a Wave for each of my classes, load it
> > with initial content, invite the students, and set the permissions. If I
> > teach 5 sections of CS 555 (Implementing Google Wave APIs) every semester,
> > it would be nice to have a tool that does this for me and avoid lots of
> > repeat monkeywork. I can almost build that tool now with sandbox but not
> > quite.
>
> > I know most big educational institutions tend to have their own IT
> > infrastructure, but small ones often don't, and both big and small are
> > increasingly turning to the cloud like everyone else. I'd love to see
> > Google Wave itself -- not only private servers speaking the Wave protocol --
> > cover this need completely and well, and allow me to value add for the
> > vertical via APIs in the cloud.
>
> > Just thinking out loud.
>
> > On Jun 16, 2009, at 4:16 AM, Mohammady Mahdy <mohammady.ma...@gmail.com>
>
>
> > I guess part of what I am interested in is how the 'private server' need
> > could be met in different ways. For example, could my organization use
> > Google Apps and -- like wavesandbox.com -- have a sufficiently closed
> > universe of participants? I assume so, since that's kind of how it works
> > now. But have not heard an announcement as to whether Wave will be publicly
> > available that way, or only with public Google accounts. (anybody know?)
>
> > As a first class Google Apps citizen, it would be nice to have UIs for
> > 'allow participants from my domain', etc -- many of the things Google Docs
> > already does well. Relevant to the API topic here, it will be nice if there
> > are means for a sufficiently capable bot (or other facility) to automate
> > whatever those UIs expose.
>
> > For example I might want to spawn a Wave for each of my classes, load it
> > with initial content, invite the students, and set the permissions. If I
> > teach 5 sections of CS 555 (Implementing Google Wave APIs) every semester,
> > it would be nice to have a tool that does this for me and avoid lots of
> > repeat monkeywork. I can almost build that tool now with sandbox but not
> > quite.
>
> > I know most big educational institutions tend to have their own IT
> > infrastructure, but small ones often don't, and both big and small are
> > increasingly turning to the cloud like everyone else. I'd love to see
> > Google Wave itself -- not only private servers speaking the Wave protocol --
> > cover this need completely and well, and allow me to value add for the
> > vertical via APIs in the cloud.
>
> > Just thinking out loud.
>
> > wrote:
>
> > I think such waves would be hosted on private servers that have their own
> > authentication schemas *you authenticate with your student-id for example*
>
>
> > I think such waves would be hosted on private servers that have their own
> > authentication schemas *you authenticate with your student-id for example*
>
Scott Wilson
Jun 16, 2009, 5:11:43 PM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
Loren,
Take a look at this if you haven't already, it may help:
http://zope.cetis.ac.uk/members/scott/blogview?entry=20090612190435
Its not a Wave, its a Moodle LMS with Wave gadgets in it - it doesn't
use the google sandbox or any google server code, and is managed in
the same manner as any other Moodle LMS - e.g. the participants in the
Wave Gadgets are Moodle users who've logged in and been enrolled into
courses as usual.
Btw, we added a lock/unlock/clear API to our Widget API for moderators
for just the reasons you provided (you won't see these in the live
demo site, but as the course leader I can clear the chat widget, lock
the voting widget etc).
This could be a useful halfway-house for education institutions.
Cheers,
S
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Iain Cooke
Jun 16, 2009, 5:30:47 PM6/16/09
to Google Wave API
To close the participant set, you could just have the client ignore
wavelets with unwanted participants. As far as I understand the model,
any time the participant set changes you get a new wavelet. Two of the
three monkeys...
There is probably something that could be done at server level on the
same basis.
However, it is generally an interesting apparent hole in the model -
how does one prevent a participant in a wave inviting in someone the
others disapprove of? This isnt a problem specific to wave either, but
it would be handy in many circumstances to be able to close the
participant list, or have some other form of control than anyone can
add anyone.
> > social pressure.- Hide quoted text -
wavelets with unwanted participants. As far as I understand the model,
any time the participant set changes you get a new wavelet. Two of the
three monkeys...
There is probably something that could be done at server level on the
same basis.
However, it is generally an interesting apparent hole in the model -
how does one prevent a participant in a wave inviting in someone the
others disapprove of? This isnt a problem specific to wave either, but
it would be handy in many circumstances to be able to close the
participant list, or have some other form of control than anyone can
add anyone.
Iain Cooke
Jun 16, 2009, 5:35:51 PM6/16/09
to Google Wave API
Generally, I think there is an opportunity here to form a "consortium"
or interest group and somehow share the costs/time of building
something that works for education. There is a lot of potential here,
we should be able to figure out some way of coordinating and
accelerating development to serve aligned communities.
Does anyone with an education interest here have access to the sandbox
yet?
Iain
> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Rob Heittman <rob.heitt...@solertium.com
> > > social pressure.- Hide quoted text -
or interest group and somehow share the costs/time of building
something that works for education. There is a lot of potential here,
we should be able to figure out some way of coordinating and
accelerating development to serve aligned communities.
Does anyone with an education interest here have access to the sandbox
yet?
Iain
Iain Cooke
Jun 16, 2009, 6:08:27 PM6/16/09
to Google Wave API
Thinking about that a bit more, I must have got something wrong - if
you can add a participant to a wave, and they get to see the whole
wave, then it sort of implies they have been added to all the
wavelets. time to RTFM again.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
you can add a participant to a wave, and they get to see the whole
wave, then it sort of implies they have been added to all the
wavelets. time to RTFM again.
Youngblood
Jun 16, 2009, 6:17:28 PM6/16/09
to Google Wave API
Adding people to a Wave is completely under the control of the author.
Additionally, private comments can be made amongst a specific subset
of the wave participants all within the context of the wave.
This bodes well for a class discussion use case, perhaps around a
project for example. The students could collaboratively communicate
but side conversations between any subset of those participants can
happen within the wave. Very nice.
Additionally, private comments can be made amongst a specific subset
of the wave participants all within the context of the wave.
This bodes well for a class discussion use case, perhaps around a
project for example. The students could collaboratively communicate
but side conversations between any subset of those participants can
happen within the wave. Very nice.
Loren
Jun 16, 2009, 7:39:00 PM6/16/09
to Google Wave API
I would like to second Iain's proposal for forming 'consortium' or
interest group that shares the time/cost of building something that
works for education.
Perhaps in a separate Google group? Which is not to say that this
group should dry up (rather on the contrary) because it has been
fertile ground to find those interested in the concept among those
browsing the Wave API gGroup.
It might also be a good idea to seek out people with specific skill
sets to join such a consortium.
I.e. *including but not limited to
[] a PhD in education theory
[] developers with sandbox access
[] current lecturers - after all the 'something' we are talking about
- the academic wave - needs to (A) fulfill or enhance needs of
contemporary students and teachers and (B) have accessible and
intuitive tools to fulfill those very things.
-Loren
interest group that shares the time/cost of building something that
works for education.
Perhaps in a separate Google group? Which is not to say that this
group should dry up (rather on the contrary) because it has been
fertile ground to find those interested in the concept among those
browsing the Wave API gGroup.
It might also be a good idea to seek out people with specific skill
sets to join such a consortium.
I.e. *including but not limited to
[] a PhD in education theory
[] developers with sandbox access
[] current lecturers - after all the 'something' we are talking about
- the academic wave - needs to (A) fulfill or enhance needs of
contemporary students and teachers and (B) have accessible and
intuitive tools to fulfill those very things.
-Loren
Jack Park
Jun 16, 2009, 8:20:58 PM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
There is now a google group at
http://groups.google.com/group/wave-applications
that is open to a variety of applications. I'm just guessing that
education, classrooms, etc, will create a variety of categories within
that group; otherwise, it's not too hard to create yet another group.
Two different application domains appear really important: education
and health care.
Jack
http://groups.google.com/group/wave-applications
that is open to a variety of applications. I'm just guessing that
education, classrooms, etc, will create a variety of categories within
that group; otherwise, it's not too hard to create yet another group.
Two different application domains appear really important: education
and health care.
Jack
casey dunn
Jun 16, 2009, 8:46:38 PM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Jack Park<jack...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There is now a google group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/wave-applications
> that is open to a variety of applications. I'm just guessing that
> education, classrooms, etc, will create a variety of categories within
> that group; otherwise, it's not too hard to create yet another group.
> Two different application domains appear really important: education
> and health care.
>
> Jack
>
>
> There is now a google group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/wave-applications
> that is open to a variety of applications. I'm just guessing that
> education, classrooms, etc, will create a variety of categories within
> that group; otherwise, it's not too hard to create yet another group.
> Two different application domains appear really important: education
> and health care.
>
> Jack
>
excellent move, Jack!
Rob Heittman
Jun 16, 2009, 9:20:59 PM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
You guys beat me to the punch. I would also recommend starting out
this consortium-of-education-applications discussion in Wave
Applications and, if it grows beyond reasonable bounds, it probably
needs its own home.
this consortium-of-education-applications discussion in Wave
Applications and, if it grows beyond reasonable bounds, it probably
needs its own home.
I'm already tracking 3 Wave groups and a handful of Wave forums ...
I'm trying to post cross references where I can, but it's getting to
be a bit challenging. If somebody starts a Education Wave group I'll
join it -- I meet 2 of Loren's categories :-) -- but would love to
limit the number of groups/fora I need to track.
Loren
Jun 16, 2009, 9:50:24 PM6/16/09
to Google Wave API
*In response to several calls for a separate group for this discussion
I have created a gGroup the link to which is below.
http://groups.google.com/group/gwave-academe-
gWave Academe
A place to discuss the implementation of a suite of tools to enhance
the academic experience using the Google Wave protocol and the
establishment of an open-source consortium of savants who share in the
development of such a suite.
I have created a gGroup the link to which is below.
http://groups.google.com/group/gwave-academe-
gWave Academe
A place to discuss the implementation of a suite of tools to enhance
the academic experience using the Google Wave protocol and the
establishment of an open-source consortium of savants who share in the
development of such a suite.
Rob Heittman
Jun 16, 2009, 10:23:28 PM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
OK (that one posted, Loren) ... I joined. Let's see how long before my brains melt. :-)
Jack Park
Jun 16, 2009, 10:30:49 PM6/16/09
to google-...@googlegroups.com
I can't take credit for that group; it was there already, but it's
still pretty cool.
Jack
still pretty cool.
Jack
Iain Cooke
Jun 17, 2009, 1:59:10 AM6/17/09
to Google Wave API
Yes, I was totally wrong :-)
The federation protocol has add and remove participant. There is also
a doc on access control (http://www.waveprotocol.org/whitepapers/
access-control), which down at the bottom says
"Per-wavelet access control
Google Wave will eventually support some level of access control on a
wavelets but requirements and implementation plans have yet to be
determined. For example:•A "commenter" role whereby a user can only
create new blips and edit their own blips.•A "confidential" mode (on
the whole wavelet) or role (on a participant) where participants can't
add new participants."
So, it is work in progress. However, they do have group management in
there, so I expect the whole thing will work for most scenarios in the
end :-)
Iain
The federation protocol has add and remove participant. There is also
a doc on access control (http://www.waveprotocol.org/whitepapers/
access-control), which down at the bottom says
"Per-wavelet access control
Google Wave will eventually support some level of access control on a
wavelets but requirements and implementation plans have yet to be
determined. For example:•A "commenter" role whereby a user can only
create new blips and edit their own blips.•A "confidential" mode (on
the whole wavelet) or role (on a participant) where participants can't
add new participants."
So, it is work in progress. However, they do have group management in
there, so I expect the whole thing will work for most scenarios in the
end :-)
Iain
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