Country-wise Speed Defaults

[Map Maker Guide]

Hi Everyone,
One of the issues discussed in the Zurich conference was to have
country-wise speed defaults for roads of different priorities. To have
a comprehensive dataset enlisting individual speed limits, we have
created following spreadsheet, where you can add speed limits of your
country: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ao8QbArq0LrJdGVKcDV1dWhSWC1aaHJfNEhYdmFnTkE&hl=en

Once this is ready, we'll work on incorporating these as the default
speed with respect to the country.

Thanks,
Map Maker Guide.

[popescu.c...@gmail.com]

Well, bummer .... Romania isn't in the list even if it's a mapmaker editable country.

[Map Maker Guide]

Sorry for the oversight ... I've made the correction now.

Regards,
Map Maker Guide.

[popescu.c...@gmail.com]

Ok, but, what's the deal with "average speed" ?

[Keshav]

Hi Map Maker Guide,

I have filled up the values for Nepal.   I have added 2 more fields "Added by" and "Updated by" in case for resolving conflict or if someone needs to contact the person who added/updated the values.  Hope my modifications didn't break the purpose of the spreadsheet.

As in GMM, there is only one attribute for "Speed Limit" and there's no attribute for "Average Speed", is GMM going to include new attribute "Average Speed" to the Roads feature ?

Keshav

On 31 March 2010 19:18, <popescu.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, but, what's the deal with "average speed" ?

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[wolf]

Hi,

default maximum speed limits are usually set by a countries' national
traffic authority based on the national road classification. Wouldn't
it be helpful to also document the mapping of national classification
to google classification for each country as a guideline for mappers?

E.g. where I live, roads are classified according to the authority
responsible for their maintenance and in addition by the traffic
authority. I just checked on google maps, and there is indeed a
mapping between these road types to primary/secondary/local roads (we
don't have arteries, they are either primary or secondary roads), even
though there are occasional exceptions (some local roads have been
upgraded to secondary). Also, our primary roads are also controlled
access roads (toll for trucks and no slow moving vehicles). In order
to get this right across a country, some documentation might be
helpful.

Just my 2 cents...
wolf

On 31 Mrz., 15:08, Map Maker Guide <mapmakergu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>  One of the issues discussed in the Zurich conference was to have
> country-wise speed defaults for roads of different priorities. To have
> a comprehensive dataset enlisting individual speed limits, we have
> created following spreadsheet, where you can add speed limits of your

> country:https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ao8QbArq0LrJdGVKcDV1dWhSWC1a...

[wolf]

As an afterthought, often there is a default speed limit within
municipalities, would be worth knowing that as well for later checks
e.g. in heat maps.

wolf

[Map Maker Guide]

Hi All,
@twist3r - While we are still working on finer details for this, the
concept behind having an 'Average Speed' option is to help generate
accurate Driving Directions. In many countries, the maximum
permissible speed limit allowed by the traffic authorities does not
usually coincide with the Avg Speed. If it does, please feel free to
leave the Average speed blank.

@Keshav - Adding these two fields in the spreadsheet was indeed a good
notion. Thank you for doing that :-)
And yes, we do intend to have both 'Avg Speed' and 'Max Speed' fields
in the Google Map Maker. The default values will be those that are
aggregated on the sheet. But, we will also have the option of changing
the values as needed.

@wolf - You may visit following help page for referring to mapping
guidelines for road priorities: http://maps.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=156967
An excellent case in point is Romania, where mappers mapped all
National roads (DNxx) as Primary Highway and all County roads (DJxx)
as Secondary Highway. Such country-specific guidelines are indeed
helpful for having a standardized naming convention. Check out the
Romanian guidelines here: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AY8QbArq0LrJZGhic20yM21fMmZyM2NmN2Q0&hl=en

Hope that answers your question.

Regards,
Map Maker Guide.

[Namik]

Hi MMG!

Note that Kosovo does not appear in the list. Shall I add to it or you
will do so?
Once in the list, I could update the pertinent speeds.

Thanks,
Namik

On Mar 31, 3:08 pm, Map Maker Guide <mapmakergu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>  One of the issues discussed in the Zurich conference was to have
> country-wise speed defaults for roads of different priorities. To have
> a comprehensive dataset enlisting individual speed limits, we have
> created following spreadsheet, where you can add speed limits of your

> country:https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ao8QbArq0LrJdGVKcDV1dWhSWC1a...

[Map Maker Guide]

Hi Namik,

 I've just added Kosovo on the doc. Please go ahead with the update.

Thanks,

Map Maker Guide.

[astroshima]

Hi MMG,
please add Serbia.

Thanks :-)

[Map Maker Guide]

Added now :)

Thanks,
Map Maker Guide.

[Keshav]

To astroshima,

When Map Maker Guide shared the spreadsheet, I'd added two fields "Added by" and "Updated by" with a hope that those editing the spreadsheet would write their email id in the sheet itself.

As you wrote, you don't know who updated the speeds for your country -- here are the steps you can try to find out 'who', 'when' !

-  Open the spreadsheet

-  Click on menu 'File' -> 'See revision history'

-  Now, under the menu you can choose which old version of the file you want to see and navigate to your interested part of sheet -- its easy to find - they are highlighted in orange color.

To Map Maker Guide,

At the time of writing this mail, I was able to access the spreadsheet that's how I made the above mentioned steps,  I checked the share options, saw that any sign-in was not a requirement to view/edit.  I clicked to make sign-in required, after that I am not able to even view the sheet :( says "my email id don't have permission to view the sheet".  I think, will have to 'request access' later.

Keshav

On 14 April 2010 05:13, astroshima <astro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi MMG,
can you find out
1. who and
2.  when
have made Update of speeds for some Country?

After initial edit I can't see who updated the speeds for my country.

I believe nobody should be allowed to update the chart data without
(some) public identification!

Thanks for your help and effort...

[Map Maker Guide]

Hi Keshav,
Thanks for making sign-in mandatory. I have added you on the
spreadsheet's editor list. You should be able to access/edit it now :)

Regards,
Map Maker Guide.

On Apr 14, 8:10 pm, Keshav <krm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To astroshima,
>
> When Map Maker Guide shared the spreadsheet, I'd added two fields "Added by"
> and "Updated by" with a hope that those editing the spreadsheet would write
> their email id in the sheet itself.
>
> As you wrote, you don't know who updated the speeds for your country -- here
> are the steps you can try to find out 'who', 'when' !
>
> -  Open the spreadsheet
> -  Click on menu 'File' -> 'See revision history'
> -  Now, under the menu you can choose which old version of the file you want
> to see and navigate to your interested part of sheet -- its easy to find -
> they are highlighted in orange color.
>
> To Map Maker Guide,
>
> At the time of writing this mail, I was able to access the spreadsheet
> that's how I made the above mentioned steps,  I checked the share options,
> saw that any sign-in was not a requirement to view/edit.  I clicked to make
> sign-in required, after that I am not able to even view the sheet :( says
> "my email id don't have permission to view the sheet".  I think, will have
> to 'request access' later.
>
> Keshav
>

> On 14 April 2010 05:13, astroshima <astrosh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi MMG,
> > can you find out
> > 1. who and
> > 2.  when
> > have made Update of speeds for some Country?
>
> > After initial edit I can't see who updated the speeds for my country.
>
> > I believe nobody should be allowed to update the chart data without
> > (some) public identification!
>
> > Thanks for your help and effort...
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "General Map Maker" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > google-mapmak...@googlegroups.com<google-mapmaker%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Vladimir Simunic]

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 20:55 +0545, Keshav wrote:
> To astroshima,

Thanks.

> At the time of writing this mail, I was able to access the spreadsheet
> that's how I made the above mentioned steps, I checked the share
> options, saw that any sign-in was not a requirement to view/edit. I
> clicked to make sign-in required, after that I am not able to even
> view the sheet :( says "my email id don't have permission to view the
> sheet". I think, will have to 'request access' later.

Seems that now everybody(!?) have to explicitly ask access to this
document just to view(!?) it...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ao8QbArq0LrJdGVKcDV1dWhSWC1aaHJfNEhYdmFnTkE&hl=en&pli=1

"Google Docs


We're sorry, 'your_google_e-mail_address' does not have permission to
access this spreadsheet.


You are signed in as 'your_google_e-mail_address', but that email
address doesn't have permission to access this spreadsheet. (Sign in as
a different user or request access to this document)

[Map Maker Guide]

Hi Vladimir,
Though it might seem a bit inconvenient, I agree with Keshav here
that restricting access to the sheet will definitely keep things in
check. Anyone can request access to the spreadsheet and once granted,
the person can effectively edit it.

To request access, please ping on this thread or hit the 'request
access to this document' option

Thanks,
Map Maker Guide.

On Apr 16, 7:30 pm, Vladimir Simunic <astrosh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 20:55 +0545, Keshav wrote:
> > To astroshima,
>
> Thanks.
>
> > At the time of writing this mail, I was able to access the spreadsheet
> > that's how I made the above mentioned steps,  I checked the share
> > options, saw that any sign-in was not a requirement to view/edit.  I
> > clicked to make sign-in required, after that I am not able to even
> > view the sheet :( says "my email id don't have permission to view the
> > sheet".  I think, will have to 'request access' later.
>
> Seems that now everybody(!?) have to explicitly ask access to this
> document just to view(!?) it...
>

> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ao8QbArq0LrJdGVKcDV1dWhSWC1a...

[Ali]

Any update on using this sheet!?
As we discussed, this is a matter of emergency. The later it is
solved, the more INCORRECT data is stored in MapMaker (which can ONLY
be corrected manually).

Thanks,
Ali

[Map Maker Guide]

I completely understand your concern, Ali. But please be assured that
we are indeed working on getting this implemented as soon as we can.

Regards,
Map Maker Guide.

[Ali]

Thank you.
Ali

[Mihai]

As I cannot find the 'request access' on the document, I am requesting
access here.
Reason - adding my email address, Romania speeds.

[Map Maker Guide]

Shared now :)

Regards,
Map Maker Guide

[greg....@hotmail.com]

MMG,

 

I would like to add to the Country-wise speeds. Please grant me access.

 

Thanks,

Gorio 

[Map Maker Guide]

Sure Gorio :-) Shared it now

Regards,
Map Maker Guide

[Mihai]

Could you do a fast update for Romanian using the current data ?

[John]

Would also be great to be able to somehow submit them state-by-state, or even within cities.  For example, New York City, Freeways/Expressways top out at 50 MPH.  Everything else tops out at 30.  Other states also have fairly definitive statewide speed limits.  I don't mean to hijack and start a long discussion about this, but it's more just something to think about, and the data's fairly easy to find.  That's all!

[canada_mapmaker]

I'm thinking of adding Canada, but the speed limits for various types of roads varies from province to province, since roads in Canada are generally a provincial matter and not a national one. There's also major differences between cities and counties, as cities/counties are free to set their own speed limits as they see fit.

For example, in Ontario, most freeways have a posted speed limit of 100 km/h, with some at 80 or 90 km/h. In some provinces freeways are at 110 km/h. In many Canadian provinces, two-lane rural highways typically are 90 km/h, but in Ontario they tend to be 80 km/h, with some county roads posted at 90 km/h.

I think it would be appropriate to split Canada up for the purposes of this spreadsheet - such as West, Ontario, Quebec, and Atlantic.

[zxrayz]

I have notice the Road types in the spreadsheet don't match the road types available in MapMaker. 

Am I correct in saying that:

a Secondary H/way is a Regional Highway (that works for Costa Rica)

a Primary H/way is a National Highway

and Controlled Access H/ways are Expressways and Freeways.

[canada_mapmaker]

Depends on the jurisdiction. What we call primary highways in the province of Ontario are sometimes considered Regional Highways by the brass at Google (even though I think they should be National).

[zxrayz]

I would 'assume' that google is planning to set defaults for various Google road categories so that these defaults are automatically applied if a user does not adjust the data. Therefore, it would make sense to enter speeds per the google road categories. Mappers in each country typically has defined what google road priority match the local road system.  Maybe Google is planning to change the road type categories also, who knows.

[Craig Hartel]

This is something that should be in the issue tracker - the workflow should be to set feature variables before drawing the feature to ensure that it gets done. Look at roads for new mappers; they draw the road and save, then the segment goes into Under Review status and the attributes can't be set. The mapper then just continues laying down roads, but never goes back to the features because of the wait for reviews.

If the feature attributes were set first, it would save a step in edits and would require one review instead of two.

Added to issue tracker here.

[Greg Noel]

Craig, why would you save before you've entered all the data?  And if you do save prematurely, that's what the "Undo" button is for; you get to do it again until you learn to get it right.  (Yes, I understand your point that newbies may not have the details right initially, but that's why the review process is there, so that they learn to take the time to get it right in the first place.)

Now, I'm not saying that there couldn't be some improvement in the workflow.  However, you have to make your case on something other than a newbie's lack of experience.

Oh, and instead of your somewhat narrow issue, may I refer you to the Project Zone proposal?  If that is implemented, the newbie will be able to create a project zone and take as many wacks as he/she needs before submitting an edit for approval.

[Craig Hartel]

With the new UI, even G is telling us to expect a lot more reviews. Reducing n00b mistakes, (like all the ones I made) aren't a good enough reason to suggest a change in the workflow? Okay...but when I was making those mistakes, it wasn't pointed out to me. The road segments were approved if appropriately mapped, with the assumption that the road attributes were correct. They weren't. I had to wait for approvals to go back and re-edit. I didn't realize that I could UNDO and make those changes right away. Although I feel I did a good job reading through the available guides, I don't recall anything that describes a workflow. 

[Mihai]

This topic is 18 MONTHS old !!!   Pay more attention.


All the info inside that sheet is already applied. 2 years ago we only had maximum speed as info. A medium speed was introduced due to various reasons. The speeds here are the default speeds the application suggests when adding a new segment.

[Greg Noel]

On Sunday, December 18, 2011 9:48:41 PM UTC-8, Craig Hartel wrote:

... Reducing n00b mistakes, ... aren't a good enough reason to suggest a change in the workflow?

Not by itself, no.  You also need to make the case that, at a minimum, it won't impact power users, and, preferably, that the workflow will improve for them as well.  If you add five mouse clicks to the workflow so that newbies (note correct spelling, this isn't SMS) are forced to acknowledge that they've at least looked at everything, then you've made the workflow much worse for everybody else.
 

Okay...but when I was making those mistakes, it wasn't pointed out to me.

Yeah, I've had my experiences with reviewer incompetence as well.  I once suggested deleting a poorly-drawn polygon that cut through houses and duplicated a well-drawn polygon (which had the correct category to boot); a Google Reviewer rejected the edit because the polygon was poorly drawn and cut through houses.  Huh?  (I freely admit that this confusion was partially attributable to the terrible UI for deletions, which is all but indistinguishable from an edit that adds something; the point is that the reviewer didn't pay attention to the details they were supposed to be watching.)

As more reviewers become available, I'd hope that more eyes on the edits will cause more mentoring to occur.  Or maybe something like the Project Zone proposal will be implemented: I'd like to think that it offers a better workflow not only for power users (by allowing a large set of related changes to be submitted in a single batch) but also for newbies (by having an experienced user assigned to monitor the construction from the very beginning).
 

... I had to wait for approvals to go back and re-edit.

One change I would gladly see is to allow a user to go back to their own pending edits and amend them.  Yes, you can theoretically do this in response to a request for comments, but it doesn't always work reliably.  (At least, I've never figured out when it will create a new edit instead of modifying the existing edit.)

A related change I would also gladly see is to outlaw multiple pending edits on the same object (yes, even if they don't overlap).  If we are forced to dispose of a pending edit before making additional changes, there would be a lot less confusion.  Yes, even edits from Places; a dozen edits to change a telephone number isn't productive.
 

I didn't realize that I could UNDO and make those changes right away. Although I feel I did a good job reading through the available guides, I don't recall anything that describes a workflow.

I can get behind this suggestion as well.  The help pages and the guides need a lot of work.  They tend to have a lot of descriptions that read like "The Furzel Battington button allows you to furzel the battington" without offering any insight as to why you might want to furzel a battington (or what effect it has, for that matter).  (I once worked with a tech writer who would convert tech words to random babble before having it reviewed.  If you couldn't figure out what it meant, it got edited until you did.  Needless to say, she wrote the best technical manuals I've ever seen.)  Certainly, the pages that walk you through the steps need to be much more heavily invested in how to recover from problems.  I imagine that this will get better with time.

[zxrayz]

wow this is old....  but I am guessing there are many countries that need still need the default speeds corrected.

[Борис]

Hi, I would also like to add the data for Peru, but have no access. There´s no " 'request access to this document" option available for me. Please grant me access. Thanks.