Google should not install spyware onto a machine. The Google Earth
API installer also installs a Google Software Update component,
including a LaunchAgent that runs at user login and a LaunchDaemon
that runs AS ROOT when the LaunchAgent triggers it. This is
unacceptable, especially because there is no option to not install it
in the installer. In fact, it isn't even mentioned that that's what
you're installing. This is bad. Very bad. It's spyware.
Furthermore, there's no mention of this in the uninstall
documentation, which means a user can think they've uninstalled
everything Google but in fact still be contacting your servers
unknowingly. I'm going to spread this around so others are aware.
Thanks for being evil, Google.
> Google should not install spyware onto a machine. The Google Earth
> API installer also installs a Google Software Update component,
> including a LaunchAgent that runs at user login and a LaunchDaemon
> that runs AS ROOT when the LaunchAgent triggers it. This is
> unacceptable, especially because there is no option to not install it
> in the installer. In fact, it isn't even mentioned that that's what
> you're installing. This is bad. Very bad. It's spyware.
> Furthermore, there's no mention of this in the uninstall
> documentation, which means a user can think they've uninstalled
> everything Google but in fact still be contacting your servers
> unknowingly. I'm going to spread this around so others are aware.
> Thanks for being evil, Google.
As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced at
http://code.google.com/p/update-engine/ and is in use by several
products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
network security issues.
I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
from the system.
If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
here.
From my point of view its not so much the update mechanism itself* -
which in theory we can choose to accept - or reject, its more the way
its almost installed without the users knowledge (therefore denying
making that decision). Granted many users wont really care, for many
advanced users its extremely annoying.
<drift>
* although I still have a distinct unease with an 'auto update'
process that just downloads updates without the user aware or
concenting - but worse installs them blindly.
I admit I dont know the Mac Installer, but the lack of a GUI and
controls for the Update process on windows is quite unnerving. I have
the process running now, but no idea what its doing - or going to do.
(sorry for the drift I guess its not directly related to the Plugin or
Mac)
</drift>
> As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/and is in use by several
> products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> network security issues.
> I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> from the system.
> If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> here.
> From my point of view its not so much the update mechanism itself* -
> which in theory we can choose to accept - or reject, its more the way
> its almost installed without the users knowledge (therefore denying
> making that decision). Granted many users wont really care, for many
> advanced users its extremely annoying.
> <drift>
> * although I still have a distinct unease with an 'auto update'
> process that just downloads updates without the user aware or
> concenting - but worse installs them blindly.
> I admit I dont know the Mac Installer, but the lack of a GUI and
> controls for the Update process on windows is quite unnerving. I have
> the process running now, but no idea what its doing - or going to do.
> (sorry for the drift I guess its not directly related to the Plugin or
> Mac)
> </drift>
> On Dec 4, 10:03 pm, Roman N wrote:
> > Hi Jeff, Barry,
> > As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> > mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/andis in use by several
> > products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> > Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> > software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> > with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> > network security issues.
> > I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> > incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> > new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> > Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> > Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> > from the system.
> > If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> > here.
The new uninstallation procedure will be posted shortly to the FAQ.
Uninstallation now simply involves downloading the following disk
image and running the uninstaller:
NOTE: This link is temporary. Eventually the uninstaller will be
packaged with the installer disk image.
The uninstaller removes the plugin files and unregisters them from
Google Software Update. As I mentioned earlier, if no other
applications use Google Software Update, it will remove itself after
about a day.
> As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/and is in use by several
> products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> network security issues.
> I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> from the system.
> If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> here.
> We'll look into modifying the wording on the installer splash page to
> clarify this auto update procedure.
I don't see any information (other then source which I am looking over
now) about why a Launch Daemon exist for Google Update Engine and/or
how it ensures (assuming the daemon is used for installing) that the
user knows some application that they have run has registered a ticket
possibly causing an update to take place, possibly installing into a
privileged location.
Makes me a little nervous about a _possible_ attack vector for a
trojan written to use the update engine api getting the ability to
install into privileged locations and/or get a script to run with
privileges (at least without the user knowing). ...not trying to throw
out any FUD it just isn't well documented how the update engine works
in this regard (or I am simply over looking it).
Note this isn't related to Google Earth Brower plugin but the update
engine it makes available on the users system.
> > We'll look into modifying the wording on the installer splash page to
> > clarify this auto update procedure.
> I don't see any information (other then source which I am looking over
> now) about why a Launch Daemon exist for Google Update Engine and/or
> how it ensures (assuming the daemon is used for installing) that the
> user knows some application that they have run has registered a ticket
> possibly causing an update to take place, possibly installing into a
> privileged location.
> Makes me a little nervous about a _possible_ attack vector for a
> trojan written to use the update engine api getting the ability to
> install into privileged locations and/or get a script to run with
> privileges (at least without the user knowing). ...not trying to throw
> out any FUD it just isn't well documented how the update engine works
> in this regard (or I am simply over looking it).
> Note this isn't related to Google Earth Brower plugin but the update
> engine it makes available on the users system.
Yes I know about that page. I did not find an answer to my questions
on any of its pages. If you know of something that answers my
questions please directly link it (I may be over looking something).
Also that page is how I got the source which I haven't had time to
fully grok yet to see if I can answer my own questions.
> As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/and is in use by several
> products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> network security issues.
> I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> from the system.
> If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> here.
Believe or not, there are people who are seriously irritated by
Google's popularity and massive amount of data Google gathers as a
natural result. By running things as root, without asking the user at
first place, you just add more to the paranoia.
You should have listened to John Gruber's comments about the other
Google software (Desktop) and let me remind you, Gruber isn't a
tinfoil hat or a privacy freak.
These days people doesn't want the $400/$1500 software they purchased
with their credit card to contact web for updates yet alone the Google
should do things as root without asking user.
About the updater behaviour: You are doing same thing (behaviour) on
Google Chrome for PC and very important developer figures even
including the MSFT high level employees criticised it. Why try same
thing on OS X too?
I got very irritated when I notice 2 executables trying to connect to
net. Being open source or anything doesn't matter. Just don't connect
to net. You should take Adobe Flash as example while coding plugins.
Nothing outside /Plugins , a basic update mechanism doesn't create
paranioa, running inside plugin itself which will only check updates
while plugin is active.
i just want to voice my extreme discontent as well to this automatic
installer ware. i cannot even begin to comprehend how google thinks
it's ok to have a piece of software on my machine that 1) takes up
space in my top bar (mac osx), 2) serves a pop-up asking to install
some software i dont even use, 3) does this automatically, without my
consent, 4) gives no option for uninstall, and 5) makes it impossible
to kill the thread in "activity monitor". im simply horrified. and
extremely annoyed. i just lost half (!) of my trust in google - it may
seem like a small thing, but it's the breach of such elementary
principles that does the damage; like suddenly discovering that a
respected peer, which you enjoy having daily conversation with, turns
out to slap his kids, or something. it's an abuse of power, and it has
broken my trust, sorry to say...
> > As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> > mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/andis in use by several
> > products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> > Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> > software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> > with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> > network security issues.
> > I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> > incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> > new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> > Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> > Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> > from the system.
> > If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> > here.
> Believe or not, there are people who are seriously irritated by
> Google's popularity and massive amount of data Google gathers as a
> natural result. By running things as root, without asking the user at
> first place, you just add more to the paranoia.
> You should have listened to John Gruber's comments about the other
> Google software (Desktop) and let me remind you, Gruber isn't a
> tinfoil hat or a privacy freak.
> These days people doesn't want the $400/$1500 software they purchased
> with their credit card to contact web for updates yet alone the Google
> should do things as root without asking user.
> About the updater behaviour: You are doing same thing (behaviour) on
> Google Chrome for PC and very important developer figures even
> including the MSFT high level employees criticised it. Why try same
> thing on OS X too?
> I got very irritated when I notice 2 executables trying to connect to
> net. Being open source or anything doesn't matter. Just don't connect
> to net. You should take Adobe Flash as example while coding plugins.
> Nothing outside /Plugins , a basic update mechanism doesn't create
> paranioa, running inside plugin itself which will only check updates
> while plugin is active.
i dont want to uninstall my google earth plugin, i want to remove the
"google software update" altogether! I DONT WANT IT! i dont even know
HOW it got there - can you please tell me that? also, it wants to
install "google talk plugin" - no, i dont want that either. another
point - im no developer, but i follow the things on this page. what
about all those who have no idea of computers at all, how are they
supposed to find out about this? it was only today also, that there
was any info available on the net - last week, nothing. im very
disillusioned with google - whoever made this decision should take a
chill-pill and just relax his overzealous self a bit...
> The new uninstallation procedure will be posted shortly to the FAQ.
> Uninstallation now simply involves downloading the following disk
> image and running the uninstaller:
> NOTE: This link is temporary. Eventually the uninstaller will be
> packaged with the installer disk image.
> The uninstaller removes the plugin files and unregisters them from
> Google Software Update. As I mentioned earlier, if no other
> applications use Google Software Update, it will remove itself after
> about a day.
> - Roman
> On Dec 4, 2:03 pm, Roman N wrote:
> > Hi Jeff, Barry,
> > As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> > mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/andis in use by several
> > products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> > Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> > software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> > with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> > network security issues.
> > I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> > incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> > new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> > Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> > Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> > from the system.
> > If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> > here.
0) We feel that outdated software poses a risk, both to the end-user
and the programmer developing a Google Earth API web site. That is the
purpose for this automatic update mechanism.
1) Google Software Update is installed when you install Google
software that relies on it for patches (i.e. security fixes).
2) You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
(for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
automatically after about a day.
3) The Google Earth Plugin installer does not install other plugins;
you may have installed the Google Talk plugin (for video chat in
Gmail) separately.
4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
that:
(a) Google Software Update is being installed and
(b) why it's being installed.
so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
the scenes.
I hope this provides some more insight and eases any concerns you're
having. If you're specifically worried about your personal privacy or
your computer's security, please take a look at my first post in this
thread, which explains that Google Software Update strictly complies
with our privacy policy and that measures are in place to keep your
computer's security unharmed.
> i dont want to uninstall my google earth plugin, i want to remove the
> "google software update" altogether! I DONT WANT IT! i dont even know
> HOW it got there - can you please tell me that? also, it wants to
> install "google talk plugin" - no, i dont want that either. another
> point - im no developer, but i follow the things on this page. what
> about all those who have no idea of computers at all, how are they
> supposed to find out about this? it was only today also, that there
> was any info available on the net - last week, nothing. im very
> disillusioned with google - whoever made this decision should take a
> chill-pill and just relax his overzealous self a bit...
> take care, and please clarify!
> On Dec 5, 1:28 am, Roman N wrote:
> > The new uninstallation procedure will be posted shortly to the FAQ.
> > Uninstallation now simply involves downloading the following disk
> > image and running the uninstaller:
> > NOTE: This link is temporary. Eventually the uninstaller will be
> > packaged with the installer disk image.
> > The uninstaller removes the plugin files and unregisters them from
> > Google Software Update. As I mentioned earlier, if no other
> > applications use Google Software Update, it will remove itself after
> > about a day.
> > - Roman
> > On Dec 4, 2:03 pm, Roman N wrote:
> > > Hi Jeff, Barry,
> > > As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> > > mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/andisin use by several
> > > products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> > > Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> > > software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> > > with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> > > network security issues.
> > > I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> > > incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> > > new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> > > Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> > > Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> > > from the system.
> > > If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> > > here.
yes, i see the concern about having outdated software, etc. however, i
am far from reassured, and quite frankly, i no longer trust your
company. i have been plagued all week by a google software update pop-
up in my system, which it seems i will have to uninstall your software
(eg. google earth) in order to rid myself of. why then, should i
bother to use your software and not look else-where? the arguments
give by others above are also very valid, it seems to me, and i cannot
see but that google is hurting itself with this kind of "over-
steering" of its users.
anywho, thanks for your response, good luck in the future. i am sorry
to say that my good-will for your company is now gone, but hey, it had
to happen some day, right?
> 0) We feel that outdated software poses a risk, both to the end-user
> and the programmer developing a Google Earth API web site. That is the
> purpose for this automatic update mechanism.
> 1) Google Software Update is installed when you install Google
> software that relies on it for patches (i.e. security fixes).
> 2) You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
> that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
> (for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
> automatically after about a day.
> 3) The Google Earth Plugin installer does not install other plugins;
> you may have installed the Google Talk plugin (for video chat in
> Gmail) separately.
> 4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
> that:
> (a) Google Software Update is being installed and
> (b) why it's being installed.
> so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
> the scenes.
> I hope this provides some more insight and eases any concerns you're
> having. If you're specifically worried about your personal privacy or
> your computer's security, please take a look at my first post in this
> thread, which explains that Google Software Update strictly complies
> with our privacy policy and that measures are in place to keep your
> computer's security unharmed.
> - Roman
> On Dec 10, 4:48 am, knutoletube wrote:
> > i dont want to uninstall my google earth plugin, i want to remove the
> > "google software update" altogether! I DONT WANT IT! i dont even know
> > HOW it got there - can you please tell me that? also, it wants to
> > install "google talk plugin" - no, i dont want that either. another
> > point - im no developer, but i follow the things on this page. what
> > about all those who have no idea of computers at all, how are they
> > supposed to find out about this? it was only today also, that there
> > was any info available on the net - last week, nothing. im very
> > disillusioned with google - whoever made this decision should take a
> > chill-pill and just relax his overzealous self a bit...
> > take care, and please clarify!
> > On Dec 5, 1:28 am, Roman N wrote:
> > > The new uninstallation procedure will be posted shortly to the FAQ.
> > > Uninstallation now simply involves downloading the following disk
> > > image and running the uninstaller:
> > > NOTE: This link is temporary. Eventually the uninstaller will be
> > > packaged with the installer disk image.
> > > The uninstaller removes the plugin files and unregisters them from
> > > Google Software Update. As I mentioned earlier, if no other
> > > applications use Google Software Update, it will remove itself after
> > > about a day.
> > > - Roman
> > > On Dec 4, 2:03 pm, Roman N wrote:
> > > > Hi Jeff, Barry,
> > > > As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> > > > mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/andisinuse by several
> > > > products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> > > > Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> > > > software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> > > > with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> > > > network security issues.
> > > > I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> > > > incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> > > > new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> > > > Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> > > > Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> > > > from the system.
> > > > If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> > > > here.
I too would like to state that it is NOT OK to silently install daemon
process's (or any other software frankly).
It is NOT OK to make this a dependancy of your software & make it
virtually uninstallable by the end user.
How dare you tell me it will 'go away in a day or so'.
My god what a casual attitude!
This is what drove people from the Windows platform because it is a
massive security risk.
I have uninstalled ALL google products & will not re-install until i
can verify that they have been laundered of this.
You keep your windows world attitudes mr google developers.
You are NOT doing this to my Mac!
> 0) We feel that outdated software poses a risk, both to the end-user
> and the programmer developing a Google Earth API web site. That is the
> purpose for this automatic update mechanism.
> 1) Google Software Update is installed when you install Google
> software that relies on it for patches (i.e. security fixes).
> 2) You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
> that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
> (for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
> automatically after about a day.
> 3) The Google Earth Plugin installer does not install other plugins;
> you may have installed the Google Talk plugin (for video chat in
> Gmail) separately.
> 4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
> that:
> (a) Google Software Update is being installed and
> (b) why it's being installed.
> so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
> the scenes.
> I hope this provides some more insight and eases any concerns you're
> having. If you're specifically worried about your personal privacy or
> your computer's security, please take a look at my first post in this
> thread, which explains that Google Software Update strictly complies
> with our privacy policy and that measures are in place to keep your
> computer's security unharmed.
> - Roman
> On Dec 10, 4:48 am, knutoletube wrote:
> > i dont want to uninstall my google earth plugin, i want to remove the
> > "google software update" altogether! I DONT WANT IT! i dont even know
> > HOW it got there - can you please tell me that? also, it wants to
> > install "google talk plugin" - no, i dont want that either. another
> > point - im no developer, but i follow the things on this page. what
> > about all those who have no idea of computers at all, how are they
> > supposed to find out about this? it was only today also, that there
> > was any info available on the net - last week, nothing. im very
> > disillusioned with google - whoever made this decision should take a
> > chill-pill and just relax his overzealous self a bit...
> > take care, and please clarify!
> > On Dec 5, 1:28 am, Roman N wrote:
> > > The new uninstallation procedure will be posted shortly to the FAQ.
> > > Uninstallation now simply involves downloading the following disk
> > > image and running the uninstaller:
> > > NOTE: This link is temporary. Eventually the uninstaller will be
> > > packaged with the installer disk image.
> > > The uninstaller removes the plugin files and unregisters them from
> > > Google Software Update. As I mentioned earlier, if no other
> > > applications use Google Software Update, it will remove itself after
> > > about a day.
> > > - Roman
> > > On Dec 4, 2:03 pm, Roman N wrote:
> > > > Hi Jeff, Barry,
> > > > As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> > > > mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/andisinuse by several
> > > > products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> > > > Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> > > > software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> > > > with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> > > > network security issues.
> > > > I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> > > > incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> > > > new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> > > > Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> > > > Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> > > > from the system.
> > > > If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> > > > here.
I appreciate that Google provides updates to their software. As a
software developer I know how important this is.
What I don't appreciate is software daemons being installed without my
knowledge, running as root, with no option to disable it, and that
pops up even when I'm not running any Google software. (Note that in
my case I have not installed the Google Earth Browser plug in, but
Picasa for OS X - the updater is the same, though)
Most other software updaters only run when you run the applications to
be updated.
I know that on Windows in the early 2000s it was "popular" for silly
programs you never run (like RealPlayer) to put a little icon in the
status bar and constantly do update checks - that doesn't mean that
you should do it now in 2008 in OS X.
Although I might also be annoyed by other programs like NeoOffice
telling me about updates every time I start it, but that's just
because I don't run it that often. If it popped up every day I would
be very annoyed and uninstall it (well, I guess I need a reinstall to
be sure), just like I now have zeroed out parts of the Google updater
binary.
I highly recommend Google to change their update software immediately
unless they want their users to loose whatever tiny piece of trust
that is still left on the "Do no evil" mantra..
> 0) We feel that outdated software poses a risk, both to the end-user
> and the programmer developing a Google Earth API web site. That is the
> purpose for this automatic update mechanism.
> 1) Google Software Update is installed when you install Google
> software that relies on it for patches (i.e. security fixes).
> 2) You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
> that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
> (for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
> automatically after about a day.
> 3) The Google Earth Plugin installer does not install other plugins;
> you may have installed the Google Talk plugin (for video chat in
> Gmail) separately.
> 4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
> that:
> (a) Google Software Update is being installed and
> (b) why it's being installed.
> so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
> the scenes.
> I hope this provides some more insight and eases any concerns you're
> having. If you're specifically worried about your personal privacy or
> your computer's security, please take a look at my first post in this
> thread, which explains that Google Software Update strictly complies
> with our privacy policy and that measures are in place to keep your
> computer's security unharmed.
> - Roman
> On Dec 10, 4:48 am, knutoletube wrote:
> > i dont want to uninstall my google earth plugin, i want to remove the
> > "google software update" altogether! I DONT WANT IT! i dont even know
> > HOW it got there - can you please tell me that? also, it wants to
> > install "google talk plugin" - no, i dont want that either. another
> > point - im no developer, but i follow the things on this page. what
> > about all those who have no idea of computers at all, how are they
> > supposed to find out about this? it was only today also, that there
> > was any info available on the net - last week, nothing. im very
> > disillusioned with google - whoever made this decision should take a
> > chill-pill and just relax his overzealous self a bit...
> > take care, and please clarify!
> > On Dec 5, 1:28 am, Roman N wrote:
> > > The new uninstallation procedure will be posted shortly to the FAQ.
> > > Uninstallation now simply involves downloading the following disk
> > > image and running the uninstaller:
> > > NOTE: This link is temporary. Eventually the uninstaller will be
> > > packaged with the installer disk image.
> > > The uninstaller removes the plugin files and unregisters them from
> > > Google Software Update. As I mentioned earlier, if no other
> > > applications use Google Software Update, it will remove itself after
> > > about a day.
> > > - Roman
> > > On Dec 4, 2:03 pm, Roman N wrote:
> > > > Hi Jeff, Barry,
> > > > As David pointed out in the blog comments, the software update
> > > > mechanism (Google Software Update) is almost entirely open sourced athttp://code.google.com/p/update-engine/andisinuse by several
> > > > products, including the Google Talk Plugin, Google App Engine
> > > > Launcher, etc. No personal user information is exchanged at all; the
> > > > software strictly adheres to Google's privacy policy. Communication
> > > > with Google servers is also done over SSL to mitigate potential
> > > > network security issues.
> > > > I do agree that the documentation for plugin uninstallation is
> > > > incomplete with regards to this update mechanism. We will be posting a
> > > > new uninstallation procedure that unregisters the Earth plugin from
> > > > Google Software Update. Once all applications are unregistered from
> > > > Google Software Update, it waits for about one day to remove itself
> > > > from the system.
> > > > If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to post them
> > > > here.
OK, it has been over a month now and the holidays have passed. Would
Google please update us on what the status of this issue is?
Personally I will not be happy with anything short of an option to opt
out of installing the software update daemon and will not install any
Google software until that is implemented but I see there is an
updated version of Picassa that I'm interested in so could we please
hear what the current situation is?
Is it possible to have Picassa installed without this software update
agent?
Thanks in advance for your reply!
On Dec 14 2008, 10:25 am, "[email address]" wrote:
> I'm not happy about this software update daemon being slipped in under
> my nose either. This is not the sort of thing I expect from Google and
> even if you rush to do the right thing now the fact that you did it in
> the first place shows that the ideas at Google about what is OK to do
> to a person's computer are changing. I mean not only does it done
> completely without disclosure, it installs a daemon that RUNS AS ROOT,
> but it also tries to contact your update servers 6 - 8 times a day. If
> I didn't use Little Snitch to monitor my outgoing connections I would
> have never known. Consider Google moved from my "Trusted Nice Guy
> Devs" list to my "Keep An Eye on These Devs" list.
> On Dec 12, 7:46 am, Roman N wrote:
> > You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
> > that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
> > (for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
> > automatically after about a day.
> So I can not have Picassa Uploaders installed without this software
> update daemon / agent plugin? I'm forced to take one with the other?
> > 4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
> > that:
> > (a) Google Software Update is being installed and
> > (b) why it's being installed.
> > so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
> > the scenes.
> How about an option to not install the software updater daemon at all?
> Plenty of us check the software tracking sites every few days and keep
> our software updated manually tyvm. If I choose to assume the "risk"
> you mentioned that outdated software poses why will you not let me?
The simple fact that we have no choice but to let Google run a
background process whenever it pleases is unacceptable.
In my Applications folder right now I have approximately 150
programmes, most of them from different developers. Most of them have
auto-update mechanisms that check for updates when the programmes are
run. Simple, no mess, no background processes. Now, imagine if every
one of these developers decided that their software was important
enough to justify a background process that would run and auto-update
even when the application was not open. I'd be lucky if my Mac even
ran with all those update processes, and I certainly wouldn't get any
work done with them all popping up notifications constantly.
This is absolutely arrogant — there is no reason your software needs
to be updating itself when it is not in use — you can very easily
check for, notify, and download updates when your application is run
like most every other Mac app. It does not matter how much information
is transmitted or whether the user is informed or not (well, it does,
but it's not the core of the issue). Having a mandatory background
process that is in no way essential to the proper functioning of your
programme is completely unacceptable, and, as stated, if followed by
other developers would make all our computers unusable.
> 0) We feel that outdated software poses a risk, both to the end-user
> and the programmer developing a Google Earth API web site. That is the
> purpose for this automatic update mechanism.
> 1) Google Software Update is installed when you install Google
> software that relies on it for patches (i.e. security fixes).
> 2) You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
> that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
> (for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
> automatically after about a day.
> 3) The Google Earth Plugin installer does not install other plugins;
> you may have installed the Google Talk plugin (for video chat in
> Gmail) separately.
> 4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
> that:
> (a) Google Software Update is being installed and
> (b) why it's being installed.
> so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
> the scenes.
> I hope this provides some more insight and eases any concerns you're
> having. If you're specifically worried about your personal privacy or
> your computer's security, please take a look at my first post in this
> thread, which explains that Google Software Update strictly complies
> with our privacy policy and that measures are in place to keep your
> computer's security unharmed.
The problem is the small amount of people who are concerned are hardly
a significant proportion of users, and at the end of the day it doesnt
actully stop many poeple downloading.
For many users auto updaters are probably not a bad thing, and they
wont notice yet another process slowing down the computer (its true
the updater takes next to no resources - or it shouldnt anyway! but
every little helps (or doesnt!) )
... its just that most users probably dont know enough to make an
informed decision, they just want the software, so end up blindly
installing another application.
> The simple fact that we have no choice but to let Google run a
> background process whenever it pleases is unacceptable.
> In my Applications folder right now I have approximately 150
> programmes, most of them from different developers. Most of them have
> auto-update mechanisms that check for updates when the programmes are
> run. Simple, no mess, no background processes. Now, imagine if every
> one of these developers decided that their software was important
> enough to justify a background process that would run and auto-update
> even when the application was not open. I'd be lucky if my Mac even
> ran with all those update processes, and I certainly wouldn't get any
> work done with them all popping up notifications constantly.
> This is absolutely arrogant — there is no reason your software needs
> to be updating itself when it is not in use — you can very easily
> check for, notify, and download updates when your application is run
> like most every other Mac app. It does not matter how much information
> is transmitted or whether the user is informed or not (well, it does,
> but it's not the core of the issue). Having a mandatory background
> process that is in no way essential to the proper functioning of your
> programme is completely unacceptable, and, as stated, if followed by
> other developers would make all our computers unusable.
> On Dec 11 2008, 4:46 pm, Roman N wrote:
> > Hi knutoletube,
> > A few points:
> > 0) We feel that outdated software poses a risk, both to the end-user
> > and the programmer developing a Google Earth API web site. That is the
> > purpose for this automatic update mechanism.
> > 1) Google Software Update is installed when you install Google
> > software that relies on it for patches (i.e. security fixes).
> > 2) You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
> > that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
> > (for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
> > automatically after about a day.
> > 3) The Google Earth Plugin installer does not install other plugins;
> > you may have installed the Google Talk plugin (for video chat in
> > Gmail) separately.
> > 4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
> > that:
> > (a) Google Software Update is being installed and
> > (b) why it's being installed.
> > so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
> > the scenes.
> > I hope this provides some more insight and eases any concerns you're
> > having. If you're specifically worried about your personal privacy or
> > your computer's security, please take a look at my first post in this
> > thread, which explains that Google Software Update strictly complies
> > with our privacy policy and that measures are in place to keep your
> > computer's security unharmed.
I apologize in advance for 'going German' on someone from the plex,
but you're Google. Not Sony, and certainly not Microsoft. This is
totally UNacceptable.
"It will then remove itself automatically after about a day. "
In a word: NO.
So, I'm sorry to say, but this broken record mentality reeks of a
company who we'd all rather NOT do business with:
Microsoft.
Furthermore, you should disclose where EVERY file is installer and not
even ATTEMPT to use such irresponsible language as 'after about a
day.' like a computer is some kind of car or Rube Goldberg device.
I don't think ANY security professional or power user would be
assuaged by this. Sorry.
There's no reason why GEarth can't check for updates *in its own
runtime*.
If you're making such drastic changes to the Google Earth API that you
feel the need to push patches to the user, then you might consider a
less 'extreme' form of programming. Like having a build and release
schedule the way companies 'used' to release software.
I for one expect to get PAID for testing builds. NOT to have them
pushed to my production machine.
To the rest of the users out there: This is a good time to buy a
license to Little Snitch and learn what ACLs are.
-Leo [doesn't use Google Desktop for this reason, will now drop GEarth
like a hot potato]
> 0) We feel that outdated software poses a risk, both to the end-user
> and the programmer developing a Google Earth API web site. That is the
> purpose for this automatic update mechanism.
> 1) Google Software Update is installed when you install Google
> software that relies on it for patches (i.e. security fixes).
> 2) You can remove Google Software Update by uninstalling all software
> that uses it, such as the Google Earth Plugin, the Google Talk Plugin
> (for video chat in Gmail), etc. It will then remove itself
> automatically after about a day.
> 3) The Google Earth Plugin installer does not install other plugins;
> you may have installed the Google Talk plugin (for video chat in
> Gmail) separately.
> 4) We are working on modifying the plugin installer wording to clarify
> that:
> (a) Google Software Update is being installed and
> (b) why it's being installed.
> so that end users are better informed about what's going on behind
> the scenes.
> I hope this provides some more insight and eases any concerns you're
> having. If you're specifically worried about your personal privacy or
> your computer's security, please take a look at my first post in this
> thread, which explains that Google Software Update strictly complies
> with our privacy policy and that measures are in place to keep your
> computer's security unharmed.
I was also very surprised today to see the background updating of
several of my google applications without opening or requesting their
update. I wouldn't even have seen them mount if growl didn't notify
me.
I'd like to know the name of the processes in question so that I can
block them using little snitch. I'll keep the apps (google earth and
notifier are the ones I use, although I also saw google gears update
itself silently in the background too).
If you can tell me the names of the processes, daemons etc, I'll block
or delete them. thanks
> One more point, *trying to be constructive* to the plex.folk:
> Please understand that some of us live out in the realm of VERY SLOW
> and/or strictly quota'd so-called 'broadband'. Have you considered
> folks who-
> Have to live with a tethered laptop? Quota are usually around 5 gigs
> every rolling 30 days.
> Have to live with Satcom? Depending on the provider, either 7.5 gigs
> every rolling 30 days or 200 megs in a rolling 24 hour period.
> And these ISPs [Cricket, ATT, Hughes] will count EVERY LAST syn & ack.
> And do.
> I think that this 'always on, always updating' way of doing things is
> going to run a number of your users up against the TOS of their
> respective ISPs.
> Did I mention that this is a bad idea on a number of levels?
If we are in such a minority (people who object to this cunning plan),
publish how we remove the daemon. Everyone else can keep it. You'll
still have your thing on 99.9% of Macs out there to attempt to help
your world dominance quest.
I'm looking forward to this story breaking more generally in the tech
press. What do you think they'll say? Conspiracy theories are much
loved - this one could run and run!
