an idea to support smaller coaches

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fasterroadie

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Dec 11, 2009, 11:25:37 AM12/11/09
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and maybe larger ones too!

So,

I have an idea that would help GC grow within the group of smaller coaches/training partners/organizations.

It would be great to make GC have the ability to communicate with an athlete, send workouts, get updates and post ride files.

But without going into a hosted, subscription model that a lot of vendors offer and that is expensive for a starting coach.

I think I have a better solution. 

Why not integrate something like this file and workout transfer into GC.  A non-hosted asyncronous file sharing...



Here is the workflow I was thinking would work. It would be new code as well as impacting the way some code works already (manual entry for ex) but all in all I suspect it is pretty low impact to GC code.

Coach gets new client.

Opens some webspace (ftp, dropbox, s3 of some other free hosting service etc) account for that client, adds info to GC presences.

Then coach creates manual entries for training planning.
- the manual entries would have to have a notes field for describing the workout.
- the manual entries would have to be able to be populated from templates or from prior manual entries.
- and manual entries would have to have the ability to combine with real/downloaded workouts after completion.

Coach pushes websync button for client.  GC uploads latest files.

Then coach emails client with webspace login info.

Client adds webspace info into GC preferences.

Client pushes websync button and GC grabs latest manual entries for client.

Automagically or client selects which files to import.

Client does workout.  Downloads data for each day and merges downloads with manual entry.  Add personal notes and saves.  Hits websync and the new files replace the old ones on server to coach.

Next time coach is in GC and online, he websyncs for newer files and pulls them down and has the updated, data containing files.

Webspace would never really have more than 2-4 weeks worth of data which is NOTHING in the grand size of things.

Whaddya think?

Something to consider in making a GC file format....

I would like to write the code, but it is well beyond my ability...

Just a thought.

Mark Liversedge

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Dec 11, 2009, 1:57:04 PM12/11/09
to golden-cheetah-users
I like your thinking, but why not just email it?

Mark Liversedge

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Dec 11, 2009, 2:04:26 PM12/11/09
to golden-cheetah-users
Oops my message was mean't to say:

Why not use email.

By letting the athlete define the coaches email address and have GC
automatically email new workouts to the coach? Similarly the coach can
do the same and have workouts sent to the athlete.

Then at each end all they need to do is drag and drop from their email
client into Golden Cheetah?

Makes it a lot simpler, no?

Regards,
Mark

Sean Rhea

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Dec 11, 2009, 2:06:21 PM12/11/09
to Mark Liversedge, golden-cheetah-users
I can see the workflow being easier with dropbox.com if:

1. We add a menu item, "Upload workouts", that uploads all the latest
workouts to dropbox.com, maybe the last weeks worth, if they're not
already there.

2. We add another menu item, "Check for new workouts", that does a
corresponding pull from dropbox.com.

Then when a coach is looking at a rider's data, he/she can just click,
"Check for new workouts", rather than go sorting through email.

Sean





On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Mark Liversedge <liver...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like your thinking, but why not just email it?
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
> golden-che...@googlegroups.com
> http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en



--
"I refuse to accept the idea that the ‘isness’ of man’s present nature
makes him morally incapable of reaching up for the eternal ‘oughtness’
that forever confronts him." --MLK

Eric Murray

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Dec 11, 2009, 2:31:56 PM12/11/09
to fasterroadie, golden-che...@googlegroups.com


A good start would be a way to plan workouts in advance.

That would be useful for people who are self-coached, and for
people who are coached but who don't get an assigned workout every day.

Someone sent in a proposal for one way to do that, which involved
setting LTS/CTL targets (its waht he does as a coach). That's
useful but for many riders some way to prescribe intensity
(i.e. 2x20s or tabatas or whatver) would be useful.

It seems like there are a lot of ways to describe a workout
and it might be difficult to allow specificication of that in a gerneric
but still useful way.

I think trainingpeaks' coaching site just has freeform descriptions
and any results tracking is done manually.

Eric

Tom Weichmann

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Dec 11, 2009, 5:01:53 PM12/11/09
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I think that training peaks exports training as iCal. They have
recently changed their website and I can't figure out how to do that
now, but I know I would like to be able to import training peaks
training (I use their virtual coach). Maybe it would make sense to use
something standard like iCal to exchange data?

Not sure, just throwing it out there.

Tom

Robert Burgholzer

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Dec 11, 2009, 6:44:56 PM12/11/09
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My thought is that the optimal online data storage device could be a relational database, or a relational database with flat csv file hybrid.  The relational database would provide the scalability and ease of queryability for sorting out all the mappings between coaches, athletes, workouts prescribed, workouts performed, messages, and time series data.

The only difference between the hybrid and pure RDBMS version, would be that one could store the time series results data, in a CSV (or in a native export format that GC could read), zipped for optimal storage size, and related to the database records by a pointer to the file.

Two good open source databases PostgreSQL, and MySQL would be easy options.

r.b.

Justin F. Knotzke

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Dec 11, 2009, 6:56:13 PM12/11/09
to Robert Burgholzer, golden-che...@googlegroups.com


2009/12/11 Robert Burgholzer <rbur...@vt.edu>


Two good open source databases PostgreSQL, and MySQL would be easy options.


   Did someone just say relational database ?

   J ;-) 

fasterroadie

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Dec 11, 2009, 7:04:46 PM12/11/09
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My intention was KISS....

The idea of a free, online hosting service with maybe a few fields to access (url, user, pass) would make it portable and light.

Require little or no hosting and no real overhead.

If someone wants to tackle a full on db driven solution, yee - haw.

But I thought some simple way to push files back and forth would be nice.

I did cross the idea of email, but when you do it for more than one person it becomes cumbersome and things get missed/forgotten.

Whereas this could be automagic, if you have this enabled in GC, then there could be a prompt on app close along the lines of:

"you have changed <x # of files>, would you like to share them with your <coach/athlete/friend>?"

Just spitballing...



--

Spencer Beckett

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Dec 11, 2009, 7:54:27 PM12/11/09
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Speaking of smaller coaches and training plan development...

I threw this together over the last few months as I wanted to learn how
to write a desktop utility that would help me plan out my training for
the year. It uses a database to house the data.

If you want to play around with a Mac or Windows version it can be found
here (I still have to set up a Linux machine so that I can test a Linux
version). There are a few people testing it and I don't get many
complaints. I do not, however, know whether that is a good or bad thing...

ftp://205.178.145.65:21

UserName: cpbasicbeta
PassWord: CPBasic2009

When it is finished I plan on releasing it to the Wattage Community as
Freeware.

Spencer




Justin F. Knotzke wrote:
>
>
> 2009/12/11 Robert Burgholzer <rbur...@vt.edu <mailto:rbur...@vt.edu>>
>
>
> Two good open source databases PostgreSQL, and MySQL would be easy
> options.
>
>
> Did someone just say relational database ?
>
> J ;-)
>
CPBasic_v0.90_MainScreen.png

Julian

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Dec 14, 2009, 5:01:38 PM12/14/09
to golden-cheetah-users
Whoa.

I will be downloading this tonight and playing with it heavily!!

I built the same thing using Excel a few years ago and had the chart
also show the actual data (what I actually completed and manually
entered from WKO+ as opposed to the planned workout.) so I could see
if I was following the plan and re-tool it if I missed workouts, got
sick, etc...

I used it with great success with a few friends and lamented that none
of use were programmers (we do a lot of web app dev) as we
brainstormed a "wizard" so-to-speak that would help an athlete peak by
reverse planning a season... Essentially our idea was that it seemed
ridiculous that so many cat 4/5 riders (and 3,2,1's) were paying so
much for someone else to email them a fairly cookie-cutter training
program when the info was widely available...

I'm super excited to play with this!

-Julian

On Dec 11, 6:54 pm, Spencer Beckett <sb-ri...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Speaking of smaller coaches and training plan development...
>
> I threw this together over the last few months as I wanted to learn how
> to write a desktop utility that would help me plan out my training for
> the year. It uses a database to house the data.
>
> If you want to play around with a Mac or Windows version it can be found
> here (I still have to set up a Linux machine so that I can test a Linux
> version). There are a few people testing it and I don't get many
> complaints. I do not, however, know whether that is a good or bad thing...
>
>    ftp://205.178.145.65:21
>
>     UserName: cpbasicbeta
>     PassWord: CPBasic2009
>
> When it is finished I plan on releasing it to the Wattage Community as
> Freeware.
>
> Spencer
>
>
>
> Justin F. Knotzke wrote:
>
> > 2009/12/11 Robert Burgholzer <rburg...@vt.edu <mailto:rburg...@vt.edu>>
>
> >     Two good open source databases PostgreSQL, and MySQL would be easy
> >     options.
>
> >    Did someone just say relational database ?
>
> >    J ;-)
>
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
> > golden-che...@googlegroups.com
> >http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en
>
>
>
>  CPBasic_v0.90_MainScreen.png
> 363KViewDownload

Julian

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Dec 15, 2009, 8:24:39 AM12/15/09
to golden-cheetah-users
So I downloaded the program and I have to say it's pretty nice. The
only thing I have noticed- and it may be that I'm not doing something
correctly is that when I add the workout in the details box none of
the metrics are calculated- that is, the Stress and Intensity are
blank... Am I supposed to manually enter these values or are they
supposed to auto calculate.

In the Excel workbook I assembled the TSS and Intensity values are
auto calculated and as such it's stupid simple to build a workout...

The Excel book can be found here with all the formulas etc...
http://www.binaryoven.com/trainingv3.xls

Perhaps the CPBasic program can be modified to achieve auto Stress/
Intensity calculation and then be built into GC so that the planned
PMC charts against the actual PMC...

BTW, in 1.2 I don't see a PMC but in some of the videos showing some
tests of what will become VirtualCheetah I do see a PMC.. is this a
beta feature?

-Julian


On Dec 14, 4:01 pm, Julian <julian.baumgart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whoa.
>
> I will be downloading this tonight and playing with it heavily!!
>
> I built the same thing using Excel a few years ago and had the chart
> also show the actual data (what I actually completed and manually
> entered from WKO+ as opposed to the planned workout.) so I could see
> if I was following the plan and re-tool it if I missed workouts, got
> sick, etc...
>
> I used it with great success with a few friends and lamented that none
> of use were programmers (we do a lot of web app dev) as we
> brainstormed a "wizard" so-to-speak that would help an athlete peak by
> reverse planning a season... Essentially our idea was that it seemed
> ridiculous that so many cat 4/5 riders (and 3,2,1's) were paying so
> much for someone else to email them a fairly cookie-cutter training
> program when the info was widely available...
>
> I'm super excited to play with this!
>
> -Julian
>
> On Dec 11, 6:54 pm, Spencer Beckett <sb-ri...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Speaking of smaller coaches and training plan development...
>
> > I threw this together over the last few months as I wanted to learn how
> > to write a desktop utility that would help me plan out my training for
> > the year. It uses a database to house the data.
>
> > If you want to play around with a Mac or Windows version it can be found
> > here (I still have to set up a Linux machine so that I can test a Linux
> > version). There are a few people testing it and I don't get many
> > complaints. I do not, however, know whether that is a good or bad thing...
>
> >    ftp://205.178.145.65:21
>
> >     UserName: cpbasicbeta
> >     PassWord: CPBasic2009
>
> > When it is finished I plan on releasing it to the Wattage Community as
> > Freeware.
>
> > Spencer
>
> > Justin F. Knotzke wrote:
>
> > > 2009/12/11 Robert Burgholzer <rburg...@vt.edu <mailto:rburg...@vt.edu>>
>
> > >     Two good open source databases PostgreSQL, and MySQL would be easy
> > >     options.
>
> > >    Did someone just say relational database ?
>
> > >    J ;-)
>
> > > --
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
> > > golden-che...@googlegroups.com
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en
>
> >  CPBasic_v0.90_MainScreen.png
> > 363KViewDownload

On Dec 11, 6:54 pm, Spencer Beckett <sb-ri...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Speaking of smaller coaches and training plan development...
>
> I threw this together over the last few months as I wanted to learn how
> to write a desktop utility that would help me plan out my training for
> the year. It uses a database to house the data.
>
> If you want to play around with a Mac or Windows version it can be found
> here (I still have to set up a Linux machine so that I can test a Linux
> version). There are a few people testing it and I don't get many
> complaints. I do not, however, know whether that is a good or bad thing...
>
>    ftp://205.178.145.65:21
>
>     UserName: cpbasicbeta
>     PassWord: CPBasic2009
>
> When it is finished I plan on releasing it to the Wattage Community as
> Freeware.
>
> Spencer
>
>
>
> Justin F. Knotzke wrote:
>
> > 2009/12/11 Robert Burgholzer <rburg...@vt.edu <mailto:rburg...@vt.edu>>
>
> >     Two good open source databases PostgreSQL, and MySQL would be easy
> >     options.
>
> >    Did someone just say relational database ?
>
> >    J ;-)
>
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
> > golden-che...@googlegroups.com
> >http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en
>
>
>
>  CPBasic_v0.90_MainScreen.png
> 363KViewDownload

Sean Rhea

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Dec 15, 2009, 9:27:24 AM12/15/09
to Julian, Robert Carlsen, golden-cheetah-users
Julian,

Glad you like it! The PM chart isn't in the release version yet.
You'll need to get a beta build. Maybe Rob Carlsen can build you one?
To get BikeScore to show up, you need to enter your CP/FTP using the
Preferences dialog.

Sean

Julian

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Dec 15, 2009, 9:55:38 AM12/15/09
to golden-cheetah-users
Hey Sean-

I LOVE GC.

When I was referring to not seeing any metrics I meant to say that in
CPBasic I wasn't seeing any metrics. GC works brilliantly.

Now, time to learn how to build from the code... :)

-J

Jamie Kimberley

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Dec 15, 2009, 9:59:12 AM12/15/09
to Julian, golden-cheetah-users
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009, Julian wrote:

> Hey Sean-
>
> I LOVE GC.
>
> When I was referring to not seeing any metrics I meant to say that in
> CPBasic I wasn't seeing any metrics. GC works brilliantly.
>
> Now, time to learn how to build from the code... :)
>
> -J

I think many people (including non programmers like me) have had
good luck following the developers guide to get the latest source
build.
http://goldencheetah.org/developers-guide.html

Macports handles the dependencies that you need so it make things
really easy.

hit us up if you have any problems/questions.

Jamie


"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just
potatoes."--Douglas Adams
__________________
Jamie Kimberley
Postdoctoral Fellow
Department of Mechanical Engineering
The Johns Hopkins University
Office: 410.516.5162
Mobile: 217.621.8272
Fax: 410.516.4316
E-Mail:jamie.k...@jhu.edu

Fernando Maldonado

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Dec 15, 2009, 9:13:11 PM12/15/09
to golden-cheetah-users
I'm getting the following error on startup, any suggestions?
Picture0001.png
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