Есть ли тут русские программисты?

[goog...@gmail.com]

Есть ли тут русские программисты?

[Kostarev Ilya]

Да

-- 
Kostarev Ilya

On 2 Apr 2015 at 15:32:36, goog...@gmail.com (goog...@gmail.com) wrote:

Есть ли тут русские программисты?

--

[Sokolov Yura]

Конечно :)

четверг, 2 апреля 2015 г., 15:32:43 UTC+3 пользователь Ivan Gulaev написал:

[Dmitri Shelenin]

Спрашиваешь!

[Rob Pike]

Да!

-rob

[andrey mirtchovski]

> Да!

Да нет!

[Konstantin Khomoutov]

On Thu, 2 Apr 2015 05:30:35 -0700 (PDT)
goog...@gmail.com wrote:

> Есть ли тут русские программисты?

Существует отдельный список рассылки для русскоговорящих программистов
на Go [1]. На русском следует писать туда; языком этой конференции
является английский.

1. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/golang-ru

[Milan P. Stanic]

On Thu, 2015-04-02 at 09:10, Rob Pike wrote:
> Да!

Whoa, Командир говорит по русски ;)
+1

[Sokolov Yura]

четверг, 2 апреля 2015 г., 19:10:59 UTC+3 пользователь Rob 'Commander' Pike написал:

Да!

-rob

Офигеть! Роб Пайк!!!! Ты не шутишь?

[Michael Jones]

Роб знает все.

--

Michael T. Jones | Chief Technology Advocate, Google  | m...@google.com |  +1 650-335-5765

[Nelo Mitranim]

This is rather disturbing. Please stick to English.

[parais...@gmail.com]

The thread is basically asking if there are go programmers who speak / are russians. Could have been asked in english though.

[Davin Hills]

Disturbing? English isn't the only language in the world. When I have to talk to French business associates I ask in English and hope someone speaks English. Just someone reaching out for help in the only language they know...

[Marvin Renich]

* Davin Hills <dsh...@gmail.com> [150403 21:26]:

> On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 12:51:57 AM UTC-5, Nelo Mitranim wrote:
> >
> > This is rather disturbing. Please stick to English.
> >
> Disturbing? English isn't the only language in the world. When I have to
> talk to French business associates I ask in English and hope someone speaks
> English. Just someone reaching out for help in the only language they
> know...

Whether the list has specified English as the official language or not,
a long-time precedent of using English on this list has created the
expectation that this is the norm for this list.

What is disturbing is not that a different language was used on the
list, but that a substantial conversation continued for a period of
almost 8 hours without anyone offering to translate or suggesting to the
OP to use golang-ru instead.

The purpose of a mailing list is to allow all subscribers to learn from,
and if desired participate in, the discussions taking place. When a
discussion takes place in a language that cannot be understood by many
of the subscribers, it defeats the purpose of the list. This is simply
rude (poor netiquette).

The proper response, in my opinion, would have been for a list member to
direct the OP to the golang-ru list and to give an English synopsis of
the message and response. If the original question can be answered
easily, answering it is certainly appropriate, but in both the original
language and English, so the entire list can benefit.

...Marvin

[andrey mirtchovski]

> What is disturbing is not that a different language was used on the
> list, but that a substantial conversation continued for a period of
> almost 8 hours without anyone offering to translate or suggesting to the
> OP to use golang-ru instead.

and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we can't have nice things.

[Robert Melton]

On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Marvin Renich <mr...@renich.org> wrote:

What is disturbing is not that a different language was used on the
list, but that a substantial conversation continued for a period of
almost 8 hours without anyone offering to translate or suggesting to the
OP to use golang-ru instead.

First of all, translating stuff yourself isn't terribly challenging these days -- I was mildly interested so I translated the posts for myself (took seconds): https://translate.google.com/ -- and "oh my gosh!" we didn't answer a question for an entire 8 hours, that is nearly an entire working day!  You must be absolutely furious about posts that have lingered for days (or permanently) without reply.  Since we are all paid for this, just put in a formal complaint with our "mailing list supervisor", and (s)he will come down on us like a ton of bricks (probably dock our pay too) and I am certain we will learn our lesson.

The purpose of a mailing list is to allow all subscribers to learn from,
and if desired participate in, the discussions taking place.  When a
discussion takes place in a language that cannot be understood by many
of the subscribers, it defeats the purpose of the list.  This is simply
rude (poor netiquette).

*sigh* the post was trivial and obviously not some profound conversation, and you could (as I did) translate it yourself in seconds.  It did no harm to the list, we aren't falling apart at the seams.  If it became an issue, the moderators are capable adults, I am certain that could find their way to a solution.  Mountains out of molehills and all that... seems like nothing more than a little light hearted fun and an excuse to use a translation service.

 

The proper response, in my opinion, would have been for a list member to
direct the OP to the golang-ru list

Which happened, in under 8 hours -- I think that is fairly impressive!

 

... and to give an English synopsis of

the message and response.  If the original question can be answered
easily, answering it is certainly appropriate, but in both the original
language and English, so the entire list can benefit.

... since you won't translate it yourself it seems like, I guess you will have to trust me when I say you didn't miss anything profound or illuminating (or I am tricking you, and you missed the most mind-blowing thing in Go history!)

--

Robert Melton | http://robertmelton.com

[Benjamin Measures]

> and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we can't have nice things.

+1

[andrewc...@gmail.com]

The russians are coming, run for the hills... The joke was that people who probably don't speak much Russian are replying in Russian.
Just ignore it if you don't care to paste it into Google translate, or didn't take basic Russian lessons. This isn't a plot to take over the whole mailing list.

The posts are just asking if there are Russian programmers here, and others said things like yes and of course. Then someone asked if Rob really knew Russian.

[Rob Pike]

нет.

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[Marvin Renich]

* andrey mirtchovski <mirtc...@gmail.com> [150404 22:09]:

I was not rude, and I gave a specific reason why I believed it was
inappropriate to have a conversation in a different language on the
mailing list. My criticism was constructive and based on
long-established netiquette. Your response was neither constructive nor
reasoned, it was merely a snide insult. Please keep the conversation
civil. If you disagree with my reason, tell my why it is wrong.

(Please don't CC me, I am subscribed.)

...Marvin

[Marvin Renich]

Sorry for the late reply. I was on vacation and then catching up on
other matters. I am trimming substantially less than I would otherwise
to give better context to a two-week-old thread.

(Please do not CC me, I am subscribed.)

* Robert Melton <rme...@gmail.com> [150404 22:40]:

> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Marvin Renich <mr...@renich.org> wrote:
>
> > What is disturbing is not that a different language was used on the
> > list, but that a substantial conversation continued for a period of
> > almost 8 hours without anyone offering to translate or suggesting to the
> > OP to use golang-ru instead.
> >
>
> First of all, translating stuff yourself isn't terribly challenging these
> days -- I was mildly interested so I translated the posts for myself (took
> seconds): https://translate.google.com/

This doesn't scale well and violates the netiquette rule "Respect
other people's time and bandwith" [1]. If a large number of subscribers
need to individually translate the message, the amount of time spent
translating is huge, compared to having the message translated before
sending it to the list.

> -- and "oh my gosh!" we didn't
> answer a question for an entire 8 hours, that is nearly an entire working
> day! You must be absolutely furious about posts that have lingered for
> days (or permanently) without reply. Since we are all paid for this, just
> put in a formal complaint with our "mailing list supervisor", and (s)he
> will come down on us like a ton of bricks (probably dock our pay too) and I
> am certain we will learn our lesson.

This is completely irrelevant to my objections and is rather rude in
tone. Please keep the discussion civil.

> > The purpose of a mailing list is to allow all subscribers to learn from,
> > and if desired participate in, the discussions taking place. When a
> > discussion takes place in a language that cannot be understood by many
> > of the subscribers, it defeats the purpose of the list. This is simply
> > rude (poor netiquette).
>
> *sigh* the post was trivial and obviously not some profound conversation,
> and you could (as I did) translate it yourself in seconds. It did no harm
> to the list, we aren't falling apart at the seams. If it became an issue,
> the moderators are capable adults, I am certain that could find their way
> to a solution. Mountains out of molehills and all that... seems like
> nothing more than a little light hearted fun and an excuse to use a
> translation service.

The content of the messages is irrelevant. This is a high-volume
mailing list, and making it more difficult for a large number of
subscribers to determine whether or not the message has material from
which they would like to learn is the relevant point. In fact, having
to translate a message just to determine that it is trivial is much
worse than having to translate a message and finding out that it
contained a piece of information you had been looking for.

> > The proper response, in my opinion, would have been for a list member to
> > direct the OP to the golang-ru list
>
> Which happened, in under 8 hours -- I think that is fairly impressive!
>
> > ... and to give an English synopsis of
> > the message and response. If the original question can be answered
> > easily, answering it is certainly appropriate, but in both the original
> > language and English, so the entire list can benefit.
>
> ... since you won't translate it yourself it seems like, I guess you will
> have to trust me when I say you didn't miss anything profound or
> illuminating (or I am tricking you, and you missed the most mind-blowing
> thing in Go history!)

...Marvin

[1] http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html

[atd...@gmail.com]

Давай! Why so serious ;)

[Joubin Houshyar]

حرف حساب میزنه, well 

(& no, that does not mean "word count increased" ..;)

[Benjamin Measures]

> I was not rude, and I gave a specific reason why I believed it was inappropriate to have a conversation in a different language on the mailing list. My criticism was constructive and based on long-established netiquette.

http://www.albion.com/netiquette/rule1.html
Rule 1: Remember the human
Would you say it to the person's face?

A stranger walks into a bar and asks a question in Russian. Some people give one word answers. Eight minutes later somebody tells the stranger where there's a Russian bar nearby.
Yet somebody else speaks out to chastise those who welcomed the stranger for not sending them away sooner, adamant it was disturbing his drink.
Comes back two days later with a soapbox on why everyone else was being rude.

Of the stranger, the greeting, or the preaching- which is the more discourteous?

[Marvin Renich]

* Benjamin Measures <saint....@gmail.com> [150420 18:24]:

> http://www.albion.com/netiquette/rule1.html
> Rule 1: Remember the human
> Would you say it to the person's face?
>
> A stranger walks into a bar and asks a question in Russian. Some
> people give one word answers. Eight minutes later somebody tells the
> stranger where there's a Russian bar nearby.
> Yet somebody else speaks out to chastise those who welcomed the
> stranger for not sending them away sooner, adamant it was disturbing
> his drink.
> Comes back two days later with a soapbox on why everyone else was
> being rude.
>
> Of the stranger, the greeting, or the preaching- which is the more
> discourteous?

Your analogy doesn't apply. In a bar, or in an AOL dating chat room, it
is quite acceptable to have private conversations in a public place. In
a technical mailing list, it is not.

...Marvin

[Dan Kortschak]

On Mon, 2015-04-20 at 19:33 -0400, Marvin Renich wrote:
> Your analogy doesn't apply. In a bar, or in an AOL dating chat room,
> it is quite acceptable to have private conversations in a public
> place. In a technical mailing list, it is not.
>

The semiotic implications of that comment run to libraries of deep
philosophical discussion.

e.g. Was the previous sentence a private conversation? Possibly.

[Piers]

Who gets to say this bar's language is English? 

It's not mandated in anything I've seen. It's just historical (I mean milllenia-scale) accident that the majority of the conversations here take place in English (after a fashion in some cases!) If someone comes in and speak a different language, who cares? Who's harmed? Who's offended? 

Sometimes people come in and speak about garbage collection optimisation, or generics, or, I dunno, all kinds of stuff I don't understand despite it being in English. It's fine. It's about Go, that's the explicit mandate of this group. I'm straying off it with this message :(  

I feel you're asserting something (I read as: it's not acceptable to use languages other than English on a technical mailing list) that pretty much no-one else believes or cares about. 

[Uriel Fanelli]

Disturbing is the fact you didn't take the care of asking yourself which language was the spoken language in this list.

Which means, basically you give a shit of the community you are try to enter, their habits and their rules.

English is not the only language of the world, but still there is more people speaking english than russian. 

Does it rings a bell?

[Nigel Tao]

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Uriel Fanelli <uriel....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Disturbing is the fact you didn't take the care of asking yourself which
> language was the spoken language in this list.
> Which means, basically you give a shit of the community you are try to
> enter, their habits and their rules.

Please keep the discussion civil and constructive.

Personally, I'm willing to give the original poster the benefit of the
doubt, and that it was an innocent (and harmless) mistake.

[Ivan Gulaev]

i am sorry. I did not think that the issue of the Russian cause such resonance. My English is bad. Two paths or improve their English or to communicate with the Russian programmers. Support initiatives in my programming and ingliyskom. I would be very grateful.
четверг, 2 апреля 2015 г., 17:32:43 UTC+5 пользователь Ivan Gulaev написал:

[Ivan Gulaev]