Re: Swiss govt agency declares Linux/OSS crapware "not a sufficientalternative to Microsoft products"
Alexander Terekhov
BTW, Regarding
"Report information on the term "intellectual property"... "
Here's some information:
https://www.ige.ch/en/institute/institute.html
"The Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual Property has its
headquarters in Bern. It is the federal agency for matters concerning
intellectual property in Switzerland. It was founded in 1888. It
received its present status as an organization incorporated under public
law on January 1, 1996."
Details:
https://www.ige.ch/institut/einstein.html
https://www.ige.ch/institut/einstein/haeufige-fragen.html
https://www.ige.ch/en/institute/einstein/frequently-asked-questions.html
"When was the IGE established and under which names has it existed?
The IGE was established November, 15 1888. Its official names have been:
1888 to 1979 � Federal Office for Intellectual Property
1979 to 1996 � Federal Intellectual Property Agency
and, as of January 1, 1996 � Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual
Property (statutory federal institute with independent legal status)"
regards,
alexander.
--
http://gng.z505.com/index.htm
(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Alan Mackenzie
> (crossposting to GNU land)
> Details:
> https://www.ige.ch/institut/einstein.html
> https://www.ige.ch/institut/einstein/haeufige-fragen.html
> https://www.ige.ch/en/institute/einstein/frequently-asked-questions.html
> "When was the IGE established and under which names has it existed?
> The IGE was established November, 15 1888. Its official names have been:
> 1888 to 1979 ? Federal Office for Intellectual Property
> 1979 to 1996 ? Federal Intellectual Property Agency
Sorry, pal, but that's untrue. (Or as Rjack would put it, "you're
lying".) No way would the name of a Swiss institute be in English.
Enough of the regulars here understand German to state the real name. At
a guess, "IGE" stands for "Institut fuer geistliches Eigentum", or
something like that.
Whilst "Eigentum" is usually translated into the English "property", it's
meaning in German is wider: literally "self stuff". The English word
denotes only physical, substantial things, despite the efforts of
copyright advocates to pervert this meaning.
"Geistlich" means literally "religious" or "spiritual", and in fact is
cognate to "ghostly". Translating it into "intellectual" is taking
liberties indeed.
A more accurate translation would be "ghostly property" rather than
"intellectual property", the word "ghostly" referring to the
non-material, non-substantial, ephemeral, not-really-existing nature of
that self stuff.
As you ought to realise, being a German fluent in English, you can't just
do word for word translations and expect the result to be unsilly.
> regards,
> alexander.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
David Kastrup
> Whilst "Eigentum" is usually translated into the English "property",
> it's meaning in German is wider: literally "self stuff".
Uh no. "Eigen" is not "self". It is sort of "belonging", "inherent",
"characteristic". Mathematicians know "Eigenvalues" which are
characteristic traits of projections.
> "Geistlich" means literally "religious" or "spiritual",
But "geistig" is not "geistlich".
> and in fact is cognate to "ghostly".
Not really.
> Translating it into "intellectual" is taking liberties indeed.
Not really. "geistig" is pretty much "mental". The
K�rper/Geist-dichotomy is "body/mind". "intellectual" is only slightly
off for "geistig", whereas "ghostly" is complete bull.
--
David Kastrup
Alexander Terekhov
Alan Oh Paragon of Guh-N� Linguistics Mackenzie wrote:
[... amusing nonsense ...]
Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in English
you silly.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geistiges_Eigentum
"Unter Geistigem Eigentum (auch intellektuelles Eigentum, engl.
intellectual property) werden absolute Rechte an immateriellen G�tern
verstanden. Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialg�terrecht
bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder eines
Patents oder der Sch�pfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. "
http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Geistiges
http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Eigentum
http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Geistiges+Eigentum
Try also
http://www.vocabulix.com/translation/german-english/geistiges-eigentum.html
and go to doctor, Alan.
Alan Mackenzie
> Alan Oh Paragon of Guh-N? Linguistics Mackenzie wrote:
> [... amusing nonsense ...]
> Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in English
> you silly.
What an amazing assertion! Do you have any evidence to back that up?
"Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning.
Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious", or perhaps "mental".
As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geistiges_Eigentum
> "Unter Geistigem Eigentum (auch intellektuelles Eigentum, engl.
> intellectual property) werden absolute Rechte an immateriellen G?tern
> verstanden.
Yes. "Immateriellen Guetern" = "ghostly goods" or "immaterial goods" or
"goods lacking any substance". It cannot be "intellectual property".
> Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialgueterrecht
> bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder eines
> Patents oder der Schoepfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. "
Seems likely. But there's no "property" anywhere in all that. There's
copyright, which is an abstract right, not anything of any material
substance.
David Kastrup
> In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
>
>> Alan Oh Paragon of Guh-N? Linguistics Mackenzie wrote:
>
>> [... amusing nonsense ...]
>
>> Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in English
>> you silly.
>
> What an amazing assertion!
Not really. Alexander certainly has lots of resources for talking
nonsense, but in this particular case of word meaning, it is you who is
barking up the wrong tree.
> Do you have any evidence to back that up?
Word meanings are not decided by evidence but consensus.
> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning.
> Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious",
Still wrong. You are confusing this with "geistlich" which indeed means
"spiritual/religious".
> or perhaps "mental". As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
No. "ghostly" would be "geisterhaft".
--
David Kastrup
Alan Mackenzie
In gnu.misc.discuss David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
> Alan Mackenzie <a...@muc.de> writes:
>> In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
>>> Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in
>>> English you silly.
>> What an amazing assertion!
> Not really. Alexander certainly has lots of resources for talking
> nonsense, but in this particular case of word meaning, it is you who is
> barking up the wrong tree.
Possibly, but the jist of this thread was Terekhov's attempt to show RMS
ridiculous in his criticism of the term "intellectual property" by
alleging that the Swiss use the term "intellectual property". The Swiss
do no such thing, as I have shown (I hope).
>> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning.
>> Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious",
> Still wrong. You are confusing this with "geistlich" which indeed means
> "spiritual/religious".
Sorry about that! My E/D dictionary lists "spiritual" as the first
translation of "geistig", "intellectual/mental" only secondly.
It's easy to confuse "intellectual property" with religion. But if
"geistiges Eigentum" translates into "intellectual property", then
"geistige Krankheit" must be "intellectual illness", which I suppose
describes the current state of this mailing list quite well.
"Intellectual" in English denotes an advanced working of the brain,
whereas "geistig" in German doesn't necessarily. So enhancing Emacs is
certainly intellectual, whereas the conversation on this mailing list
isn't, though it might well be described as "mental".
>> or perhaps "mental". As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
> No. "ghostly" would be "geisterhaft".
Ah! Thank you for the new word!
Alexander Terekhov
Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>
> In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
>
> > Alan Oh Paragon of Guh-N? Linguistics Mackenzie wrote:
>
> > [... amusing nonsense ...]
>
> > Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in English
> > you silly.
>
> What an amazing assertion! Do you have any evidence to back that up?
I've already provided the "evidence" silly.
Try also
http://www.ip.mpg.de/ww/de/pub/aktuelles.cfm
(Max-Planck-Institut f�r Geistiges Eigentum, Wettbewerbs- und
Steuerrecht)
and click on "English".
You'll get
http://www.ip.mpg.de/ww/en/pub/news.cfm
(Max Planck Institute for Intellectual Property, Competition and Tax
Law)
Geistiges Eigentum <==> Intellectual Property
Got it?
>
> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning.
> Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious", or perhaps "mental".
> As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
>
> > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geistiges_Eigentum
>
> > "Unter Geistigem Eigentum (auch intellektuelles Eigentum, engl.
> > intellectual property) werden absolute Rechte an immateriellen G?tern
> > verstanden.
>
> Yes. "Immateriellen Guetern" = "ghostly goods" or "immaterial goods" or
> "goods lacking any substance". It cannot be "intellectual property".
Intellectual property is a form of intangible property you idiot.
Stocks and bonds are other forms of intangible property.
>
> > Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialgueterrecht
> > bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder eines
> > Patents oder der Schoepfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. "
>
> Seems likely. But there's no "property" anywhere in all that. There's
> copyright, which is an abstract right, not anything of any material
> substance.
All the euros on your bank account is your intangible property silly.
No?
Go to doctor Alan.
Alexander Terekhov
Alan Mackenzie wrote:
[...]
> Possibly, but the jist of this thread was Terekhov's attempt to show RMS
> ridiculous in his criticism of the term "intellectual property" by
> alleging that the Swiss use the term "intellectual property". The Swiss
> do no such thing, as I have shown (I hope).
Uh retard Alan.
Go to
and click on "En"...
You'll get
"Welcome to the Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual Property"
Now click on "Fr"...
And you'll get
"Bienvenue sur le site de l'Institut F�d�ral de la Propri�t�
Intellectuelle"
Finally click on "It"...
And you'll get
"Benvenuti nel sito dell'Istituto Federale della Propriet�
Intellettuale"
now would you please
Aller chez le m�decin
silly Alan.
Alan Mackenzie
> Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
>> > Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in
>> > English you silly.
>> What an amazing assertion! Do you have any evidence to back that up?
> I've already provided the "evidence" silly.
Yes, as you frequently do, but I was thinking more about evidence
sensible.
>> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary
>> meaning. Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious", or
>> perhaps "mental". As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
>> > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geistiges_Eigentum
>> > "Unter Geistigem Eigentum (auch intellektuelles Eigentum, engl.
>> > intellectual property) werden absolute Rechte an immateriellen
>> > Guetern verstanden.
>> Yes. "Immateriellen Guetern" = "ghostly goods" or "immaterial goods" or
>> "goods lacking any substance". It cannot be "intellectual property".
> Intellectual property is a form of intangible property you idiot.
Don't be imbecillic - intangible stuff isn't property.
> Stocks and bonds are other forms of intangible property.
No. Stocks and bonds are tangible - they're things which have a definite
, if varying, value and can be readily exchanged for that value in
money.
>> > Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialgueterrecht
>> > bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder
>> > eines Patents oder der Schoepfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. "
>> Seems likely. But there's no "property" anywhere in all that. There's
>> copyright, which is an abstract right, not anything of any material
>> substance.
> All the euros on your bank account is your intangible property silly.
> No?
No. "in", not "on", and "are", not "is". All the euros in my bank
account are a number of metal disks 2.3 cm in diameter, if an
inconveniently large number, all perfectly tangible.
David Kastrup
Then you would be paying storage fees rather than getting interest.
Tangible property is what you place into a personal safety box. The
numbers on your account are not tangible, merely directly convertible to
tangible property.
People putting their savings into the Icelandic state bank had a bit of
a problem when too many tried the conversion at once. The bank ran out
of sufficient access to tangible property.
--
David Kastrup
Alexander Terekhov
Alan Mackenzie wrote:
[...]
> > Intellectual property is a form of intangible property you idiot.
>
> Don't be imbecillic - intangible stuff isn't property.
Go send a patch to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intangible_property
and alike references such as
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=110440,00.html
"Intangibles"
you idiot.
>
> No. Stocks and bonds are tangible - they're things which have a definite
http://www.allbusiness.com/services/legal-services/4084323-1.html
(Repeal of tax on intangibles makes Florida appealing choice)
"On July 27, Governor Jeb Bush signed into law a bill that repeals the
state's annual intangible personal property tax. ... And now, there is
no intangible personal property tax!
Prior to passage of the new measure, Florida imposed a tax on residents
for the value of their intangible assets, including stocks, bonds,
mutual funds, options, notes receivable, interests in LLCs, stock in
corporations and other similar assets."
[...]
> No. "in", not "on", and "are", not "is". All the euros in my bank
> account are a number of metal disks 2.3 cm in diameter, if an
> inconveniently large number, all perfectly tangible.
In the modern world tangible paper bills and metal coins represent
intangible money you retard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money#Fiat_money
Hth.